AP IMPACT: Commander of Nazi-led unit lives in US

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By DAVID RISING, RANDY HERSCHAFT and MONIKA SCISLOWSKA

BERLIN (AP) - A top commander of a Nazi SS-led unit accused of burning villages filled with women and children lied to American immigration officials to get into the United States and has been living in Minnesota since shortly after World War II, according to evidence uncovered by The Associated Press.

Michael Karkoc, 94, told American authorities in 1949 that he had performed no military service during World War II, concealing his work as an officer and founding member of the SS-led Ukrainian Self Defense Legion and later as an officer in the SS Galician Division, according to records obtained by the AP through a Freedom of Information Act request. The Galician Division and a Ukrainian nationalist organization he served in were both on a secret American government blacklist of organizations whose members were forbidden from entering the United States at the time.

Though records do not show that Karkoc had a direct hand in war crimes, statements from men in his unit and other documentation confirm the Ukrainian company he commanded massacred civilians, and suggest that Karkoc was at the scene of these atrocities as the company leader. Nazi SS files say he and his unit were also involved in the 1944 Warsaw Uprising, in which the Nazis brutally suppressed a Polish rebellion against German occupation.

Polish prosecutors announced Friday after the release of the AP investigation that they will investigate Karkoc and provide "every possible assistance" to the U.S. Department of Justice, which has used lies in immigration papers to deport dozens of suspected Nazi war criminals. The AP evidence of Karkoc's wartime activities has also prompted German authorities to express interest in exploring whether there is enough to prosecute.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20130614/DA6TPLE02.html

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People walk past the home in Minneapolis, Minn., where 94-year-old Michael Karkoc lives, Friday, June 14, 2013. Karkoc, a top commander of a Nazi SS-led unit accused of burning villages filled with women and children, lied to American immigration officials to get into the United States and has been living in Minnesota since shortly after World War II, according to evidence uncovered by The Associated Press. He told American authorities in 1949 that he had performed no military service during World War II, concealing his work as an officer and founding member of the SS-led Ukrainian Self Defense Legion and later as an officer in the SS Galician Division, according to records obtained by the AP through a Freedom of Information Act request. (AP Photo/The Star Tribune, Richard Sennott) MANDATORY CREDIT; ST. PAUL PIONEER PRESS OUT; MAGS OUT; TWIN CITIES TV OUT

[blkmusclmachine]

1. Wasn't the Bush klan sympathetic to that movement?

I've always heard that, esp. in regards to Sen. Prescott Bush.

[Hydra]

2. Funded it

Also, the Gov't rescued various Nazis via operation paperclip, while the Brit gov't sent assassins through the refugee camps after the war to kill nazi officers without trial.

As you can see, we were ALL over the board in what to do with them.

[GiveMeFreedom]

14. Hydra,

I believe what you say. Would you have a book title for what the British did to prisoners? I knew about operation paperclip, NASA is a major benefactor. Thanks in any case. Peace.

[Hydra]

16. I saw something on the history channel about it

They interviewed one of the assassins and he casually laid out how they would infiltrate the camps, find the officers and lead them out to the woods to be shot after they explained who they were and what they were doing/why.

I was more than a little sickened at how casually the Allies adopted the strategies of the Nazis and kept is secret for decades. Along with Paperclip and various other programs, I came to see Nuremberg as a publicity stunt, especially now that we refuse to honor the Geneva conventions. Google turned up nothing when I did a cursory search, guessing the word "assassination" isn't used even though the officer they interviewed didn't have a problem using the word.

In case you're interested, Paperclip is one of my hobby studies not because of the rocket scientists but because of the medical and psych people they brought back and how it led to other...things. You might find the links to MK Ultra interesting.

[happyslug]

43. So Churchill wanted just to shoot the Nazi Leadership, it was Stalin who wanted trials.

Stalin had stage his show trials in the 1930s and wanted to do the same with the Nazis. At that point the Americans agreed to trials. Now, even the American run trials had aspects of being show trials (This is most seen in the Trials of Japanese Generals after the war). This can be seen in the trial of Tomoyuki Yamashita, who ended up being executed for the actions of one of his jounior officers NOT obeying his orders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoyuki_Yamashita

The actual Nuremberg Trials were fairer, in the sense given the all three major powers were involved, politics were less important in the actual trials.

Now, one of the problems was how to do an international court? Except for Russia (And France and those nations taken over by the Nazis during WWII) the allied powers (The US and the UK) were Common Law Jurisdictions, while Germany was a Civil Law Jurisdiction. How to work these two different system into one was a problem. At the actuals Trials, the English Lawyers were considered the best (Being English Common Law Trained) but the Americas were better on Appeal. The Germans did they best in the resulting mixed system that had heavy Common Law Traits that they were unfamilar with, but being Civil Law Trained less confrontational. The same was said of the other Civil And Communist Law Lawyers.

Just a Comment on the Post WWII Nuremberg Trials and why they occurred (i.e. blame or give credit to Stalin).

Side Note: No jokes about his bicycle army vs the British Army in Mayalasia which was dependent on Trucks. His Bicycle Army drove out the British and their Trucks in two months and 7 days.

[Major Hogwash]

3. Wow, he's been in the United States for 64 years and lived peacefully ever since.

Maybe the authorities should just let him live out the rest of his life here until he passes away.
He's 94 years old, for crying out loud.

[truthisfreedom]

4. I'm not really big into punishment but I'm sure there's survivors that would want

to see him face trial at least.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

6. Put that motherfucker against a wall and kill him

that's what you do with Nazi war criminals.

[jberryhill]

30. It's always good to have people to do that to

Makes a good outlet for impulses that would otherwise be unproductive.

But, when there is a good reason to put a motherfucker against a wall and shoot them, all is well.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

31. Nazis occupy a unique space

They were filth.

[Live and Learn]

45. Were they any worse than those that stone women to death

legally in parts of the world or those that lie to support wars that kill thousands? There are a lot of people that do horrible things in this world. There is also truth in the fact that people that have done horrible things in the past can change, thus we use to have a statute of limitations on crimes. I am not sure what imprisoning or "shooting" a 94 year old man would do. Would it really make you feel better somehow? I know it would traumatize his family. Would that make you feel better? Revenge seems to me to perpetuate violence and be immoral in itself.

[Katashi_itto]

42. Wheel the Nazis out to a lamppost and hang him.

[NYC Liberal]

7. So because he managed to elude the authorities for a while, he gets a free pass?

What about his victims? I'm sure many of them were older and he sure didn't let them "live out the rest of their lives" when he massacred them.

[Posteritatis]

12. It's scary how often people, even around here, trot that one out when one of these guys is found. nt

[Posteritatis]

11. So he's had a better life than his victims. There is no statute of limitations on those crimes. (nt)

[Behind the Aegis]

18. "There is no statute of limitations on those crimes."

THANK YOU!!!!!

We aren't talking about shoplifters here!

[cstanleytech]

36. No, no statute of limitations on murder though I am not sure if he will survive long enough to be

put on trial let alone convicted considering he is 94 years old but then stranger things have happened and who knows he might actually survive the trial and spend some time in jail.

[Nye Bevan]

19. Read a book about the Holocaust. Then you will feel differently (nt)

[Major Hogwash]

20. The Pope was a Nazi.

Read a book about the Inquisition. Then you will feel differently.

[Posteritatis]

22. There is a *slight* difference between "Hitler youth conscript" and "Waffen-SS officer." (nt)

[Major Hogwash]

23. So what, they were all Nazis.

I guess it depends on which Nazi gets executed and which one is hidden in the United States that makes the difference.

[Nye Bevan]

24. The ignorance people display on this subject is depressing (nt)

[Posteritatis]

27. It's got to be actively maintained at this point, which is worse than conventional ignorance. (nt)

[kestrel91316]

35. Nope. He has never paid for his unforgiveable crimes.

Try him or deport him or both. I don't much care which.

I just watched the BBC production of The Diary of Anne Frank, so I am not in a particularly charitable mood toward Nazis and their ilk this week.

[Ash_F]

37. I know a lot of people already responded...

I just want to say that if he gets tried now, it will be a very minor punishment compared to what he had done, and what he would have gotten if he was tried earlier.

[chuckstevens]

5. I DON'T CARE (if he is 94 years old)

People made a choice to serve in the SS, especially the Eastern European collaborators. No one was required to serve in the SS. It is estimate that over 1.5 million of the Jews murdered during the holocaust died by bullets in Nazi occupied Eastern Europe. If the man participated in these crimes against humanity, he should be deported and stand trial in Europe.

[Posteritatis]

13. Yep. There was a conscripted Waffen-SS unit but that division was not it.

To get into the other ones you had to try, especially in the east.

[Iliyah]

8. He probably came over when the US

brought the German scientists here. A few were and are still here in the US.

[David__77]

9. I think that the health of the person must be assessed when it comes to trial, etc.

This man is almost certainly no threat to anyone, and further, and has literally lived lifetimes since these events. I think that it would be best not to prosecute.

[mpcamb]

10. I don't buy that.

Not for Franco, Batista, Mengele; Not for Duvalier or Trujillo.
Not for Amin, Bashir, Milosavich.
Not for Pinochet, not for Kissinger.
And not for this guy either.

Remember the victims.

[Nye Bevan]

25. If most of your family had been murdered in the Holocaust you would feel differently (nt)

[Half-Century Man]

15. SchutzStaffel (the SS) was a volunteer organization.

Hitler's bodyguard, it divided into 3 parts; the SD served as party security; the Gestapo, the police intelligence group (third reich NSA); and the Waffen SS (the armed SS) served as private army.
The Waffen SS had several parts, like the concentration camp group, and special purpose troops. At first the volunteers had to be of German aryan stock with 150 years of documentation. Later non-german aryans became eligible.

Because of loyalty oaths and indoctrination The SS was trusted with and carried out a very large portion of the atrocities in conquered countries.


If he was an SS Company commander who's unit was involved in atrocities. Hang Him

[former9thward]

21. Germany can't hang him. They abolished the death penalty in 1949.

Also the Waffen-SS used conscripts after especially after 1943. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS

[Half-Century Man]

29. Wasn't allowed to use Wiki as a reference in school, so only use it for general guide

to other sources. None of the three reference books here have deep details into the Waffen SS. Quite a bit into the Gestapo though. Followed several links to other articles,

In short, they were not given the training, indoctrination, and induction normally given to SS members. Subsequently the US Displaced Persons Commission in September 1950 declared that The Baltic Waffen-SS Units (Baltic Legions) are to be considered as separate and distinct in purpose, ideology, activities, and qualifications for membership from the German SS, and therefore the Commission holds them not to be a movement hostile to the Government of the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS_foreign_volunteers_and_conscripts

Interesting, If he is from a baltic state He is all good. If he isn't, WE should hang him.

[Posteritatis]

33. It says right near the start of the article that he was the Ukrainian component of the Waffen-SS

And not just as a private soldier either; he held a rank roughly equivalent to an army captain. Conscript or no, someone can only rise so high in that organization before their authority starts mattering more.

[Half-Century Man]

34. As a Ukrainian he was a non-baltic SS member

So if he is who he is suspected to be, Dangle his feet.

[Sunlei]

17. should FOI act all the immigration papers of the 10k nazi buddies the USA let in.

[Ilsa]

26. Deport and prosecute his ass.

Make the last years of his life HELL.

[Nye Bevan]

28. We certainly owe that to the families of his many victims, if the allegations are true (nt)

[Ilsa]

32. Deport and prosecute his ass.

Make the last years of his life HELL.

[blkmusclmachine]

38. .

.

[John2]

39. Hand him over

to the Israelis and let them decide, since his crimes came against Jews. I don't know how much gratification can come out from taking revenge on a 94 year old man? I don't know too much about 94 year old people, but most of the time, they are like children, and began to lose all their senses, including awareness. He probably wouldn't know what is going on, and you might be doing him a favor, if he is experiencing pain in his old age. He has already lived a full life, moreso than many people. I don't even know if I would even reach that age and what shape I would be in.

[Diclotican]

40. Omaha Steve

Omaha Steve

The Ukrainian voluntaries in SS, was rumored to some of the worst of the worst, when it come to the killing of the jews - or russians in general.. In many cases the German SS had to reign in the Ukrainian voluntaries, as they often was using methods - and treated the prisoners in way even the SS found was to harsh.. And the SS Galician Division was known as one of the worst SS Division of them all...

Diclotican

[proverbialwisdom]

41. AP: Shock lingers after Nazi unit leader found living in Minnesota

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Commander_of_Nazi-led_unit_lives_in_US.html#sthash.1fK0Heou.dpuf

AP: Shock lingers after Nazi unit leader found living in Minnesota

FRIDAY, JUNE 14, 2013 LAST UPDATED: SATURDAY JUNE 15, 2013, 12:44 PM
BY DAVID RISING, MONIKA SCISLOWSKA, PATRICK CONDON AND RANDY HERSCHAFT
ASSOCIATED PRESS

MINNEAPOLIS — The revelation that a top former commander of a Nazi SS-led military unit has lived quietly in Minneapolis for the past six decades came as a shock to those who knew 94-year-old Michael Karkoc. World War II survivors in both the U.S. and Europe harshly condemned the news and prosecutors in Poland have said they'll investigate.

An Associated Press investigation found that Karkoc served as a top commander in the Ukrainian Self-Defense Legion during World War II. The unit is accused of wartime atrocities, including the burning of villages filled with women and children.

"I know him personally. We talk, laugh. He takes care of his yard and walks with his wife," his next-door neighbor, Gordon Gnasdoskey, said Friday. Gnasdoskey, the grandson of a Ukrainian immigrant himself, said he was disturbed by the revelations about his longtime neighbor.

"For me, this is a shock. To come to this country and take advantage of its freedoms all of these years, it blows my mind," he said.

<>

[happyslug]

44. Ukrainian born in Poland, but fought the Russians

This is clearly not your typical Ukrainian soldier during WWII. He was a Lieutenant. He helped form the Ukrainian Insurgent army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army

Thus, what was he? Was he in the SS, or a unit associated with the SS? Worse what was his relationship to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army? He was being paid by the SS, yet he said he was in the OUN, Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (Who have they own list of war crimes, mostly against the Poles).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists

He appears to have been raised in that part of the Ukraine occupied by Poland before WWII. Under the terms of the Soviet-German Non-aggression pact, that part ended up inside the Soviet Union in September 1939. He joined the German Army as it crossed into Russia in June 1941. What he joined is unclear, he could have been a "Hymie",which in the WWII German army was Russian or Ukrainian who served in the German Army, taking care of the Mule assigned to each infantry Squad (This Freed up Germans to be the actual infantrymen in the Squad). This was rare in 1941, but became more and more the norm after 1941.

On the other hand, if that was the case how did he join the unit he did in 1943 as a Lieutenant? Possible, fought then quit to join another unit (NOT possible for German Soldiers, but could be done by the "Volunteers" within the German Army including the Mule skinners.

Given that only Germans could serve in the Germany Army as Soldiers (See my comments about "Hymies" above), if you wanted to fight for Germany, but was NOT a German you had to enlist in the SS (One German Jew avoided the Death Camps by Serving in the Waffen SS during WWII, he explained his circumcision due to a medical problem as a baby). Thus he could have joined an SS unit in 1941.

This in almost the opposite of John Demjanjuk who, at best, was a guard at a Death Camp. He volunteered for that SS Duty to get out of the German POW camps the Germans had set up for Soviet Prisoners taken in 1941.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk

Demjanjuk was nothing more then a private with no say over what was going in around him. He was under a similar situation as the people in the Death Camp he was guarding. When the camp it is now thought he was a guard and a mass breakout, he may have deserted fearing he would be shot along with the escapees from the Death Camp. Since it was lat 1943, he survived for two years and ended up in a Displaced person camp, and was able to get to the US. Yes, Demjanjuk was said to be "Ivan the Terrible" at one Death Camp, but it is now believed he was at a different death camp and that Ivan the Terrible had been killed during WWII. Thus the only crime Demjanjuk was accused of in his trial in Germany (during which he died) was being a Guard at a death camp, he was convicted of that but on appeal that was reversed (Through by then he was dead and under German Law since he died before all appeals were heard, he was then ruled to be innocent).

My point is here we have someone in a command situation, an actual officer. Someone who was in a position, being an officer, who could say no. That is a huge difference in this case, we are talking in this case, unlike Demjanjuk, someone in a position of Authority.