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bananas

(27,509 posts)
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 01:32 AM Jun 2013

West arming Syrian rebels who eat human flesh,Vladimir Putin says

Source: Reuters, Times of India

Russian President Vladimir Putin, arriving in Britain ahead of an international summit set to be dominated by disagreement over the US decision to send weapons to Syria's rebels, said the West must not arm fighters who eat human flesh.

<snip>

"One does not really need to support the people who not only kill their enemies, but open up their bodies, eat their intestines in front of the public and cameras," Putin said.

"Are these the people you want to support? Are they the ones you want to supply with weapons? Then this probably has little relation to the humanitarian values preached in Europe for hundreds of years."

The incident Putin referred to was most likely that of a rebel commander filmed last month cutting into the torso of a dead soldier and biting into a piece of one of his organs.

<snip>

Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/West-arming-Syrian-rebels-who-eat-human-fleshVladimir-Putin-says/articleshow/20622563.cms

59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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West arming Syrian rebels who eat human flesh,Vladimir Putin says (Original Post) bananas Jun 2013 OP
Humanitarian values? DeSwiss Jun 2013 #1
I find myself agreeing with Putin flamingdem Jun 2013 #2
I totally agree newfie11 Jun 2013 #12
That's because Putin has an interest in seeing US influence in the area wane...and if Iran wants to MADem Jun 2013 #24
Well of course that's what Vlad would say. One nitwit desecrates a corpse and he MADem Jun 2013 #3
I'm not clear about motive here flamingdem Jun 2013 #4
It's because regional actors are getting sick of Iran's interference. MADem Jun 2013 #26
What about Saudia Arabia's interference? Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #33
the French went into Mali and kicked out some attackers they held up paperwork the attackers left. Sunlei Jun 2013 #59
How is there cell footage heart eating but none of chemical weapons? Ash_F Jun 2013 #6
Everyone gets sick and dies, maybe? Too busy running away to take out a camera MADem Jun 2013 #23
You read that there were blood samples Ash_F Jun 2013 #36
Well, that video is of tests on animals, for training purposes, to MADem Jun 2013 #42
However is deployed, it needs to be aerosolized. Which is extremely visible. Ash_F Jun 2013 #43
Post the videos, then--let's have a look. I haven't seen them. MADem Jun 2013 #44
If that's what it takes to convince you Ash_F Jun 2013 #49
There was no "rush to judgment" here. MADem Jun 2013 #53
And you need CONCENTRATION happyslug Jun 2013 #54
They haven't killed that many people, according to reports. MADem Jun 2013 #56
"One nitwit desecrates a corpse..." KansDem Jun 2013 #28
They aren't munching on organs. MADem Jun 2013 #29
That brings up an interesting thought. Ash_F Jun 2013 #39
I think there has been brutality down the ages. That said, there MADem Jun 2013 #41
Oh, btw it was a lung. /nt Ash_F Jun 2013 #37
Well, I only saw the "blurred" video, and it looked rather MADem Jun 2013 #38
Well, he got his point across anyway. /nt Ash_F Jun 2013 #40
cannibalism is surprisingly common quadrature Jun 2013 #5
Well, in that case, cary on! Socal31 Jun 2013 #8
Same in the US Military. Cannibalism is rampant Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #18
Lost on this crowd. Throckmorton Jun 2013 #19
And don't even get me started on the RAF... pinboy3niner Jun 2013 #20
Some of my best friends are lumberjacks, and only a FEW of them are transvestites Clouseau2 Jun 2013 #35
Good Lord! n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #7
David Cameron, John2 Jun 2013 #9
What bothers me is the WMD, it's Iraq 2.0 flamingdem Jun 2013 #10
I think Israel is John2 Jun 2013 #13
MORSI has called for Assad to go....so Israel, Jordan and Egypt are all on the same page right now MADem Jun 2013 #25
America eats its own. Shouldn't be surprising we identify with those of a similar mindset. nt Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #11
This coming from a man whose country watched Jews getting destroyed in Warsaw, carved up Poland Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #14
They also stopped the Nazis Bonobo Jun 2013 #15
Only after the Nazis broke their non-aggression pact NickB79 Jun 2013 #32
Third Tier country John2 Jun 2013 #17
it does take a genius to spell genious correctly, though Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #22
No, but at least John2 Jun 2013 #45
Mistake done on purpose, Mr. Snarky. Welcome to the Pit. Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #55
The Soviet Union suffered casualties at least 40 times those of the US in WW2 leveymg Jun 2013 #27
We are subsidizing bankers to the tune of about $85 billion a month, so it's not like we don't have jtuck004 Jun 2013 #16
Syrian rebels are armed to the teeth! Renew Deal Jun 2013 #21
Some potential Duzys on this thread flamingdem Jun 2013 #34
Especially when it is Nanjing to Seoul John2 Jun 2013 #47
We are not arming the rebels. AngryAmish Jun 2013 #30
oy vey flamingdem Jun 2013 #31
they may be radical fundamentalist cannibals, but they are OUR radical fundamentalist cannibals yurbud Jun 2013 #46
They are McCain's John2 Jun 2013 #48
any leader who throws an oligarch in prison can't be all bad. yurbud Jun 2013 #57
I agree it is fucked up Marrah_G Jun 2013 #50
Anyone else find it weird that we rastaone Jun 2013 #51
Hypocrites! ForeignandDomestic Jun 2013 #52
OMG the rebels are eating russias *WW2 junk buyers* customers Sunlei Jun 2013 #58
 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
1. Humanitarian values?
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 01:50 AM
Jun 2013

Humanitarian values like this?

Since January 2002, the Guantanamo Bay detention camp has held hundreds of detainees without trial or any semblance of due process, in contravention of international law and the U.S. Constitution (which applies to both U.S. citizens and foreigners). There are currently 166 individuals imprisoned at Guantanamo, and not a single one of these has been afforded the rights of an impartial court. This implies that all detainees are being held at the whim of the executive, and it must be taken on good faith that a) the evidence being held is sufficient to assume their guilt, and b) indefinite imprisonment is a just punishment for their unconfirmed crimes. What is most disturbing about this situation is the lawlessness this new system of justice allows. Out of the aforementioned 166, around half were cleared for release in 2009. Because of the lack of judicial oversight, they remain imprisoned.

more


MADem

(135,425 posts)
24. That's because Putin has an interest in seeing US influence in the area wane...and if Iran wants to
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:26 AM
Jun 2013

do the heavy lifting, that's fine with him. OTOH, the bulk of the Arab world doesn't want to see the non-Arab Persians holding more sway in the region than they already have. And even the non-Arab Turks are feeling that, as well--they don't think Iran needs to be a heavy hitter in the area.

I don't think the US should "go into" Syria, either. There are ways to assist them that don't involve a single, solitary "boot on the ground."

MADem

(135,425 posts)
3. Well of course that's what Vlad would say. One nitwit desecrates a corpse and he
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:04 AM
Jun 2013

acts like everyone's doing it. It wasn't just any old organ, either, it was a heart.

Good old Pootie Poot, look into his soul, is backing the team that uses chemical weapons...so there's that.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
26. It's because regional actors are getting sick of Iran's interference.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:33 AM
Jun 2013

Which is why Morsi has called for a no-fly zone (yes, Morsi), and Jordan has offered up tarmac space.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
33. What about Saudia Arabia's interference?
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 01:13 PM
Jun 2013

What about Qatar's interference?

The only reason there is a two-year-old civil war in Syria is because the Saudis and the Qataris paid for it. Otherwise, it probably would have petered out 80,000 deaths or so ago.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
59. the French went into Mali and kicked out some attackers they held up paperwork the attackers left.
Wed Jun 19, 2013, 04:18 PM
Jun 2013

Saudi receipts, plane tickets, lists.passports. Lots of garbage and papers left behind, French TV showed it live..Saudi papers.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
6. How is there cell footage heart eating but none of chemical weapons?
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:17 AM
Jun 2013

Not to be backing either side, but I think the claim of chemical weapons is suspect, considering how much digital footage of everything else from this war already exists online.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
23. Everyone gets sick and dies, maybe? Too busy running away to take out a camera
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:22 AM
Jun 2013

and film, what? People coughing and running? Maybe there is footage, but it just doesn't translate well. There's no footage of Saddam in the act of using chemical weapons but we know he used them.

There are, from what I understand, blood samples.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
36. You read that there were blood samples
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:44 PM
Jun 2013

1) People die in the other videos.

2) The weapons that disperse these chemicals are very visibly distinct from great distance



3) How many cell phone cameras existed in the 80's during the Iran-Iraq war?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
42. Well, that video is of tests on animals, for training purposes, to
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 03:45 PM
Jun 2013

show people whose job it is to train those to protect themselves against Chemical/Biological/Radiological attack. It's not recent, and it's not apropos of anything happening in Syria. There are many ways to deploy chemical weapons--great big clouds of stuff is one way to go, but there are other methodologies that are more targeted. One can use missiles, one can use aircraft, and one can use little stinger-type launchers to deliver the stuff. You won't always see it before it gets to you, and by then, it's too late unless you are suited up.

Do you have videos--that aren't by, say Saddam Hussein's RGs--that show people videoing themselves as they run away?

I haven't seen anything like that. I've seen photographs of dead bodies in the aftermath of a gassing (Halabja, particularly), but I haven't seen any victim-centric video.

And as for the blood tests, we weren't the first ones to do them--UK and France were.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/13/syria-chemical-weapons-us-confirm

The assessment that limited attacks have taken place, based on CIA tests on blood, urine and hair samples from dead or wounded rebel fighters, is the first time Washington has supported claims made by British and French intelligence services in recent weeks. Assad has repeatedly denied using any chemical weapons in the bitter civil war.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/04/syria-nerve-agent-sarin-uk-france

The British and French governments have said that medical samples smuggled out of Syria have tested positive for the nerve agent sarin, and added that they have shown the evidence to a UN investigation.

The Foreign Office confirmed that body fluids collected from victims of one or more attacks in the country were found to contain a chemical fingerprint of sarin at the Ministry of Defence's Porton Down facility in Wiltshire. In Paris, the French foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, said he had passed similar evidence to the head of the UN inquiry into chemical weapon use in Syria, Ake Sellström.


Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
43. However is deployed, it needs to be aerosolized. Which is extremely visible.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 04:24 PM
Jun 2013

"Do you have videos--that aren't by, say Saddam Hussein's RGs--that show people videoing themselves as they run away? "

Not sure what you are getting at about Saddam Hussein's RGs, that is just a bad example because that was 30 years ago and nobody had cell cams and even regular still photo cameras were extremely rare among civilians. Even still, journalists arrived after the fact and shot still images of the victims, which showed no visible wounds. We haven't even seen that much in Syria.

Yes there are videos coming out of Syria from both sides and from the perspectives of both attackers and the attacked. As they fight, as they run. Even as they are in conversation and get unexpectedly ambushed. This is the digital age.

As for the 'reports' ahem... babies tossed out of incubators, aluminum tubes, yellow cake ect. I'll wait until I see what is refereed to, in journalism, as a primary source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source

MADem

(135,425 posts)
44. Post the videos, then--let's have a look. I haven't seen them.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 04:48 PM
Jun 2013

And the "babies out of incubators" thing was a GHWB concept.

I do believe that Saddam's RGs DID film their exploits. I've seen plenty of film on the Iran Iraq war, and it would not surprise me if there is film of those attacks. The point I am making is that there doesn't have to be a great big cloud, coming at you from miles away, high and wide, to poison people. It can be a much more intimate process. Many chemical weapons are invisible.

Look at the order that this situation was revealed, here. It was the socialist French, followed by the UK, who first raised the alarm about this--NOT the USA.

The USA has been dragging their feet on getting involved in Syria--which is why they didn't just say "Oh, OK, French, we'll take your word for it."

The USA, in fact, didn't take the French word, or the British word--they went and got their own samples. And, boom goes the dynamite, three times the charm.

Look, even Morsi of Egypt--the Muslim Brotherhood leader and hardly Obama's "BFF"--is calling for a no-fly zone. So's Jordan (and the young king has had his differences with USA, so it's not like they're touting "our" POV). You know the Saudis want this shit rolled up as quickly as possible. This is a proxy war, and it's an Arab - Iranian one, with Sunni-Shi'a overtones. The Arabs are quite annoyed with Assad for coloring outside the lines, and they just aren't having it. Even the non-Arab Turks, who have managed to make friends in the area from their perch above the fray, aren't having this without complaint--after all, they end up with the refugees and the hassle, and wars have a way of spilling over borders.

Arabs like stability, more than anything, and they like countries that have strong leadership, consensus-based problem solving (even if the consensus is amongst elites) and few surprises. Basher is no Hafiz al-Assad; his father knew how to play the carrot/stick game AND keep his Arab neighbors in his corner, but the son has absolutely no clue, and has lacked one for a long time. Plus, he's ruthless. He makes his dad look like a pussycat.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
49. If that's what it takes to convince you
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:09 PM
Jun 2013

Then be my guest. There is a reason the people who called BS on the aforementioned lies were correct. It wasn't because they guessed right on a 50/50 shot true or false. They looked at the facts available and made the smart decision.


Here is a site that keeps up with the videos.

http://bachlab.balbach.net/syrian-videos.html

MADem

(135,425 posts)
53. There was no "rush to judgment" here.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 09:08 PM
Jun 2013

I heard rumors of this back in the fall of last year, and I think February or March at the latest is when the French jumped on it. It's June now.

I'd hardly say that Obama was leaping through his own asshole to Quick Like A Bunny hand weapons to the insurgents. I think if anything, he's been dragging his feet. And that's fine--I would rather he vet twice, commit once than the other way around.

Some of those videos are very interesting--thank you for those links; I've just started looking at them, and the chem ones I have seen thus far are mostly shots of victims. I don't think they're using sarin, though--I think they are using something that causes serious respiratory distress and in some cases death, but I think it's something other than sarin in the videos of medical treatment. What that might be, I don't know.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
54. And you need CONCENTRATION
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 09:46 PM
Jun 2013
1. To be Effective Chemical Weapons must be CONCENTRATED.

Any of the gases have to be concentrated on a target to be effective. Thus, when I was taught Chemical Warfare in the 1980s, we were told to look to Artillery or bombs impacting closer together then normal. The reason for the this was to keep the concentration up on the target.

Concentration can be achieved three ways, 1 by concentrated Artillery and/or Mortar fire.
2. Massive Air Attack
3. Canister attack that floats over the enemies position.

#3 was used in WWI, first by the German to support an offensive, then by the allies when in the offensive. The problem is you need to make sure the wind is blowing the way you want the Chemicals to go. In case of the First German Use of this method, they had to wait for weeks for the winds generally flow in France flows West to East. The Germans being east of the Allies had to wait several weeks till the wind blew East to West and launched their attack. It was successful, but the allies quickly copied the idea and given the prevailing wind used it effectively for the remaining of WWI. The problem of having to wait for the right wind remained and that to get the concentration needed you had to pump a lot of chemicals, and that could only be done using huge pumps and tubes. Not done since WWI for it failed to be useful during the 1918 Offensive for troops were moving further then the chemicals would go and stay concentrated.

Thus, since WWI, the preferred ways to deliver Chemical Weapons has been artillery and airplanes. They both have the advantage of bring able to drop the chemicals right on the target, but in much smaller amounts then the use of pumps and tubes. Thus massive amounts of shells and bombs were needed to do a chemical attacks. When the Germans first looked at chemicals they quickly saw that concentration was so important that they had to inform their artillery to fire shells closer together then if the artillery were firing regular high explosive shells. This knowledge was spread to Airplanes and they became an important way to spread Chemicals after WWI (Airplanes were used in WWI to spread chemicals, but it was minor compared to artillery, the planes were to small to carry enough).

Thus you have to have concentration and given the fire capacity of Syria, it does NOT sound like they have the ability to concentrate fire enough to do an effective gas attack. Syria has sufficient artillery, mortars and planes, but I doubt they can concentrate them enough to do an effective chemical attack.

2. High Explosives are more effective about 95% of the time:

Scientific American did a paper on Chemical Warfare in the 1980s. One of the findings it found was that in most situations high explosives would cause more casualties then Chemical Weapons. You also have to remember, the chemical attack must be more effective then the same delivery system dropping high explosives. Given that the Rebels are mostly light Infantry, the Syrian Army may just prefer to drop high explosive shells on them, for high explosives are just more effective. This was the main reason no one used Chemical Weapons in WWII, given their experiences from WWI, except in two cases (both explained below) it was considered more effective to drop high explosives shells then Chemical Shells. Studies have shown that if troops have gas masks on them (Not wearing them, just have the masks on the soldier's equipment belt) in something like 95% of the time, High Explosives would do more injuries then Chemical weapons. In the remaining 5% they are about even, thus why use Chemicals?

3. Chemical Weapons is best if used in the Offensive

Furthermore, until the last month or so, the Syrian Government was on the Defensive. Gas is NOT considered a good weapon from a defensive point of view. People who are attacking tended to concentrate on one point, push through and beyond. Thus where do you drop the chemical? Japan studies this and in they defensive plans for the Home Islands if the US had to invade the Islands in November 1945, strict orders were issued NOT to use any Chemical Weapons even if the Americans did. Japan was going to fight a defensive war, and chemicals are of limited help on defense.

On offensive operations, Chemical can be handy. You force defenders into their Chemical Suits, the Chemicals, being heavier then normal air, creeps into dugouts, foxholes and trenches, all defensive positions. Thus when you are on the attack dumping chemicals on a target and then moving in is the ideal use of Chemicals. This was the German Plans for Leningrad in 1942, it had been surrounded in 1941 but held out. A Chemical Attack, using nerve gas, which the Germans had invented, was planned, the shells sent to the Front and it would have lead to the quick gassing of the Defenders and the fall of Leningrad. All the Germans Needed was Hitler's orders to launch the attack, an order Hitler never issued,

Churchill had planned to use Gas on any German land invasion of Britain, through it appears this was ordered without consideration of his generals (who basically opposed the plan). The US planned not only to drop four more atomic bombs on Japan In November 1945 but to gas Tokyo and other Japanese Cities. This was to knock out as many defenders as possible as US Troops hit the beeches of Japan. The Invasion plan on Japan was simple, after the above Atomic and Gas Attacks, invade the southern most main island, but only occupy the bottom 1/3, the US planned to bomb the rest of the island and then use the island as a base to invade the Main Japanese Island In March 1946. Since neither the US nor Japan had signed the treaty against using Gas in Warfare, we planned to do so when it came to Japan.

More recently, in the Iraq-Iran war, Iraq's use of Chemical weapons was completely ineffective except against the Kurds who rose up in revolt during the war and were hit with Chemicals as a result when Saddam decided to move against them (again in an offensive operation). Now some reports state that Iran agreed to end the war when Saddam threatened to use chemical weapons against Iranian Cities (i.e. kill all of the Civilians in such cities). The problem with this threat is that Iraq did NOT have enough Missiles and planes to carry out such an attack. At the same time, Iraq had been permitted to import in a massive number of new tanks, mostly T-72s, while the US maintain the arms embargo against Iran. Thus by 1988, Iraq had over 1000 tanks, facing less then 200 Iranian tanks (and many of these were captured ex-Iraqi T-54s, called by Israeli Defense force, the easiest tank to maintain and repair). Iran had re-captured all of its former territory, but it was clear the West was NOT going to leave Iran defeat Iraq. Iran had shown it could fight Iraq to a standstill while it was being forbidden to get new parts for its planes and tanks, while Iraq had full access to new planes (and pilots) and tanks. Thus the threat of Chemical Warfare had no effect on the decision of the Iranians. Instead Iran saw itself in a hopeless situation. It could NOT defeat Iraq, the West would not permit it to, but it could defeat any Iraqi attack on Iran. Thus Iran either had to agree to a cease fire or continue the war with no possibility of anything to gain. Iran agreed to a Cease fire and the war ended.

Now, Chemical Weapons have been used successfully against Natives and other troops who did not have any knowledge on how to deal with Chemical Weapons, but again only when the user of chemicals were Attacking the Native or other troops NOT as the user of chemicals were defending against an attack from the Natives or other troops not prepared for chemical warfare.

4. For the above reasons, I doubt Syria has used Chemical Weapons:

Sorry, I have not seen a situation where chemical weapons would have been advantageous to the Syrians to use. The Syrians, until recently, were on the defensive not the offensive. Furthermore Syria appears never to have had the needed artillery or air power to provide the needed concentration. Now Syria has enough of both on paper, the real question can they concentrate them to use in a chemical attack. Given the nature of the war, I have not seen such concentration for it defeats the need of ground forces to have artillery near by for fire support, and this war is all over Syria just not in any one location.

Sorry, I just do not believe that Syria is so dumb as to use Chemical Weapons. It makes no sense for them to do so,

MADem

(135,425 posts)
56. They haven't killed that many people, according to reports.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 11:32 PM
Jun 2013

I mean, from a humanitarian POV, one is too many, but we're talking a hundred or two, not thousands.

I never thought al Assad would be so stupid as to invite Iran in to help him fight his little war, either, but he's not Hafiz, that's for certain.

Saddam's use of chemical weapons against the Kurds was more of a demonstration of principle; to see if it could be done. We don't know if that's what Government of Syria is doing as well.

That region doesn't worry too much about the Geneva Conventions, and standards are different. Kidnapping is considered merciful and preferable to outright murder; it's often seen as a way to persuade someone to your POV. Chemical weapons are seen as an ace in the hole, otherwise governments wouldn't continue to stockpile them. And Syria by all accounts has plenty:

http://www.channel4.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-damascus-assad-interactive-files

The only question remaining is have they used them in this most recent imbroglio, or are they, instead, creating a climate of fear by using tear gas or something that causes distress but is less lethal, instead?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
29. They aren't munching on organs.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:53 AM
Jun 2013

That's disrespect, certainly, but that's not desecration.

This isn't a garden party. This is war in all its brutality and inappropriateness.

The heart munching is a new one on me, that's especially graphic, but this notion that the paradigm is that people behave in "honorable" ways on the field of battle pretty much died after WW1. There won't be any Christmas truces and shared meals across no man's land in conflicts in this era. People are mean, nasty, driven and partisan. They want to win. They want to motivate their juniors to perceive their opponents as "less than" in order to incite them to further battlefield successes. Enemies are actual enemies, not people who have a difference of opinion.

It is what it is.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
39. That brings up an interesting thought.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:55 PM
Jun 2013

Was war really more 'honorable' back then? Or was it just because we did not have the means to record it all? With everyone having video recording technology these days, the brutality of war has become more visible.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
41. I think there has been brutality down the ages. That said, there
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 03:03 PM
Jun 2013

was a time when it was considered cowardly to fight like Americans (hide, and don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes) and there were many examples recorded of gentlemanly conduct during WW1 (mostly because neither side particularly wanted to be there).

I do agree with you that video enables more "gotcha" moments these days. First person descriptions don't pack the same punch as a visual, in any event.

Peeing on the enemy is certainly not something that was invented in Iraq or Afghanistan. Nor was chopping someone open and going for their heart (and missing and grabbing a lung instead, apparently). It's just that we haven't seen the latter recently...!

A discussion on the subject, from the instructive folks at DISCOVERY: http://news.discovery.com/history/eating-the-enemy-130514.htm

More recently, former Liberian President Charles Taylor — sentenced last year to 50 years in prison for aiding and abetting rebels in Sierra Leone during the 1991-2002 civil war –was accused of ordering his militias to eat the flesh of captured enemies and UN soldiers. Taylor himself reportedly ate the heart and livers out of dead soldiers.


I'll bet they don't serve much heart or liver in prison...!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
38. Well, I only saw the "blurred" video, and it looked rather
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:53 PM
Jun 2013

heart like in that iteration.

I guess that fellow flunked anatomy. I'm betting his immediate audience didn't notice.

Socal31

(2,484 posts)
8. Well, in that case, cary on!
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:20 AM
Jun 2013

I will just take your word for it, and immediately support arming Jihadists with weaponry that will one day be used to kill friendlies.


 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
18. Same in the US Military. Cannibalism is rampant
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:17 AM
Jun 2013

...seems to happen most to lost antarctic expeditions though, like the Greely Expedition.

Clouseau2

(60 posts)
35. Some of my best friends are lumberjacks, and only a FEW of them are transvestites
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:18 PM
Jun 2013

There is no cannibalism in the British navy, absolutely none, and when I say none, I mean there is a certain amount.

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
9. David Cameron,
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:59 AM
Jun 2013

in his speech sounded like Tony Blair years ago. He is a real conservative though. I think what we have is Obama being the moderate Democrat like Blair and Cameron more like Bush the real conservative. They both have an appearance of arrogance, demanding another country's leader must go, just like with Saddam. I don't know where these men get that authority?

Syria has not attacked them but they are using human rights as an excuse in a civil war, that includes foreigners. Blair also made the claim about weapons of WMD. I don't like rightwingers, because they think they must have some kinda divine right of authority over everybodyelse. I think they are the people that needs to go. Britain made a mistake putting this guy in power. He already bought them austerity. Cameron is probably lying out his teeth, just like Blair did.

flamingdem

(39,312 posts)
10. What bothers me is the WMD, it's Iraq 2.0
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 03:07 AM
Jun 2013

and terrifying.

What's Israel up to with all of this??

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
13. I think Israel is
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 03:58 AM
Jun 2013

having second thoughts, but they are more worried about Iran. They still can't trust Morsi and the extremists. If it was up to Israel, they would probably get rid of them all. Especially their rightwingers.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
25. MORSI has called for Assad to go....so Israel, Jordan and Egypt are all on the same page right now
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:30 AM
Jun 2013

WRT this issue.

Morsi wants a no-fly zone. Jordan has offered up tarmac space. The US is leaving aircraft in Jordan following a mil-to-mil exercise.

 

Nanjing to Seoul

(2,088 posts)
14. This coming from a man whose country watched Jews getting destroyed in Warsaw, carved up Poland
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:05 AM
Jun 2013

with the Nazi, starved the Ukrainians, decimated their own people for ideological reasons, ran gulags and supported some of the most horrific, brutal and despotic regimes last century (North Korea, Romania, Yugoslavia, even Maoist China until 1956).

Putin, you're a second tier leader in a third tier country. When you can control you lawless and organized crime instead of signing laws outlawing gay rights speech, we'll listen. Until then, STFU, former KGB asshole.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
32. Only after the Nazis broke their non-aggression pact
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 01:03 PM
Jun 2013

So long as the Nazis played by the rules, they had no problem working with them knowing full-well their despotic methods.

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
17. Third Tier country
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:09 AM
Jun 2013

to what? They have the largest stock pile of nuclear weapons in the World. If they really wanted to, they can eliminate a lot of countries. They have veto power for a reason. I rather for the neocons and Cameron to STFU, rightwing assholes. See now, it doesn't take a genious to stoop to the level of insults. I don't think we achieved anything?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
27. The Soviet Union suffered casualties at least 40 times those of the US in WW2
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:40 AM
Jun 2013

The US could have bombed the rail junctions leading to the Concentration Camps but explicitly declined to do so.

We're no angels - nor are the Russians. BTW- Bush, Sr. is also an old spook, as are a number of ranking politicians in the U.S. Gov't. There is nothing uniquely evil or virtuous about either side.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
16. We are subsidizing bankers to the tune of about $85 billion a month, so it's not like we don't have
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:43 AM
Jun 2013

experience with flesh-eaters.

Heck, it's the JP Morgan-Chase motto "Ya gotta have heart. And liver, and kidneys..."

I was trying to think back, and for the life of me I can't remember a time when something like what is being proposed worked out for the best. Afghanistan comes to mind.

Or is this just an excuse to prove we can fight Russia without either of us getting our pants dirty?


yurbud

(39,405 posts)
46. they may be radical fundamentalist cannibals, but they are OUR radical fundamentalist cannibals
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:15 PM
Jun 2013

so it's all good.

But if someone we don't like eats an especially intelligent snail, by god, we have to invade and kill a million people.

 

rastaone

(57 posts)
51. Anyone else find it weird that we
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:40 PM
Jun 2013

supported the 20+ yr Ugandan dictator in his fight against the rebel and now we are supporting the rebel fight against a 10yr dictator? No UN resolution for force the murderous dictator in Uganda to step down, in fact we sent in trainers weapons and foreign aid to help his country survive. Talk about double standards

 

ForeignandDomestic

(190 posts)
52. Hypocrites!
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:48 PM
Jun 2013

You didn't know the US has no problems with Dictators if the oppression of their people is beneficial to American corporate interest, It's only after they stop taking the marching orders from the West that we want to spread "democracy".

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