20 cars of Norfolk Southern cargo train derail in Ohio
Source: AP
SPRINGFIELD, Ohio (AP) About 20 cars of a Norfolk Southern cargo train derailed near Springfield Saturday evening, the second derailment of the companys trains in Ohio in a month, officials said. But unlike the Feb. 3 derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, a company spokesperson said there were no hazardous materials aboard the train, The Columbus Dispatch reported.
The train, which did not have passengers, derailed around 5 p.m. Saturday by State Route 41, near the Clark County Fairgrounds, the Dispatch reported. Springfield is about 46 miles (74 km) west of the state capital of Columbus, Ohio. The 20 cars of the 212-car train derailed while traveling south, the Norfolk Southern spokesperson said.
Shawn Heaton told the Springfield News-Sun that he was waiting at the intersection as the train crossed the intersection and captured the start of the derailment on video.
I was right there and I was playing on my phone and then I heard a loud bang. And when I heard the loud bang, I started recording, Heaton said. When I heard the bang, there was all kinds of debris and metal shoot out from under the cars and thats when I started recording and you could see them start jumping off the tracks.
Read more: https://apnews.com/article/norfolk-southern-springfield-ohio-train-derailment-7cd3b526a7c78ed17ad4bce0699720af
Puppyjive
(501 posts)These trains are too long. A conductor has to walk a train when it goes into emergency to inspect the train and find the issue. Meanwhile, every crossing is blocked. Crossings are not suppose to be blocked for more than 10 minutes. The FRA needs to put the hammer down.
BumRushDaShow
(128,846 posts)but also the tracks.
FredGarvin
(477 posts)In my area trains are over 100 cars long without a single issue ever.
What are you trying to convey?
Doremus
(7,261 posts)I live in northern Ohio and long trains are certainly having issues here. Glad to hear you're not having any problems in yours.
If train companies want to skim more profits let them do it in ways that don 't endanger the general public. Making trains longer and cutting necessary workers isn't the way to do that.
Perhaps we should require that RR top management and board members live next to their "safe" tracks. That would be the quickest way to get them to fix them.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)So this train was twice as long as those in your area and probably that is typical of this particular freight line in Ohio. Which may be a part of the problem, excessive load on a system that is now looking like it's over stressed.
Some things I have been reading say that the current "best" type of rail configuration is in Japan that is used with high speed rail lines. Called SLAB Tracks. **
US switched from wood rail ties to concrete rail ties system, but they are still basically the same design, just tougher materials. Those upgrades are beginning to wear out and when hit with these longer, heavier freight trains it's bad enough that derailments are happening more often than tracks can be reinforced, repaired or updated.
SLAB Tracks are EXPENSIVE and in US mostly only used in RR tunnels.
SOLID SLAB Tracks are LESS subject to weather erosion as they aren't individual pieces surrounded by rain, snow etc, but large pieces designed to allow runoff and retain less water or snow that in turn lessens the chance of it breaking down the concrete.
** https://web.uniroma1.it/cdaingtrasporti/sites/default/files/Thesis_Orel_MTRR_14ott19.pdf
Abstract
Since the birth of modern railways, the desire for faster journeys has led to the emergence of the slab track railway system. Although the speed played a major role in the development of slab track, increased axle loads, and environmental concerns have also made slab track more popular today.
In this thesis, ballasted track and slab track systems are examined separately in terms of technical and economic aspects together with environmental impacts. Then, the two systems are compared and the advantages and disadvantages of each are discussed.
Finally, the Life Cycle Cost Analysis is developed for both systems to analyze their efficiency during their service lives. Results show that, slab track is not an attractive solution only at high speeds but also for high tonnages.
EDIT: Double negative = positive. Translated from Italian directly, but in essence..
Results show that slab track is NOT ONLY an attractive solution for high speed, but ALSO for high tonnages.
Puppyjive
(501 posts)They come thru our town and block the crossings for way too long. They have to block the crossings in order to change out crews. This did not happen when the trains were normal lengths. They got rid of the employees who inspected the cars, maintained the locomotives. It's not precision railroading, it's wreckless railroading.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)About safety and maintenance after last months accident.
Next month, well... Maybe the third time'll be the charm?
2naSalit
(86,536 posts)For NS. There was one in, I think Illinois, last week.
So this is two for Ohio and one for Illinois (?).
Meadowoak
(5,545 posts)2naSalit
(86,536 posts)I couldn't recall, I knew it was in the Lakes area. Could be Michigan instead of Illinois, whichever it was, this makes three in a month.
Meadowoak
(5,545 posts)Lonestarblue
(9,971 posts)pirsquared
(77 posts)Forgotten is the recipients who need their supplies but never got them. Companies ordering polyvinyl chloride needed it to make PVC pipe but did not get their mateerial. Their customers lost out.
Norfolk pays lots of $dollars for insurance. But that does not replace the material lost and not delivered.
Nonetheless, NS stock trades a $225/share. Their very smug CEO gets $45 million.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)It's a huge balancing act to keep all the safety structures going and even though upgrading to concrete rails showed a lot more resilience than wood rails with higher tonnages and more frequent travel but they are still subject to weathering. (And it's better for the environment to not use woods and let trees do their best job.)
STILL a better solution would be SLAB TRACKS but they are expensive. RR seems to be doing well, except they aren't even keeping up with rail repair. So a MAJOR UPGRADE across the nation seems out of the question at the moment.
In the '70's the highway system made TRUCKING became cost effective and that took a lot of business away from the RR.
The RR had troubles switching their business model and nearly went under in the '70's for a bit until somehow they balanced out a bit and worked with trucking to handle the HUGE loads going long distances which truckers would then pick up and take the rest of the way.
A lot of tracks that used to service big cities kinda got retired from lack of use and those that are still in use are taking a higher amount of the traffic, especially with Covid and so much more online ordering. Warehouses are stocking up their shelves to be able to supply that demand.
SO we have this perfect storm where what once was the ONLY way to get things moved across the nation quickly and efficiently got a lot of competition and it's in the position where it has to maintain its OWN infrastructure, unlike trucking companies that use national highways.
Having to maintain their OWN nationwide infrastructure is a huge cost that may no longer make trains in any way competitive again.
People don't travel as much by train for enjoyment or to work etc.... so their business model is again imbalanced and we might just lose the whole system because it's outdated and too expensive to upgrade fully.
Japan is doing it, but the amount of rail lines they have compared to the US and the fact they are using a lot of high speed rail that can compete with auto/truck travel times makes it a different challenge with more benefits.
Puppyjive
(501 posts)We need to invest in a much broader passenger train service. The federal interstate system was a huge investment with big returns. I think many could get on board with upgrading passenger service.
Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)
Artcatt This message was self-deleted by its author.
Artcatt
(344 posts)..alternatively, RR ownership is running a rickety operation designed to push expenses to zero while offloading the hazards of their poorly-run operation onto low-income, undereducated towns which their lines run through and which are regarded by the bidness doodz as expendable and unable to sue their tits off.
..or, you could go with door #1 and pin it on God.
twodogsbarking
(9,732 posts)samplegirl
(11,476 posts)is what he left in Ohio. He did absolutely nothing for Ohio all he did was brainwash people.
End result is this.
Justice matters.
(6,925 posts)lying propagandists for profits.
Traildogbob
(8,716 posts)Imagine if we did have super sonic railways for passengers in America under our non regulated shit hole third world country of GQP?
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)These railroads need to fix their equipment!
BumRushDaShow
(128,846 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Fking robber barons still making our lives a nightmare!
2naSalit
(86,536 posts)Tried that yet. Our work ethic, as a whole, isn't reliable enough.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,393 posts)Traildogbob
(8,716 posts)High speed rail like civilized countries have. Not quit super sonic, but really freakin fast. Loaded with commuters.
paleotn
(17,911 posts)But freight operators won't let us be a civilized country.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/us/politics/amtrak-expansion-freight.html?unlocked_article_code=UcSOzJ6dIG3E5Jvn4e-E0KApYiZW1wPoviyzvAyR6XNkgOpiSsl_rAHPZrsTItKzftjwN_UWhz8woeQCQRroBv8Bdp5tJjWE8y15UQoWVB1Gap26yzX8RADvKu4JlENO2fITw-KiQ0cgJMYWxadr9wreLPIaVtz9CP_R964kSR9wBBV3yzK-ZS82uYqm7VGEzGH8SvoIblPBNEfyxF1L7JlRsHTZvcWC4fMqmcfHsihKjN3mXkehdCsKIYwsf4hldFphW5iGAeoqfVPyrgCoXQ4LhyPHRItJ4hv3WzjOtCEHxWORo1AOdL8hC5_4cpoU34HesED_FjhfEoiNuR-70qtqdMEfzg&smid=url-share
Warpy
(111,245 posts)that goes at 130 KPH/80MPH. There's only about 100 miles of it in service, Albuquerque exurbs to Santa Fe, but both Texas and Colorado would like to see it extended. This state is dirt poor, so the Feds would have to step in for that.
It was a very ambitious project, it's in the southern Rockies.
Traildogbob
(8,716 posts)Does not use power grid system like regulations on a train like that.
Warpy
(111,245 posts)El Paso rejected the Texas electrical scam a long time ago.
Traildogbob
(8,716 posts)Not all Texas has been Abbottized.
mnhtnbb
(31,382 posts)our train was running 220 km/h.
I have a blurry shot
The US has been f*cked by capitalist a$$holes for the last 100+ years. When we lived in St. Joseph, MO (1988-94) we learned that at the turn of the century (1899-1900) there were 100 trains/day running through St. Joseph. The number of trains was reduced significantly when Kansas City developed itself to handle greater train traffic across the Missouri River. And then the horseless carriage took over and the development of rail passenger travel took a back seat to freight trains. BIG mistake for the country. Huge mistake. There were only very long freight trains--mostly Burlington Northern--running through St. Joseph when we lived there. My young sons used to love to go down to the river and watch/count the 100+ car trains go by.
FredGarvin
(477 posts)Too many hands in the pie
Warpy
(111,245 posts)that goes through farmland, not cities and suburbs. High speed rail elsewhere tops out at about 200KPH, which is certainly fast enough, cars on roads next to it look like they're standing still.
I'd get along fine with your kids. When I lived in NC, most of that time was spent near a rail yard. It was fun watching the switch engines build up the trains. I even got the ten cent tour of one of the engines when I was about 11 or so. It was one of the high points of otherwise dreary years in Dixie.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)GGoss
(1,273 posts)JHB
(37,158 posts)doc03
(35,325 posts)East Palistine the MSM suddenly discovers train wrecks. Not saying the one in East Palistine wasn't bad. Just
an observation of how the MSM operates. We can have a mass shooting every day that is ignored unless one
ends with a lot of dead bodies. Then all of a sudden they are reporting a shooting every day until a train wreck or something
else distracts them. They give us whatever news we want at any given time. it's all about the green.
Response to doc03 (Reply #26)
Post removed
Warpy
(111,245 posts)Since capitalism isn't doing the job, perhaps it's time for the feds to take over. Let the freight companies pay fees for using it.
That's the problem with capitalism, people forget what their primary business is and concentrate on how much money they can suck out of it instead of getting things done properly.
BumRushDaShow
(128,846 posts)That was tried in a quasi-fashion with Amtrak and to date, Congress has refused to even adequately fund that.
Warpy
(111,245 posts)thanks to Goodyear, GM, and the oil boys. Public transit? Make the ordinary slob pay for his own transit by buying a car, even on the princely $7.25 minimum wage still on the books in too many states.
Rail transport is the cheapest transport and the most energy efficient. There are other players besides ordinary people who want to keep it up and running, companies like Amazon, those same oil boys, ore haulers, and the like. I think they'd all get together to squeeze the money out of Congress. Even the Koch front organizations know rail freight lines are a national security issue.
BumRushDaShow
(128,846 posts)is that nowadays, "right of way" ( "eminent domain" ) to get new tracks laid in a better configuration, has been next to impossible. I.e., people today don't want it "in their backyards" and will fight it in the courts and in the media.
That is the irony of today compared to yesteryear like here in PA where your wealthiest citizens lived "near the train tracks" just outside the city - e.g., the "Main Line" in Delaware and Chester Counties, PA.
I grew up about a block from a public transit commuter train route. When the trees were bare I could actually see the trains go by from my bedroom window and definitely could hear them year round. I rode them to school and work for about 8 years (other times I was on buses or drove - in the case of work, after they kept cutting the train schedule down more and more, ensuring it would take me twice as long to go to/from work than driving).
There will need to be quite a bit of finessing to get the mess fixed.
Warpy
(111,245 posts)That's why they corkscrew around to hit every little town they can.
One of the best things about living in Boston was not needing a car. Mass transit did take a bit longer, since I had to go into the downtown area and then back out again to get to various jobs. However, I could read, knit, or just daydream the ride away and that part was great.
BumRushDaShow
(128,846 posts)the government (at least here in PA) bought and/or owned the lots of land. However as the expansion happened within urban areas, little to no concern was given to residents and neighborhoods - particularly in black communities - which were completely bisected and cut off. The tracks themselves eventually became the perfect delineation for what became "redlining" to generate purposeful segregation and prompted use of the term "living on the other side of the tracks".
By Emily Badger and Darla Cameron
July 16, 2015 at 7:29 a.m. EDT
Like many metaphors, "the other side of the tracks" was originally a literal epithet. Blacks were often historically restricted to neighborhoods separated from whites by railroads, turning the tracks into iron barriers of race and class. In many cities, these dividing lines persist to this day a reflection of decades of discriminatory policies and racism, but also of the power of infrastructure itself to segregate.
Look at racial maps of many American cities, and stark boundaries between neighboring black and white communities frequently denote an impassable railroad or highway, or a historically uncrossable avenue. Infrastructure has long played this role: reinforcing unspoken divides, walling off communities, containing their expansion, physically isolating them from schools or parks or neighbors nearby. Research, in fact, suggests that American cities that were subdivided by railroads in the 19th century into physically discrete neighborhoods became much more segregated decades later following the Great Migration of blacks out of the rural South.
(snip)
Segregation, in effect, has been built into the physical environment of many American cities, making it that much harder to undo. A century after many of those railroads were built, the pattern was repeated in a modern form: through the construction of even more imposing highways (many of which both destroyed and separated minority neighborhoods).
(snip)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/07/16/how-railroads-highways-and-other-man-made-lines-racially-divide-americas-cities/
Here in Philly, we had much more public transit in the past - between the buses and trolleys and subway and EL (that at one time had National Guard riding on them during a PTC strike because the "union" refused to have "negro workers" in 1944, prompting FDR to send troops here -
My mother was 14 at the time and would often mention her experience with that when riding the trolley.
Since the '60s and '70s, Nixon's "benign neglect" policy killed the transit systems while encouraging white flight to the suburbs where "the car was king". That was when the PRR and Reading Railroad eventually merged to become "Conrail", and was then taken over by SEPTA (which also had taken over PTC).
For public school, since there were no "yellow school buses" picking me and my sisters up at our front doors so we rode public transit (and after 3rd grade when I last was able to walk to school, I took public transit every year for the next 9 years and I was glad to be rid of it.
eggplant
(3,911 posts)Is this a crazy gerrymander or what?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Springfield,+OH/@39.9352674,-83.8312946,12.63z/data=!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x883f5a588a827c09:0x3e740c175881afbb!2sSpringfield,+OH!3b1!8m2!3d39.9242266!4d-83.8088171!16zL20vMHl0cGg!3m5!1s0x883f5a588a827c09:0x3e740c175881afbb!8m2!3d39.9242266!4d-83.8088171!16zL20vMHl0cGg
LiberalFighter
(50,888 posts)Kennah
(14,256 posts)A specific section of track was chosen and there was a fair bit of prep work done. Still an amazing accomplishment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_world_speed_record
Kennah
(14,256 posts)The investigative arm of the U.S. Congress is launching a probe into the safety of increasingly long freight trains being operated by CSX Corp CSX.O, Union Pacific Corp UNP.N and other major U.S. railroads to boost profitability, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) said.
Train length is currently unregulated. Any push to add rules would likely face stiff industry opposition because railroads use longer trains to boost margins through the better use of fuel, locomotive power, and rail cars without having to add extra crew.
In recent months, there have been accidents involving long trains which are currently under investigation by the NTSB and the FRA, Willis said.
*****************************************************************
"In recent months" 5 years ago.
BumRushDaShow
(128,846 posts)and especially to get some kind of sick leave provision. I think these recent incidents will bring a fresh perspective to the employees' obvious concerns.
These types of companies operate with the strategy to keep cutting until the system literally "breaks" and then take it back a notch and use that as normal operations.