Gray Wolves No Longer Need Federal Protection, Obama Administration Says

[IDemo]

Source: New York Times

Gray wolves, whose packs now prowl through hundreds of square miles of the northern Rockies and the forests along the Great Lakes, need no more federal protection to prevent their extinction, the Obama administration announced on Friday.

The Fish and Wildlife Service unveiled a proposal to eliminate the remaining endangered-species restrictions that had anticipated the spread of these existing packs into areas like California and the southern Rockies, where there are few, if any, wolves now.

The only wolf populations to have protection going forward would be Mexican wolves in southern Arizona and New Mexico.

The announcement by Dan Ashe, the director of the Fish and Wildlife Service, marked the imminent end of 50 years of controversial federal efforts to bring back a predator that once roamed the continent, but had been all but exterminated in the United States by the mid-20th century.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/science/earth/gray-wolves-no-longer-need-federal-protection-obama-administration-says.html?_r=0

[yardwork]

1. This makes me mad, and I've told the Democratic Party this when they call.

[PatrynXX]

5. okay now Obama has made me mad

Is he trying to prove he's pro gun. we already know this. Really sad. and mad...

[PatrynXX]

7. Wonder how much Ted Nugent bribed Obama for that one

Probably doing a fucking happy dance in his bathroom didnt send obama a rash email but pretty much he's lost my support for awhile. if ever again, don't much care what happens in 2014 now because if we aren't protecting animals that need protecting we are fucked either way.

[wordpix]

44. count me as one really angry conservationist and friend of wildlife, too

Over the years my admiration for O has dwindled to very little.

[Crow73]

2. Who profits from this?

Where is the money trail?
Who is getting paid for what?

[valerief]

3. Yep, nothing happens unless some rich guy is getting richer from it. nt

[Crow73]

4. That is how reailty works.

[rhett o rick]

6. I hear Sarah Palin is starting a wolf killing from helicopter company. nm

[PatrynXX]

9. Hopefully Ashley Judd is around

with grappling hooks. (what for. ) find the back wings and if sarah gets too close to the ground make like a bird and throw the hooks in that general direction ( be like the guy who shot the stripper in the neck) oh I was just joking. didn't mean to hit the copter but she came down on my suddenly

[alp227]

14. I think ranchers and hunters.

Ranchers want to protect livestock.

Hunters want to protect deer so THEY can kill/eat the deer.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/11/01/wolves-please-visit-canada-this-weekend/

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/09/maybe-every-wolf-should-have-a-name/

[wordpix]

45. rich hunters and guides, rich ranchers who lease federal land nearly for free....

and so on.

[Sunlei]

50. 'game hunter' near yellowstone put sheep out there then got his 2 free wolf permits

when of course all his unguarded sheep got killed.

This is the same 'mighty hunter' who killed the yellowstone collared wolf. On top of that baiting tactic, the same 'mighty hunter' piles up dead sheep and baits in more wolves to kill.

So these hunters are 'training' wolves to go for sheep. go for the dead piles.

And they 'game' the permit to kill 'livestock killer wolves' gov.system.

[Freddie Stubbs]

8. Great news!

[BrotherIvan]

10. I anxiously await the blue links that tell us

Wolves are bad, there are too many of them!

Wolves eat children and lambs!

Wolves hate black people!

George Bush didn't care about wolves!

Would you rather have Sarah Palin? She kills wolves too!

Wolves don't live in the real world!

Just like unicorns and ponies, no one ever promised you wolves!!

[onpatrol98]

31. ???

Wolves hate black people???

Really???

After all the heartache and chaos on DU lately we managed to bring in a snark about black people in a story about wolves.

Priceless.

[freshwest]

38. And Precious.

[boilerbabe]

40. no he is mocking the obama defenders who are always claiming that

everybody who criticizes him is racist.

[tblue]

62. I don't think any offense was intended.

Just hyperbole.

[24601]

78. I thought they liked all people - especially with lemon pepper....

[cascadiance]

11. Maybe Obama's telegraphing that the "Grey Wolves" in Turkey don't need "protection" any more...

... either

The "Grey Wolves" in Turkey are an ultranationalist right wing paramilitary group that now perhaps are a "problem" there with the latest unrest that's happening this last week.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story33.html

Though it is also good to see that the real gray wolves of the wild are making a comeback now.

[pitbullgirl1965]

12. So upsetting! eom

[totodeinhere]

13. Is this good or bad news? If wolf populations really have recovered

and the viability of the species in the continental USA is no longer endangered then that's good news indeed. But somehow the cynical side of me is not so sure. I think if it were up to me I would not have removed the protections.

[tardybar]

15. wolves

This is bad the ranchers will start shooting them again.

[life long demo]

20. Too late, that's been going on for the last 2 years in

Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and some others. It's been a free fire zone on wolves.

[grantcart]

25. Reallly?

My understanding is that it controlled by rules, licenses and season restrictions.

Pages and pages of rules and restrictions.

How is that a free fire zone?

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/docs/rules/bgWolf.pdf

[pipoman]

41. Yep..

states have done quite well managing wildlife populations for nearly a century..

[Eleanors38]

52. What? Grantcart and Pipoman bringing facts to a DU hate fest?

How dare they!

[WinkyDink]

16. Annie, get yer gun!

[Skittles]

17. cue the cowards to come out shooting

[Botany]

18. We have learned so little .....

... the ecology of an area does much better w/the macro carnivores in place.

Since wolves are social animals and have homes aka dens killing them is simple
if you have a high powered rifle w/a scope and if you know where the den or their
hunting grounds are in a given plot of land.

I have hunted for years but I see nothing gained in the killing of a wolf .... if
you have livestock you can be paid for any losses and if the wolf is still a problem
you can shoot it.

BTW the # of non provoked attacks by a healthy wolf on humans in America is zero.

[life long demo]

23. Absolutely beautiful picture

Thanks for the beauty among my tears.

[neverforget]

19. Sweet Jesus. I'm at a loss for words........

[life long demo]

21. This is so sad and so wrong

I can't believe they have thrown the wolves off. I am so angry with our President and his administration. Well to be honest, I've been angry with our President about many things. Shit!

[rug]

22. They'll be on the terrorist target list before the year is out.

[Doremus]

24. Everyday I'm hating this plutocracy a bit more.

[villager]

26. Well, we no longer need 4th Amendment protection either, according to this same

...administration

Wrong on both counts.

[Scootaloo]

27. Unfortunately this is the way the ESA works

It wasn't really written with ecology in mind. The ESA doesn't seek to protect ecological webs, it doesn't look to rebuild what's been eroded or destroyed by humans and introduced organisms. It doesn't try to reestablish biodiversity.

Rather, it seeks to create a living museum, to ensure the existence of this species or that species. It decides, "okay, we have enough for now" and strips protections, as if the forces that caused the endangerment just vanished, or as if the species can make it without the ecological infrastructure.

Basically the ESA works a lot more like a birdwatching list, or one of those checklists you get at a zoo. It's an obsolete perspective on the matter, one that largely ignores the complexity of the ecosystem in favor of framing one particular plant or animal as a "success story"

[pipoman]

48. No, they operate through blanket re-establishment

then allow states to manage locally when the populations are no longer endangered. The US Fish and Wildlife Service and state wildlife agencies have, overall, done a great job re-establishing and maintaining wildlife.

[grantcart]

28. I am not surprised to find so many knee jerk reactions without any effort to find out the facts.

Peer review study in Wyoming, for example, shows that as the wolf population has significantly increased the elk population has significantly declined:



http://www.morris.umn.edu/academic/math/Ma4901/Sp2011/Final/NicoleNyberg-final.pdf

see page 15-16 for graphs showing dramatic decline (50%) of elk populations.

[flvegan]

29. Maybe humans could stop hunting them (the elk)?

Nah, easier to just kill the wolves. Nothing should be allowed to keep humans from the enjoyment of killing animals.

[grantcart]

33. I think you have the idea of population balance reversed.

Without the wolves we would have to increase the human culling of elves in Wyoming to keep them from over populating which damages their environment and in the long run damages a larger number of elk.

Unrestrained wolf population has led to a reduction of elk population from 20,000 to 10,000 so your two sentences become nonsense.

For the record I am against gun ownership. I personally have never hunted after my father told me how shooting one deer made him sick to his stomach and really don't have an interest in fishing for the same reason. However to ignore the basic system of natural predators and to allow the wolf to over populate is as stupid as over hunting them, and yes homo sapiens are the natural predator of the wolf in the natural ecosystem, so a regulated cull is in fact humane.

[flvegan]

34. Yes, the human culling of elves.

A cull is never humane.

It seems that the wolf population isn't unrestrained. It also seems the concern is based in the desire to kill other animals in competition with the wolf.

Let me know when you have good stats to back all that up. Thanks.

[grantcart]

59. "a cull is never humane"

This could be in competition for one of the stupidest comments ever made at DU, and that is a rear honor.

You want proof that it is an idiotic statement?

Google "science" and "culling" and presto:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=uk-official-defends-badger-cull


Where humans have significantly impacted on the use of an ecosystem and the natural predator balance has been thrown out of balance unrestricted population growth can allow population increases that can completely destroy the ecosystem and endanger the future population of that species.

This is really 101 biology. Reasonable hunting can help maintain natural populations that have been upset by other human activities.

I am not a supporter of hunters but the science is clear and I am a big supporter of scientists.


Every year I interview, as a part of my job, about 2 dozen government scientists including those that work for the Fish and Game.

Under Bush they received instructions from above to reach certain 'scientific' conclusions that would help developers, etc. It was not unusual for them to react emotionally and in tears. Now that is all gone. There is no interference in their job. The real idea of the OP is that the Obama administration is somehow involving itself in policy so that it can harm wolf populations is bull shit, rather strong odious uninformed bullshit.

Up thread I posted a peer review scientific study that showed that wolf populations were directly, statistically involved in the reduction of elk population from 20,000 to 10,000.

You have supplied no science on behalf of your absurd opinions so now, please supply a link to a source that would support the idiotic statement that "a cull is never humane".

[flvegan]

68. Thank you for the compliment.

You should look up the word "proof" while you're at it.

I like the badger cull example. Unless I'm wrong, that was about the spread of TB from badgers to cattle (oh no! not cattle! humans eat them!). Shit, that's gotta be an economic problem for cattle folks (those that profit from them).

If I understand correctly, a person can get TB from cattle if an infected cow sneezes on them, the person drinks unprocessed milk from them or is too fucking stupid to handle infected meat from them properly. Is that right, scientist? Any data on the number of abattoir workers that were infected with TB? Seems they'd be most likely.

So again, cull the badgers so some idiot doesn't get TB.

Yeah, that's humane.

But hey, I'm sure as shit glad you get the pleasure of interviewing some folks. Especially those unbiased ladies and gents from "Fish and Game"

Quick, someone call Webster's with a new example of using "humane" in a sentence: "We're awful sorry we fucked your entire ecosystem up, but we humans are gonna fix it all humane like by killing the shit outta you. Yee haw!"

[grantcart]

73. Again you missed the point of the Badger Cull completely.

The point is not on the facts but that it was discussed by scientists. It is one tool that scientists consider to remedy situations where ecosystems are not in balance.

A scientific discussion is beyond your comprehension because you use such non scientific modalities as "Culls are never humane".


I have no problems with the scientists at Fish and Game, but it shows that you do not understand their mission but react instead out of some deep anger that you channel into biased and irrational statements.


I suspect you do not realize how much personal anger you share with your replies.


For the uninformed I will share the work of the last F/W scientist I had a chance to work with, at the S Bono Reserve in El Centro working on endangered species:
http://www.fws.gov/saltonsea/Endangered%20Species.html


One of the things that these 'evil' Fish and Wildlife folks do is to grow crops without pesticides so that Arctic Migrating birds can eat their crops and not bother local farmers (and eat potentially harmful pesticides)

Croplands
Fields. (USFWS)
Wildlife management at the Sonny Bono Salton Sea NWR involves an intensive farming program to provide suitable forage for over 30,000 wintering geese and other migratory birds and wildlife. Croplands comprise of 869 acres on the Refuge, with many fields cooperatively farmed by local farmers.

Crops planted on Refuge land includes alfalfa, wheat, rye grass, milo, millet, and sudan grass. With use restrictions on the use of certain pesticides on the Refuge, infestations of whiteflies, and the booming prices of sudan grass, many cooperative farmers have switched from planting alfalfa to sudan grass over the years. Sudan grass grows like a weed in the Imperial Valley and requires little to no use of pesticides

[LTX]

90. Fact free outrage,

with an ironically generous helping of smug superiority. Always good for the soul.

[Bay Boy]

60. I want to know more about hunting 'elves'...

..how many are allowed during the season? They look harmless but I've heard they can be dangerous if cornered.

[tblue]

63. Please don't hunt the elves!!!!!

Santa will have to hire humans, and they'll prolly be Chinese! That can't be good for our economy.

Stay the eff away from the elves!!! Munchkins and leprechauns too.

[Redford]

93. I fucking hate elves

Kill all the bastards.

[pipoman]

42. Exactly and well said

I too don't like to hunt myself..I do hunt deer on my FIL farm ground simply for the purpose of culling..he keeps track of the populations and has absolutely no desire to kill them off, just control the populations. Some years the small group who hunt his ground kills 15 or 20 deer, other years only he and I hunt and sometimes nobody hunts them all depending on the local populations. Contrary to popular lore, most land owners aren't interested in exterminating any wildlife species, only keeping them in check. This process results in healthier populations. A great recent example of the negative effect of over populated species is the "chronic wasting disease" spread from domestic to wild deer populations threatening wide spread, interstate death. My state increased permits available to hunters from a maximum of 2 per person statewide to as high as 6 in some zones and the spread was controlled..haven't heard of a case for a few years now..deer populations are healthy and thriving..

[flvegan]

72. Thank us for killing you. Thanks. n/t

Get it now?

[pipoman]

74. Overpopulation of wildlife ultimately devastates the populations..

Get it now?

People who haven't seen the devastating effects of over population pretend it doesn't exist. Those of us who have seen it know it is incredibly sad..for instance, coyotes with no hair trying to survive freezing temperatures...the mange problem was exacerbated by overpopulation which resulted in massive reductions of populations in some areas. Further without the revenue from hunting & fishing licenses, duck stamps, and hunting/fishing groups (ducks unlimited, wild turkey federation, etc) there would be far less public grounds, and wildlife species proliferation. The vast numbers of those pretending hunting/fishing is bad, don't put their money where their mouth is, nor do they ever actually spend any time in the wild..

[CreekDog]

85. there is no overpopulation of wolves, your argument is baseless

your argument, to be clearer, is a lie.

wolf populations are so far down or nonexistent compared to historic distribution and populations, that for you to bring up overpopulation in this thread is ignorant and misleading.

big surprise.

[pipoman]

86. Maybe you should have someone who can read help you out with this subthread, eh?

LOL...

Oh, and wolves aren't endangered any longer either, so states will do a fine job managing populations just as they do with other species..

[CreekDog]

87. Since when did a "proposal" mean something has happened already?

and I will not be lectured to by a conservative on DU.

especially one that argues that something which is proposed has already happened.

[pipoman]

88. Resorting to insults is the meme of the irrelevant..

LOL

[CreekDog]

91. before my post you said I couldn't read

pipoman (10,501 posts)

86. Maybe you should have someone who can read help you out with this subthread, eh?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=505874

you insulted me by saying i couldn't read well before your complaint about my statement (which I didn't insult you, I just said you were a conservative here, which you are)

[pipoman]

92. And your post #85 called me ignorant and

a liar. There was however a modicum of substance in that post, so I responded with a similar amount of snark and some substance, which you responded to with insults alone...the sign of irrelevance..

As for my being a conservative, post examples on some topics...no, you use that shit as an attempt to hide truth and diminish those whom you disagree with..I've been here 8 years and have over 10k posts. You meant it as an insult, I took it as an insult, and frankly you should acknowledge that or who's the liar?

[CreekDog]

95. because on this topic you are

should i call you super smart, and encourage you to post more when you are posting that wolves are not endangered when that is their status at the moment?

you were the one who complained about insults, while delivering them.

i didn't complain about the insult, i complained that you couldn't take them while you delivered them.

instead of saying you're a conservative, i'll just point out that you're wrong --but almost always in the conservative direction.

[pipoman]

96. "On this topic you are"

Really? Trusting scientists at the US Fish and Wildlife Service, and state wildlife offices is conservative? Wolves aren't endangered..they aren't going anywhere. They have been proven beneficial in re-forestation projects, they are beautiful, and nobody, including most land owners, want the populations to go away. The populations are growing and will require localized management by scientists who can analyze local populations.

“Our analysis suggests the gray wolf no longer faces the threat of extinction and no longer requires the protection of the Endangered Species Act,” Dan Ashe, the wildlife agency’s director, said during a telephone news conference.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-07/national/39807988_1_species-protections-gray-wolves-gray-wolf

This is a good thing.

Contrary to your speculation, modern game management has dramatically improved the stability of species and resulted in unprecedented recovery of species. Much of the research and land maintenance revenue is generated by hunting and fishing. Thirty years ago in my state there were no elk or wild turkeys. Reintroduction programs funded entirely with hunting license revenues have brought around 200 elk and literally thousands of turkeys back. The reintroduction of turkeys was only on public grounds across the state in the mid-1980's by 1990 there were limited hunts available through wildlife and parks because of the success of the reintroduced populations. The revenues from the license sales funded expanded reintroduction. Today every tree row, creek bed, and wooded area in the entire state harbors a flock or more of turkeys. The increased turkey population has made the coyote population stronger, increased bobcat populations by 5 times, and in the last 5 years the existence of mountain lions in the state have been documented. Hunting and fishing revenues pay landowners to sublet their farm land for public access and let it grow into wildlife habitat. I live with pheasants, turkeys, coyotes and deer in my yard..the realities of wildlife are different than perception.

[CreekDog]

84. Grantcart talks about the "culling of elves"

after doing that, says the other poster wrote something "stupid".

oh? how's the "culling of elves" going Grantcart?

[East Coast Pirate]

30. Wolves eat elks.

Wolves bad. Obama good.

Got it.

[grantcart]

32. How about using science to determine optimum population levels and allow for

appropriate culling, like we do with other large mammal populations.

I strongly applaud the reintroduction of wolves into the appropriate ecosystem however once re-established their population will need to be kept in control by their natural predator, which in this case is humans.

Its not that wolves eat elk makes them bad but that over population of elk has reduced the elk population by 50% and by bringing in a responsible culling a more balanced approach better population control of both elk and wolves can be achieved.

But why let science stand in the way of another cheap shot against Obama.

Rather use 3 word sentences.

More words bad.

Can't chew gum and think same time.

[Brewinblue]

35. WTF?????

Nothing you have said makes any sense. There is no logical connection between your premises and your conclusions. Pure word salad a la Sarah Palin.

[East Coast Pirate]

39. Great parody of the Cato Institute.

[CreekDog]

64. don't lecture us on science when you just talked about the controlling and culling wolf populations

don't even.



lecturing us on this?

get the topic right if you want to be treated with respect when talking about it.

[CreekDog]

79. looks like you failed as an environmentalist

a lot of people think you are polite and kind here at DU.

that reputation only survives because wolves can't type.

[CreekDog]

36. so we can't let a native predator eat it's native prey?

i'm trying to figure that one out.

is nature getting it wrong?

[pipoman]

46. Nobody said that..

localized overpopulation of any species isn't a good thing..overpopulation of wolves results in underpopulation of other species. Prior to game management, species would experienced great cyclical swings..with game management populations have been healthier, epidemics reduced, and species improved.

[CreekDog]

65. please explain the overpopulation of wolves on this map

please do.

and please stop with the Sarah Palin talking points you just spouted, albeit, with no grammatical or spelling errors, they are just as reliable as hers.

[grantcart]

81. homo sapiens are the native predator of wolves.

[CreekDog]

82. and you are telling us with a straight face that of the two, wolves are too numerous?

or are potentially too numerous, compared to humans?

or that this is feasible enough in any time frame soon?

are you for real guy?

we won already. if humans kill more wolves, you are furthering the imbalance that humans have wrought on wolf populations which still has them needing federal protection at this moment.

too effing soon.

but for the environmentalists here, you've shown them you are not a friend to the cause.

[wordpix]

49. let's get the facts straight in talking about population: It's humans who are overpopulating

Not wolves and not elk

[Eleanors38]

58. All species tend to over populate. Do you have a point?

[CreekDog]

66. you mean like whales, elephants, wolves, condors, etc.?

they all tend to overpopulate?

[Eleanors38]

70. If they are not over hunted (as the Japanese are doing),

Whales recover and expand well, though some are declining due to falling fishing stocks as a result of global warming. Elephants are threatened by international poaching rings, even as regulated sport hunting is being eliminated by the same governments corrupted by poachers.

Governments and powerful poaching rings, climate change and over development threaten many species even as others over-populate due to poor or lack of management. Examples of chronic overpopulation of game animals are white tail deer and snow geese. And we know about feral hogs. And these species are widely hunted.

Wolves expand rapidly as well. I support that, and I support regulated hunting when it is appropriate. Same with bears. Black bears are increasing in Texas & Florida, but are not yet hunted. That may change in the near future.

[Aquavit]

71. +1 n/t

[NickB79]

75. Good. The elk herds were doing serious damage

Without predators for so long, they were wiping out riparian habitats and aspen groves. With the reintroduction of wolves, the land is regenerating.

[pipoman]

77. This is true..

there is a balance which needs to occur. The balance in millennia gone by has been peaks and valleys in species numbers..numbers rise of prey species rise during valleys in the populations of predators and valley during the peaks of predators numbers. The idea of modern game management is to control wildlife populations for stable numbers without dramatic peaks and valleys. Many species have been wiped out over the years during valley times. Another function of modern game management is to eliminate species extinctions which have been going on forever. Another function of modern game management is habitat protection and restoration, another cause of valleys and extinction. No, I trust the scientists who are studying this far more than the armchair activists who haven't a clue..

[notundecided]

80. Both Wyoming & Montana Elk Numbers

exceed F&G management goals.....so the idea that wolves are decimating elk herds is laughable. Success rate in last years elk season in Wyoming among best ever.

[treestar]

76. Of course

I knew that before looking. There's some process by which these things are decided. The usual Glenn Greenwaldian response: we don't like how a process turned out:

Mr. Greenwald does not do that here, or indeed anywhere: If he does not like the output of a process, he simply lashes out personally at whatever Democrat is most politically prominent regardless of their actual systemic roles.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/08/1192256/-The-Final-Word-on-Glenn-Greenwald

Really good article there in that it describes the handling of issues here - he's where they get their "method."

[East Coast Pirate]

97. Felicity Barringer is Glenn Greenwald's nom de plume?

[Kablooie]

37. That means we can get Gray Wolf Tacos soon! Hooray!

It will make up for the loss of the delicious Lion Tacos that were discontinued recently.

[pipoman]

43. The Feds manage wildlife. States micro-manage wildlife.

Most state wildlife agencies have done a great job managing wildlife populations through controlled hunts for nearly a century. My state wildlife agency has reintroduced species nurtured other species and keeps constant census of wildlife populations.

Like it or not, not everything Obama's administration does is sinister..

[Sunlei]

47. O.is a greenhorn & easy to snooker..it's chronic wasting disease (gamefarms) and clim. change

Years of our gov. lack of science/expert use to make wildlife and land decisions.

Game farms breed a lot of those trophy elk and deer, it's an industry where they feed processed feeds a lot and animals get out, escape (or 'culls' are probably even dumped out). chronic wasting disease is a prion disease like madcow and those processed feeds are made from render(dead animals). prions have been shown to survive the render process.

climate change aswell has changed many of the former grazing areas. there is just not enough open land, correct foods to support great herds. a lot of the deer/elk are not native species and hunters do not take the weak, skinny and sick like wolves do.

Our BLM and Hunters also fly helicopters around the public lands in the dead of winter for their studies/hunting and wild horse round-ups. In many records you can see herds of deer, elk run in the winter..wildlife should not run like that in the winter. That runs off their winter reserves.

"CWD can reduce the growth and size of wild deer and elk populations in areas where the prevalence is high, and is of increasing concern for wildlife managers across North America. The disease was long thought to be limited in the wild to a relatively small endemic area in northeastern Colorado, southeastern Wyoming and southwestern Nebraska, but has recently been found in several new areas across the North American continent. The disease also has been diagnosed in commercial game farms in several states and provinces.""

chronic wasting disease and elk

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=chronic+wasting+disease+and+elk&oq=chronic+wasting+disease+and+elk&gs_l=hp.12..0i30j0i8i30l3.98461.98461.2.101859.1.1.0.0.0.0.435.435.4-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.16.psy-ab.pelkIfTntDE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.aWM&fp=467e174930821fde&biw=946&bih=451

[Eleanors38]

54. There are now thousands of elk in Kentucky. How did they get there?

Extirpated years ago by unregulated market hunting, they have been re-established in viable numbers by sport hunters and outdoors people.

Yet another ecological success story brought to you by hunters.

BTW, CWD occurs in the wild without the prompting of man. It's called over population.

[Sunlei]

56. no, chronic wasting disease is a prion disease and elk are a native species.

CWD is getting worse spreading to other states. If you notice the hunting community recomends hunters test before they eat. They aren't sure CWD will spread to humans similar to the 'other' prion disease, mad cow.

Here's a bit about elk and the DNA studies done on that species. Sure Kentucky has a lot of open grasslands and brush woods..deer and elk must love all that food. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk

[Eleanors38]

57. Thanks for the link..

I am aware elk are native; the trick is getting them re-established in areas from which they were extirpated. This is being effectively done by hunting organizations. Further success can be seen with re-establishment of native turkey species. Mixed success with Texas Big Horn sheep and pronghorns. I supported and continue to support these efforts, including wolves.

I also support regulated sport hunting, including for wolves.

Diseases like CWD come about due to concentrations of a species over a small area. This can happen with game animal breeding, it can happen with "natural" concentrations, esp. On suburban landscapes and other "edge" habitat.
I often follow the advice of local wardens: kill female whitetails to reduce growth; young bucks to encourage growth in post-population crash conditions.

[CreekDog]

67. what kind of shot is used when hunting?

non-lead at least?

[Eleanors38]

69. Depends on the game and locale...

All waterfowl hunting requires non-toxic shot (no lead) in all 50 states. This has been the law for about 40 yrs.

Some federal and state hunting areas, forests and refuges require non-toxic shot no matter the game.

In most states non-toxic bullets are not required.
In some Cali. areas where the condor occurs, non-toxic bullets are required for deer, elk, hogs, etc, because the condor feeds on gut piles in which a lead fragment may be found. The condor is endangered. There is an eventual move toward non-toxic for all shotguns; rifle bullets will not follow as quickly as there is insufficient evidence that a round or two used in a deer hunt causes discernible problems to endangered wildlife.

[Jenoch]

51. Just because

wolves will nlw be managed at the state level does not mean there will be an open season on wolves with bounties like there was prior to the early/mid 70s.

We have 3,000 wolves in Minnesota. They aren't going anywhere.

[Faryn Balyncd]

53. Maybe we should turn the gray wolves loose on the criminals in charge of the NSA.

[QC]

55. Great NY Times article here --->

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/opinion/dont-forsake-the-gray-wolf.html?ref=opinion

[Leontius]

61. I think this is wrong but would welcome anyone showing that Im the one that's wrong.

and the wolves don't need protection.

[Franker65]

83. Anything to save money

Though it is positive that the population has grown so much in recent years. Hope this doesn't destroy all the good work.

[Sunlei]

89. DOI has never been gone over by this admin for fraud and waste!

It is a HUGE greenhorn mistake for this' first time dog owner' city- family, admin. to take DOI wildlife management depts 'at the good old boys word'

[panzerfaust]

94. For the life of me,

I cannot think of why Republicans do not support Obama - given how many of his actions since taking office (as opposed to the positions he articulated as a candidate) are in such close agreement with their values.



Oh dear. I was less than sycophantic about Obama - so I suppose this post will be hidden by the censors.