White House may consider funding for police in schools after Newtown

[DonViejo]

Source: WaPo

By Philip Rucker, Published: January 10

The Obama administration is considering funding many more police officers in public schools to secure campuses, a leading Democratic senator said, part of a broad gun violence agenda that is likely to include a ban on high-capacity ammunition clips and universal background checks.

The school safety initiative, one of several under consideration, would make federal dollars available to schools that want to hire police officers and install surveillance equipment, although it is not nearly as far-ranging as the National Rifle Association’s proposal for armed guards in every U.S. school.

The idea is gaining currency among some Democratic lawmakers, who see it as a potential area of common ground with Republicans who otherwise oppose stricter restrictions on firearms. Sen. Barbara Boxer, a liberal Democrat from California, said she presented the plan to Vice President Biden and that he was “very, very interested” and may include it in the policy recommendations he makes to President Obama.

“If a school district wants to have a community policing presence, I think it’s very important they have it,” Boxer said in an interview Thursday. “If they want uniformed officers, they can do it. If they want plainclothed officers, they can do it.”

-snip-


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-considers-funding-for-police-in-schools-after-newtown/2013/01/10/e0044e58-5b3f-11e2-9fa9-5fbdc9530eb9_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines

[onehandle]

1. Pointless window dressing. Ban mass murder weapons, gun shows, and allow manufactures to be sued. nt

[Dash87]

13. Every politician is afraid to touch guns.

Instead we shifted to blaming violent movies, video games, etc.

They just had a violent video game buy-back here (it was a flop), but guns? A-ok of course.

[BeyondGeography]

2. A colossal waste of money

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

[Stuart G]

4. Yes...won't stop anything. window dressing...nt

[woodsprite]

8. It will stop some things and it may prevent other situations from escalating.

Yesterday an 8th grader threw punches at a female teacher in the lunch room at my son's middle school. The police officer got in between them and pinned the kid to the ground until he could be escorted to his office and the parents called. The teacher received cuts to the face from her glasses. Without the resource officer being right there (he's stationed in or near the cafeteria at lunch), she could have been hurt much worse. My son had a 'front row seat' to the encounter and said that no one - even the three other teachers that were there as monitors, were attempting to pull the kid off.

At the local high school when my daughter attended, there had been teachers being on the receiving ends of knife fights, punching fights, etc. All could have been worse if they had not had the police in the building.

[gussmith]

16. Reassess Who You Hire

Sounds like you need new management in that hood.

[Stuart G]

20. I was wrong with my statement. You are correct......

Sometimes an armed highly trained person, who knows the school, can indeed stop some situations. And, as you say, stop others from excalating. Your example is worth thinking about. Especially, in the lunch room. Hell, I recall lunchroom duty at a high school..
I did it as a teacher. and you are right..

[global1]

3. Think About It From A Jobs Creation & Economic Stimulus Perspective....

and throw in the 'common ground' aspect mentioned in the OP as a bonus. It also puts the NRA in a bit of a box. I think if this goes along with a comprehensive approach like VP Biden is talking about - I can support it.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

17. Me too. My only complaint was that it was going to be done in lieu of gun control...

It's not really that big of a pill to swallow if they pass Biden's recommendations.

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. It *is* in lieu of gun control- the WH doesn't have the votes, and they know it

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Needless legislation and policy to demonstrate that the Administration

can do "something" to prevent another unlikely tragedy.

[another_liberal]

6. It might help a little . . .

It might help a little to have more police on hand in schools; however, what is really needed is a strict program of mental health examinations for all who wish to own a high-powered hand gun or rifle of any kind. This plan should cover all current as well as future owners of such weapons and it should include mandatory renewal, just like a driver's license. Police officers are already required to undergo a test of this kind before they are cleared to use their firearms.

It is far past time to enforce this kind of mandatory requirement nation-wide. It will be a lengthy and difficult process to get all who currently own such firearms to undergo the sanity tests but it is absolutely necessary, and if the people demand it . . .

[ThatPoetGuy]

7. Pay for it with a tax on guns and ammo.

Gun nuts are asking us all to take our money and hire people to protect us from gun nuts.

Let the gun nuts pay for it.

[former9thward]

22. There already is a federal tax on guns and ammo.

Just take that money and use it for security.

[JoePhilly]

43. Increase it ...

My daughter's elementary school has a main building, 8 trailers, and a playground.

One armed guard will not work. I did the math, even if he is centrally located, he can't get to the edges of the property fast enough.

A killer can part 10 feet from the trailers, easily force entry, and then wipe out between 2-4 classes before the guard, assuming he is centrally located, can arrive.

So my daughter's school needs at least 4 armed guards to have any chance of stopping anything.

My other daughter's middle school is worse. It has three floors and the arrangement of classes is such that a gunman can take out 2-3 classes of kids before a guard on the floor could do jack.

But hey ... I'm all for Bigger Government!!!

[ThatPoetGuy]

58. It would need to raise a lot more revenue.

Do you really believe the paltry federal taxes on guns and ammo come anywhere close to the billions of dollars it would cost to protect our schoolkids from guns and ammo? Taxes on guns, ammo, cigars, cigarettes, tobacco, and alcohol, added together, come to about 20bn, and guns and ammo aren't anywhere near the top revenue-raisers on that list.

If gun owners want our nation to pursue a childish, irrational policy on guns, and then want to hire thousands of trained and armed officials to protect schoolchildren from the consequences of their childishness, then they need to pony up. Which would require an enormous tax hike on guns and ammo.

Americans shouldn't have to pay a penny to accommodate the dreams of destructive fantasists.

[former9thward]

60. About 1/3 of schools already have armed security.

They don't seem to find it so expensive. In Chicago they have 2000 police and armed security in their school every day. They aren't complaining about the cost. If I don't like the waste in the Defense budget can I demand that only those who do want the wars pay for it? Doesn't work that way.

[gkhouston]

9. But dog forbid we hire more teachers.

[NorthCarolina]

10. A very disturbing development

but, unfortunately, par for the course now days it seems. Ironic that the powerful gun lobby will help to push us ever farther into the realm of a police state.

[Kelvin Mace]

11. The police state solidifies

Warrantless surveillance, endless detention without trial, summary assassination, and now schools turned into prisons.

[Shivering Jemmy]

30. Oh sweet Jesus...

[Fire Walk With Me]

55. Everything mentioned is real. Do internet searches.

"Warrantless surveillance, endless detention without trial, summary assassination, and now schools turned into prisons."

1. FISA, the warrantless wiretapping bill was this month extended another five years. This month there was an article regarding hidden microphones being installed on public buses to monitor conversation.
2. The NDAA section 1021 provides for indefinite detention without trial or representation. Chris Hedges and others sued the government over it and won. It was struck down as unConstitutional. The government had that unConstitutional ruling overturned, and this month it was signed for another year.
3. Drones are being used to kill militants and even suspected militants including US citizens in over five countries. More than a hundred children have been killed (hopefully by mistake).
4. Schools turned into prisons? Yes. Perhaps the children can leave, but the atmosphere will be of violence, of potential violence, of authority, of fear, of threat, of being unsafe at all times. And if any with guns abuse that power ("nothing can go wrong, that's never happened&quot ...Sheriff Arpaio in AZ has hired felons as his "posse" to patrol schools with weapons. Again, what can possibly go wrong? I don't want to see heavily-armed "Anti-terrorism" militarized police on subways and buses; I'd be frightened and upset, and I'm an adult. What will this do to children? A generation needing therapy? Or will this become a new Milgram experiment, a Stockholm syndrome?

[Coyote_Tan]

34. Yeah...

Aside from the defining characteristic of a prison, the ability to leave at will or have someone come get you... Nailed it...

[Kelvin Mace]

36. Let's see,

armed guards, surveillance cameras, metal detectors, frequent roll calls, lock downs, drug sweeps, no privacy, strip searches, the constant threat of violence from fellow inmates and the guards.

No, not like a prison at all, because you can go home at some point. Then you come back the next day...

[Dash87]

12. Do anything. Just don't touch my precioussssssss

[alfredo]

14. I bet the Reps will want to cut funding for education or SS to pay for the cops.

[gussmith]

15. NO

No, No, No. What a slippery slope with no return. Another TSP mess that will live on ad infinitum. Let's try some reasonable restrictions on guns. Why do we always go to the extreme?

[LiberalEsque01]

18. GOOD

Much better than thinking banning something will stop it. We have armed guards at banks and even jewelry stores, why not where kids are? I guess some think they're less important or that all guns can magically be made to disappear. Or knives, or whatever a killer wants to do.

I'm glad to see them do this kind of stuff. Trying to make criminals out of the 99.5%+ of gun owners that never cause problems is NOT any answer.

[frylock]

23. kids are also at chuck e. cheeze..

and parks, playgrounds, arcades, etc. do you propose an armed presence at those locations also? where else do we position these armed guards? as stated upthread, the idiots wetting their pants over a police state are doing everything they can to ensure that we reach that point, all so they can keep their 30 rd mags.

[and-justice-for-all]

19. We already have Offices in our high schools..

have for sometime.

[Smilo]

21. This is not the answer,

nor will it help in future.

Hey, but it sounds good.

And the choice will come down to having either a police officer in the hall or teacher in the classroom? We don't have enough teachers as it is.

[Comrade Grumpy]

24. That's not the society I aspire to live in.

[karpool]

25. What's the point.

Next shooting will be at a stadium at a sporting event or some other such.

[Fresh_Start]

26. as long as they fund that from taxes on guns and ammo and body armor

okay. In fact, there are several billion dollars of medical costs related to gun violence which should also be laden on gun owners.
But taking money from some other part of the budget, no go.

[libdem4life]

37. Require gun insurance...low for small mayhem guns...way high for large mayhem guns.

Much easier, more scientific, actuarially based ... insure them, or hide them.

From my post on Wednesday...

113. Tax, register, re-register on a regular basis, insure, VIN number heat-stamped, background check, attend a training class...one for proper gun usage and storage, and a second to include children if there are any in the home.

Heavy fines and/or legal consequences and likely confiscation if the gun is involved in any crime and a Police Report taken and filed. The owner, if not reported stolen, will be charged. Insurance is required for each firearm, cost dependent on capacity to kill...single shot, vs multiple shot war machines. Payouts to victim/s and for property damage incurred and must carry an insurance card, along with registration card to show, if needed. No weapon or ammunition that is meant primarily for multiple-shot murder or war...NONE.

As to those currently in distribution, strict laws regarding their updated registration, taxation, and storage. Added legal ramifications for a domestic/family crime...intended or unintended such as a child accidentally killing or wounding someone, the owner of the gun is liable...see insurance...and other injured may also sue for damages. Situations involving guns and alcohol or drugs...legal or illegal...heavier penalties. Un-registered and un-insured guns are confiscated.

Other than some inconveniences, in theory, and taking responsibility for the entire gun community...like automobile drivers are...any law-abiding gun/s owner should not object too much to this.

The insurance factor is spreading the costs across the base...like car or health insurance. The taxpayer...a majority of whom do not own guns, ultimately pay for it through higher healthcare insurance rates, damage to public property, survivor's crisis, public legal ramifications or the businesses whose livelihood are disturbed or destroyed. Insurer's who feel they were hurt by Obamacare, can go after this market...apparently it is huge.

It is ludicrous to task the mental health industry ...counseling and temporary mental hospital stays and pharmeceuticals...with this responsibility as there is nothing significant it can do, as an industry. Family Law folk, especially, understand the desired task is to stabilize the person or defuse the interaction, and return them home. Neither can anyone be arrested "before they actually do something".

Earlier posts have described the nigh impossibility of declaring someone "mentally ill" or "incapacitated" and the tremendous financial and public legal costs. And one can't just go around and label someone mentally unfit for the hell of it...there are slander laws that prevent that unless a judge has declared it legally. The money is better spent in gun management.

And vowing to "do something" about the society of poverty and racism and video games and violent movies et al, is doomed. Any positive movement in those areas would be helpful, but again, the gun community must come to terms with the fact that with rights come responsibilities.

Unless one is as bat shit crazy as Alex Jones and fear FEMA or and UN or the government-is-coming-after-us-Waco-types , there are only two main reasons I can see to own weaponry...one for in the home self-protection, and the other for hunting or target ranges, etc.

Good luck, Gabby and Mark. Your work will raise our consciousness.

[bowens43]

27. WTF is wrong with Obama?

[Shivering Jemmy]

31. On this, nothing

It's part of several needed actions

[rosesaylavee]

28. Swell. How about roaming bands of militia to guard them while they play after school and anywhere

else kids appear in public.

We'd all sleep better wouldn't we?

What could go wrong?

[Shivering Jemmy]

33. I prefer police

[Flashmann]

29. consider funding for police in schools

Then how long until the thugs term that policy an "entitlement",and start working to cut the funding for it?.....For the good of the country,doncha know....Wreckless spending...The usual hogwash......

[Doctor_J]

35. See how all these guns make us "free"

[libdem4life]

38. Smoking is now not cool. From "You've come a long way, Baby," to "You smell like an ashtray."

Needs to happen with guns. Let the NRA join the tobacco executives in cultural irrelevance. Cigarettes were not banned...just heavily taxed and Caution...these can kill you" printed on each package, Public Service Announcements made and the MSM got on board. It made smoking look like the stench it is, also ridiculously expensive that many of us saw the light.

But many still smoke...although under seriously controlled circumstances.

It can be done with guns. Make the insurance so high to save taxpayers the job of burying the dead and the cost of cleaning up the O K Corral after Saturday Night.

Folks will still have guns...if not for the right reason, they'll still pay for the privilege and the carnage.

[Politicub]

42. I like your thinking

If gun manufacturers continue cranking out instruments of violence they should contribute to a fund, just like tobacco companies, that seeks to neuter gun culture.

[libdem4life]

45. Contributions will never, ever happen. The price of cigarettes skyrocketed because of taxation

and funded miscellaneous educational bandaid-type projects. Even with life or health insurance, if one is a non-smoker, often lower rates apply.

Accountability and responsibility and financial liability is what will ultimately bring the wacko (non lawful or clueless) gun culture to it's proverbial knees. I see requiring insurance, fees, registration and re-registration, accompanied by heavy penalties for non-compliance, as the only certain way, in my lifetime, to effect adequate gun management. Expose enough of the Alex Jones and LaPierre batshit crazy NRA type and begin/continue to daily report gun violence in the news, and I believe that the majority of gun owners will go along.

If I or anyone in my family were injured or killed by a misguided or ignorant or even unintended gun owner, a major lawsuit would be filed...and likely won. The "deep pockets" come in with the manufacturers, dealers, etc.

That's why I also believe we'll never see any "mental health boost" out of this circus. Liability. You can only lock up only so many and require the public to bear the full cost of their lifetime incarceration...especially a teenager. There are no mental health facilities (lockups) to speak of...they just go to prison...and they are full.

[Politicub]

46. Never say never. Obama's winning of the presidency convinced me that anything is possible as long as

you stay committed to the cause.

We the people can do great things once we put our mind to it.

The time for excuses is over.

[libdem4life]

47. Corrected. Yes. All is possible, I believe that, as well. Thanks.

[obama2terms]

39. That isn't a bad idea

But we don't need to ignore the biggest factors which is assault weapons, as well as the hoops people have to jump through to get their mentally ill family member the help they need. My HS has 3 really nice cops, and they do make us feel safer ( especially after Newtown), but with that said, the WH doesn't need to shy away from the other things we need to change.

[Stuart G]

40. Having a policeman in the schools is not really a bad idea..after thought..

A security person, who is at the school, and gets to know the students is a plus. There will always be problems in schools and
an extra security person may be able to solve some. Having said that, I do not think such a person will stop shootings. This is unlikely, in my opinion, but he/she may help with fights, some stealing, getting help for some students who need it ..etc.

[Politicub]

41. Another reason why I don't have kids and don't plan to

I feel for my nieces and nephews because school sounds like hell. If you're not getting tested and ranked, you will get frisked as you enter the building while worrying if an armed and underpaid security guard will become unhinged.

I don't support this initiative, and hope it doesn't see the light of day. It legitimizes the NRA's insanity when we finally have the organization on the defensive.

The answer is never more guns.

[Gormy Cuss]

44. Dear White House: Hell NO.

Dear Senator Boxer: I'm a Democrat in your state and I vote.

[libdem4life]

49. Me, too. The liability of the school district is great...and getting even greater. If a bullying

suit can be successfully litigated and all the other myriad issues districts now deal with (and the financial fallout), imagine what will happen when, especially in the wake of the Newtown tragedy, schools "do nothing".

As a taxpayer, a former teacher and a mother ... politics and whatever aside, I'd rather pay for some extra security than the lawsuits that will emerge...mark my words...from a child being injured or killed. Screw PC politics, in a manner of speaking, employing a few vets at their local school isn't the end of the civilized world as we know it.

[Fire Walk With Me]

48. Teacher talks down student who'd opened fire on classmates. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED, not "more guns".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022171010

[libdem4life]

50. Tell the family of the principal and teachers at Sandy Hook.

Pretty sure those teachers never had a chance to practice their "use your words" skills. And as I recall, he had a "small" gun, not a couple of war machines. So...we'll now need to require Gun Etiquette with Miss Manners as required professional continuing education training to teach 1st graders.

Fail. You'll see an exodus of quality teachers, early retirements, etc. Probably is already happening.

[Fire Walk With Me]

52. Ah, a "More guns" DUer. Hi, how are you. I'm for a sane society with less violence.

[libdem4life]

57. Actually, no. That's a Red Herring and it's getting old. Glad you mentioned it.

Here's the deal. We can actually do two positive actions as a society at once without pampering or killing any of our "sacred cows" ... no guns...all guns...BS. We are an imminently intelligent bunch, but as they say on an airline, put on the airline mask first to better help the smaller ones.

In this case the "airline mask" puts the adults in charge without dithering due to PC considerations...get security guards in schools that want or need them. Then, deal with the civilized and capable management of what has turned into an uncivilized war zone and out-of-control proliferation, the AK or whatevers. I don't have to know the details to know the misuse and confusion and fear and the resulting death is against our progress as humans.

There must be a cut-off between what we consider civilized and what is not. Protection...and I don't care whether it is your home, your family, your car, your shopping trips to the mall, and yes, your children at school ... Protection is a basic human right and I've come to understand, unfortunately, for our society now, that includes weapons. And it means different things to different people at different times in their lives.

No, not multiple weapons of war/destruction, as a society we will decide how to define them as such, and we have the increasing will to get/melt down the worst of the bunch first. But it damn sure isn't going to start by telling the elementary schools and their dedicated workers that "they're on their own" while we "sort it out". No way.

And you can check my posts on how I feel about guns, how to manage them, how to sift out the appropriate uses from the paranoid group...and both groups have their paranoias. Typical weapons for protection and for hunting should be legal, yet managed and accounted for/insured for liability, etc. 99.9% of the gun-owning population aren't going to mow down a group of anyone. Even the "criminals" will be limited not only as to the array of weaponry illegally available to them illegally begins to be whittled down, but also limited as to the number of "glory" shots they can get off before getting killed or suicided.

It's a conversation that will continue.

We can delimit the weapons of war and reduce the 300 million and start the "plowshares conversation", while still protecting our kids. Nor will that protection, in any way, shape or kind, start any massive purchase of guns...there are ample already out there and security companies have enough inventory to manage a couple per elementary school.

I have other ideas, as well, on how to charge this whole mess to the weaponry industry...not on the backs of the taxpayer, or their kids. Hell, we can't afford to pay the teachers a decent wage. The least we can do is protect them.

As Liberals and Progressives, or anyone else for that matter, let us not come down on the side draws a non-arbitrary line in the sand ... and that on the wrong side of our kids.

[samsingh]

51. from taxes on guns

[graham4anything]

53. I am fine with federal/state/local lawenforcement. NOT Paul Blart Zimmerman's.

[Politicalboi]

54. The NRA should help to pay for this terrible idea

Plus the even worse idea of a plainclothed cop who may be mistaken for the shooter. I can see schools having quicker access to police, and even have them stroll the campus from time to time. But schools shouldn't have police like a prison.

[LynnTTT]

56. A waste of money

Picture the average day at the average school. Kids walking up and buses arriving over a 30 minute period. Supplies and workers coming in the back doors to the kitchen. High schoolers and teachers parking in lots on two sides of the building(s).
Maybe a separate gym or auditorium. All through the day kids leave the classrooms for recess or gym. They run all over open areas, or play in various fields. At dismissal kids pile on 20 buses lined up around a semi-circular driveway.
Then 500 kids spread across playing fields for inter mural games and other sports. Where is that single guard going to stand? What about his lunchtime, sick days, bathroom breaks?
A huge waste of money and its just pandering. Unless its a bargaining chip in which case it's brilliant

[Socal31]

59. I live grew up in one of the most "safe" cities and county in the country.

We had an officer on campus at all times, mostly to detect kids under the influence or break up fights.

There are positive and negative things about it. I don't think it should be considered negative just because some nuts suggested it, it was already going on. Of course the below is based on the sincerity, fairness, and skill of the officer assigned to the school.

Positive:

Teaches students to trust police, not "fear" them. From a young age, at-risk children are force-fed anti-police messages from music, family members, media, etc.

Negative:

If officer is there to just be the bad guy, with no positive interaction, it could have the opposite outcome. These officers should be screened thoroughly (even more so than just being hired as a cop).

If someone was going to try something stupid like a shooting at the school, a uniformed officer is as useful as the Maginot Line, or a gated community.