Norfolk Southern to Add 200 Temperature Sensors After Ohio Train Derailment

[mahatmakanejeeves]

Last edited Mon Mar 6, 2023, 03:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: The Wall Street Journal.

BUSINESS

Norfolk Southern to Add 200 Temperature Sensors After Ohio Train Derailment

Railroad announces a slate of safety initiatives aimed at preventing accidents

By Costas Paris
https://twitter.com/CostasParis
[e-mail]
Updated March 6, 2023 9:45 am ET

Norfolk Southern Corp. said it plans to add about 200 temperature detectors along its tracks in the aftermath of a derailment of a train carrying hazardous chemicals in Ohio.

The railroad said it would add the hot-bearing sensors to parts of its track where existing sensors are at least 15 miles apart, starting with the track west of East Palestine, Ohio. It said it currently has about 1,000 temperature sensors that are on average 13.9 miles apart on its network.

{snip}

Read more: https://www.wsj.com/articles/norfolk-southern-to-add-200-temperature-sensors-after-ohio-derailment-bfb67404

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Norfolk Southern said it plans to add about 200 temperature detectors along its tracks in the aftermath of a derailment of a train carrying hazardous chemicals in Ohio

wsj.com
Norfolk Southern to Add 200 Temperature Sensors After Ohio Train Derailment
The railroad said it would deploy sensors on tracks where existing ones are at least 15 miles apart.

Link to tweet

[SheltieLover]

1. Is this all they are doing?

Seems inadequate, if so, from what I've read.

But I'm far from an expert in these matters.

Thx for sharing, Jeeves!

[elleng]

2. Over-heating was the problem, so this addresses that much,

now anyway.

[SheltieLover]

3. Thx, Ellen!

[IronLionZion]

4. Liberal regulations "kill jobs", conservative deregulation kills people

[EarthFirst]

5. Is this sufficient?

NS owns 19,500 miles of rail; is this enough to address the issue?

[progressoid]

12. No. eom.

[LiberalFighter]

6. Are they going to put any in the CEO's ass?

[mahatmakanejeeves]

7. Norfolk Southern rolls out new safety plan

Rail News Home >> Norfolk Southern Railway

3/6/2023
Rail News: Norfolk Southern Railway

Norfolk Southern rolls out new safety plan today announced a six-point plan to improve the safety of its operations based on the National Transportation Safety Board’s preliminary findings following the Feb. 3 train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio.

"Reading the NTSB report makes it clear that meaningful safety improvements require a comprehensive industry effort that brings together rail car and tank car manufacturers, rail-car owners and lessors and the railroad companies," said NS President and CEO Alan Shaw in a press release. "We are eager to help drive that effort and we are not waiting to take action."

The Class I announced its actions following another NS train derailment in Ohio, which occurred March 4 near Springfield. No hazardous materials leaked from derailed cars, unlike the Feb. 3 accident in East Palestine.

NS officials said the company will immediately begin the following steps:

{snip}.

[gladium et scutum]

8. A Meaningless Jesture

unless Supervisors take positive action when a sensor warns them of a hot journal bearing on a truck or locomotive. Action such as slow down or stop and inspect are positive. In the Ohio case, the supervisor told the train crew to proceed and ignore the warning.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

9. Cite, please.

In the Ohio case, the supervisor told the train crew to proceed and ignore the warning.

You are confusing the timeline of the East Palestine, Ohio, derailment with the timeline of another derailment.

Please read the NTSB preliminary report.

Here, I'll help you:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/RRD23MR005%20East%20Palestine%20OH%20Prelim.pdf

https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/2023-03/Safety%20Advisory%202023-01.pdf

This locked thread says what happened in East Palestine:

Thu Feb 23, 2023: NTSB Preliminary Report RRD23MR005 Norfolk Southern Railway Train Derailment

Thanks for writing.

[SWBTATTReg]

10. I'm surprised that they didn't have these sensors already. As a train nut, I'm well aware of these

sensors along the tracks, it's a common enough item, that was covered in some of the You Tube videos I've watched. Obviously, not all train carriers are the same, resulting in an unfortunate situation for those Ohio communities.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

11. They do, but they're spaced ten or fifteen or twenty miles apart.

The bearing that, according to the NTSB's preliminary report, overheated failed between defect detectors. The NTSB report said that the bearing had registered higher than ambient temperatures earlier, but the rise in temperature was not enough to cause alarm.

Not until the East Palestine detector did the bearing's temperature reach the point that the detector sent out a message. The engineer of the NS train didn't get the alert until immediately before the derailment. Had the defect detectors been more closely spaced, that might have made a difference.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/RRD23MR005%20East%20Palestine%20OH%20Prelim.pdf

You'll reach a point of diminishing returns. What next? Space them five miles apart? Three miles apart? How many is enough?

I live a mile from a CSX defect detector, and I get to listen to it all the time.

Thanks for writing.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

16. Please see post #14. Thanks.

Gotta go. There’s a train coming.

[The Jungle 1]

13. Ya knows I hab this thermometer thingey

Part of it hangs on a tree outside. The magic is how the temperature and humidity appear inside my house. Right through the walls. Magic I tell ya.

This is fing stupid. Every wheel should have a sensor and a computer keeping track of all the wheels.
Oh wait that would cost some money. What is the big deal just a few dead people. You can bet the CEOs families don't live near rail roads

[mahatmakanejeeves]

14. Let's do the math.

Last edited Mon Mar 6, 2023, 08:09 PM - Edit history (2)

The train was 149 cars long. There were three locomotives, two in front and one 70 cars back. Each car has four axles. Each locomotive has (I'm guessing) six axles. Three times six plus four times 149 is 18 plus 596 equals 614 axles. There are two bearings per axle, so there were 1,228 bearings to monitor.

Per an article in TWSJ., (I went to the library to read it), the car was picked up in Houston by a short line and delivered to a Class 1 railroad. Then it went up north, where it was eventually handed over to the NS.

You would have each bearing report to a computer. What's the frequency, Kenneth? Every railroad has its own group of radio frequencies, so the bearing sensor would have to be able to talk to each railroad's sensor monitor. Between Texas and its arrival at the NS, the car went through no fewer than 60 defect detectors, at each one giving no sign that it would be failing in a few days.

Oh, let's not forget that the car will be in a train going around curves and through tunnels and over bridges and going places when it's 100 degrees and going places when it's zero degrees and in the rain and in the snow.

What happens when trains going in different directions meet each other? How do you keep the bearing sensors on one train from reporting to the monitor on the other train?

It's one thing for you to get up and walk a few feet across the room in the comfort of your own home to look at the indoor display of your outdoor thermometer and hygrometer. It's another issue entirely to scale that up to a fleet of tens of thousands of cars and locomotives running from one end of the country to another, as well as through Canada and Mexico, in the conditions in which railroads operate.

How do you propose to do that?

Thanks for writing.

[The Jungle 1]

18. Yes let's do the math

Each rail car has two trucks. Four wheels per truck. Two bearings per wheel. One sensor per wheel. Eight sensors per car.
8x149=1,192. Modern Engines have eight wheels 3x8=24. Total sensors 1,216. We are close. The number of wheels per engine is the only difference.

You are telling me that no computer could be programmed to arrange this data, reference weather and track conditions then give warnings. You have very little faith in the engineering skill of America. Wheels on most autos have a proximity sensor that tells a computer the RPM of the individual wheel and can apply the breaks individually if a wheel RPM is two fast compared to the speed of the car. I am guessing it does this in microseconds. Silly computers. 1,216 data points is nothing! I bet this temperature could be monitored with infrared.

I worked in the Aerospace industry for 45 years. Trust me this can be done. I do not know if the best system would be radio frequency, Kennith. However most all our car doors open with a coded frequency button, Kennith. It is magic I tells ya. All those cars, millions of them. Perhaps that new fanged stuff called fiber optics could be used if coded frequency is not the engineers plan.

This I know and it was my main point. Corporate America will not attempt any safety systems unless the government forces it. Also, if it is cheaper to pay fines then corporate America will do that. They don't fing care about us.

My original comments were meant to be humorous yet serious. I do not come here for this kind of exchange.