George Zimmerman trial: State can say Trayvon Martin was profiled

[uppityperson]

Source: Orlando Sentinel

When opening arguments begin in the trial of George Zimmerman, prosecutors will be able to tell the jury that Trayvon Martin was profiled and Zimmerman was a "wannabe cop," the judge in the case ruled today.

Circuit Judge Debra Nelson ruled on a defense motion this morning seeking to block those phrases from trial. The state can also say "vigilante" if they choose, and can say that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, Nelson ruled.

However, she said prosecutors should avoid saying Trayvon was racially profiled.

Prosecutor John Guy said this morning that the state didn't plan to say the teen was profiled "solely" by race: "There are a number of ways" someone could be profiled, he said....(more)

Read more: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-911-screams-20130621,0,2801507.story

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The other major ruling today which hasn't been made yet is whether state expert witnesses will be allowed to testify about who was screaming in the background of a 911 call before Trayvon's shooting.

Trial starts Monday. I do not envy MIRT in the upcoming weeks.

Here is another link with same info, slightly different
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/21/zimmerman-prosecutors-can-use-profiling-and-other-terms

[onehandle]

1. MIRT's job would be easier, if the owners would carpet bomb one room. nt

[hlthe2b]

2. Can't be a lot worse than the months of NRA-promoted incursions...

But, yup, there will be lots of "newcomer" traffic.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. Zimmerman's OWN WORDS (on 911 recording) show that he was profiling Trayvon...

THAT SINGLE fact should CERTAINLY be introduced as evidence.

[Iliyah]

4. Voice Analyst Expert

as well. With only 6 jurors, one Latina and the rest middle to senior age, and no Blacks, and have read that with these jurors, this case will be a slam dunk for the defense, so every bit of evidence should be presented.

[movonne]

6. I read that one was a light skin black...Is that a

mistake...it is a Latina...

[Little Star]

8. I heard she was half black & half latino.

[JDPriestly]

7. Even though the evidence is strong, the prosecution has an uphill battle

because they have to have a unanimous jury to convict.

[pacalo]

14. I'm thinking the judge will allow voice analysts -- maybe excluding the one for the prosecution

(Reich) who is using new technology (?) -- based on the following excerpts:

The law states that, for technology to be admissible, it must be “generally accepted” in the particular field it's applied to. Zimmerman’s attorneys are arguing the technology does not satisfy that threshold.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/21/zimmerman-prosecutors-can-use-profiling-and-other-terms

Assistant State Attorney Richard Mantei told the judge on Thursday that the state's experts are using long-established techniques, and that Florida law supports letting them present their opinions.

"The evidence should be heard by the jury, and let them decide," Mantei said.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-911-screams-20130621,0,2801507.story

[Jackpine Radical]

16. So FL is a Frye state, not Daubert?

The law states that, for technology to be admissible, it must be “generally accepted” in the particular field it's applied to. Zimmerman’s attorneys are arguing the technology does not satisfy that threshold.

[pacalo]

20. FL law was changed to Daubert recently but it won't take effect until July 1.

I think that might be why O'Mara was pushing hard for a delay.

[grok]

22. My understanding is that Daubert is more flexible

Therefore it would logically be easier for the prosecution to include voice analysis.

However under appeal it may not matter since in my opinion the science is so very iffy anyway.

The real reason is more likely what O'Mara said. That there is still too much discovery that the defence had not had a chance to properly vet and analyze. Providing discovery at the last minute is a common trick that prosecutors often use. And it works.

Another issue is that by decisions on motions being delayed till after the trial has started already, is making it somewhat difficult for the defence to develop good trial strategy. If one doesn't know what the rules are, one has to be prepared for every contingency and that takes a lot of effort. Double the work.

[pacalo]

23. It's understandable that a judge would take extra care in making her decisions; her clerks are

trying to cover all the legal bases. O'Mara surely realizes the weight on the judge's shoulders when he files those motions.

[Lurks Often]

5. Don't see the audio clip about the screaming helping the prosecution

The defense has 4 witnesses, all with Ph D's in speech recognition or closely related fields, all considered experts in that field. One works for the FBI and one works or worked for NSA and all have said that the audio clip is too short and too poor of quality to determine who was screaming. The state's two experts lack the academic credentials of the defense experts and I believe that one of the people the state tried to use may have been dismissed by the judge as lacking the knowledge to testify.

And yes, I too think it is going to be rather interesting around in here during the trial.

On edit: A Frye Hearing or Frye test is s standard for admitting scientific evidence at trial
http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/frye-test/

[John2]

15. Regardless of what

anyone claims, that audio is evidence. I wouldn't care if the defense put up experts or the prosecution. What I'm claiming is the audio is firsthand evidence of the crime, and it should be the Jury making determination which side to believe whose voice it is. I heard it, and I don't have to be any expert to determine the voice was from an minor and not an adult male. There is only one side trying to keep it out. If the claim the voice can't be determined, then it doesn't prejudice either side to hear that evidence. The judge should let it in plain and simple, but it is clear evidence of a crime being committed.

Now he wants to claim self defense and his life was in danger from this kid manhandling him? If the jury wants to believe this man, given his past history, then let them be dumb enough to do so. He outweighed the kid also by 20 pounds or more at the time of the killing. There is nothing in Zimmerman's past that showed he was scared of physical confrontations. This is the same guy that wanted to be in law enforcement, and the claim is he was afraid of this encounter with a 17 year old kid? If there is any information whatsoever, Zimmerman was taught police tactics on self defense and firing a weapon, that should be part of the evidence. When I was in the military, we were taught crowd control and defense methods on subduing people. I don't believe Zimmerman thought his life was in danger for a second and was the aggressor from the first time he saw this kid. He was going to have a confrontation with that kid one way of the other, just from the hostile tone of first seeing him. He thought this kid was getting away with something.

Now I have served on guard duty a lot. I'm not going to single anybody out just because they are walking. They have to be doing something wrong. What Zimmerman did was wrong and hostile. Other people will do the same thing Zimmerman did to someone else if he gets off. Then people would need to carry guns for people like Zimmerman to even the odds, because they want be safe. As a Blackman, I would start carrying a gun for people like Zimmerman period!

[Lurks Often]

19. But what the audio clip is evidence of is the question.

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2013, 09:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Under Florida law, the analysis of an expert needs to pass the Frye test. If an expert is testifying, he or she is supposed to have knowledge and/or experience the average person does not have and it is entirely reasonable that the expert be able to prove his credentials.

What I believe the trial will boil down to is:
1. Who started the PHYSICAL altercation and
2. Did Zimmerman have a reasonable belief that he was in fear of death or grave bodily harm

Given the EMT's report here, starting on page 182
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf

his injuries are consistent with being struck in the nose and having his head struck against the pavement.

None of us here on DU have ALL of the facts and I am expecting there are going to be some shocks when it all does come out in the trial.

[pacalo]

21. This witness believed it was Trayvon's voice, too.

She's going to make a good witness for the prosecution.

[Little Star]

9. Did they say when the actual trial will begin? n/t

[uppityperson]

10. Monday. Nt

[Little Star]

12. TY

[pacalo]

11. It starts on Monday morning at 9 a.m. (eastern).

[Little Star]

13. TY

[AKing]

17. Headline News along with most central Florida stations will carry the opening statements live...

George Zimmerman trial to rearrange daytime lineup
[link:http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/blogs/tv-guy/os-george-zimmerman-trial-to-rearrange-daytime-20130621,0,3627724.post|

[pacalo]

18. Thank you. I've been watching the jury selection on one of the tv-station links.