2 Americans kidnapped in Mexico found dead, 2 found alive

[groundloop]

Source: ABC News

Two of the four Americans kidnapped in Mexico have been found dead, while the other two have been found alive, according to Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador.

The Mexican president said one of those found alive was injured.

The American citizens crossed into Matamoros, in the northeastern state of Tamaulipas just south of Brownsville, Texas, in a white minivan with North Carolina plates on Friday, according to the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City.

"Shortly after crossing into Mexico, unidentified gunmen shot the passengers of the vehicle," the embassy said. "The gunmen herded the four U.S. citizens into another vehicle and fled the scene with them."

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/International/2-americans-kidnapped-mexico-found-dead-2-found/story?id=97681554

[RussBLib]

1. I refuse to set foot in Mexico

...and I live only 10 miles from the border.

Been years now since we've been to Mexico.

[Martin68]

34. I've met a lot of people who are afraid to travel anywhere abroad. There are only a few countries

I would not travel to under any conditions: North Korea, Iran, Syria, Russia, or anyplace where a shooting war is taking place. Mexico is not on that list, and I am assuming this was a drug deal gone bad or a case of mistaken identity involving drug gangs. I grew up in countries with active terrorist activity and, like knowing where and at what time you should avoid certain places in many US cities, its is not hard to avoid problems if you know what you're doing. But if you are afraid to travel someplace, it's a good idea not to go there. Your fear alone will attract trouble.

[Warpy]

38. I haven't been for a long time

but that's more because I got old than anything else. I used to cross by foot at Juarez, stuck to the main drags, and never felt particularly unsafe. I didn't even mind driving there, it's like Boston, never make eye contact. It was just a pain in the ass to have a car to think about, so I parked on the US side and hoofed it across the bridge.

I suppose it's different now that meth cooking has moved south and the gangs are sampling the goods. Meth is a nasty, violent drug, especially in combination with alcoho, and tweakers tend to drink to take the edge off.

[brush]

70. Not a drug deal. They were there for cosmetic surgery...

for one of the women...a lot cheaper in Mexico.

Sad they didn't do their due diligence to find out what hot bed of violence that part of Mexico is.

[DemocraticPatriot]

74. I am way too old for "spring break"

so this is not an issue.

Hell, I have not been outside my home county in Michigan since the covid pandemic began--- even alone in my own car, which was a habit previous to that for unrelated reasons....

[EarthFirst]

2. "Traveling from South Carolina so one of them; a mother of six; could undergo a medical procedure..."

We need to do better…

[jimfields33]

3. Your right. We need to demand mexico clear up its cartel and drug problems.

This is unacceptable to have Americans getting killed like this. The Mexican government has a lot to answer for.

[Dan]

4. For sure,

Not like America’s a safe haven for visitors….

[jimfields33]

5. Well of course we should do the same. Some cities are working it.

Chicago and New York for example.

[EX500rider]

27. Mexico is ranked 9th in homicides, the US 60th worldwide

Mexico 28 per 100,000
USA 6 per 100,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[Dan]

40. Doesn't matter where the ranking is

If you’re one of the victims.

[EX500rider]

41. While true it doesn't change you're four times more likely to be murdered in Mexico

Last edited Wed Mar 8, 2023, 12:29 AM - Edit history (1)

[Blues Heron]

6. The point was we need to do better WITH OUR HEALTHCARE so we dont NEED to go to Mexico for it

[jimfields33]

7. Well overall true. But she was going for a tummy tuck.

That is cosmetic and not going to be cheaper in any way in the United States.

[brush]

71. Huh? It was reported that the reason for the trip was...

that the procedure was less expensive in Mexico. It doesn't make much sense to make such a trip if they could get it done for the same price here.

[jimfields33]

72. My reply pretty much agreed with yours.

[bronxiteforever]

12. We spent trillions of dollars on Iraq and Afghanistan

yet we let the neighbor nation fall into chaos. Imagine if we had spent some of that Iraq money on bolstering a democratic and stable nation next door to us.

So many Americans live with the head up their nether regions. While we played in the sand box for decades, South and Central America turned into basket cases.

I hear great patriotic bullcrap every day in this country but not one mention of the fires burning to the South of us. Why are there immigrants? Just Look at the governments and safety factors for families that live in those countries. Oh but the great American Superheroes “would never immigrate out of fear. That is just not in our DNA”. What a bunch of crap. The elemental human reaction is to save your family and yourself.

So blame New York or Chicago but that line of so called reasoning is crap. It is a fundamental failure of curiosity at other countries situations. So if your solution is outrage with no logic or reason or understanding then count me out because it flawed and is a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

[Easterncedar]

16. Word. Thanks

Imagine too if we had spent some of those billions on building communities in Afghanistan instead of arming warlords

[UpInArms]

25. A place to learn a lot about

What US policies have done in South America is at this link

https://thirdworldtraveler.com/

It is a very enlightening site

[Martin68]

36. The trillions spent in Afghanistan did not make that country safer for anybody in the long run.

But I think investing in the countries south of our border to encourage democracy and improve the living standard would be money well spent. Fewer refugees, less crime, and a safer hemisphere would be a good goal.

[PufPuf23]

45. What you said. Thank you. nt

[davsand]

13. US doesn't get to "DEMAND" anything of another nation.

Remember how well it went when the orange pendejo demanded Mexico pay for his wall?

I'm not saying tourists getting killed anywhere is good, but demanding anything from Mexico--or any other nation--is destined to fail. Again, I stress that in an ideal world tourists don't get killed when they go visit someplace, but it's been no secret for a very long time that tourism to some areas of Mexico is not as safe as everybody would like. Our State Department issues warnings all the time about the safety of travel to different places all over the world, including Mexico. If tourists travel anywhere they need to be informed about local conditions. Sadly, too many Americans don't stop to consider safety because they just assume being Americans will impart some sort of special safety. It doesn't.


Laura

[ificandream]

31. Paying for a stupid wall and demanding Americans don't get killed are two radically different things

I hope President Biden comes down hard on Mexico for this and lets them know this better not happen again. We should also do something ... sanctions, maybe?

[Scruffy1]

14. I cross the border a lot.

the last time I walked across the El Norte Bridge there were armed Nacionales all over the Central District in Juarez. My own opinion is that as long as there is demand. for illegal drugs the problem will exist with drug cartels. The USA has been their main source of income for all my life. The "War on Drugs has been an epic failure for over 60 years. We should have learned this from our own experience with prohibition of alcohol. The percentage of the US population that used alcohol increased during prohibition. Meanwhile, it seems that it is easier to bash Mexico than face the harsh reality that banning substances does not work. Addiction is a public health problem, not a criminal one. Poor Mexico:"So far from God and so close to the USA."

[mountain grammy]

20. We need to demand America clear up it's huge gun violence problem.

It's unacceptable to have Americans getting killed like this. The American government has a lot to answer for.

[roody]

30. decriminalize drugs

[RandiFan1290]

52. * You're

You guys always have trouble with that one.

[Traildogbob]

8. And Grahams response.....

Sponsering a bill the go to war with Mexico. Tim Scott can lead the charge. And MTG is ready to send sons and daughters to go to war with Mexico. But hell no on Ukraine.

[McKim]

11. A Victim of Our High Priced Health Care System

Yes, we need to do better. These were victims of our high priced health care system!

[MichMan]

15. It was cosmetic surgery

Not medically necessary

[I_UndergroundPanther]

51. If she lost a lot of weight a tummy tuck

Would not be cosmetic

A big sagging drape of skin can create a lot of physical problems. Plus it really looks bad when you have lost weight and your skin hangs.

I have this problem and I wish I could get a tummy tuck and get rid of this apron of skin flapping around.

Dont automatically think a cosmetic procedure is all vanity

[LeftInTX]

65. Her friend said she was getting a butt lift

I don't think any surgery was planned.

The story keeps changing.

They all.had lengthy records, including drug manufacturing and weapons
I don't know what happened, but driving around Matamoros for 2 hours was strange. Who takes 3 guys with you to surgery and drives around town for 2 hours beforehand? What about NPO and all that?

[I_UndergroundPanther]

66. Good question

With more information it gets fishyer and fishyer

[Rebl2]

18. Swear I

heard NPR say they went there to buy prescription medication.

[C Moon]

24. That's what some news sources were saying. The first report I saw said a medical procedure.

In fact, I believe the article said it was a cosmetic procedure.
Maybe that was too personal, so they dropped the specifics.

[Warpy]

39. It was a cosmetic procedure

per the article. She's a pretty enough lady, so I have to wonder what she wanted done.

Cosmetic procedures generally aren't covered by insurance except in some narrowly defined cases. There is a lot of medical tourism to Mexico for those.

[LeftInTX]

54. Tummy tuck is what the local papers say

[Warpy]

57. Accounts called her the mother of five

so I can well imagine she'd really want that procedure. It's the kind of thing medical tourism to Mexico is a good deal for, unless you drive down and some gang of thugs is looking for a vehicle just like yours.

As corrupt as the cops there are, I'm betting they will crack down on that particular gang, encouraging them to avoid the corridor from the US to the various hospitals. This is really bad for business.

[LeftInTX]

48. It was for a cosmetic procedure

[LeftInTX]

55. She went for a tummy tuck

[Skittles]

59. cosmetic procedure

WTF

[doc03]

9. MTG wanted to send in the Special Forces or bomb Mexico.

[Jerry2144]

22. Can we send her there, instead of special forces

Oh wait. That would be an act of war. Nobody should have Perjury Traitor Greene indicted on them

[ificandream]

33. Give her a squad of Republicans to command and send her down there.

Last edited Tue Mar 7, 2023, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

[EX500rider]

46. Jeez is that a Barrett .50 without eye protection..

.. or over the ear ear protection?

Might have ear plugs but they probably wouldn't cut it for a 50 cal.

[LeftInTX]

63. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an altercation

before this. They were in Matamoros for 2.5 hrs b4 this happened.

[MenloParque]

10. I feel safer in Mexico than I do in the States. I have a place in Sonora that I plan to retire

To once I’m done working here in a couple of years. Never had a problem. I cross the Border at Nogales, Arizona once a month. Random acts of violence happen in the states like Mexico. Sure you need to have good situational awareness just like anywhere in the States. Yes, it’s also fuck around and find out just like anywhere else.

[EX500rider]

28. "I feel safer in Mexico than I do in the States."

I wouldn't, Mexico's murder rate is over 4 times worse then the US rate. Mexico makes the Top 10, the US makes the Top 60.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[MenloParque]

29. I've never been carjacked, mugged, or sexually assaulted in Mexico. I've been a victim of all three

of those crimes in California. Yeah, I feel much safer in my beautiful Northern Mexico town.

[EX500rider]

47. And I never been carjacked mugged or sexually assaulted in the US

But individual experience is not statistical data.
And statistically your four times more likely to be murdered in Mexico.

[EX500rider]

60. Kidnapping is through the roof in Mexico also

Kidnappings in Mexico are disturbingly common. Last year, Mexico reached the horrific figure of 100,000 people disappeared or missing in the country. Most kidnappings are carried out with complete impunity, particularly in the case of undocumented immigrants travelling north to the US.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-64825204

[XorXor]

67. Is it safe to say that you've spent the vast majority of your time in the US and only a

relatively small amount of time in Mexico?

[Scruffy1]

17. I have my suspicions about this story.

I have no evidence, but the whole story smells a little in my mind. The thing that grabs me is six people in a van so one can get a medical procedure. It might be true, but then the whole thing looks like a classic drug buyer rip-off. I'm sure there is a lot of trafic at that border crossing, so picking off one vehicle sounds like a planned event. Call me cynical. Either way this kind of thing really hurts the economy of the border cities.

[question everything]

21. It was reported on CNN that this may have been a mistaken identity among drug rivals

and, as mentioned above it was for a cosmetic surgery.

Several years ago I was taken aback when an acquaintance, in her year end letter, said she went to Mexico to get that stomach reduction surgery.

Just sad

[mainer]

35. That's about the only thing that makes sense

cartels don't usually go after Americans or tourists.

[raccoon]

23. It was four people in a van.

[Farmer-Rick]

37. Yeah, this story sounds fishy to me too

But, it's possible.

I know folks who go to Mexico for dental work on a regular basis. It's half the cost. They go there regularly and never had any problems at all. They've been doing this for about 10 years.

I asked them about this story and they think some information is missing.

[cactusfractal]

19. I saw the video

The only one "herded" was the only ambulatory survivor. The two dead were dead at the scene, as evidenced by the blood in the street and the unceremonious dumping of their (undoubtedly) corpses into the pickup by men who have obviously done this before

[yaesu]

26. Violence is a product of illegal drugs and too many guns

Drug gangs, cartels get their power from over the top drug laws driving the black market, guns come from the most armed nation in the world, the US

[Zeitghost]

76. Partially correct

It's also (and primarily) the product of a corrupt government.

We have plenty of guns and drugs here in the US and we don't have anywhere near the amount of cartel/gang violence.

[Martin68]

32. This is very concerning. American tourists are usually left alone.

[LeftInTX]

49. Yes, especially if they are non-Hispanic

However, about 25 years ago, there was a spring breaker who was abducted and killed by a satanic cult in Matamoros.

[Martin68]

56. The Post reported today that Mexican authorities suspect the tourists, who are African-American,

may have been mistaken for Haitian refugees, who have been kidnapped before.

[LeftInTX]

62. This story is all over the place

Going for tummy tuck
Cross bridge at 9:18 am
Supposedly lost in Matamoros
Ambushed at 11:45 am after being hit by a vehicle..(approx 1 mile from the bridge)

It's just weird..you take three friends with you while you get a tummy tuck?
You're lost in Matamoros for 2.5 hrs while looking for the surgery place?

Something is missing here..

I don't see how they could be mistaken for Haitians. They had NC plates. They obviously would not have spoken like Haitians and likely didn't dress like asylum seekers

[XorXor]

69. To me, it seems reasonable that they turned this medical visit into a little vacation

"Ohh going to mexico? I want to go too! We can go check out some stuff before and after"

Also, it doesn't seem unreasonable that someone wouldn't want to go to Mexico alone. Particularly a woman given the issues with kidnappings for sex trafficking. As for getting lost for 2.5 hrs. I once got lost for a good amount of time in the Bronx (ending up in Harlem) when trying to get back on the LIE to get back to Suffolk county in New York. Grant you, this was before I had GPS, though.

I mean, it's always possible there was something more going on, but I don't think those reasons listed above are evidence of it. There's plenty of perfectly innocent and reasonable explanations too. I personally prefer to give the benefit of the doubt until there is strong reasons not to.

[LeftInTX]

73. They also have rap sheets for.manufacturing, distribution

weapons, assault.
No one who goes to Mexico for cosmetic surgery thinks this is how to go about it.
A tummy tuck is a major surgery! What about NPO and all that? They go sight seeing instead? And her friend who stayed in Brownsville said, "I think she was gonna have a butt lift"

I think they are lying to avoid getting in trouble.

Also.why on earth would they have been ambushed and kidnapped? It's not that dangerous down there. They just don't randomly kill people. Something happened. Sure they didn't deserve this, but something happened and someone was provoked for some reason.

[XorXor]

75. Informaton like that does tilt the scale a bit in the other direction

Previous involvement in the underworld is a big red flag.

[okaawhatever]

58. I remember that well. The witch of Matamoros. Killed 25+ people. nt

[XorXor]

68. Was this a case of mistaken identity?

[Mosby]

42. US state department.

Currently, officials are telling U.S. citizens:

Do Not Travel to:

Colima state due to crime and kidnapping.
Guerrero state due to crime.
Michoacan state due to crime and kidnapping.
Sinaloa state due to crime and kidnapping
Tamaulipas state due to crime and kidnapping.
Zacatecas state due to crime and kidnapping.

Reconsider Travel To:

Baja California state due to crime and kidnapping.
Chihuahua state due to crime and kidnapping.
Durango state due to crime.
Guanajuato state due to crime and kidnapping.
Jalisco state due to crime and kidnapping.
Morelos state due to crime.
Sonora state due to crime and kidnapping.

Exercise Increased Caution When Traveling To:

Aguascalientes state due to crime.
Baja California Sur state due to crime.
Chiapas state due to crime.
Coahuila state due to crime.
Hidalgo state due to crime.
Mexico City due to crime.
Mexico State due to crime.
Nayarit state due to crime.
Nuevo Leon state due to crime and kidnapping.
Oaxaca state due to crime.
Puebla state due to crime and kidnapping.
Queretaro state due to crime.
Quintana Roo state due to crime and kidnapping.
San Luis Potosi state due to crime and kidnapping.
Tabasco state due to crime.
Tlaxcala state due to crime.
Veracruz state due to crime.

Exercise Normal Precautions When Traveling To:

Campeche state
Yucatan state

https://www.abc15.com/news/national/officials-urging-u-s-citizens-to-avoid-travel-to-areas-of-mexico-due-to-crime-kidnappings

[MichMan]

44. State Dept advises not to go to Tamaulipas, and they went anyway.

Not very smart to ignore.

[LeftInTX]

50. Welp..It's.my 2nd closest border, but Coahuila

is mostly mountains, desert and wilderness. Tamalpais borders Laredo and Brownsville. Coahuila borders Del Rio and Eagle Pass. (Not much happening in Acuna)

I don't know if you can get a tummy tuck in Acuna or Piedres.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

43. Survivors of deadly Mexico abduction returned to US

CIUDAD VICTORIA, Mexico (AP) — A road trip to Mexico for cosmetic surgery veered violently off course when four Americans were caught in a drug cartel shootout, leaving two dead and two held captive for days in a remote region of the Gulf coast before they were rescued from a wood shack, officials said Tuesday.

Their minivan crashed and was fired on shortly after they crossed into the border city of Matamoros on Friday as drug cartel factions tore through the streets, the region’s governor said. A stray bullet also killed a Mexican woman about a block and a half away.

The four Americans were hauled off in a pickup truck, and Mexican authorities frantically searched as the cartel moved them around — even taking them to a medical clinic — “to create confusion and avoid efforts to rescue them,” Tamaulipas Gov. Américo Villarreal said.

They were found Tuesday in a wooden shack, guarded by a man who was arrested, in a rural area east of Matamoros called Ejido Tecolote on the way to the Gulf called “Bagdad Beach,” according to the state’s chief prosecutor, Irving Barrios.

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-kidnapped-americans-killed-eaed854f1b16cd61fb79edcb5b87cfe6

[róisín_dubh]

61. I've studied Mexico for 20 years.

Know where I’ve never been? The border cities? Why?The US-Mexico border is a violent, very dangerous place.
Most of Mexico is fine for average tourists. I reckon Oaxaca City or Mérida are safer than nearly all comparably-sized US cities.
I have my sympathies for the families, but this whole situation is deeply problematic.
Any guesses as to how many Mexicans go missing or are murdered each year? And how many are “solved” within days? That Venn diagram is pretty much a circle.
How many women have been beaten, raped, mutilated or murdered? The US sure as hell didn’t care then. Mexico’s governments haven’t cared either.
Mexico also has a significant race problem. Black people in Mexico unfortunately are targets and Black Mexicans only recently received constitutional recognition.
I love the country and the talks of invading it or cracking down on it are laughable (not to sound crass, but there are f*cking travel warnings in place for a reason).
Sorry for the early morning rant, but scholars of Mexico are deeply pissed by this whole story.

[LeftInTX]

64. I hope they get to the bottom of this

I kinda don't think it was a random event. Americans deserve to feel safe when they cross the border.