Pope Slams Capitalism, Inequality Between Rich And Poor In New Years Message
Source: Huffington Post
Earlier in his homily, the leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics decried "hotbeds of tension and conflict caused by growing instances of inequality between rich and poor".
He also denounced "the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated capitalism, various forms of terrorism and criminality".
...
In his full message for the peace day, the pope called for a new economic model and ethical regulations for markets, saying the global financial crisis was proof that capitalism does not protect society's weakest members.
Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/01/pope-slams-capitalism-ine_n_2392653.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
Archae
(46,262 posts)The guy sits in luxury while his "subjects" die in poverty and as a result of their outdated dogma.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)however, I agree with what he said...for once and probably once only.
The right words, out of the wrong person.
totodeinhere
(13,037 posts)Yes he was a member of the Hitler Youth but membership was required of all boys his age at that time. He had no choice but to join and he has subsequently repudiated Nazi dogma.
Archae
(46,262 posts)Bullshit. He wanted to.
He's still acting like a nazi. A theocratic religious nazi.
He even gave his blessing to a Ugandan politician who is battling to make being gay eligible for the death penalty.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/dec/30/disgrace-papal-blessing-ugandan-homophobia
totodeinhere
(13,037 posts)There is no historical evidence that I have seen to that effect. If you have some please share it.
Whether he wanted to or not should not matter now. He was a minor.
musical_soul
(775 posts)so I'm trying to find a balanced source that backs this up. So far, the sources I'm finding on this usually have a bias. Do you have a more balance source?
musical_soul
(775 posts)Just a quick answer to that point.
Blessing somebody doesn't mean you agree with what they're doing.
It's been pointed out that the Pope also blessed Obama despite disagreeing with him about abortion.
Archae
(46,262 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)but how man child molesters has this person protected?
totodeinhere
(13,037 posts)issue that you brought up. My point was a narrow once. He was a fourteen year old boy who was forced to join the Nazi Youth. I still think it's unfair to criticize him about that. But there are many other legitimate criticisms.
CountAllVotes
(20,854 posts)Especially on an internet message board.
I do not like hearing anyone addressed as a "nazi bastard" and that is directed to YOU.
Let the Catholic hatred bashing continue. Why they allow this on this forum is beyond me as it is hateful, injurious to devout Catholics and is therefore indeed harmful to those that do believe strongly in Catholicism.
While I am no fan of Pope Ratzinger, I do not hate him nor this message of good will for the New Year.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)"the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated capitalism, various forms of terrorism and criminality".
I've never heard a Popey type say something so true.
Capitalism is evil.
...terrorism and criminality? Oh ya, the House Reps that are going to continue to hold America and Americans hostage for the richest.
Happy New Year to ya, freshwest!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)AlphaCentauri
(6,460 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)While he lives in an ancient gilded and painted palace full of priceless art wearing embroidered robes 1st designed in like the 9th century
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)eppur_se_muova
(36,227 posts)pamela
(3,469 posts)Let's see if he puts his Catholicism over his Randism. What a conundrum for poor Eddie.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:21 PM - Edit history (1)
up a few of the Catholics who are following him.Oh, wait, Ayn Rand hated religion more than she loved William Hickman and capitalism, so they won't be reading any of that.
Never mind...
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)ROFL!
We thought of the same thing.
And isn't Newtie a convert...and Sicky Ricky Santorum a cult member?
Bozita
(26,955 posts)Amonester
(11,541 posts)Occupy The Vatican!
Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)that slammed gay people in his Xmas remarks.
No credibility from an anachronistic piece of shit.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)...he put capitalism in the same sentence as terrorism & criminality, where it belongs. Yeah, he's the Pope and all, and we all know the history of Catholicism. But this is something that needed to be said to the world. Why, if you're an American, you think that capiitalism is next to Godlyness, and nothing could be further from the truth! I think the reason he said it is because all the super-rich capitalist parishioners in the Catholic church are threatening the withholding of donations/tithes if their taxes go up. No?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)crushing liberation theology into the dust.
Life can only be changed by revolt from below...not by a finger-wagging homily from the Vatican.
Benedict doesn't give a shit about the poor and he never did. All he cares about is "obedience" and "order".
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)I'll even consider not spitting at. RIP, Archbishop Oscar Romero.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)who said "When I fed the poor, they called me a saint. When I asked why the poor had no food,
They called me a Communist"
Neither of those two would be allowed to go above the level of parish priest(if they were even going to be ordained)in the Church of Ratzi.
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)eppur_se_muova
(36,227 posts)TomCADem
(17,378 posts)... Reproductive rights. Otherwise, you can't have Ryan facing uncomfortable questions about his love of Ayn Rand versus the Pope's comments.
think
(11,641 posts)TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)How about you open up your vaults, sell your treasures and feed the fucking poor you helped create?
phantom power
(25,966 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)and wrong.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)After all, he's POPE for Pete's sake. God told him he wants him to sit on a mountain of gold while his lambs starve.
quakerboy
(13,901 posts)I doubt it will be anything that the Roman Catholic Church makes a central theme of in its power structures. And, even if they did, I can think of very little as likely to see the end of the Catholic church as a world power as a conflict with Capitalism. Capitalism is the far larger and more influential religion. But I guess that would make a for a win/win conflict for the world, in many ways.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)Politicub
(12,163 posts)I wish he would slither back to the nazi youth camp or whatever rock he crawled out from under.
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)Capitalism is far more of a religion in the western world than Christianity ever was.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I don't know if it's a new low, but it's pretty low.
Mainly puerile schoolyard retorts as in "fuck you, ratso" or "STFU, Pope," leavened with some accusations of hypocrisy.
Not too many substantive responses to his critique of capitalism, though. Not that it's really new or surprising; popes have been saying similar things for quite a while. It makes eminent sense, in a "love your neighbor" sort of way.
_ed_
(1,734 posts)why doesn't Mr Ratzinger start selling the riches of the Vatican? Oh yeah, they have to pay billions of dollars in legal fees defending their pedophile buddies.
I'll start giving a fuck what Mr Ratzinger thinks right after he sells his shiny red shoes and his gold throne. He's a clown: it's nice that he also dresses like one so the rest of us can identify him.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)more might listen if he wasn't a hater
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Huffington Post is quoting the third paragraph in part, in whole it reads as follows:
Although the world is sadly marked by hotbeds of tension and conflict caused by growing instances of inequality between rich and poor, by the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated financial capitalism, as well as by various forms of terrorism and crime, I am convinced that the many different efforts at peacemaking which abound in our world testify to mankinds innate vocation to peace. In every person the desire for peace is an essential aspiration which coincides in a certain way with the desire for a full, happy and successful human life. In other words, the desire for peace corresponds to a fundamental moral principle, namely, the duty and right to an integral social and communitarian development, which is part of Gods plan for mankind. Man is made for the peace which is Gods gift. All of this led me to draw inspiration for this Message from the words of Jesus Christ: Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God (Mt Five; Nine) (Message, 1). This beatitude tells us that peace is both a messianic gift and the fruit of human effort It is peace with God through a life lived according to his will. It is interior peace with oneself, and exterior peace with our neighbours and all creation (ibid., 2, 3). Indeed, peace is the supreme good to ask as a gift from God and, at the same time, that which is to be built with our every effort.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)This is politics: No permanent friends | No permanent enemies.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022093997
Some of DU has real difficulty when someone they usually dislike suddenly agrees with them on an important issue. We saw the same sort of freakout when Ron Paul came out against the Homeland Security police state and drone kills.
To DU: Remember. In politics, our permanent loyalties must not be to individuals, but to our values and principles. It's okay to agree with someone you dislike on something important. It does not erase everything else you disagree with them about.
musical_soul
(775 posts)And may I say God bless him.
My priest said one day that some people act like capitalism was invented by Jesus Christ. Problem is it can lead out to too much selfishness and greed. By contrast, too much socialism can lead out to people losing the right to be individual. I agree with that.
primavera
(5,191 posts)I'm very far indeed from being a fan of this pope, but there are a whole lot of people in the world who take what he has to say very seriously. And since, for once, he's actually saying something useful, I say don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)Pope who?
You mean he finally found an angle that gets attention? He's tried just about everything from sheer blasphemy against the human race by treachery toward women and children, to pushing bishops toward dividing world politics, to ... now... anti-capitalism rhetoric.
Hypocrisy, pure hypocrisy. I don't give a damn if he is using the "right" words or not. The Catholic Church and its figurehead illusion, the Pope, are the essence of bile crimes against humanity in the name of power and authority over the weak and the powerful.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Those paintings, sculptures, mitres, robes, rings, chalices, etc. could feed a few billion people.
The Pieta? The Ecstacy of Saint Theresa?
Hmm???
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)But I agree with him about capitalism.
allrevvedup
(408 posts)to replace it. Trust me, church property has been monetized by greedy pols and their lord chancellors many, many times, and always at a loss to the faithful who sacrificed their pennies to accumulate it. It's happening now in fact. And not once to my knowledge has that looted church property gone to feed the hungry. In any case I've never seen that particular staff and I've seen two popes up close and personal, Benny twice. Here's a pic from last October that I posted in another thread:
Happy new year!
Response to UrbScotty (Original post)
Post removed
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I'm not a Catholic. I don't even believe in a Supreme Being. And I certainly don't agree with some of the Church's retrograde positions on gender and sexuality and the like.
That said, the pope is the spiritual leader of a church that has more than one billion members. And his statement on capitalism was pretty damned progressive. And what is the response on DU? Junior high school insults, sheer hatred, and vitriol. I assume there are some Catholic members of DU. I wonder how they feel about their online peers after reading this crap.
Haters gotta hate, I guess.
CountAllVotes
(20,854 posts)One vote for every devout member of this faith.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)This a-hole is the power behind the anti-women, anti-gay idiocy of his church. Plus, he's a disgusting hypocrite -- the Vatican is one of the biggest grifters and money hoarders on the planet, and he's railing against capitalism? Give me a break. He deserves zero respect.
allrevvedup
(408 posts)Your comments are fine, but some in this thread are clear violations of DU Community Standards (rude, over-the-top, inappropriate, not to mention unbelievably juvenile) and a few are also violations of TOS ("bigoted hate speech" .
What is hate speech? It's communication that incites hatred of an individual or group based on a characteristic such as race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, age, disability, or religion. It's wrong no matter who it's directed toward and there are much better ways to express disagreement. Instead of reciting predictable schoolyard insults for example wouldn't it be better to discuss actual policies and their effects?
AnnieBW
(10,350 posts)He's one to talk.
IndyJones
(1,068 posts)What a coincidence. Neither do priests in their legally unregulated, self protecting world. Does that mean the RCC doesn't work, either?
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)To quote a meme: "Let me tell you to give all you have to the poor while I hold this gold cross."
allrevvedup
(408 posts)and its nuncios, and Vatican City is about as big as an average urban university. Catholic properties (parishes, hospitals, etc) are typically owned by their local bishop, and since the pope is the bishop of Rome, he only "owns" his Roman property and the Vatican embassies. Here's a discussion of the question posted on DU eight years ago:
10. The General Rule is Catholic Property is owned by the Bishop/Diocese
This is based on the old Middle age Concept that the Property of a political/Religious unit is owned by the person in charge of that Political/Religious unit. In the Middle ages (Before modern concepts of land ownership appeared) the King was viewed as owning everything he had NOT sold to someone else (and this is still the theory on Land Titles in the US, you are the "Tenant" of the "King" who since July 4th, 1776 is now your state the land is in NOT the King of England). Wild Animals are owned by the "King" (Now the State) till taken as game EVEN IF ON PROPERTY OWNED BY A PRIVATE OWNER.
In the Middle ages this was Even more severe. If you were the Ruler of a an area you were also viewed as owning everything in that Kingdom or Dukedom or County etc. Bishops were viewed as having that same "power" except restricted to "Religious" property. Thus, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, any property owned by the Catholic Church in a Diocese is "owned" by that Diocese's Bishop (and thus the Diocese).
You have exceptions, the house of the Papal Nuncio (The Ambassador from the Vatican) is "owned" by the Vatican not the Catholic Bishop of Washington. Other exemptions include Jesuits and Franciscan's (and other religious orders, including female religious orders) Monasteries, Convents, Schools, Retreats etc. are often owned by the Religious Society as opposed to the Diocese. You sometime have disputes when a Parish has its own funds, that the Diocese views as its own (Year to Year operating funds are rarely in dispute, but large endowments are often disputed especially when an old Church is closed i.e. what to do with that Parish's funds given the parish no longer exists).
My point here is a clear picture would take a lot of Research as to how various lands are held within a Diocese. If it is NOT clear otherwise the property belongs to the Diocese (and thus the Bishop).
Note the Pope is the "Bishop of Rome" NOT the "Bishop of the World" thus the only property the pope owns in in the Diocese of Rome EXCEPT where it is clear the papacy is the owner of the property instead of the local Bishop (Papal Nuncio and other Vatican missions are examples of this).
One note on the "Riches" of the Vatican, a lot of it are Art and Sculpture that any secular ruler of the 1500-1800s had to have to show he was a successful ruler. With expansion of Democracy such objects are no longer fashionable but the Vatican has more than most countries and have adopted a policy that other countries have adopted for such arts objects (i.e. put them in Museums so people can see them). The Vatican has several such Museums (Including one on "profane" art i.e. non-religious art objects) in Rome. These art objects are both valuable and in-valuable. I hate to say it the best solution to what to do with them is what the Vatican (and other European Governments with similar Art abjects obtains during the same time period) have done, put them in Museum instead of selling them to private collectors where most people will never see them.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5691728&mesg_id=5691862
The long and short of it is that the Vatican owns about as much real estate as a typical state university. Ironically enough, when I was there last October, Italy announced plans to repeal its tax exemptions on all religions properties including the Vatican.