Syria regime used chemical weapons against rebels, US officials say
Source: Guardian
The US has said it will provide military support to the Syrian rebels after confirming it believed there was concrete evidence of limited nerve gas attacks by government forces against rebel groups.
The assessment, based on CIA tests on blood, urine and hair samples from dead or wounded rebel fighters, is the first time Washington has supported claims previously made by British and French intelligence services in recent weeks. Assad has repeatedly denied using any chemical weapons in the bitter civil war.
"Following a deliberative review, our intelligence community assesses that the Assad regime has used chemical weapons, including the nerve agent sarin, on a small scale against the opposition multiple times in the last year," said a White House statement.
"Our intelligence community has high confidence in that assessment given multiple, independent streams of information. The intelligence community estimates that 100 to 150 people have died from detected chemical weapons attacks in Syria to date; however, casualty data is likely incomplete. "
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/13/syria-chemical-weapons-us-confirm
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Autumn
(45,042 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Autumn
(45,042 posts)Hell yes it's bullshit.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Autumn
(45,042 posts)power point slide and hopefully he kept his little bottle. This damn country is broke (some people say) and those bottles and slides add up, not to mention another war to prevent that mushroom cloud.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)oh wait...
I'm not in favor of US involvement in Syria, but this is not remotely similar to Iraq.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)brought us this 'info'.
I'm afraid they've burned too many bridges for me to believe them.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)already flying against each other by both sides in Syria. SOMEBODY used Chemical weapons. The only question is who.
Again, your trust of the "intelligence community" is not needed. We know somebody used Chemical weapons there.
John2
(2,730 posts)ot was either the Syrian Army, who is beating the shit out of the rebels now, or the Al Nusra\Al Qaeda backed rebels, that kill 14 year old kids and use car bombs. You got an intelligence service with a track record of lying and secrecy, versus a Russian Government claiming a U.S. Terrorist was recently radicalized. So which do you believe? Do you believe the CIA covers things up and manufacture things?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)You guess it might have been the Syrian government which we know actually has massive stockpiles of chemical weapons and has bragged about them in the past?
I believe all groups of people cover things up and manufacture things and all groups of people tell the truth too.
I have yet to meet any group of people that lies about everything or is universally truthful.
I'm interested in seeing the evidence but it seems much more likely that the group we know had chemical weapons is the one that used them.
Regardless of the evidence, I will not be in favor of the intervention in Syria. It's a huge mistake.
John2
(2,730 posts)the foreign led rebels. It comes a time when preaching serves no purpose. Obama is digging his own hole. I have already decided whom is lying. It want do them any good, when all is said and done though. It will just kill a lot of innocent people to get there.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)1. Is the Syrian regime going to win?
2. Does the Syrian regime know they are going to win?
3. Is the Syrian regime confident enough that they are going to win that they would not implement these kinds of extreme measures?
I can actually answer all three of these for you. The answer is no.
Assad was sufficiently worried that he begged Hezbollah to come fight in Syria for him. That was an act of desperation. Once you get an organization like Hezbollah in, let's see you get them out. If you are a despot, it's great having a group like Hezbollah to do your bidding in other places. You don't want them in your own country. Hezbollah is going to be a long term force in the political life of both Lebanon and Syria now.
chb
(2 posts)1. Is the Syrian regime going to win?
The regime HAS won Qusayr back, and is winning in several other places. Remember Obama did not back the chemical tale until this Qusayr battle ended in favor of the syrian army.
2. Does the Syrian regime know they are going to win?
Do they « know », or just hope ? They've been stubbornly trying to win for two years, anyhow. With the help of their own army and people (sunnis & shias & alevis & christians & whatnot), it might work. Of course, Putin & Hezbollah help, too. Just in case democracy is still a goal in this (un)fairly destroyed environment, elections are scheduled - next year : NATO's poll gives a 70% score to the regime /10% to the "revolutionaries".
3. Is the Syrian regime confident enough that they are going to win that they would not implement these kinds of extreme measures?
They've known for months that chemical weapons are the west's « red line », i.e. the pretext we're looking for. Are they so stupid as to give their enemy the best reason to crush them freely ? On the other hand, the insurgents are eager to show WMDs, or even to use them. Several sources document that. Carla del Ponte included.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That's something just the rebels have done?
David__77
(23,367 posts)...
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)siligut
(12,272 posts)Do you remember something about plans for a global railroad going through those countries?
Catherina
(35,568 posts)what else do you remember about that?
siligut
(12,272 posts)Probably more, because I then read about a "global railroad" across that area. I thought I had posted about it on DU2, but an advanced search doesn't find it.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)siligut
(12,272 posts)Leading one to wonder which corporation had their plans made and sights set.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)What this really means is boots on the ground. Just like the Libya charade.
U.S. Military Proposal to Arm Rebels Includes No-Fly Zone in Syria
By JULIAN E. BARNES And ADAM ENTOUS
WASHINGTONA U.S. military proposal for arming Syrian rebels also calls for a limited no-fly zone inside Syria that would be enforced from Jordanian territory to protect Syrian refugees and rebels who would train there, according to U.S. officials.
Asked by the White House to develop options for Syria, military planners have said that creating an area to train and equip rebel forces would require keeping Syrian aircraft well away from the Jordanian border.
To do that, the military envisages creating a no-fly zone stretching up to 25 miles into Syria which would be enforced using aircraft flown from Jordanian bases and flying inside the kingdom, according to U.S. officials.
...
Proponents of the proposal say a no-fly zone could be imposed without a U.N. Security Council resolution, since the U.S. would not regularly enter Syrian airspace and wouldn't hold Syrian territory.
...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323734304578543761501124132.html
Yeah! More war! $50 million a day! I feel safer already! Thank you NSA! Thanks for using my money so wisely to identify all the targets to blow up!
Austerity! Tighten your belts! Austerity! We're all in this together! Austerity for you but tax cuts for the rich and the corporations! <Insert lip service to Martin Luther King here>
MisterP
(23,730 posts)it's always this way--secret war for 3 years, revelation, claim they're more moral than the Founding Fathers and Eisenhower put together, get into another war when this leads to a revolution/loss of building/etc.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)better.
I don't see how that's possible. This is a massive quagmire in the making.
Huge, HUGE mistake.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)chb
(2 posts)This sounds all too familiar. The Bush Administration did the exact same thing in Iraq. There was no evidence then, other than fabricated sexed-up intelligence. The same is true today.
Obamas famous red line on chemical weapons was never red, it was always pink.
This website [GlobalResearch], along with many others, has already shown its readers who is staging chemical weapons events in Syria and why. The evidence is very clear to see, yet the White House spin doctor and paid foreign policy hack Ben Rhodes has drafted the shape-shifting language for the White House in order to give the appearance legality in this case.
Will Obama sell truth and justice down the river Styx again? Its looks like that is exactly what is happening now, as the White House is desperate to meet their summer time-table to attack and over throw the government in the sovereign national of Syria.
read more on
http://www.globalresearch.ca/no-evidence-of-syria-wmds-and-still-a-call-for-war-again-obama-pushes-for-a-no-fly-zone/5339124
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)Complete Text of White House Statement on Chemical Weapons in Syria
Text of a statement by Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Benjamin J. Rhodes on the use of chemical weapons in Syria:
At the Presidents direction, the United States Government has been closely monitoring the potential use of chemical weapons within Syria. Following the assessment made by our intelligence community in April, the President directed the intelligence community to seek credible and corroborated information to build on that assessment and establish the facts with some degree of certainty. Today, we are providing an updated version of our assessment to Congress and to the public.
The Syrian governments refusal to grant access to the United Nations to investigate any and all credible allegations of chemical weapons use has prevented a comprehensive investigation as called for by the international community. The Assad regime could prove that its request for an investigation was not just a diversionary tactic by granting the UN fact finding mission immediate and unfettered access to conduct on-site investigations to help reveal the truth about chemical weapons use in Syria.
While pushing for a UN investigation, the United States has also been working urgently with our partners and allies as well as individuals inside Syria, including the Syrian opposition, to procure, share, and evaluate information associated with reports of chemical weapons use so that we can establish the facts and determine what took place.
Following a deliberative review, our intelligence community assesses that the Assad regime has used chemical weapons, including the nerve agent sarin, on a small scale against the opposition multiple times in the last year. Our intelligence community has high confidence in that assessment given multiple, independent streams of information. The intelligence community estimates that 100 to 150 people have died from detected chemical weapons attacks in Syria to date; however, casualty data is likely incomplete. While the lethality of these attacks make up only a small portion of the catastrophic loss of life in Syria, which now stands at more than 90,000 deaths, the use of chemical weapons violates international norms and crosses clear red lines that have existed within the international community for decades.
We believe that the Assad regime maintains control of these weapons. We have no reliable, corroborated reporting to indicate that the opposition in Syria has acquired or used chemical weapons.
The body of information used to make this intelligence assessment includes reporting regarding Syrian officials planning and executing regime chemical weapons attacks; reporting that includes descriptions of the time, location, and means of attack; and descriptions of physiological symptoms that are consistent with exposure to a chemical weapons agent. Some open source reports from social media outlets from Syrian opposition groups and other media sources are consistent with the information we have obtained regarding chemical weapons use and exposure. The assessment is further supported by laboratory analysis of physiological samples obtained from a number of individuals, which revealed exposure to sarin. Each positive result indicates that an individual was exposed to sarin, but it does not tell us how or where the individuals were exposed or who was responsible for the dissemination.
We are working with allies to present a credible, evidentiary case to share with the international community and the public. Since the creation of the UN fact finding mission, we have provided two briefings to Dr. Åke Sellström, the head of the mission. We will also be providing a letter to UN Secretary General Ban, calling the UNs attention to our updated intelligence assessment and specific incidents of alleged chemical weapons use. We request that the UN mission include these incidents in its ongoing investigation and report, as appropriate, on its findings. We will present additional information and continue to update Dr. Sellström as new developments emerge.
The President has been clear that the use of chemical weapons or the transfer of chemical weapons to terrorist groups is a red line for the United States, as there has long been an established norm within the international community against the use of chemical weapons. Our intelligence community now has a high confidence assessment that chemical weapons have been used on a small scale by the Assad regime in Syria. The President has said that the use of chemical weapons would change his calculus, and it has. Our decision making has already been guided by the April intelligence assessment and by the regimes escalation of horrific violence against its citizens. Following on the credible evidence that the regime has used chemical weapons against the Syrian people, the President has augmented the provision of non-lethal assistance to the civilian opposition, and also authorized the expansion of our assistance to the Supreme Military Council (SMC), and we will be consulting with Congress on these matters in the coming weeks. This effort is aimed at strengthening the effectiveness of the SMC, and helping to coordinate the provision of assistance by the United States and other partners and allies. Put simply, the Assad regime should know that its actions have led us to increase the scope and scale of assistance that we provide to the opposition, including direct support to the SMC. These efforts will increase going forward.
The United States and the international community have a number of other legal, financial, diplomatic, and military responses available. We are prepared for all contingencies, and we will make decisions on our own timeline. Any future action we take will be consistent with our national interest, and must advance our objectives, which include achieving a negotiated political settlement to establish an authority that can provide basic stability and administer state institutions; protecting the rights of all Syrians; securing unconventional and advanced conventional weapons; and countering terrorist activity.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/text-us-statement-syria-chemical-weapons-19396269
David__77
(23,367 posts)Period.
There is no room for nuance on that point. And the US, like in Vietnam, is putting itself on the side of the immoral and criminal.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)John2
(2,730 posts)Obama's claims that any institution, including the U.N. has the right to set up any institution within a Foreign country, except the the Syrian people. Just where does this authority come from? Just what national interest is Obama referring to concerning the U.S. in Syria? I see it as inteference in the internal affairs of another country and the authority of that country's President by Foreign forces. This is a dangerous course of regime change. Why don't he simply just say, he believes in nation building and he is going to use U.S. resources including military force to carry it out with every Government he disapproves of? I'm totally against him. He can use any excuse to do so. The U.N. does not have any right to enter any country, unless they are invited in, much less a hand picked team by the U.S. or the people funding the War effort against the Syrian Government. The definition is Tyranny.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)I have no idea how they come up with this stuff. It sounds more like the Divine Right of Kings theory than anything else.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Syria and all other UN member countries explicitly acknowledged those rights when they accepted UN membership.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/
That said, this war is a huge mistake.
John2
(2,730 posts)are in the minority, the other side has a right to be heard as far as evidence on this matter in the U.N. They also have evidence of who used chemical weapons. That is why you have a push back against the Obama Administration and their so called Allies.
Furthermore, the allegations by the Obama Administration and his allies are against a Government and President, they have renounced as a Government and the legitmate representative of Syria in the U.N. as a member. Where President Obama and his allies get that authority in the U.N., without any Democratic process in Syria?
Then on top of it, He demands the Syrian Government acts as a state Government and holds them responsible for any violence going on in Syria? Obama and his Allies are the ones that omplemented the so called Syrian Rebels as the legitimate Government of Syria. They have been responsible for atrocities in Syria and the Deaths of innocent civilians by way of car bombings, cold blooded murder, including of women and children, that has hard and visual evidence, for all the World to see. As an American citizen, I have a right to listen to evidence by both sides, to form my opinion, and decide who is lying.
If the Obama Administration, by way of the CIA, including the British, France, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, and these so called rebel fighters, have such evidence, then bring it to the U.N. for all the World to judge it, on National T.V. Let the other side bring their evidence too, instead of trying to censor it. Then we will see who is telling lies. If you really trust those people above, then so be it, but I don't, Israel included. They are all the same people that lied before. The only difference in the Obama Adminstration is Obama, but his advisors are the same people edging him to War. This includes people running his intelligence service such as Susan Rice. It includes John Kerry, who was for the War in Iraq, until he ran for President. It also includes the Clintons. I didn't believe them then, and I still don't!
note: start with the biggest lie, the Administration, their Allies, and the Western Media is trying to paint. Then you can go from there and know they are lying in other areas. The lie about Assad being responsible for the Deaths of 90,000 of his people to make him look like a monster. Those Deaths do not include 90,000 Syrians but also many Foreign Fighters infiltrating Syria, including Syrian soldiers and civilians loyal to Assad. So that is a lie in itself.
cqo_000
(313 posts)Report of the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic:
[quote]
138. It is possible that anti-Government armed groups may access and use chemical weapons. This includes nerve agents, though there is no compelling evidence that these groups possess such weapons or their requisite delivery systems.
139. Allegations have been received concerning the use of chemical weapons by both parties. The majority concern their use by Government forces. In four attacks on Khan Al-Asal, Aleppo, 19 March; Uteibah, Damascus, 19 March; Sheikh Maqsood neighbourhood, Aleppo, 13 April; and Saraqib, Idlib, 29 April there are reasonable grounds to believe that limited quantities of toxic chemicals were used. It has not been possible, on the evidence available, to determine the precise chemical agents used, their delivery systems or the perpetrator. Other incidents also remain under investigation.
140. Conclusive findings particularly in the absence of a large-scale attack may be reached only after testing samples taken directly from victims or the site of the alleged attack. It is, therefore, of utmost importance that the Panel of Experts, led by Professor Sellström and assembled under the Secretary Generals Mechanism for Investigation of Alleged Use of Chemical and Biological Weapons, is granted full access to Syria.
[/quote]
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/CoISyria/A-HRC-23-58_en.pdf
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)The US is to supply direct military aid to the Syrian opposition for the first time, the White House has announced.
>
Ben Rhodes did not give details about the military aid other than to say it would be "different in scope and scale to what we have provided before".
>
It seems clear that President Obama has finally been persuaded, as Britain and France have argued, that the battlefield cannot be allowed to tilt strongly in the regime's favour, as is currently happening, he adds.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22899289
Catherina
(35,568 posts)ElsewheresDaughter
(24,000 posts)cynzke
(1,254 posts)A little crazy. Did you know that the Department of Defense is purchasing helicopters for use in Afghanistan from a government owned, Russian arms dealer, who is also supplying Assad/Syria with helicopters, missiles and other assorted weapons. We are financing both sides of this mess and who knows how entangled we will become in it. But this is like paying someone to beat you up.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)cqo_000
(313 posts)Source: The Guardian
On examining the US assessment of Syria's alleged chemical weapons use, Vladimir Putin's top foreign policy adviser, Yuri Ushakov, said: "What was presented to us by the Americans does not look convincing. It would be hard to even call them facts."
Unwelcome as it may be to the French and British governments, who have been leading the push for this finding, he is right. The White House statement says that laboratory analyses of samples "reveal exposure to sarin" (which the NY Times reports amounts to two individuals, who have been shown to have traces of the agent sarin in their bodies), but then goes on to add the qualifier that "each positive result indicates that an individual was exposed to sarin, but it does not tell us how or where the individuals were exposed, or who was responsible for the dissemination". Hardly a proverbial smoking gun. It is quite possibly, as Anthony Cordesman has noted, a "political ploy". The finding rests, we are told, on "analysis" and "reporting", but perhaps more candidly we should call it "supposition".
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/16/red-lines-syria-have-not-been-crossed