U.S. Supreme Court's Sotomayor lets Yeshiva University bar LGBT student club

[Shrek]

Source: Reuters

Sept 9 (Reuters) - U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor on Friday permitted Yeshiva University to refuse to recognize an LGBT student club that the Jewish school in New York City has said violates its religious values, temporarily blocking a judge's ruling ordering it to allow the group.

Sotomayor put on hold the judge's ruling that a city anti-discrimination law required Yeshiva University to recognize Y.U. Pride Alliance as a student club while the school pursues an appeal in a lower court. The liberal justice handles certain cases for the court from a group of states including New York. A stay Sotomayor issued of the judge's injunction will remain in place pending a further order of the Supreme Court.

Y.U. Pride Alliance formed unofficially as a group in 2018 but Yeshiva University determined that granting it official status would be "inconsistent with the school's Torah values and the religious environment it seeks to maintain."

The dispute hinges in part on whether Yeshiva University is a "religious corporation" and therefore exempt from the New York City Human Rights Law, which bans discrimination by a place or provider of public accommodation.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-courts-sotomayor-lets-yeshiva-university-prohibit-lgbt-student-club-2022-09-09/

[sakabatou]

1. Ugh...

[onecaliberal]

2. What the fuck?

[BlueJac]

3. Disgraceful!

[ancianita]

4. WHA...??

"Yeshiva University is a "religious corporation" and therefore exempt" from observing the individual constitutional rights of LGBTQ members' rights of assembly?

Corporate +1
Religion +1
Human constitutional rights 0

[Aristus]

5. All this time, I thought a close study of the Talmud revealed everyone's essential humanity,

and the value of that. I guess not.

[milestogo]

23. Unless you're female.

[NullTuples]

50. One might also think that the Christian Bible taught love, compassion and above all kindness

Nearly every religion has its conservative side, too.

[msongs]

6. so Yeshiva can ban Latina clubs too? nt

[FBaggins]

13. Not unless Judaism has something to say about Latinas

But recent SCOTUS rulings make it pretty clear she didn’t have a choice

[zentrum]

7. Shame on Sotomayor. Shocking.

[LenaBaby61]

49. I'm really not feeling her lately, and to be honest before then I was not a huge fan.

IS she okay or what?

Treasonous Thomas, along with his evil, racist wife Brunhilde, tried their best (and still want to) destroy this country and all of it's intuitions. Is something wrong with her?


Sotomayor praises Clarence Thomas: ‘He is a man who cares deeply about the court as an institution’

Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor spoke highly of colleague Justice Clarence Thomas during an event on Thursday, saying, “He is a man who cares deeply about the court as an institution.”

Sotomayor, who is liberal, acknowledged during remarks at the American Constitution Society that while she often disagrees with the conservative justice, she believes that “we share a common understanding about people and kindness towards them”

“Justice Thomas is the one justice in the building that literally knows every employee’s name, every one of them. And not only does he know their names, he remembers their families’ names and histories,” she said.

“He’s the first one who will go up to someone when you’re walking with him and say, ‘Is your son okay? How’s your daughter doing in college?’ He’s the first one that, when my stepfather died, sent me flowers in Florida,” she added.

Sotomayor’s remarks come as some Democrats have urged Thomas to recuse himself from Jan. 6, 2021-related cases amid revelations that his wife, Ginni Thomas, had reportedly communicated with then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows in an effort to have the results of the 2020 presidential election overturned.

https://thehill.com/regulation/3526826-sotomayor-praises-clarence-thomas-he-is-a-man-who-cares-deeply-about-the-court-as-an-institution/

[NullTuples]

51. That quote is says much about Thomas

“Justice Thomas is the one justice in the building that literally knows every employee’s name, every one of them. And not only does he know their names, he remembers their families’ names and histories,” she said.

I've personally known con artists who were that way. And highly touted sales people. And even a CEO or two.

Schmoozing is their line of work.

[Farmer-Rick]

52. Yeah, he knows them alright

Especially the pretty younger women. He knows them well enough to ask them about pubic hairs on their coke cans and their favorite porn stars. Heard Clarance was still making sexual comments to the young women.

Bunch of manipulative con artists.

In this day and age religious fakery is allowed to discriminate against a person because of their sex or orientation because......god? What a con.

[zentrum]

54. Thanks for this info.

Troubling.

[Turbineguy]

8. LGBT is biology, not religion or philosophy

[bringthePaine]

9. so sick of this discriminatory shit, Yeshiva is a damn disgrace

[Eugene]

10. Per CNN...

The case is complicated by threshold issues -- such as the fact that New York State appeals courts have yet to rule on the merits of the dispute -- which could be slowing down the court's considerations.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/09/politics/yeshiva-university-supreme-court-sotomayor/index.html

[Initech]

11. WTF??? That's some bullshit!

[NowThis2018]

12. Private education capitalism rules

Q: Are these institutions using public funds?
Q: if so, are they abiding by fed, state, and local regs?
Q: do any of the above violate US Constitution rights?
Larger Q: how will this impact higher learning?

Lots to consider, Also consider how FL govt intrusion into k-highschool will impact an individual should they wish to go to a higher institution. (If the basics are lacking they will fail to pass the muster...)

If the for profit religious and private schools are lacking in educational requirements then that will weaken US potentially....

Lots to consider... Imo public monies should never ever go to private, especially if religious organizations are asking...

[Warpy]

14. I wouldn't expect a RCC seminary to have an official LGBT club, either.

I don't agree with their closely held "religious values," I think they're dead wrong, but religion has the right to preach any crap it wants to, it just doesn't have the right to push it into civil law.

[mopinko]

16. and it's just a stay. status quo.

[stopdiggin]

27. thanks. perspective.

There's things that go on in the world that we don't like, don't agree with, don't understand or condone. That doesn't always conflate with illegal (or even necessarily wrong)

Also doesn't at all say that we have to support thinking, ideas and concepts that we disagree with. First off - we should be redoubling our efforts to ensure that religious institutions (any religious institution) doesn't get a dimes worth of federal or state support. Vouchers, grants, research dollars, subsidized loans, tax exemptions ... Whole enchilada.

(And, yes - much easier said than done. But it becomes increasingly apparent that it involves a tremendously important democratic concept.)

[JohnSJ]

34. Well said.

[canetoad]

57. How are your knees Warpy?

They're not jerking.

Thanks for the sensible post.

[J_William_Ryan]

15. Any hostility toward Justice Sotomayor is unwarranted.

Her order is perfectly appropriate and consistent with judicial proceedings and neither condones nor endorses the University’s position.

[elleng]

18. Thank you.

[chowder66]

19. +1

[Lulu KC]

20. +1 n/t

[DarthDem]

21. Exactly

The knee-jerk reactions to matters like this are understandable because of the underlying merits of the positions involved. However, sometimes a little consideration for the intricacies of the process is warranted.

[867-5309.]

25. Can you expand on that a bit?

Doesn't her order indicate she thinks there may be merit to the university's opinion and she's opening the door for the SCOTUS to take the case?

[stopdiggin]

29. more likely, it means that the university's

position is seen as quite likely to prevail - in accordance with current court rulings and opinion. And in that ... Pretty hard to argue.

Not necessarily her opinion - but, rather that of the entire court. And I think you said pretty much the same thing.

[867-5309.]

30. I thought she was expected to use her own judgement

as opposed what she thinks the SCOTUS as a whole would rule. But I don't know for sure, looking to get educated.

[stopdiggin]

32. no. (or at least I don't think so)

If an issue is likely to prevail before the full court - I think that is what she is suppose to do (in this place). Her opinion (judgement) comes into play if/when the court takes up the case.

[onenote]

33. Yep. One of the considerations she is required to weigh is whether four justices would grant cert.

Which is pretty likely in this case.

[FBaggins]

31. The point that many here are missing is that it doesn't indicate anything about what she thinks

Circuit assignments really don't put the justices in solo appellate roles. They just allow for emergency appeals to be acted on quicker.

On any request where there is a real doubt on how it should be handled, the justice assigned to that circuit gets the other eight on the line for the real decision.

IOW - she has no ability to significantly impact the case if the six conservatives won't allow her. The appeal is to SCOTUS, it is merely "received" by the assigned justice.

This is why the normal format for things like this reads: "the stay request presented to Justice O'Connor and referred by her to the
Court"

[oldsoftie]

38. Not so much what SHE thinks, but what she thinks the LAW & Constitution supports.

big difference

[FBaggins]

40. Not even that

It’s what she thinks (more likely knows) the rest of the court would do.

[BradAllison]

26. It's more fun to scream WTF though.

[oldsoftie]

39. LOLOLOL

[onetexan]

45. K&R!!

[elleng]

17. TEMPORARILY!

MUST be emphasized.

I recognize that 'procedural' matters confuse many; it's time for many to recognize the important distinctions.

'temporarily blocking a judge's ruling ordering it to allow the group.

'Sotomayor put on hold the judge's ruling that a city anti-discrimination law required Yeshiva University to recognize Y.U. Pride Alliance as a student club while the school pursues an appeal in a lower court. The liberal justice handles certain cases for the court from a group of states including New York. A stay Sotomayor issued of the judge's injunction will remain in place pending a further order of the Supreme Court.'

[Hekate]

22. Yeshiva University is specifically (1) religious, not secular, and (2) private, not public. ...

As such, they have the right to whatever arcane rules they choose. They get to work this out among themselves.

Justice Sotomayor is right.

[Slammer]

35. religious universities are strange animals

I attended a religious university, long ago.

They didn't even allow fraternities and sororities to exist. Any organizations which they did allow to exist had to conform to their religion's beliefs. Period.

You were expelled immediately if you had possession of an alcoholic beverage or if you were observed drinking (whether off campus or on campus). (Not like 'Liberty' University where apparently you could get away with anything if you knew someone, these folks were dead serious about their standards.)

Expelled if you were caught having sex. Expelled if you became pregnant outside of wedlock.

A couple of years after I graduated, my favorite professor was forced to leave the university (after being on track to take over his division of the school). The reason? His wife left him and they didn't allow divorced people to be faculty members.

To the best of my knowledge, they still have those exact same standards (though I admit to not following it very closely).

They've got around 5000 students who pay premium prices to go there and put themselves through it. But it has rigorous academic standards so people who are willing to put up with it get a good education.

I wasn't part of their religion but I was a local. I saved money living at home and tried to help keep our family business going as I was attending school.

The only thing that really irked me was having to pay for and take a religion class every semester. Not any old religion but a Bible class taught from the perspective of their religion. I came through with enough hours that if I'd cared to pay little bit more that I could have had a minor in Religious Studies to go with my degree. (They let you buy a three hour religion class per semester for the price of a two hour class just to try to drill religious knowledge into your brain. But if you wanted the minor, you could backpay the extra hours that you'd taken so that those classes would count for a degree plan.)

[oldsoftie]

37. And looks like you turned out just fine.

I wish more students thought the way YOU did at the time; make the best choice without blowing a ton of money. Not just by picking a "religious" school, but not dumping tens of thousands into some "prestigious" school that wont necessarily give you a "better" education than a far less expensive option.

[Hekate]

53. I understand. I also see that you get it about their right to their viewpoint...

The knee-jerk reactions here are sometimes too tedious for words. I generally chalk it up to decades of Evangelicals very loudly blurring the lines between Church and State, especially in education, until an awful lot of people are very confused about where one begins and the other leaves off.

It’s just that here at DU, one would expect us all to know better. The whole point of public education is to embrace and educate the whole of society; while the whole point of private education is for private citizens to pay out of pocket for the privilege of accepting or rejecting whoever they please based on whatever they please and to teach whatever they please.

As far as I am concerned, Yeshiva University is well within its rights to not sanction an LGBTQ club on campus — and its students are well within their rights as US citizens to object, and also to hold their meetings off campus.

If this was some State college, the youngsters would be on very solid ground in demanding an LGBTQ club be recognized by the administration, and to get on-campus space for their activities, same as any other special interest group or club.

[sarcasmo]

28. This country is going backwards, what a mess.

[oldsoftie]

36. Sometimes THE LAW gives us decisions we don't like. Thats tough, but the way it works

If only the trump people understood that
Everyone here knows Sotomayor isn't some right winger. She made the decision based on the law & Constitution. Its a RELIGIOUS school. they have rules a lot of us don't like. You don't like the rules, there's 1000 other schools you can go to.

[Demsrule86]

42. Sorry, I don't buy it...she is a religious person but this should be based on civil rights period.

[oldsoftie]

48. But you can't force a private religious school to do things they claim violates their religion.

Its not a publicly licensed taxi company or anything like that.
Its just like evidence being inadmissible because it was illegally obtained. We don't like it, but thats the law.

[sl8]

46. This a stay, not a decision.

She might very well decide against the school if the appeal makes to SCOTUS.

[oldsoftie]

47. I think its highly likely the school prevails if it does.

[madville]

41. They are likely to be exempt from that specific law

A private religious school that isn’t government funded, don’t see how they can be forced to officially acknowledge a student organization that goes against their established religious doctrine.

[Demsrule86]

43. I bet they take some money.

[cab67]

44. Do you really want the liberal justices to behave like Federalist Society knobs?

Six of the current Supreme Court justices make legal shit up to enforce their personal beliefs. They're not following "originalism" - they're doing whatever they want.

This is unacceptable.

What Yeshiva University is doing may be abhorrent, but every legal precedent in existence supports its decision. It's a private, religious institution. Colleges founded by evangelical Christian churches would be likewise able - legally, though not in my eyes morally - to make similar decisions.

Justice Sotomayor is doing her job. I don't like the decision, but it's the decision she was obliged to make given existing law.

[Novara]

55. A lot of the anger here is misdirected

Sotomayor is following the law. The law says that a religious institution CAN discriminate. You should be angry at the school and at the fact that our laws allow this sort of discrimination in the guise of some fucking bullshit "religious" belief.

In fact, Sotomayor may have been doing a good thing by heading off the inevitable case getting to the full court where, I have no doubt, that sort of discrimination would not only be blessed for this school, but they'd likely go farther and enshrine discrimination for anyone who feels like it if they just say so. Let's hope this will be enough to head off the case getting to this SCOTUS.

[Polybius]

56. Sotomayor is the Court's most reliable liberal

A Supreme Court Justice has to decide what's constitutional and what isn't, even if they personally disagree. I trust her on this.

[onenote]

58. This is why people shouldn't jump to conclusions

Sotomayor granted the stay to give the full court a chance to consider the motion. When they did, she voted AGAINST staying the order.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/14/politics/supreme-court-yeshiva-university-lgbtq-student-club/index.html