Irked by abortion bill, Va. senator adds rectal exams for men

[kpete]

Irked by abortion bill, Va. senator adds rectal exams for men
Posted to: Health Politico State Government Virginia Login or register to post comments


The Roanoke Times
© January 30, 2012
By Michael Sluss

RICHMOND

The state Senate this afternoon gave preliminary approval for legislation that would require pregnant women to undergo ultrasound imaging before an abortion, but not before rejecting a Democratic senator’s attempt to add what she described as “a little gender equity” to the bill.

Democrat Janet Howell of Fairfax County proposed requiring men to undergo a rectal exam and a cardiac stress test before getting prescriptions for erectile dysfunction drugs such as Viagra.

“This is a matter of basic fairness,” Howell said.

Senate Bill 484 would require a pregnant woman to undergo ultrasound imaging to determine the gestational age of the fetus, and be given an opportunity to view the ultrasound image, before having an abortion. The proposed law also requires the abortion provider to keep a printed copy of the ultrasound image in the patient’s file.

http://hamptonroads.com/2012/01/irked-abortion-bill-va-senator-adds-rectal-exams-men

[AzDar]

1. K & Fookin' R!

[just1voice]

2. Only in Virginia, the homophobic, 70% against gay marriage state

would they try to pass a law requiring something to be stuck up a man's anus. I live in Virginia, the repukes here are a special breed of morons.

[DocMac]

7. I'm here in VA. too.

Doing a contract here near Glenn Allen.

I don't mingle much, but the times I have showed me what people think here.

It looks like 70/30 on the repub side. But a good many won't say....so +/- 10 is my opinion.

[spicegal]

61. I live in Glen Allen, and your 70/30 assessment on the repub side is about accurate, for this

this part of the county. District 7, which is Eric Cantor country, includes Glen Allen. Eric Cantor lives in Glen Allen. I am disturbed by what the GOP is doing in our legislature, to say the least. It was predictable because they're doing the same thing in every state where they've been given power. People are fooled by McDonnell's seemingly moderate exterior. I don't trust him, or any of the Republicans.

[DocMac]

87. Actually, i'm near Parham and Three Chopt Rd.

But everyone claims this is Glen Allen. I was watching the local news one day, and that McDonnell dude was at some homeless shelter. He was pretending to give a shit and he wouldn't get near those people. It was pretty obvious that it was painful for him to be there, and not from the built up concern for those less fortunate.

Now Eric Cantor... I hope the Democratic party has a way to challenge this guy here. Everytime he gets a chance to talk is a barf moment for me. I feel like putting "Can't Cantor" signs on everyone's lawn. lol

Other than that, it's not a bad place.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

16. It was a Democrat who proposed the anal probe.

I think the idea was to make this bill -which is designed to make an abortion as unpleasent as possible for the woman- unpalatable to the Republiclowns. Fairfax County is one of the bluest areas of the state, and most of the small number of Democrats in the State House come from either there or Tidewater (Va Beach/Newport News)

[southernyankeebelle]

22. I think it is a great idea. I am still laughing and I was trying to read this to my husband.

Hilarious. Since men want to tell women what to do with their bodies then I think a bill should come before them suggestion any man having more then one child out of wedlock should have a vasectomy. Funny thing I never hear any men agreeing with me on this issue. Hmmmmm interesting. Tell you what to those men who want to tell women what to do with our bodies you mind your business and we will mind ours.

[Nihil]

65. Agree with the OP and with your suggestion too!

> any man having more then one child out of wedlock should have a vasectomy.

Soon get a bit of real equality into the situation!

Strange how "religious convictions" get in the way of providing emergency contraception
but never in the way of providing the means for the medically unfit to have intercourse
in the first place ...

Maybe a future rider for a bill would include the requirement for the spouse of
the applicant for ED treatment to be present ... just to ensure that there's no
encouraging the men to spread any "wild oats" after the marriage cools down ...

[southernyankeebelle]

70. I can agree with that.

[Tumbulu]

73. Good idea and also to post a bond

a sort of liability insurance bond .....

[southernyankeebelle]

75. Now we are talking. Good idea.

[just1voice]

37. Yes, I think you're correct

That is the only way to talk to republiclowns in Virginia for sure, to make whatever it is they think they're talking about seem ridiculous. Most of the time it still doesn't work but it's all that can be done when any kind of interaction with repukes is necessary.

[boppers]

58. "abortion as unpleasent as possible"

A photograph isn't going to do shit.

There is nothing pleasant about abortion.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

80. Are we going to quibble over semantics here?

Nobody said getting an abortion was pleasant. But the idea of making a woman look at the sonogram before she can have one is clearly intended to make her feel worse about it.

BTW- Who's paying for these sonograms? (rhetorical question)

[saras]

91. Speak for yourself - a fair number of women (especially in Europe) find it trivial, and rightly so.

Not pleasant, not unpleasant, not life-changing, just another little bump on the road of life.

Obviously this isn't true for everyone, but it trivializes and disrespects their experience to pretend that everyone is as worked up about it emotionally as the fundamentalists are, and that it always has to be a soul-wrenching philosophical transition for everyone. For a lot of people, it's nowhere near as life-changing as plastic surgery, which isn't necessarily saying much for plastic surgery.

[boppers]

93. "Not pleasant"

That was my point.

People don't have an abortion because it's an enjoyable activity.

Basically, I'm trying to push back at the mindset that medical procedures are being done for personal entertainment... but your mention of plastic surgery gives me pause, and makes me think of things I'd rather not.

[66 dmhlt]

63. True - but looks like it gets Bipartisan support from Mitt Rmoney ...

[cstanleytech]

67. The problem is that they had to vote it down because

clearly some of them wouldnt be able to get their Viagra because the probe couldnt be conducted due to there being a blockage inside their anus.........that blockage being their heads.

[TahitiNut]

76. To be fair ...

... those folks get their digital prostate exam every time they pick their nose.

[Blue_Tires]

66. +1

[HuskiesHowls]

3. "Gender Equity"---a great idea!!

Gotta make sure that prostate is healthy!! While we're at it, maybe a needle biopsy to make sure there's no cancer, too!! Gotta be careful, ya' know......

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Love it.

Wish we could bring this senator to Kansas.

[greymattermom]

30. me too

someone should mention this to former Senator Sam. He's weird about sex.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. He's weird about lots of stuff

LOL

[eyewall]

5. Creative legislative revenge

LOL!

[DocMac]

6. That is a good one!

Sometimes you just have to pin people against the wall and let em know they are a bit crazy.

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. That is hilarious.

Way to go Sen Howell.

[Turbineguy]

9. And for the men Senators a special deal.

A rectal exam with a splintery damage control plug. But then again, they'd probably like that.

[chowder66]

10. Funny and she should add

that they should also have to watch a film or take a class in female anatomy including menstrual cycles, birthing, exams, menopause, etc. They should be very detailed and explicit, especially when discussing menstruation.....please.

[arcane1]

21. And as a public service, a film about the clitoris

[usrname]

23. Now, what would a male republican

have any need for knowledge about the clitoris?

They have their wide stance and that's enough.

[boppers]

59. "Isn't that one of those commie countries?" eom

[pauljulian]

89. Actually no...

I believe they think it's one of them furrin' Roman senators from that history class they slept through.

[Gormy Cuss]

86. What does Seinfeld's girlfriend have to do with it????

[KatyaR]

11. Some Repuke here in Oklahoma

wants to make it a felony to knowingly infect someone with HPV. Maybe men should also had AIDS and HPV tests before they can get a script for penis pills.

[truthisfreedom]

17. Approximately 80% of sexually active adults in the US have HPV.

How completely ludicrous.

[Control-Z]

52. Which is the ludicrous part?

That so many are infected in the US? Or that men should be tested before receiving their boner pills? There's an awfully good chance of being denied, isn't there?

[boppers]

60. That it targets men.

Should women be tested for HPV before getting birth control, so we're not "enabling" "diseased people having sex"?

[Skittles]

68. DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS

with men it sounds ludicrous - with women, well, you know, our bodies are up for public review

[WillyT]

12. Go Senator Howell !!!

[Louisiana1976]

13. K&R!

[Sgent]

14. Since these aren't always medically neccessary

I imagine it will come back to bite her if it actually passes -- since Medicare nor any insurance company will cover it in many cases, and a $400-$500 (or more) bill will not make for happy people.

Unexplained impotence is worrying, and there are a lot of tests that possibly should be run including those in the bill, plus testosterone levels, blood sugar, cholesterol and possibly others. Ferreting out the reason for unexplained impotence can be expensive -- and necessary for the health of the patient.

However, explained impotence may not need any testing. For instance a known poorly controlled diabetic has no need to undergo additional testing -- and insurance / Medicare won't pay for it.

[catrose]

15. Who's paying for the sonogram?

And is it medically necessary? The GOP doesn't care.

[MADem]

27. I think a lot of male doctors hand that shit out like candy.

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, a bit o'lead for the old pencil, wot wot! Ask and Ye Shall Receive. Of course, those doctors get rewarded for their prescription writing skills by some Big Pharma corporations.

Since the women aren't getting much of their care paid for, EITHER, particularly in the family planning end of things, I believe her point was that what's sauce for the goose, and all that....didn't you read the article? I think a doctor sticking his paw up someone's ass in the context of a regular office visit is far less "costly" than subjecting a woman to a sonogram.

Pro-abortion rights advocates consider the ultrasound provision a tactic to add cost and inconvenience to the process with the goal of getting women to change their minds.

Why is it "medically necessary" to have a sonogram and be pushed towards viewing it? Answer--it's NOT. Why is that sonogram "placed in the patient's permanent record" like it's a failing grade in algebra or something? I think the end result is that this kind of shit will push women to seek services out-of-state, at least until sanity can be restored in VA.

Why are legislators even acting as doctors in the first place? Because they want to be morally intrusive and violate the privacy rights of people seeking abortion services in VA.

I think this legislator is doing a fine job of making a valid point, in a legislative fashion--basically, this is a lawmaking way of saying "Shove it." Good for her. It's a pity her measure didn't pass.

Virginia is getting more hateful by the year.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

40. It's to add cost and inconvenience and to shame....

...women who want abortions. And as far as why legislators are acting as doctors - it's all about control.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Sonograms aren't medically necessary either

[Sgent]

38. I agree

Its just that when most people get a stress test or prostate exam, they expect that Medicare / Insurance will cover it. I've never seen abortion coverage in insurance (which IMHO should change).

[caseymoz]

55. Actually, I heard sonograms are required in Britain

prior to abortion. However, it's far less a harassment, since there, the woman seeking the abortion doesn't pay for the sonogram required. Whereas here, if the woman didn't pay for the sonogram, it wouldn't be considered effective for suppressing abortion, and so anti-choice legislators wouldn't give a shit about it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. They are still not medically necessary

Women got pregnant for thousands of years without having sonograms. They've only been around for about 30 years.

[caseymoz]

78. While people also got spinal surgery without MRI's

And orthopedic surgery without X-rays. And dental surgery without anesthetic. Your title point may be well taken, but for reasons other than your support statement, which is nonsense. My conjecture is that the sonogram might help prevent complications from an abortion in something like one in ten-thousand cases. So, literally speaking, it's only medically necessary in rare cases, you just don't know which cases those are until you've done the sonogram.

In the US, where you can't afford hundreds of dollars for the sonogram, a 1/10,000 chance of extra complications is the lesser of two evils, meaning, not medically necessary since the cost outweighs the risk. Whereas in Britain, where the public pays for medicine, and it's cheaper, the risk outweighs the cost. It's a different environment.

Also in Britain, it's the medical authorities, not the politicians who decided to require sonograms. Apparently, they feel that preventing the rare risk is worth the added public expenditure. Whereas in the US, our legislators feel that making women pay more, despite what doctors deem necessary, will discourage women from seeking abortions, and they are right.

And that's the difference between honor and dishonor, between public service and a diabolical scheme.

[PotatoChip]

94. A couple of things--

Biggest thing first:

Ultrasounds are NOT required unilaterally for abortions in the UK. The reason(s) that they may be done are either A)to determine the gestation date (if it's in question), B) if a 'medical' as (opposed to 'surgical') abortion is to be performed -OR- C) to rule out Ectopic pregnancies. Keep in mind that most US abortions (other then the day-after-pill) are 'surgical'.

BTW, these things are probably already being done here in the US anyway (for the very same reasons medically speaking) since most women see their doctors upon learning of their pregnancies; whether or not they choose to abort. That, or the abortion clinic they visit feels these tests are necessary.

What makes the (legislated) ultrasound requirement different here is that A)it's being mandated for medically unnecessary reasons; a woman's doctor or abortion clinic would have already ordered one otherwise. B) Many of these mandates require vaginal probes; very intrusive and NOT normal ultrasound procedure. C) They are 'forcing' women to view them. NONE of this is the case in the UK.


Second, you made a point that really ought to be clarified regarding the cost. You said:

Whereas in Britain, where the public pays for medicine, and it's cheaper, the risk outweighs the cost. It's a different environment.

Also in Britain, it's the medical authorities, not the politicians who decided to require sonograms. Apparently, they feel that preventing the rare risk is worth the added public expenditure. Whereas in the US, our legislators feel that making women pay more, despite what doctors deem necessary, will discourage women from seeking abortions, and they are right.


I'm not disagreeing w/the majority of what you said here. In fact, you may well be aware of, and agree w/this too-- However IMHO it's very important to note that abortions (with or without ultrasounds) are FAR less expensive for the citizens of Britain than having a woman carry an unplanned pregnancy to full term. True for us too actually, despite our very different health care system (and the cost of unnecessary ultrasounds passed on to women).

Here is some info on abortions in the UK: Added emphasis is mine.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Abortion/Pages/How-is-it-performed.aspx

The doctor or nurse will take your medical history to make sure that the type of abortion you are offered is suitable for you. You will be given a blood test to check your blood group and to see whether you are anaemic. You should also be tested for sexually transmitted infections (STIs), and may be given antibiotics to stop an infection from occurring after the abortion.

There are also a number of things that you may require before having an abortion. These include:

•an ultrasound scan (if there is any doubt about how many weeks pregnant you are)
•a vaginal examination
•a cervical smear test (if appropriate)
•information and advice about which method of contraception you should use after the abortion
Finally, before having the abortion, you will be given a consent form to sign.

[Ilsa]

97. You heard it or you know it?

Is the woman required to watch it or listen to fetal tones as required in these backwards states?

[caseymoz]

99. I said "I heard it" so that means I heard it.

Or rather read it on this site (actually DU2) when I was arguing about how ultrasounds are an onerous and obstructionist requirement. Someone piped in that, well, they were already required in Britain. Since their medical system is better in all ways, especially ob-gyn I didn't have reason to doubt it.

I'm thinking they don't require the woman to watch it and listen to fetal tones, which is hardly medically necessary. The ultrasound in Britain would be for medical, not moralistic reasons. Only American politicians are so dickish and perverted about reproductive choice.

[Liberty Belle]

44. I'm sure her point was to make sure this would NOT pass

[KT2000]

18. Love this and

the Senator too!!
I am so sick of these male anti-abortion politicians using women's bodies as their own property.

[RainDog]

19. k&r n/t

[rocktivity]

20. Honorary Special Achievement DUzy for State Senator Howell!

After all, we can certainly reduce the abortion rate if we attack it from the front lines -- preventing conception altogether!


rocktivity

[WillyT]

29. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

[MADem]

24. Good for Janet Howell--what a charmingly legislative way of saying

"Up yours!"

[dmr]

50. +1

[Overseas]

25. Yes please! Hoping for more tack ons like this one.

Maybe even STD tests and a witness statement that they need that there Viagra.

[bvar22]

26. A goose for The Gander!!!

[font size=1]My bad.[/font]

[MADem]

47. Whaddaya mean, bad? That was the best one-liner thus far! nt

[calimary]

57. DUzy!

[ZombieHorde]

28. Awesome. nt

[Lost-in-FL]

31. Brilliant move!

I hope a Democrat catches up with this measure and proceeds to make it a law in her/his state. It actually makes a lot of sense.

Let send her some $$Love in contributions to her campaign and to acknowledge her idea.

[lib2DaBone]

34. Good on her....

[JBoy]

35. Boom! Fuckin' right.

[muntrv]

36. Let's add a brain scan for fundies.

[awoke_in_2003]

49. doesn't insurance...

already pay for too many unnecessary tests

[Quantess]

39. But she was unsuccessful, am I reading that correctly?

[MADem]

48. Unfortunately, that is the case. nt

[Control-Z]

53. But the message wasn't lost.

We all need to keep sending messages like this every chance we get.

[MADem]

54. No, it certainly wasn't. It was witty and direct. nt

[uppityperson]

79. I love that you have the Trust Women thing as your icon

and RIP Geri

[TexasPaganDem]

41. Fookin' awesome

Heartily agree that a prostate check, stress test, et al. proving disfunction before ED drugs are prescribed. Maybe a penile plethysmograph to gauge severity of the ED is in order as well.

[Liberty Belle]

42. Brilliant! Too bad it didn't get adopted. MCPs are alive and well.

That's male chauvinist pigs, for those of you too young to remember the women's liberation movement.

[Scairp]

43. Backwards again

Further and further back we go in women's basic health rights. It makes me sick.

[Skittles]

45. LOVE this gal

[mike_c]

46. GOP = evil fucks

'Scuse my French, if you please. But you have to stay up extra late to figure out new ways to torment women. Evil fucks, especially the self righteous religious ones.

[mfcorey1]

51. It's about time some one counteracted the rethuglican foolishness. Yes! Yes! Yes! nt

[calimary]

56. NOW you're talking! Sauce for the gander as well as the goose.

I've long believed that female legislators near and far should start doing exactly this. Wanna legislate the ovaries and uterus? Game on! Let's start targeting the scrotum as well, then. Let the men see how it feels when some external busy-body wants to start tinkering with THEIR private parts.

[Vinca]

64. I love this senator!!!!!!!!!!

[hifiguy]

69. Perfect!

Bwahahahahahah!

[VWolf]

71. F'king brilliant!!!

[wordpix]

72. once again, the party of "get gov. out of my business" delves right into women's private parts

Sticking their noses into vaginas, uteruses, fallopian tubes and adding administrative costs onto gov, insurance and medical businesses ---it's all "small government" for the repuklicans.

[glowing]

74. Check out the paper's article and their positioning on wording

Pro-abortion rights advocates consider the ultrasound provision a tactic to add cost and inconvenience to the process with the goal of getting women to change their minds.

Notice that they call this "Pro-Abortion right's advocates"... Like people who support women's choice to make their own medical decisions with their own Dr. are all about "killing babies", rather than actually people who support women's rights, and their rights to CHOOSE what they wish to do with their own bodies. Biased much? Pushing propaganda much? I'm really surprised to see pro-abortion.... It's normally very PC in news articles that aren't places like Drudge Report... and most of the time it's written as Pro-Choice advocates

AND why is it that the legislation is deciding Medical procedures? A Dr. has to engage in many years of study and practice before even having their medical license. And in order to practice, they must maintain abide by the ascribed practices of a medical board, or risk losing their right to practice medicine. AND they have to pay for medical malpractice insurance. What gives the legislation the right to tell a Dr. to do unnecessary procedures for their patients, risking their certifications and malpractice insurance for "over-treating" a patient.

I love that the Senator added to the extra requirements to acquiring Viagra (or whatever ED med they are prescribed by their Dr.) ....Which by the way, is covered by insurance co's and in most instances.. unlike abortions for women.

[uppityperson]

81. It should be Pro Abortion-rights, if they need to use that phrase. Pro-rights, not pro-abortion.

And I agree with what you write.

[catbyte]

77. ROFLMAO

[mahatmakanejeeves]

82. With pleasure!

Hint: To be announced enthusiastically, as Corporal Klinger would have said it.

[Arkana]

83. OK, who laughed a little bit?

Be honest.



















yeah, I laughed.

[WCGreen]

84. Hell if I was in the legislature with Sen Howell, I would co-sponsor this in a heartbeat...

[patrice]

85. Way to go, Janet! TAKE it to them!!

Even if it doesn't work, at least they'll be shown as the fools and liars they are.

[Arkansas Granny]

88. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[hamsterjill]

90. Now this is a lady who knows what it's all about!

Good for her. Hope to see her in the white house one of these days!

[sandyj999]

92. Seems Fair To Me. n/t

[Brigid]

95. Before I clicked on this thread . . .

I bet with myself that the Senator in question was a woman. I was right.

BTW, this whole thread is in desperate need of a DUzy!

[astarfitter]

96. WOW = MOM upside down!!!!!!

Please forgive me for poking my nose where it realy does'nt belong. This ISSUES of the TIMES, this DEBATE and indifference concerniing WHEN life begins. This TOPIC of BLOGGING, today is RETALIATION. IF a women must do this, than a man must do this. Please I am not trying to sound sharp when I say this but that is how it is going to sound and feel. IF YOU ALL WOULD STOP FORNICATING, and practicing ADULTRY. This disease you have would eventually die off. Then all you would be left with is the RAPIST'S. What would you do then? With your self? IF YOU STOPED SINNING SEXUALLY, what % of abortions would stop?

[Ilsa]

98. Sinning sexually?

Did you know that married women have abortions too? And not because they were adulterous. I know someone who aborted, early, because her husband, the main breadwinner, lost his job. They didn't have money or insurance for a fourth mouth to feed (Pre-COBRA days, as if that matters). They saw it as their only option.

[marklee]

101. Spam deleted by cyberswede (MIR Team)