Rebels: Assad, Hezbollah used chemical weapons

[azurnoir]

Source: Ynet

Hezbollah accused for first time for using chemical weapons in Damascus suburb attack; according to Syrian rebels, several were killed, injured due to gas

The major organization of Syrian rebels, the Free Syrian Army, announced Wednesday that forces affiliated with Bashar Assad's regime and Hezbollah fighters employed chemical weapons in battles at the outskirts of Damascus, according to Alarabiya network.

Assad's forces are continuing to shell a number of towns and areas within Syria using a range of munitions, especially chemical warfare which, this time around, hit the town of Zamalka, outside of Damascus.

Read more: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4394620,00.html

[geek tragedy]

1. They might as well get accused, everyone else in that conflict has. nt

[indio55555]

25. Oh ok.

And what you do is just fine....


Warning: NSFW video
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=abc_1371591942

[John2]

2. I wish those cowards would get out of those towns and fight the Syrian Army.

They are a sorry excuse for men. I also heard about them blowing up a woman professors car and her losing both her legs. They can STFUP as far as I'm concerned. Run Al Qaeda back to where they came from. That white stuff coming out their mouths is probably fake. The Syrian Army and Hezbullah don't need chemical weapons to kick their ass! It serves them no purpose to use them but it does serve Al Qaeda to fake it. Is their source Israel again?

[leftynyc]

6. Try Britain and France

but how pathetically typical for a DUer to blame Israel.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10121921/Syria-Britain-US-and-France-in-urgent-talks-on-arming-rebels.html

[Dash87]

9. Equally as untrustworthy as the US at this point.

From now on, the Syrian rebels are heroic freedom fighters fighting against that evil dictator™ Assad.

[leftynyc]

10. Thank you for

making it obvious you are not worth my time. If you care to look through my posts, you'll see I've been against giving anything to the rebels - both sides suck and I don't care who wins.

[Dash87]

23. Someone pee'd in your cornflakes this morning?

I was just saying that France's and Britain's word atm is not entirely trustworthy. It's hard to differentiate at the moment what is actually true, and what countries like the US want to be true.

I don't think the possibility of the rebels bombing themselves should be taken lightly (not saying that you are). Once again, though, I'm sure we'll rush into the conflict with absolutely no clue, just like we did with Iraq. This is a pretty bad idea.

[Comrade Grumpy]

3. Were their mouths full of the enemy's internal organs when they spoke?

[Sunlei]

4. why are the medical persons not effected? where are blood, urine, tox tests to show the exact 'gas'?

I don't doubt that they throw 'something' off those helicopters or from missiles or city damage from missile attacks- or even poison the drinking water/food supply. like pool chemicals,Diazinon (insecticide)<<?? or even over use/over concentrated use of teargas they seem to have a lot of teargas these days.

picture just are not enough. there should be lots of chemical tests results. where are all the cell phone videos, these people all have cell phones.

blood, skin and urine samples should be provided to our country's public labs for testing. (not just one lab, several) It is weird to me to see picture of many medical persons hovering over a person who should be quite toxic. Another picture of a dead person in an open air office.

[John2]

8. We don't have

the chain of custody for the evidence. The rebels ( Al Nusra) and Israel's ( Netanyahu's) word is not good enough. At least not for me. They blow up women and children and then start whining about atrocities, while getting their asses kicked. I don't hear the other side complaining, they just respond with an ass kicking. They took on more than they can handle in this fight.

I heard John Kerry wanted to bomb Syrian air strips and our Joint Chief of Staff, essentially called him an idiot in not so much words. There is a reason McCain and Graham wanted him as Secretary of State. They probably thought Kerry was going to be a rubber stamp for them to go to War. Maybe they should fire the Army Joint Chief of Staff?

[leftynyc]

11. And you don't trust Britain or France either

So which maven of freedom to you trust? Iran, China, Russia? I seriously can't wait to hear this.

[azurnoir]

13. so whodo you wish to see come out on top in Syria? n/t

[leftynyc]

27. I've made quite clear

a number of times on this board that I don't give a shit who wins - both sides suck.

[azurnoir]

30. both sides do indeed suck I agree

do you think the US should be arming the rebels, to balance things out, or what ever reason we're doing it?

[leftynyc]

32. No - I think we should stay out

of it completely. It'll only backfire if we get involved. My heart breaks for the innocents who are getting killed (90,000 last I heard) but this kind of thing never ends well for the US.

[John2]

15. At least they have

some form of elections, you don't see in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Jordan. You really want to call Egypt a democracy with the Brother Muslimhood in charge? And when did Libya have an Election? As far as Israel, it is a Fortress for mostly Jews. It can't last without us, just like Apartheid South Africa couldn't.

[John2]

16. No I do not

trust Britain, and apparently neither their courts and some of their citizens. Britain was just as guilty for leading us to War as George W. Bush with their intelligence. I especailly don't trust a rightwing Government in Britain. As far as France is concern, I don't trust their current Government. And to go even further, I don't trust your rightwing Congress, and apparently a lot of other Americans don't either. So if you want to put me in the minority, go for it!

[karynnj]

17. "your" Congress, but then you say - a lot of "other" Americans - what country are you from?

I realize that you do not have to provide this information, but it might be useful for us in understanding your positions.

[John2]

21. I'm a natural born

American citizen and a veteran at that. I don't like this Congress, especially the rightwing Republicans. I think our Foreign Policy has been dominated by them. I think a lot of them rigged the vote or their Districts to get in Congress. They have a 10 percent approval rating. They don't represent me and most of them are corrupt. They have been bought and payed for. Our President would call me cynical, but there are a lot of people like me and it is growing. Look at the Polls. Nobody is agreeing with them on Syria no matter what they claim. They have lost respect. Lying will do it for you.

[karynnj]

22. Ok - Thanks for answering and I apologize - the wording just seemed strange

I do agree with you that a press conference or talk is overdue on Syria. Obama needs to explain what we are doing and why - the sooner the better.

[leftynyc]

28. You've told me all I need to know

You wont trust anything that comes from the US, Britain, France or anyone else who is telling you what you don't want to hear. You will trust Iran (and by extrapolation, Hezbollah as they are one voice). Like I said, it's all I need to know.

[Comrade Grumpy]

24. No, I don't trust Britain or France on this, either. They are dying for an excuse to intevene.

As the Church Lady would say, "How conveeeeenient."

It's also a little strange that there is this giant to-do over an estimated alleged 100-150 deaths, given that about 100,000 people have been killed in the conflict so far. But Obama was nice enough to make a "red line" statement, so now the war mongers are trying to push him on it. And it's working, although not at a level serious enough to make a difference in the war, just prolong it and kill more Syrians.

[leftynyc]

29. Look at the group of "mavens of truth"

you're tying yourself to - Iran, Russia, China. That doesn't make you want to perhaps give it a second look?

[Comrade Grumpy]

33. I'm not tying myself to anybody. Iran, Russia, China, those aren't my government.

This one is. And I don't want my government intervening in Syria, especially not based on possibly trumped-up allegations designed to suck us in.

[leftynyc]

34. Somebody is lying

and it looks like you are willing to believe Iran, Russia and China rather than the US, Britain and France. That's the situation. That said, I'm in total agreement that the US should stay out of the clusterfuck that is Syria.

[leveymg]

5. The whole thing is toxic. Just another reason to pull up stakes and head the hell out.

Last edited Wed Jun 19, 2013, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)

A region that is consuming itself, and all we can do is pour arms and ammo on the fire.

[azurnoir]

7. hmmm well there is this from also from Ynet

Let them kill themselves quietly

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4391453,00.html

Alex Fishman is the same guy who wrote this during OCL

Strewn bodies of civilians, including children, seem to raise no red flags. They are simply brushed off. “We’ll pay the international price later for the collateral damage and the anticipated civilian casualties,” Israeli military correspondent Alex Fishman wrote in the daily Yediot Ahronoth."

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/medias_self_censorship_abets_gaza_atrocities/0017123

[John2]

12. Doesn't this suggest

Israel don't want to see peace and dividing up Syria into warring factions is their goal? I think it is going to backfire on them, because the Rebels aren't going to win. And if the U.S. enters this with a No Fly zone, it will escalate into a wider war. Sure the U.S. put some forces in certain countries, but they are depending on governments, that will stab them in the back.

Israel is a country surrounded by a lot of countries they can't trust. The reason Kerry got pushed back on, is because the U.S. military is spread thin. Another War will not only cost a lot of lives, but a lot of resources. You can just as well forget about the Debt. And if you have entire combined Armies enter a wider War, it will require a Draft. The Taliban has their headquarters in Qatar now? So they are trusting the Taliban again, who is just as extreme as Al Qaeda when it comes to establishing Sharia Law. Our primary National Interest, is this country, and none other. The War needs to end, and the U.S. needs to force all sides to the table, including Israel. You got Russia and China willing to help. Netanyahu needs to stop building settlements. He is part of the problem. The Obama Administration needs to stop following his wishes.

[azurnoir]

14. IMO we will arm the Rebels™ just enough to keep it going

and the 93,000 Syrian deaths so far,

[John2]

19. I'm looking at information

from both sides where ever I can obtain it. It depends on which side seems more creditable to me if you can cut through their propaganda. I've formed an opinion, the Syrian Army and their Allies right now are crushing the opposition on the battle field. They are regaining territory and if they take Aleppo, the Rebels will lose quickly. It will just be a mop up from there.

That is what the opposition and their Allies are afraid of. They can cut off the point of supply routes and entrance to Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan and Turkey. Aleppo essentially does it. If you have a military mind, look at the map. Compare it to the defeat of Germany or the defeat of the Northern Army of Virginia during the Civil War.

The Forces left in Syria, will have no resupply of ammunition or new recruits. I also think the FSA is probably more of a myth than anything else based on the Syrian Army's offense. There is very little evidence of them engaging the Syrian Army or Hezbullah. Where is General Idris located and his forces? The Syrian Army has killed and captured thousands of fighters but very little evidence of deserters have been killed or captured. You leaves you to wonder if these people accepted bribes and are living it up somewhere else, other than fighting in Syria. You can easily put out a video for advertisement.

[karynnj]

18. I seriously doubt that Israel wants a raging war on its border

Do you think they want Jordan destabalized? Do you think they want Hezbollah gaining power?

Not to mention the source for ALL the Kerry stories is one Pro-Israel reporter who has no direct quotes from anyone - and he has been inaccurate (at least on Kerry) since 2004. All Kerry's public statements have been on pushing for a political statement. One article spoke of him and the Russian foreign minister agreeing that the UN should be allowed in by both sides to investigate the chemical weapons charge suggesting that he was willing to question that crossing of the red line. He is concerned that Hezzbollah is actively involved.

Jeffery Goldberg seems to be a respected reporter, but one always identified as "pro Israel" - in a way that no one agreeing with the majority of American Jews' position of a two state solution is called (nor is JStreet). I tried to see what was important to him and who he liked.

The phrase often used to describe him is "pro-Israel".
Clearly, he is NOT happy with anyone in the current administration with regards to Israel - his main concern. (Here's a column on Hagel ( http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-22/israel-welcomes-hagel-a-friend-bearing-gifts.html ) Note the adjectives used for Hagel.

So, who did he respect on Israel? He appears to like Hillary and in at least 2 articles made the case that she was the most likely person to get Israel/Palestine to a political solution arguing most of her time should be on that - Note this was from June, 2011 - long after Hillary made it clear that this was not an issue she was working on. Yet he says,


FWIW, I do tend to think that Hillary Clinton has been put on earth in order to negotiate this issue to a successful conclusion. She has the will, the intelligence, the understanding and the prestige to make this happen -- if it is going to happen at all. Opportunities are, in fact, presenting themselves at this moment, and it would be a shame to see Hillary's talents go to waste on lesser projects. And, by the way, I don't believe that solving the Israeli-Palestinian dispute fixes America's problems in the Middle East, but I do believe that it's an important enough issue in its own right to warrant most of Hillary's attention.


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/its-hillary-time/68955/

I don't see how anyone solves Israel/Palestine without creating a Palestinian state - or demanding Israel give full rights to all in a one state solution - which Goldberg would never agree to as it would quickly become minority Jewish. I have no idea what Kerry's position was, but I find it unlikely that someone who hates the entire Obama national security/foreign policy group would be the only one getting insider information. Not to mention, Obama and everyone else have ruled out sending troops.

[John2]

20. I can say it briefly

in a nutshell. I think Netanyahu's rightwing government wants a War, to eliminate the threat of Iran, Hezbullah,and Syria. They are more of a threat than Hamas or any of those Sunni countries to Israel. Hamas is nothing compared to the militaries of those three. Israel has never faced Iran in a War, much less a country with a population of 80 million people. Iran has the man power to put millions of troops in the field and divisions. Israel needs the United States to survive. You have to extrapolate seven million Jews from a population of eleven million. They are the only Israeli citizens can serve in the military. They can't afford to have a drawn out War with a country like Iran, and Iran now produces their own weapons.

[azurnoir]

31. the thing here is

Israel already has had this 'war; raging on its border for 2 years and when it gets too close the bombers and tanks are ready to deal with that, Jordan is being flooded with refugees which could lead to economic instability but on a security level I read a couple of months back

U.S. military to step up presence in Jordan in light of Syria civil war

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/world/us-jordan-troops-order

what IMO is going on is that the on going conflict has Iran's 2 major allies in the region tied up, lessening the threat should the military option for dealing with Iran come in to play, the only game changer here could be Iran's elections last week, how that may effect the situation however is yet to be seen

[Benton D Struckcheon]

26. Syrian Organ Munching, Explained

In case you were wondering about that little incident:

The Revolution Will Not be Cannibalized

It is actually the liver that would be the most emotive organ* as it recalls a famous incident during the Battle of Uhud. This was one of the early important battles between the polytheist Meccans and the nascent Muslim community led by Muhammad after going into exile in Medina. During the battle Hamza ibn 'Abd al-Muttalib, who was Muhammad's uncle though very close to him in age, one of the first converts to Islam, one of his closest advisors and a renowned warrior, was killed and Hind bint 'Utbah, the wife of Abu Sufyan who was commanding the Meccans, ate his liver.

...As far as I know any Muslim Arab primary school child should be familiar with this story and I've been surprised that it hasn't been mentioned in any of the reports I've seen about it.
Eventually Hind converted along with the rest of the defeated Meccans (and in what seems all too familiar a pattern) was the mother of Muawiyah who became the 5th Caliph and is considered by Shiites to be an usurper as they believe the line of succession should have gone through Muhammad's bloodline via Ali, the fourth Caliph. Incidentally, it was Muawiyah's son and successor Yazid who was responsible for the death/martyrdom of Ali's son Hussein at the Battle of Karbala. This is the holiday commemorated by all that colorful self-flagellation.

Now this is probably reading too much into that incident but given these associations one possible interpretation is that this was a taunt directed at Shiites who knew just what was being implied. Or maybe he was just feeling peckish.