Supreme Court sides with Oklahoma in water fight

[Eugene]

Source: USA Today

Richard Wolf, USA TODAY 10:21 a.m. EDT June 13, 2013

WASHINGTON -- With water, water virtually everywhere, the Supreme Court ruled Thursday that thirsty Texas counties can't run a pipeline into Oklahoma for more drops to drink.

The decision, which upholds two lower court rulings, is a victory for states' rights over multistate water compacts that are common throughout the West. Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote the opinion for a unanimous court.

On one side of the dispute was Texas, accused of trying to divert water from Oklahoma under terms of a four-state compact that entitled each state to up to 25% of the water from a segment of the Red River. On the other was Oklahoma, asserting that Texas can get the water from within its borders or elsewhere.

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The battle is critical for nearly 2 million residents of the Dallas-Fort Worth area who get water from the Tarrant Regional Water District. The fast-growing area needs far more water than it has; it warns that if it goes dry, other areas reliant on such compacts could as well.

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Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/13/supreme-court-water-texas-oklahoma-compacts/2382849/

[WovenGems]

1. MINE!!

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a post by an Okie or Texan claiming they had a right to the water of the great lakes I could buy every citizen of the southwest a canteen.

[vinny9698]

2. Water conservation is the answer

Just look at Arizona, El Paso County, Texas. They do not have lawns with grass, they use native plants to decorate their front yards. Also they need to do what San Diego, CA does with its waste water, they recycle it, instead of treating then dumping it in the ocean.
We need to adapt to mother nature. Not try to waste resources just for cosmetics looks of our homes.

[TM99]

5. Obviously you have never been to Phoenix!

Tucson does indeed use more arid landscaping, however, Phoenix is rife with lawns with winter and summer grasses. There are also hundreds of golf courses with irrigation systems running constantly.

[Ash_F]

7. Isn't Phoenix a predominantly fundie town? /nt

[TM99]

9. It is considered a Red political zone,

though as far as fundies go, they are everywhere.

There are pockets of Blue in Tempe and Phoenix itself tends to elect Democratic mayors and such, but yes, it is rather conservative. It used to be a more 'libertarian' strain, now it is full on Tea Baggery.

[Ash_F]

12. That's what I thought

Funny how "conservatives" tend to be so wasteful.

[former9thward]

14. Phoenix is majority Democratic and votes Democratic.

The poster does not know what they are talking about.

[TM99]

16. Did the Phoenix metropolis vote

Red or Blue in the last few decades of national elections?

Locally, there are Democratic areas in the greater Phoenix metropolis, as I stated, Phoenix the city, Tempe, etc.

But no, the area as a whole is still far more Republican and conservative than Tucson or Flagstaff.

I have lived here 22 years - Tucson for 7 and Phoenix for 15.

[former9thward]

17. This is what you replied to: Isn't Phoenix a predominantly fundie town? /nt

The poster was asking about the city itself not the general area. The poster could not wait to smear the city, witness his/her next post. You enabled him/her.

[TM99]

19. Seriously?

Did you even read my reply?

They didn't state city itself, unless you magically read their mind. My parents said I lived in Phoenix to their friends when my address was in Scottsdale. It is a huge metropolis with lots of 'cities' attached as you must know.

But smearing....enabling....wow....it is like a soap opera for partisan hacks.

In general the Phoenix area is more conservative. Do you deny that?

[former9thward]

21. The poster specifically said "town".

They did not say "area" or "metro" or "county". You gave a general answer which allowed the poster to do a pre-loaded cut and paste smear. If you had given an accurate answer for the city the poster would have found a way around it and thrown the same dirt.

[TM99]

27. You want to know something -

I don't give a shit about this. I don't come into a thread on high alert to make sure that all of my written communication here is so perfect that I can anticipate in advanced via telepathy what a random person who replies to me might think or do.

This is the utter heights of partisan ridiculousness.

Grow up!

[1983law]

35. Must be a record when it came to backpedaling...

Love the excuses to your point.

[Mosby]

22. Phoenix votes Democratic

Maricopa County is red.

Get your facts straight.

Scottsdale, Mesa etc are cities, not suburbs.


Phoenix votes Democratic, but the surrounding area — and the county over all — has consistently leaned Republican. The technology boom in the Sun Belt has flooded the Phoenix area with white-collar workers, and areas like the East Valley, including Mesa and Gilbert, are dominated by establishment conservatives, who tend to be pro-business and more moderate on social issues.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/political-geography-arizona/

[TM99]

28. Yup that's what I said.

What the hell, people?

You do realize that when someone says they are from the Bay Area like my partner is from, that most assume San Francisco & yet specifically she was from San Leandro?

Phoenix - the overall area that most normal people refer to outside of AZ is a metropolis with multiple cities and suburbs. Some of these vote consistently Democratic - the City of Tempe & the City of Phoenix for example - and some of these vote consistently Republican - the City of Scottsdale & the City of Mesa for example. Overall, the area which is the dominant population focus of Maricopa County is conservative & votes consistently Republican hence it is RED!

There, is that perfectly stated enough for you pedantic nitpicks?

[TM99]

29. Thank you

I figured you did. But thank you for clarifying.

That was just weird!

[Ash_F]

31. They were more bothered by the conservatives bash. /nt

[Mosby]

34. The poster you're thanking just had his post hidden by a jury

It was a personal attack.

Here's the deal, The Valley of the Sun is different than a lot of metro areas around the US in that there are no "suburbs" per se. Phoenix is a city surrounded not by suburbs but by other cities, who often compete for land, water, business etc. Maybe you don't care but it's an important distinction for long time residents and natives like me.

[TM99]

36. Whatever.

I have lived here over 20 years. I am well aware of the issues. I am aware of the cities and the competing for land, water, business, etc.

For most people not from Arizona or Phoenix, all of the cities surrounding Phoenix are considered suburbs. For gods sake, do a damned Google search, and those cities pop up in lists from real estate sites to usa-atlas to city data to about.com. Do you know why? Because the definition of a suburb includes municipalities outside of a city so Scottsdale, while its own city, is still referred to as a suburb of Phoenix.

Please just drop it.

[former9thward]

30. RW troll?

Maybe you should alert the administrators with your visions.

[CokeMachine]

32. Come on man

If you disagree with someone you are automatically a RW Troll. It's the new normal here.

I lived in Tempe for a couple of years (ASU) and Phoenix was always Phoenix, The City across the river with tall buildings. I never thought I was from Phoenix.

Have a great weekend!!

[dbackjon]

13. And obviously you haven't been paying attention to what is happening here, either

Every year thousands of homes (if not more) are converting the lawns to xeriscaping - utilities offer big incentives to do so.

Arizona pioneered the use of reclaimed water - most of the golf courses are now watered with reclaimed sewage water. The master planned community I used to live in has the entire community on a central irrigation system using reclaimed water - every front yard, back yard, trees, etc are all on reclaimed water.

Waterless urinals are encouraged (required in some cities)

Water-banking (ground water recharge) is used to help restore aquifers and store water for drought times.


Arizona is also the only state that requires proof of 100-year water supply before new construction is allowed.

[TM99]

15. Read again please what I wrote.

I wrote that there is a big difference in water conservation between Tucson and Phoenix.

Yes, xeriscaping is now occuring - more so in Tucson where it was pioneered in the 1970's. Phoenicians still love their green lawns.

http://tucson13.nytimes-institute.com/2013/05/30/tucson-beats-phoenix-in-conserving-water/

http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2011/03/19/lawns-versus-growth-the-phoenix-dilemma/

Please read the above links.

And while the 100-year water supply law was put into effect, I believe in 2004, it is not working always as intended.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/08/02/20090802bucket-groundwater.html?nclick_check=1

Please read the above link.

So yes and no, Arizona is not doing all it can do sufficiently prepare for a dry, hot future when it comes to water conservation. Tuscon & Flagstaff do an admirable job, and Phoenix is still struggling.

I have lived here 22 years, and yes, I have been paying attention.

[dbackjon]

18. Did I say Phoenix is doing all it can?

No - a lot more work can be done.


But per capita water use is down in the Phoenix area.


The 100-year supply needs to be extended to the entire state - not just the urban areas as originally done (back in the 70's). But it is still the most comprehensive water supply law in the country. Far ahead of the curve.

This has allowed Arizona to avoid many of the water restrictions that other areas have faced.

And yes, it is disappointing that the REthugs in the AZ legislature have walked back some of the provisions - that definitely needs to be addressed.


Private water companies should not be allowed to exist - they are inefficient and wasteful.

[TM99]

20. Then before this miscommunication

gets out of hand. I didn't say you didn't. But you also suggested that I said they were doing nothing.

The facts are as they are. Tucson does better and has for some time. Phoenix has started to but it will take more.

And yes, the Republicans in the AZ Legislature are an anathema to this state. I am frankly shocked that Brewer's Medicaid expansion is going to pass. Thank the gods it will!

[Ash_F]

6. Well said.

Those native plant yards are way cooler anyway. It is ridiculous to waste water like that in this day and age. People need to grow up.

[RC]

3. Texas has all kinds of water off its coast.

They should be able to to distill that for at least some of their water needs. Of course the oil and dispersants in it may complicate matters a bit.

[Nihil]

33. Hey, they got rich from dumping all of that shit into the water ...

... so they have now got the money to pay for cleaning it up.

What? They've spent it? Well, that's sad for them isn't it?
They'll just have to cut down on their consumption a bit instead.

[OKNancy]

4. Good

Just because we have water now doesn't always mean it will be there for them.

[a kennedy]

8. yah, and keep your d*mn hands off the Great Lakes too.....

I know it's a serious business clean and drinkable water.....so glad the States that surround the Great Lakes do have an agreement of some sort to "save" the lakes in this Great Lakes Basin Compact. http://www.glc.org/about/glbc.html

[Shrike47]

10. Water rights are a huge issue in a lot of the country and it's just going to get worse.

Too many people, too many water features and lawns. I bet a lot of the people who demand water don't believe in global warming, either.

[Hestia]

11. About 25 years ago, Texas tried to take an Arkansas lake through eminent domain

as if they have the right to come in and take an entire lake for their water needs. That was shut down quickly.

When we lived in Dallas we were conservative as hell with the water. A lot of water rationing in the summertime.

Crazy thing - in the winter people didn't turn off their sprinkler systems, which watered the concrete sidewalks - it would ice over into the streets in winter causing wrecks. I think the cities started charging huge fines for the people who system watered the roads, as they should.

Happened in an apt. complex in Ark. too - there would be a 3" thick sheet of ice in the parking lot, clear everywhere else.

People are so wasteful with water.

[Champion Jack]

23. Texas has a lot of Fracking for nat gas going on

each Frack uses between 2.5 million and 7 million gallons of water.
Each well can be fracked up to 15 times.
That water can not be returned to the natural cycle as it's poisoned with a long list of "top secret" chemicals.
(Hydrochloric Acid, Quaternary Ammonium Chloride, Methanol, Naphthalene, 2,2-Dibromo-3-Nitrilopropionamide, Sulfuric Acid...)
just to name a few

Seems kid of foolish to waste perfectly good water like that

[happyslug]

24. Here is the actual opinion

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-889_5ie6.pdf

[NickB79]

25. If climate change models are correct, we'll be abandoning large portions of the Southwest

In the next 25-50 years back to the expanding deserts and scrublands.

Water shortages will only grow with time, as a growing population and shifting rainfall and snowfall patterns combine to run the cities dry. Conservation will only get you so far; once the fossil waters dry up (I'm looking at you, Ogalalla Aquifer) the pumps shut off for good.

Welcome to the 21st century. It's gonna be a bitch.