Biden seeks video game industry input on guns

[dipsydoodle]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Looking for broader remedies to gun violence, Vice President Joe Biden is reaching out to the video game industry for ideas as the White House seeks to assemble proposals in response to last month's massacre at a Connecticut elementary school.

Biden is scheduled to meet with video game representatives Friday as the White House explores cultural factors that may contribute to violent behavior.

The vice president, who is leading a task force that will present recommendations to President Barack Obama on Tuesday, met with other representatives from the entertainment industry, including Comcast Corp. and the Motion Picture Association of America, on Thursday.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_GUN_CONTROL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-11-03-45-33

[Kelvin Mace]

1. Why? Video games deal with fake guns

not real ones.

And if he is going to make the bullshit argument that violent video games foster violent murders, he will have to explain why the rest of the Western world, that plays the same violent video games, doesn't have mass shooting every to weeks.

[randome]

2. Everything should be on the table.

It's surprising to me how some think the big bad government is going to take away their 'games'. The reason is obvious -they aren't just 'games' for many. It's a way of life.

If Monopoly was outlawed tomorrow, would you be up in arms about it? I suspect not.

[Skyline]

3. As a Monopoly master

I would be, as a gamer as well as a competition shooter I am up in arms of taking away an liberties.

Video games are not to blame and neither are guns.

2010 in China a crazy person killed 11 children with a knife and in 2012 there was an attack that injured 22 children with severe wounds, should China outlaw knives?

[randome]

5. No one said anything about 'taking away' video games. Or guns.

And your being a Monopoly Master means you are in an extremely select group. My point is that for the vast majority of people, playing a 'game' was not a way of life. That has changed relatively recently so it's something that needs to be looked at.

Maybe nothing will come of the examination but to insist that some stones remain unturned does not help.

[Kelvin Mace]

14. Except that the stones have not been "unturned"

Last edited Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:26 PM - Edit history (1)

There have been many studies over the decades about linking violence to video games, comic books, movies, TV, porn, Dungeons & Dragons (and other RPGs), LARPing, paintball, etc.

I would point out that a government funded study of firearms, violence and public health are prohibited by law.

[randome]

16. The prohibition on government funded studies needs to revoked instantly.

[Kelvin Mace]

35. I certainly agree with you

on that.

[primavera]

48. Talk to the NRA

They're the ones who pressured Congress into banning research on gun violence.

[randome]

52. I heard a spokesman on CNN discussing something like this.

I didn't hear enough of it to know if it was the same issue. I hope it was.

[enlightenment]

32. I've never heard of this prohibition on government funded study -

do you have a link? I tried googling and couldn't find anything that fit.
Thanks.

[Kelvin Mace]

34. Here you go

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/10/nra-gun-safety_n_2449591.html

A recent story.

[enlightenment]

36. Ah - so this is more about gun control

than violent video games.

Thanks for the link.

[Kelvin Mace]

38. Yes, to clarify

I was talking about banning government research into gun violence.

There have been oodles of studies on video games, TV violence, comic books, movie violence and porn.

[enlightenment]

43. Thanks.

That resolves my confusion.

[primavera]

49. And here's another...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/09/us/nra-gun-research/index.html?iref=obinsite

[jayfish]

4. If Monopoly were being outlawed...

in response to the financial crisis of 2007–2008 then yes I'd be "up in arms" (interesting choice of words) about it. I don't remember the Bush or Obama administrations inviting Hasbro to discuss the crisis with them either.

[randome]

6. Because Monopoly was never a way of life for millions.

It was a game that was played once or twice a month for the vast majority. Playing games today is much different. Just the fact that it has now become a way of life for millions should be cause for self-examination.

[ButterflyBlood]

8. Because people like to play video games?

I guess watching TV or browsing the internet should be "cause for self-examination" then.

[randome]

13. 'Playing' video games is not an issue.

Millions of people making a game a way of life, however -that makes alarm bells ring in my head.

[Fumesucker]

56. Millions of people make watching a TV a way of life, however -that makes alarm bells ring in my head

[Kelvin Mace]

17. Books are read each day by millions of people

Reading books is a way of life.

Using a social media today is a way of life for millions of people.

Blogging today is a way of life for millions of people.

Watching Netflix today is a way of life for millions of people.

Listening to an iPod today is a way of life for millions of people.

Driving today is a way of life for millions of people.

There are MANY things we do today that we never did at all, or we do way more of than in the past.

Other countries watch the same movies, play the same video games, listen to the same music, have access to the same porn, etc, but mass shootings are RARE.

The more "other things" you "put on the table", the less likely you are to solve the problem.

[randome]

19. Sure. We can't put EVERYTHING on the table.

But the top 10 suspects of having an influence might be a good way to start. NOT putting something on the table because it's too problematical is not a good way to find answers.

There are enough people who think violence in the media MAY have an influence that I think it should be one of those items on the table. And by media, I mean hate radio, video games, torture porn movies.

[Kelvin Mace]

31. I am not interested in what "enough people"

think, I am interested in hard evidence, and it just isn't there.

Science is not "majority rule" and is not about what "people think", but what can be proven empirically.

"Enough people" believe that the lack of prayer in school, gay marriage, teaching evolution and sex ed "influence" people to commit violence. So, are those issues "on the table" by virtue of "enough people" believing it?*

We have multiple social groups. All these social groups are exposed to the same kind of violent media, hate speech, porn, etc.

Yet, only ONE social group responds by walking into schools/businesses/public venues and killing dozens of people on a regular basis.

Now, the one thing the other social groups LACK that is present on our "violent" group, is EASY access to military grade assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

With these facts, I do not have to be Sherlock Holmes to know that I am wasting my time addressing "influences" that "enough people" seem to "believe".

_______________________________________________

* In fact, empirical evidence proves the EXACT opposite.

[randome]

41. We're not even talking about 'science' here. We're talking about Biden's task force.

We don't need scientific proof of something to talk about it on a federal level.

We're having a conversation about it here on DU. Nothing wrong with having that same conversation on a federal level.

[Kelvin Mace]

44. The point of the conversation at government levels

is to solve a problem. Bringing video games, movies, porn, etc does NOT help solve the problem of gun violence in America, it just muddies the waters and gives the NRA scapegoats.

I have no objection to discussing anything here, but I will not condone waste of time, effort and money by public officials looking to blame every "suspect" but the obvious culprit.

[randome]

45. I get the feeling that the NRA is not going to get away this time without some changes.

[Kelvin Mace]

47. And I truly, sincerely, hope you are right

But, over the last decade, every time I think that a group will not cross a line, or will finally deal with a problem, I have been gravely disappointed.

I would LOVE to be wrong now.

[randome]

50. I would love for you to be wrong, too!

[ButterflyBlood]

7. "Everything should be on the table" including blatantly unconstitutional bans?

Banning violent video games is not going to past constitutional muster. Actually the Supreme Court has already spoken on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Association

And yeah I'd be pretty upset about a fucking inane and idiotic ban of Monopoly.

[randome]

15. No one I've seen here is talking about banning anything.

But to leave certain stones unturned because someone might be upset would mean we are not serious about changing things.

There is a range of possible issues that need to be on the table.

Violent media (hate radio, video games, torture porn movies).
Easy access to guns.
Mental illness.

None of these can be said to be the CAUSE of mass murder. Do any of them have an influence on already mentally disturbed inviduals? These are hard questions for some. That doesn't mean they should not be asked.

What's wrong with some self-examination? That doesn't mean anything is going to get banned.

[Kelvin Mace]

23. Of course they can have an influence on a deranged person

so what? That is part and parcel with being deranged, being influenced in a manner no one else is.

You focus on the deranged people and the means by which they hurt people. If deranged people constrained their murdering impulses to video games, we wouldn't have a problem. It should also be noted that a number of these loons DIDN'T play violent video games, so what is their excuse? Some people murder because "God told them to", or drown their children because they believe them to be demons. One man induced HUNDREDS of people to drink cyanide-laced Kool-Ade, and this was WAY before "violent video games".

I have not seen a single mass murder committed with a video game, an iPad full of porn, or a Tivo chock full of snuff films. Instead the common denominator was powerful firearms and lots of ammo.

Again, the fact that other countries have complete access to all the same virtual violence we do, yet the U.S. is the only one racking up a massive body count EXCLUDES video games, et al, from the argument and muddies the waters for finding the real causation.

[randome]

28. Americans are, in general, more fearful and hateful.

That's the difference between our country and others.

[Kelvin Mace]

33. A good argument can be made for the

Japanese being more culturally xenophobic than the U.S. Anyone who has questions about their ability to make the Varsity hating squad should ask the Chinese. Those who think that bigotry is a thing of the past should ask Koreans living in Japan how things are working out.

There is plenty of racism, bigotry and fearfulness in the UK and Australia.

Germany used to be the home of some pretty nasty customers, and we are seeing some of that old fear and hate resurface.

Northern Ireland is chock full of fear and hatred, but despite a decades long civil war, it is still harder to lay your hands of the kind of weapons I can pick up at a flea market here.

Greece has a new fascist party on the rise, as does Italy.

Bosnia and Serbia are still the center of centuries long hatred and fear, were recently a war zone, and we still do not have the type of violence there we do here.

Israel is arguably IN a war zone. Yet, they have VERY strict rules about firearm possession and few rules about violent video games.

[Puzzledtraveller]

39. Good point, Son of Sam took his orders from a dog.

[primavera]

53. They can have an influence on everyone

How much of an influence is open to debate, what - if anything - should be done about it if it is a contributor to violence is also open to debate. If they have no influence on violence whatsoever, then great, nothing needs to be done about it and there's no need to have a debate. But if you don't at least take a look at the subject, how will you ever know one way or the other?

I do think that American culture is more susceptible to violence than other countries because of our history and our cultural heritage. Our ancestors were explorers and settlers who resided in an untamed wilderness where anything and everything could be potentially life-threatening. We've grown up idolizing figures like John Wayne and Charles Bronson who surmount every obstacle, defeat every evildoer, and right every wrong with the aid of their trusty six shooter. We perceive danger everywhere and the solution to danger to be even more dangerous ourselves. That outlook differs radically from the prevailing cultural norms in other countries. Because we are so quick on the draw - both figuratively and literally - it's perhaps not inappropriate to examine the contributors to that culture that so fosters the desire to own and use guns.

[Kelvin Mace]

55. But it HAS been looked at

But if you don't at least take a look at the subject, how will you ever know one way or the other?

The Harvard Medical School Center for Mental Health, The Journal of Adolescent Health, and The British Medical Journal have done studies showing no conclusive link between video game usage and violent activity.

So, how many more studies do we need proving video games do not cause violent behavior?

As to our culture being "more susceptible" to violence, other countries consume American culture, other countries idolize Clint Eastwood, Charles Bronson, John Wayne, and a whole long list of violent movie icons, but they don't have mass shootings the way we do.

Practically everybody's ancestors were "explores and settlers" at some point in history. Great Britain over the course of its existence has invaded all but 22 countries in ENTIRE the world. France, Germany, Spain, The Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Egypt, Iran, Greece, India and China have at various points in their history had bloody, violent empires that slaughtered people by the millions in the course of their "exploration", "trade" and "settlement" These empires were around 2-5 five times longer than the U.S. has been around.

As bloody as U.S. history has been, we are absolute amateurs compared to those empires.

Let us go back to one of the most violent time in history, the days of Genghis Khan. In his day violence; grotesque, graphic, twisted, sadistic violence; was a DAILY occurrence. Riding into the village raping all the cattle and stealing all the women was just another business day. People were routinely gang-raped, disemboweled, beheaded, burned alive, flayed alive, pull apart by wild horses, impaled rectally/vaginally on stakes, or just simply beaten to death. For laughs they would pour molten lead into people ears or eyes.

That was NORMAL behavior for humanity. Today it is an aberration. So, despite all of the "violent" influences of video games, TV, porn, Dungeons & Dragons, etc, etc, humanity, as a whole, has become less violent. We are less violent as whole than we were 50-100 years ago. Lynchings, public executions, floggings, etc may occur in the world, but they are not seen as normal or "civilized".

We still have visceral violent outbursts, but they are much rarer, except in the U.S. where they are NOT so rare. And the only way the U.S. differs from everyone else, is in its EASY, CHILDISHLY SIMPLE access to military grade firearms, and more ammunition than some armies.

As long as we keep letting the NRA divert the conversation from the true problem, people will continue to die.

Men, women, children, infants.

Dead.

[Kelvin Mace]

12. Yes, I would actually

as I used to play at tournament levels.

However, the game never turned me into Donald Trump.

Also, I do not play any of the video games like GTA, or CoD, or whatever neat game out there shows me people's heads exploding.

I have watched quite a few violent movies in my life, and they were, if anything, the reason I moved to liberalism and pacifism.

Violent video games/movies/plays/books/music are not causes of violence, they are reflections of our society.

[randome]

22. No one is saying that violent media CAUSE violence.

Can they have an influence? That's the question that many seem to think is important to ask. Enough people think it should be on the table, I guess that's why Biden is talking to the industry about it.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. As I said above

EVERYTHING can influence a violent person. Why pick on just video games?

[randome]

27. For you to see this as 'picking on' something means, IMO, that you're not objective.

I think violence-soaked media (gaming as a way of life, hate radio, torture porn movies) is a good candidate for examination.

There is very little science that can reliably predict human behavior. So all we have to go on, really, is educated guesses and sometimes anecdotal 'evidence'.

It makes 'sense' -not 'proof', mind you- that immersion in violent media can influence already mentally disturbed individuals. We can't put everything on the table but we have to start somewhere.

[Kelvin Mace]

37. Nope, just iodiomatic use of the language

I think there are ALL sorts of reasons to look at hate radio, gaming as a way of life and torture porn, but none of them involve discussion of gun violence and gun control.

Also, there is a solid body of work out there that emotionally disturbed people ARE influenced by a variety of issues. This is not my opinion, but fact. Some of it seems obvious, but it is always not to have evidence backing up one's observations.

As to "reliably" predicting human behavior, all that science can tell us is that a x percentage of a subgroup exhibiting y behavior disorders are likely to act in z manner (or are q times more likely to act in z manner).

[randome]

42. Biden's task force can do more than one thing at a time.

In fact, if a CONFLUENCE of things contributes to mass murder, the task force HAS to look at more than one. His talking with the gaming industry is a good sign. Probably nothing will come of it but that's okay with me so long as it was considered dispassionately.

[Kelvin Mace]

46. His talking to the gaming industry

is another cave to the loony right who will blame anything expect a nation awash in cheap, powerful, military grade firearms.

Your criteria for discussion was "enough people believe" something is a problem. Certainly that can be criteria for a discussion, but it is not the criteria for a fruitful, rational discussion.

Tell me this, what scare you more:

1) Racist, anti-government hate groups with practically unlimited access to military assault rifles and ammunition?

or

2) Racist, anti-government hate groups with practically unlimited access to unlimited violent movies and torture porn?

Which is more dangerous to a six year old:

1) A loaded, easy to reach .357 magnum?

or

2) An unattended XBox-360?

[randome]

51. #1 and #1, of course.

If a national conversation leads to finding ways to reduce both, I am all for that. If violent gaming and torture porn and hate radio are merely reflections of our society, I want that to be part of the national conversation, as well.

I really don't have an agenda here, I just don't want to overlook anything that might lead to a solution. I FEEL that violence-soaked media has an affect on us, that's all. Nothing scientific. Nothing to take to the bank.

[Ter]

59. I would

I haven't played since I was 15 but that wouldn't be the point. It would be tyranny and would be protested.

[and-justice-for-all]

9. In the case of video games, why are they even talking to them...

that makes zero sense. Video games should involve parenting, not banning and retailers who sell the games should actually card people when they buy them. Parents should also talk to their offspring about everything as well.

Gun violence in this country is cultural, we live in a nation of fear and all of it is perpetuated via the media like FOX who stokes the fires of paranoia on a daily bases.

Taking some guns and armaments away from the general public is a good start, who needs a clip that holds 90 rounds or a military grade weapon? What needs banned, Gun show and internet purchases of guns and other accessories. There is no background check with those at all. There also needs to be a better evaluation process to screen someone who is wanting to buy a gun.

[Mojorabbit]

20. No one NEEDS a large clip

no one NEEDS violent video games. Politicians are meeting to discuss what we do and do not need. We will end up with no say in the matter. Whatever they ban will do nothing for the problem except make it look like they are taking action.

[and-justice-for-all]

58. I disagree...

but whatever.

[Enrique]

10. he should meet with the football industry

and discuss rape.

[Akoto]

11. Millions+ play video games. Millions+ do not massacre elementary schools. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

21. I think there are over 300 million

weapons out there and the majority do not massacre elementary schools either..

[Kelvin Mace]

25. Ah, yes, but

per capita, we do.

[Nihil]

18. In other news ...

Vice President Joe Biden is believed to have lined up meetings with Mattel (manufacturer of Hot Wheels)
in order to address the speeding problem, Schweppes (manufacturer of tonic water) with regard to the
consumption of alcoholic drinks and Ryvita (crispbreads & crackers) to address the issue of obesity ...

Way to miss the point Biden!

[flamingdem]

26. Extreme violence in games is part of a violence condoning society

Gamers who don't see that have a blind spot in my opinion.

[NeedleCast]

29. Maybe They can Raise Gary Gygax from the dead and question him too

Dungeons and Dragons must be responsible for this at some level.

[SamKnause]

30. Video and movies

I grew up watching;

Have Gun Will Travel
Gunsmoke
Marshal Dillon
Bonanza
The Big Valley
Lawman
Cheyenne
Maverick
The Rifleman
Sugarfoot
Rawhide
Audie Murphy movies; (war movies)
John Wayne movies: (war movies and cowboy movies)
Do the children of today know the difference between TV, video games and reality ?

I do not own a gun, but believe and will defend the rights of others to do so.

Maybe addressing the pro war agenda would be a good place to start. The military has a big influence in glorifying violence.
Maybe addressing the escalating police violence in this country would be a good place to start.
Maybe addressing the miserable federal and private prison system in this country would be a good place to start.
Maybe addressing the pharmaceutical companies passing out pills like candy would be a good place to start.
Maybe addressing the continued failed 'war on drugs' would be a good place to start.
Maybe addressing the growing crises of poverty and joblessness would be a good place to start.
Maybe addressing the gang violence in our cities would be a good place to start.
Maybe reinstating the ban on assault weapons would be a good start and outlawing metal piercing bullets.
Maybe addressing our president's kill list and drone attacks the world over would be a good place to start.
Maybe addressing our failed health care system would be a good place to start.

[Ash_F]

40. Ironically, a lot of violent video games are very anti violence-as-a-means

A lot of them are highly critical of the military industrial complex, with a lot of sad Irony built in their story's. I wonder if Biden will consider talking about the government's own unironic Hoorahing game about killing people to get what you want (AKA America's Army)

Yes we do need to explore the cultural factors that may contribute to violent behavior.

[ButterflyBlood]

57. Very true. The last couple Call of Duty games were definitely anti-war

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

54. If he's presenting his recommendations to the Prez next Tuesday ...

... then he's already got the position papers written by his staff.

These meetings are just theater.