Edward Snowden 'leaves Hong Kong on Moscow flight'

[Poll_Blind]

Source: BBC

United States intelligence fugitive Edward Snowden has left Hong Kong on a flight bound for Moscow, reports say.

The South China Morning Post, quoting what it says are credible sources, said he was due to arrive in Moscow on Sunday evening.

It said Moscow would not be his final destination.

Snowden, an intelligence analyst, fled to Hong Kong in May after revealing details of extensive internet and phone surveillance by the US gencies.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23019414

---

Nothing more at the moment.

PB

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. He's about to get some really good drugs

He might have been better off here.

[Hissyspit]

3. Iceland, probably.

[dkf]

2. Yay we forced him out of Hong Kong. What a brilliant tactic.

[coldbeer]

158. I have a good feeling and could care less about Snowden

I'm starting to like Russia. They are so consistent!!!

I was a forward observer in 1968/69 in Berlin. Thy called me F.O. The O meant OFF.
I fought with my FDR (fire direction center) because I wanted to hit a Russian
guard tower on the fence. They let me get to about 100M. I was watching the
guard. He had to be younger than me and I was twenty. I felt like him.

WTF I was drafted and he was conscripted? and it would have been so much
fun over a beer! I wish I could meet that evil commie today.

[SoapBox]

4. ROFLMAO

Hope you enjoy Siberia, Commrade Snowden!

...soon to be Putin's lap dog.

[dkf]

6. I bet he lands up in Iceland.

[jtuck004]

14. "...Putin's lap dog". Oh, that's bad. He could stay here and perhaps be treated like a real dog...

because we are such a great freedom-loving people, here, (and probably thousands of other places).

...
Torture at Guantanamo has been well documented. As Susan Crawford, the Bush Administration’s top official for reviewing practices at Guantanamo, said in January of 2009, “We tortured [Mohammed al-] Qahtani… His treatment met the legal definition of torture.” The military's own document show that he was "was forced to wear a woman's bra and had a thong placed on his head during the course of his interrogation" and "was told that his mother and sister were whores." With a leash tied to his chains, he was led around the room "and forced to perform a series of dog tricks…”
...

And, according to other sources, the prisoners now engaging in a hunger strike in protest of their continued captivity even after they have been found to be held for no reason, are having dog leashes attached to them and being led or pulled around by them.

Snowden might have to live in an apartment and get a job. What a horrible future, living with those commies.

[gholtron]

18. I hope he likes Volka.

No telling how much classified documents he has given to China and Russia that was not related to the NSA.
Ron Paul and his crowd will be very proud of him. He is doing a great service to our country while being in Russia with US classified documents.

sarcasm

[jtuck004]

24. Yeah, hope he doesn't tell them exactly how we are killing innocent children in Afghanistan while

trying to blow up people with our drones that we think might possibly resemble terrorists. I think the last count was over 200 dead kids.

Lots of important secrets here...

[gholtron]

27. oh don't worry.

His drone is resdy fir tske off. I hope they don't miss.

[jtuck004]

37. Any children standing nearby should take cover, based on our success so far. n/t

[treestar]

106. Because Russia would never do such things eom

[gholtron]

29. Russia, and China are

Great humanitarian countries. They will never do anything that would violate human rights.

sarcasm

[jtuck004]

36. We should know, being the keepers of the flame and all, eh? We killed perhaps

6-10 million indigenous people just to start, which kind of takes us off the high ground.

[gholtron]

69. Then you should join your hero

Where ever he is.

[premium]

87. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm? nt.

[jtuck004]

95. And leave this place to TWWBT? Now what fun would that be?

[EX500rider]

108. By we you mean the Spanish or disease? n/t

[jtuck004]

111. By we I mean the people that benefited from their death, along with things like

passing out smallpox infested blankets that we hoped would kill them, a little cannibalism, etc. Just like we didn't practice slavery but are the beneficiaries of it.

I'm sure you are familiar with the concept.

Oh yeah - "the Spanish?" Who the fuck do you think we were?

[RiverNoord]

128. I don't think that, on the whole

'we' are the beneficiaries of slavery. Very substantial portions of the South were decimated during the Civil War, and the cost in soldiers and civilians lives was massive. The northern states that managed to avoid much infrastructure damage probably did retain much in the way of benefits of slavery, but, on the balance of things, it's quite debatable.

Of course, if 'we' includes ancestors of slaves, then the balance tips quite markedly against 'us' being beneficiaries of slavery.

[jtuck004]

133. I expect a thieving pawn shop owner employs the same twisted logic to sell stolen merchandise,

under the presumption that since the clerk didn't do the actual break-in they must in no way be accountable.

[premium]

86. As opposed to ours.

Right?

[90-percent]

94. Drone death statistics

Here's some remarkable information about America's drone program. This one poor soul unto himself is responsible for 1626 deaths, working for the U.S. as a contractor, no less!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11794063

On the one hand, I think our national security state is based on the urgent need to avoid another large scale terrorist attack on the U.S.A. Can you imagine Fox News coverage if we receive another mass murdering terrorist attack? Impeachment would be too good for Obama. He'd be drawn and quartered on live TV if large scale terrorism to the U.S. happened on his watch.

OTOH - The U.S.A. is guaranteed to be afraid of decades of BLOWBACK as a direct result of the mass murders of our drone program.

It's my understanding that once a week, Obama sets aside an hour or two for personally selecting those to be droned. I think he should invite somebody like Dianne Sawyer and do a TV special while he's personally supervising murder by drone.

So, my conclusion is that our anti-terror program is really engineered to create even more terrorism so that more bricks can be added to our national security wall and engorge our military-industrial-congressional-security-complex until 3/4 of our GDP is going to defense contractors.

-90% Jimmy

[jtuck004]

96. "our anti-terror program is really engineered to create even more terrorism" <- this. +1 n/t

[bemildred]

100. Exactly, the same way the Drug War incentivizes drug production and a lucrative black market.

Thereby insuring the employment of the Drug Warriors and a massive influx of drugs into the country.

[toby jo]

125. Bullshit. They are not intentionally trying to engorge our defense. It's an unintended consequence

of thoughtless and greedy behavior.

Same result, different drive.

Know your drivers, affect a cure.

[90-percent]

141. I agree with you in part

I think the PDB are thoughtless and greedy, and stupid besides.

But I do not think the recent growth of the military-industrial-congressional-security-complex since 9-11 is mere serendipity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Defense_Spending_Trends.png

They want more for them and less for us and they're doing a great job getting what they want, even if they aren't doing it by a massive Dr. Evil conspiracy.

Greedy sociopathic motherfuckers all think alike.

-90% Jimmy

[JDPriestly]

137. What if we had simply announced that we were doing the surveillance?

What if we had really bothered to get subpoenas based on probably cause and opened up the FISA court papers so that the world could know what we were doing?

We would not have had to open the FISA court papers immediately. We could have released the FISA court papers, say within three months after filing. That would have been a program that gave notice and the opportunity to innocent people who might be injured by the program to be heard in a court to challenge the allegations in the papers.

This was done in a sneaky way. It might even have been more effective against terrorists had it been more open to review. The focus on terrorism would have been assured.

But no, our NSA likes to be sneaky. Being sneaky makes it feel powerful. The NSA has created an elite of questionable morals to review the transactions and communications of the rest of the world. That is a giant step toward a dictatorship. It's simply wrong.

A conspiracy such as "terrorism" is often used as the excuse for creating a dictatorship to "protect" the people. That the conspiracy of terrorists is used as a cover for creating a dictatorship does not mean that the conspiracy of terrorism does not exist.

Hitler used the conspiracy of communism, a very real threat at the time, as the excuse for creating his dictatorship to protect the German people. He also told them that they were exceptional. They were the superior race, the Germans. In fact, Hitler was creating an elite in the society that put everyone else under surveillance. This story is repeated over and over in history

It is so flattering to feel that you are part of the elite, the people chosen to protect your country and thus to be better than the rest. This is nothing new. Rome had its centurions and its slaves. Great Britain had its lords and serfs. Russia its tsars and their inner circle and then the serfs. Stalin had his KGB and then everyone else.

There is always an elite that is entitled to know more and to be more cruel all in the name of protecting the people. Old hat.

What fools in our NSA to think they could pull this on us. And they will probably succeed because a lot of Republicans are on their side as is Nancy Pelosi among other Democrats.

[ljm2002]

116. So I guessed you missed this bit...

..."It said Moscow would not be his final destination."

BTW it was bolded in the OP too.

[Tx4obama]

5. I wonder if after Russia he will head on over to North Korea

I hope Russia sends him back to The USA.

Snowden is a scumbag!!!

[SummerSnow]

10. Maybe hes picking up that Superbowl ring and dropping it off here next stop

[ReRe]

13. Our law-breaking intel systems & their leaders in this country....

... are the scumbags. Had they been doing the right thing from the beginning, none of this would be happening.

[gholtron]

19. Ahh Home sweet home

There's a Big Banner at the Moscow airport that reads Welcome Home Comrade. He will be given a Hero's welcome with parades and praise.. I wonder if he'll get a job with the Russian Intelligence Agency and reveal their secrets

[newthinking]

22. ignorance? Russia is no longer communist.

I guess I should not be surprised that there are Americans who still don't know that Russia is no longer communist. We are so ignorant of the rest of the world.

[gholtron]

25. Point out where I said Russia is Communist

Never the less. He's still a traitor.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

50. Lindsay Graham, Michelle Bachmann or Dick Cheney, is that you?

[gholtron]

68. Glen Beck. is that you?

[premium]

88. Is that you Mike Rogers? nt.

[TheMadMonk]

102. When you used the word "Comrade".

And the true traitors are those who would excuse the inexcusable simply because right now, it's their man doing it.

[gholtron]

115. This ASSHOLE who you call Hero

Stoled multiple computers with information that had NOTHING to do with NSA spying. He released information about the spying that we already know so to make other gullible people like you to have sympathy on him. Unlike other so called "whistle blowers" he ran. Now he is in Russia making deals with Putin. Even your beloved Rand Paul diapproved of him in Russia. I hope they throw his traitorous ass in prison and he rots in Hell there after.

[TheMadMonk]

131. Point 1. I have NEVER characterised Mr Snowden as a "hero".

And in fact I do not believe, I've even said anything which could be properly characterised as defense of Mr Snowden's actions. Virtually everything I have had to say on the subject has been a condemnation of what he's revealed, and of the people behind it.

Really, he walked multiple computers out of a secure facility? What was his excuse? "It's got a virus on it. Taking it home for 'The Kid' to fix."

My understanding is he carried out the information on a thumb drive, and I'm going to go right out on a limb here and say most likely he purchased it himself and did not sign it out of the stationary cupboard.

As for what other than the NSA spying info he took, do you know that for a fact? Or are you taking the NSA's/Administration's word that he took other information, presumably to be used to buy the protection of a hostile foreign power?

So far all I've seen is revelation/confirmation of Bush Administration programs which the current administration condemned vociferously and promised to dismantle whilst in campaign mode, but immediately embraced and expanded as soon as it took power.

In Russia making deals? FFS find another drum to beat. The skin on that one split days ago. Naming no names, I've seen multiple allusions to Mr Snowden being worse than the worst ever imagined by McCarthy. Repeated allusions that he is actively working to bring down the good ole USA by making a grand tour of the Axis of evil, after first selling out to the USA's more traditional enemies.

My beloved Rand Paul? May I refer to your beloved Kristol, Kagan, Wolfowitz? Since you are so clearly enamoured of policies and programs which came straight from their manifesto for world hegemony under US rule.

So far, I'm not seeing a great deal of harm to America or her genuine interests, just a lot of embarrassment for a small handful of Americans.

If you don't think it's right for the 1% to lord it over you lot, (the basic DU position) don't you think we in the rest of the world are entitled to the opinion that the FUCKING US of A has no right to lord it over us?

[gholtron]

160. Edward Snowden is an opportunist and a Fucking traitor.

You said "Really, he walked multiple computers out of a secure facility? What was his excuse? "It's got a virus on it. Taking it home for 'The Kid' to fix." 

My link to support what I said
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-nsa-files-timeline

This traitor sole purpose was to intentionally steal classified information to release it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/06/24/edward-snowden-nsa-leaker-russia-cuba-flight-asylum-ecuador/2451403/

Now that he supposely landed in Moscow. Do you think that the Russian equivalent of the KGB are not going to interview him? Those computers can according to the traitor, access the NSA servers.

Now they can't find him. Suppose either the Russian or the Chinese have detained him or worse killed him to get their hands on computers? The first thing people on here will suspect that the NSAhas killed him. My bet is that you will never hear from him again and the computers that he has stolen will end up in either China or Russia.

[TheMadMonk]

162. He CARRIED. No mention whatsoever of their provenance.

"He carries four laptop computers that enable him to gain access to some of the US government's most highly-classified secrets."

Ok, parsed at face value, what that says is that the US govt's most highly classified secrets are either on computers directly connected to the internet, or at best lie behind a dialup modem. What that says is that one of THOSE laptops falling into the wrong hands would expose the secrets of an agency so clandestine, that for a long time the joke ran that NSA stood for No Such Agency.

Somehow I find that doubtful. First of all, such a super-spy laptop (if it existed at all) would have to be activated/registered as an authorised agent before it could connect at all, and it's credentials would be revoked the moment the NSA learnt it was no longer in their control. And just for for some Mr Phelps type fun, any attempt to connect a laptop with revoked credentials would result in an oxygen generator (hot wire in a capsule of mercuric oxide would do it) being activated inside the battery, causing it to catch fire explosively.

OR

We might just assume he carried four laptops because he's a geek, and maybe has them set up in such a way that all four are needed to access the "liberated" data.


As for his non-appearance on a plane loaded up with 150 odd journalists, well there's 150 reasons not to board right there. There's 150 reasons for the plane's captain to say, "NOT ON MY FUCKING PLANE!" Could you imagine that sort of media scrum at 10,000 metres?

Supposedly he's in the company of several Wikileaks lawyers, not only would he have to disappear, but them too. And now we are starting to talk SERIOUS INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT. The sort of incident which would shift the focus away from the leaks, and have Fox (et al) pounding war drums.

Perhaps it might be an idea to wait at least a little bit, to see what happens next.

[gholtron]

163. It is clear that he is an opportunist

and a traitor. You can store tons of data on Notebooks. If he knew those computers were going to be useless then why take them? What other sensitive information are on those computers? Why did he go to Hong Kong of all places? He could have made his revelations being anonymous through Wikileaks then drum up support for from the public to pay for his lawyer. Then he allegedly said that he join just to steal information about the spying. He didn't point out any laws that were broken. What he presented about the program was already known. We may not like the law but it is the law until either Congress repeals it or the Supreme Court says it is unconstitutional and not a bunch of yahoos that are not on the Supreme Court. I would have more respect for him if he stayed here and gone to Senator Wyden or other Democratic Congress representatives. He didn't even make an efford to do so. So this was a calculated move to steal information and hardware and flee to a country that is controlled by China. To me that is a coward and a traitor. True heros and Patriots don't leave the country they love. I hope he gets caught and tried and rot in prison.

[roomtomove]

171. I would have more respect for him if he stayed here

You are kidding aren't you? Solitary confinement and physcological torture ala Bradley Manning and a trial in a Kangaroo Military Court? You are kidding aren't you? I suspect that either you are or you are totally ignorant or part of the mob mentality that wants him hanged without really knowing what he did. You don't know what he took do you. You remind me of a southern rascist lynchg mob, or a more contemporary refetrence, blind media follower, without reference to my favorite media outlet, as in this case they are all spouting the government line. I supect he collected phone numbers from the NSA data base, including YOURS.

[gholtron]

172. Yes. That's what happens when steal

classified information and distribute it. You paid the consequences. What did you expect to happen? A pat on the back? Had he approched let's Senator Paul or his father or gone through the right channl then maybe he can be protected.

[Nihil]

159. Oh no! He "Stoled multiple computers"?!

"to have sympathy on him"



"diapproved of him"



Go get a cloth to wipe your spittle off the monitor (or get your Mom to do it for you).

"In-store cleaner to aisle 3 - freeper meltdown in progress."

[gholtron]

161. Yeah keep laughing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-nsa-files-timeline

[dipsydoodle]

164. We will

.

[gholtron]

165. well guess what?

He just showed the Russian and the Chinese how to read your emails and to listen in on your phone calls.
That should be fucking hilarious.

[dipsydoodle]

167. And that should concern me ?

I'm UK and I sincerely doubt they would find anything of interest unless they have an unusual interest in antique banjos.

If he has shown them the tricks then good on him - it helps levels the playing field.

[roomtomove]

170. I wonder who the real asshole is.

YOU.

[alarimer]

150. It's our president who is the traitor- to his promises and his party.

Let's not lose focus on the TRUE evil here: the very existence of programs like PRISM and the gathering of phone information.

"It's okay if you're a Democrat" doesn't wash with me and shouldn't wash with anyone.

Personally I hope he gets away scot-free. I want Obama to have egg on his face over this. This president has used the Espionage Act more times than any other in history, an act, by the way, that was intended originally to suppress dissent. Now, as far as I know, this guy has done nothing more than tell the world the evil our government is doing. He hasn't sold secrets to any other country, nor is he working for any other country as far as I know. Seems a stretch to call it espionage.

And these charges are just an attempt to cover up government wrong-doing. As far as I am concerned, the whole national security state, from the President on down, is a criminal enterprise. They simply change the law to make it "legal".

[gholtron]

157. The collection of Metadata

Does not violate the 4th . Look it up. Secondly this traitor took claasified information and fled to another country. He exposed secrets about what we're doing to the Chinese and the Russian. I don't give a shit if you want to blame the President. He took and oath to protect us. This asshole traitor that you call hero is using you. Real heros don't cut and run.

[zx10r_liberal]

109. I will relay this message for you

От одной к другой американской, спасибо г-н Сноуден, открывшему нам глаза моего друга. Пожалуйста, будьте осторожны.

[bitchkitty]

124. Да! n/t

[YOHABLO]

153. You used the term ''commrade'' I think that's justification.

[Kolesar]

60. товарищ, then

Tovarishch

[MADem]

144. That just means "comrade." PECTOPAH means restaurant--that always made me laugh. nt

[ljm2002]

117. So you too must have missed this bit...

..."It said Moscow would not be his final destination."

BTW it was bolded in the OP too.

[gholtron]

118. Where the hell did he fly to?

Do you actually think the KGB is not talking to him now?
Please tell me that you are not that stupid.

[ljm2002]

120. I'm not as stupid as you, no. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

122. Since the KGB was disbanded when the Soviet Union ended, I think you're wrong

But then, most of your posts have looked about 23 years out of date.

[Starboard Tack]

136. The KGB? What century are you living in?

[gholtron]

21. of course

He needs to spread the love to all the communist countries because those countries never would spy on their citizens.

sarcasm

[roomtomove]

168. I wonder who the real scumbag is

Your post sounds like an emotional teabag response. Is it?

[Tx4obama]

169. Here's a bit of free advice...

You should hang out at DU a bit longer and get to know the people around here before you start throwing out false accusations.

[Union Scribe]

7. My God....now he's a Russian spy, too! nt

[99th_Monkey]

139. And soon to become "an Icelandic" spy as well.

at least hopefully, he finds the permanent sanctuary he so richly deserves,
rather than a lifetime in prisons or worse.

[Tx4obama]

8. An AP link

They don't have much yet, the whole thing below.

Hong Kong says that Snowden has left for a "third country"

HONG KONG (AP) — Hong Kong says that Snowden has left for a "third country"

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/hong-kong-says-snowden-has-left-third-country

[Tx4obama]

9. More from the AP via HuffPo

Hong Kong says Snowden has left for third country

June 23, 2013 04:16 AM EST | AP

HONG KONG — The Hong Kong government says a former National Security Agency contractor wanted by the U.S. for revealing two highly classified surveillance programs has left for a "third country."

The South China Morning Post reported Sunday that Edward Snowden was on a plane for Moscow, but that Russia was not his final destination. Snowden has talked of seeking asylum in Iceland.

Hong Kong said in a statement that it allowed Snowden to leave despite an extradition request from the U.S. because documents provided by the U.S. government did not "fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law."

It said there was no legal basis to stop Snowden from leaving.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130623/as-nsa-surveillance-hong-kong/?utm_hp_ref=homepage&ir=homepage

[Kablooie]

11. Hong Kong probably put him on the plane so they wouldn't have to deal with the US.

[leveymg]

55. Interesting. He could have taken the ferry to Mainland China.

Guess he just wanted to travel a bit.

[Fearless]

12. Well I'm glad that we won't be starting

Armed conflict with China over him. That's a plus. Perhaps we'll invade Iceland. Or just organize drone strikes over its borders. Can't wait for that one!

[RKP5637]

71. US will do a drone strike on Russia and start WW III. Weird shit happens ... n/t

[Tx4obama]

15. HKSAR Government issues statement on Edward Snowden

The HKSAR Government today (June 23) issued the following statement on Mr Edward Snowden:

Mr Edward Snowden left Hong Kong today (June 23) on his own accord for a third country through a lawful and normal channel.

The US Government earlier on made a request to the HKSAR Government for the issue of a provisional warrant of arrest against Mr Snowden. Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the HKSAR Government has requested the US Government to provide additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government's request can meet the relevant legal conditions. As the HKSAR Government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.

The HKSAR Government has already informed the US Government of Mr Snowden's departure.

Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong.
Ends/Sunday, June 23, 2013
Issued at HKT 16:05

http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201306/23/P201306230476.htm

[DeSwiss]

16. You can tell the magic was gone when they last met.....

- K&R

[East Coast Pirate]

46. Worst Superbowl party ever.

[RKP5637]

75. Awful lot of body language going one ... a case study picture to say the

least ... folded arms across the chest would up it one or two more notches ...

[Hissyspit]

17. WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 2m FLASH: WikiLeaks has assisted Mr. Snowden's political asylum in a democrati

WikiLeaks ?@wikileaks 2m
FLASH: WikiLeaks has assisted Mr. Snowden's political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers ans safe exit from Hong Kong. More soon.

[bitchkitty]

20. Some of the posts on this thread

remind me of teabaggers. There are some shockingly ignorant people here.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

34. It's times like this -

that expose the true character of folks. Over the many, many years I have been here it has happened repeatedly, and I am always shocked to see where some "Democrats" end up on the Issues.

[East Coast Pirate]

48. My grandmother was a lifelong Democrat and she was as racist as they come.

Democrat does not necessarily equal liberal.

[treestar]

107. So this means one has to be in favor of Snowden's actions

or they cannot call themselves a liberal?

[East Coast Pirate]

110. No.

[JusticeForAll]

66. +1 bk

It's unreal how quick they are to forgo their "freedoms" in order to defend some facade of patriotism.

Edited to add quotes.

[Hissyspit]

23. @wikileaks 19s FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by Wiki

WikiLeaks ?@wikileaks 19s
FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors.

[steve2470]

26. going to Cuba ??

8 MINUTES AGO
Snowden has 'Moscow to Cuba plane ticket'
There is a ticket in Edward Snowden's name for a Moscow to Cuba flight, according to news agency Interfax citing a source at Russian airline Aeroflot.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-06-21/gchq-tapped-data-cables/

[steve2470]

28. Venezuela ?

06/23 13:36 SNOWDEN'S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA - SOURCE


http://www.interfax.com/

[Hissyspit]

30. Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 1m The fact that a person flies to City X

Glenn Greenwald ?@ggreenwald 1m
The fact that a person flies to City X does not mean that is their intended ultimate destination

[savalez]

114. Thank goodness greenwald cleared that up!

Now I no longer have to insist on non-stop flights.

[Hissyspit]

140. Apparently he needed to for some people.

[Hissyspit]

31. @RT_com 8m UPDATE: #Snowden to take SU150 flight to Havana tomorrow, then flies to Caracas

RT ?@RT_com 8m
UPDATE: #Snowden to take SU150 flight to Havana tomorrow, then flies to Caracas with local airline via @ITARTASS_news http://on.rt.com/jqm8cb

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. I wonder how much of this -

is subterfuge meant to distract from where he is really going?

[RKP5637]

76. +1, n/t

[bemildred]

99. All of it. nt

[MADem]

39. Gives him plenty of time to "brief" his Russian friends.

Plane tickets cost money, after all...and so do connections and hook-ups.

[Hissyspit]

43. Wait, I thought it was the Chinese?

[MADem]

45. He's in Russia now, with his four laptops full of goodies.

Santa Snowden could be giving out gifts to all the good little boys and girls.

He doesn't leave for Cuba--wonder if they'll get a brief, too?--until tomorrow. Plenty of time to have a nice chat.

[Hissyspit]

47. Or maybe none of that will happen.

But I get the feeling it doesn't matter if it does or not...

[MADem]

49. Love does not make the world go round...but quid pro quo certainly does. nt

[East Coast Pirate]

51. Bullshit makes the world go round.

- Fonzie Fonzarelli

[MADem]

53. Gosh, I missed that particular Happy Days episode...nt

[Bluenorthwest]

91. That should not stop you reporting on it. All of your posts in this subthread are made up

ravings based on fantasy. Why not continue with Fonzie?

[MADem]

143. Well, aren't YOU a charmer! That'll fix MY little red wagon, I tell you what!

You reveal far more about yourself than you realize when you lash out like that.

When have I ever insulted you, gone after you as a person with lame and failed belittling comments, or called you a mad raver who bases your opinions on fantasy? Hmmm?

Why do you even feel a need to go there? Perhaps because you can't discuss an issue like a normal, civil adult?

I am at a complete loss as to why you are behaving this way--I can only feel pity for you.

[I love weed]

81. It's worth it.

This sick evil had to be exposed.

[MADem]

142. Welcome to DU. Your user name is a bit of a caricature.

Did you join up just to talk about this issue?

[totodeinhere]

97. His travel is being assisted by a group affiliated with WikiLeaks according to

HuffPost. I doubt if the Russians are financing him. And besides even if he does give them information don't the Russians deserve to know the extent to which we are illegally spying on them?

[MADem]

138. When do you think the Chinese are going to tell us what Unit 61398 got from US computers,

including, quite possibly, yours? Do you think they got that information "legally?"

[totodeinhere]

145. That has nothing to do with Snowden. Why do you want to change the subject? n/t

[MADem]

146. It has everything to do with Snowden.

But if you don't want to play the "connect the dots" game, I can't make you.

[totodeinhere]

147. Snowden had nothing to do with the incident you mentioned.

And he had nothing to do with a lot of illegal activity carried out by our government as well.

[MADem]

148. Odds are good he wouldn't have gotten his job had not Unit 61398 not been formed.

Outsourcing happens when an entity can't do their job in-house because there's too much workload.

A big piece of that workload comes out of a neighborhood on the outskirts of Shanghai.

[Kolesar]

40. Then me and Mick are going to wing on over to London and jam with the 'Stones!

[Ellipsis]

52. Looks like via Iceland

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/su150

[East Coast Pirate]

32. Run, Eddie, run!

[Kolesar]

41. When duz I gut to meet Presnit Kennedy? . .. ... .. . n/t

[steve2470]

35. already in Moscow ??? per RT.....

BREAKING NEWS
RT SOURCE: NSA LEAKER SNOWDEN IS ALREADY IN MOSCOW

http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly-moscow-aeroflot-125/

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. Though all the rest of their report agrees with everyone else he's still flying

on SU213. Live flight position: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/su213

[steve2470]

42. Snowden has no Russian visa, it will wait for the flight to Havana at the transit hall "Sheremetyevo

http://translate.google.com.au/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interfax.ru%2Fworld%2Fnews.asp%3Fid%3D314292&act=url

or

http://www.interfax.ru/world/news.asp?id=314292

[steve2470]

44. "This indicates that Russian law enforcement bodies, most likely will not delay (Snowden)"

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://interfax.ru/world/news.asp%3Fid%3D314291&usg=ALkJrhjjhRpBcx_EXhPaVMCBrSABxvn_tg

or

http://www.interfax.ru/world/news.asp?id=314291


Moscow. June 23. INTERFAX.RU - The public part of the international investigation Interpol database, which can be viewed on his website Interpol.int Contains no data on former CIA officer Edward Snowden, who accused the U.S. intelligence agencies in the illegal wiretapping.


This indicates that Russian law enforcement bodies, most likely will not delay the ex-agent, which is expected to arrive late Sunday in Moscow for subsequent flight to a third country. This version is the fact that the U.S. authorities did not make official statements declaring E.Snoudena an international arrest warrant through Interpol.


At the same time, the U.S. government could announce E.Snoudena the international wanted list, and only use the channels for the exchange of information and not reporting it to the press.


In this case, the law enforcement agencies of Russia, as a member country of Interpol, are obliged to detain the former spy upon arrival to our country.

[leveymg]

56. Is E. Snoudena the third-country? Just kidding.

[steve2470]

57. yea I saw that too :) nt

[leveymg]

58. Just might stick, if he stays in Moscow.

[Berlin Expat]

59. That article raises

a good point: Snowden could be on the Interpol list and the Feds simply never went public with that. There's a part of Interpol that's open to the public, but most of it isn't.

If he's on the Interpol list, the Russians would have to detain him...... and an Interpol flag would show up at Customs and Immigration in Russia.

[steve2470]

61. good points, thanks nt

[cosmicone]

90. Unless Russia grants him an asylum

whether temporary or permanent.

Interpol red corners are not absolute and many interpol members refuse to honor certain entries if deemed to be an abuse of power or political persecution.

[totodeinhere]

98. The Russians could probably find a basis for ignoring an Interpol flag if they

feel that it is in their best interest to do so. And I suspect that the WikiLeaks affiliated group that is assisting Snowden is aware of any possibility and is making provisions for it.

And even if the Russians did detain him they do not have an extradition treaty with the US and would be under no legal obligation to extradite him.

[Cleita]

54. Here's another report.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/23/19098016-snowden-on-the-run-again-leaves-hong-kong?lite

Snowden on the run again, leaves Hong Kong

By F. Brinley Bruton, Staff Writer, NBC News

HONG KONG - Edward Snowden, a former contractor for the National Security Agency charged with espionage, was allowed to leave Hong Kong on Sunday because the U.S. extradition request did not comply with the law, the Hong Kong government said.

"Mr Edward Snowden left Hong Kong today (June 23) on his own accord for a third country through a lawful and normal channel," the government said in a statement.

A statement did not identify the country, but the South China Morning Post newspaper earlier reported that Snowden had left on a flight for Moscow. Snowden has talked of seeking asylum in Iceland.

Meanwhile, WikiLeaks, the whistle-blowing group led by Julian Assange, said it was helping Snowdwn gain political asylum in a "democratic country." The organization also said it had arranged Snowden's "safe exit from Hong Kong" and that he was being accompanied by Wikileaks legal advisers.

more at link

[steve2470]

62. "We will continue to discuss this matter with Hong Kong and pursue relevant law enforcement.........

1357: "We will continue to discuss this matter with Hong Kong and pursue relevant law enforcement co-operation with other countries where Mr Snowden may be attempting to travel," said spokeswoman Nanda Chitre.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23021237#TWEET799089

BBC Breaking News ?@BBCBreaking 59s
US justice department says it will seek legal co-operation with countries where fugitive #Snowden attempts to travel http://bbc.in/12WLPzx
Collapse Reply Retweet Favorite More

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking

[steve2470]

63. waiting for Snowden in Moscow:

Irina Galushko at Moscow airport tweets: Waiting for #Snowden - a crowd of journos and confused passengers pic.twitter.com/r8vM1RsKXM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23021237#TWEET799089

https://twitter.com/IrinaGalushkoRT/status/348784524987101184/photo/1

[steve2470]

64. Snowden in Moscow per airport

BREAKING NEWS The plane believed to be carrying Edward Snowden has landed in Moscow, says airport.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23021237#TWEET799089

[steve2470]

65. Snowden's flight from Hong Kong has touched down in Moscow, according to the New York Times....

Snowden's flight from Hong Kong has touched down in Moscow, according to the New York Times correspondent in the city.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-live

[Lugal Zaggesi]

67. Washington was trying to extradite Mr Snowden on charges of espionage

but Hong Kong said it had not met the requirements

LOL

"We believe that the charges presented, present a good case for extradition under the treaty, the extradition treaty between the United States and Hong Kong," Donilon told CBS Radio News White House correspondent Mark Knoller. "Hong Kong has been a historically good partner of the United States in law enforcement matters, and we expect them to comply with the treaty in this case."

Yeah, I didn't think that was going to work.

[steve2470]

70. Vans belonging to Russian presidential administration waiting by Aeroflot jets pic.twitter.com/f2THV

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-live

:large

[Lugal Zaggesi]

73. Ed is no Gerard Depardieu

but he'll still get a nice little reception before he continues on his way.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/french-actor-depardieu-gets-russian-home-address/475965.html

[steve2470]

72. RT live video

http://rt.com/on-air/

[steve2470]

74. Various tweets are citing Russia's Interfax news agency as saying Snowden was met on the airport....

Various tweets are citing Russia's Interfax news agency as saying Snowden was met on the airport tarmac by a Venezuelan diplomat, who took him away in a car.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-live

[steve2470]

78. Interfax: Snowden overnights at Venezuelan embassy. Diplomatic car from plane to embassy............

Interfax: Snowden overnights at Venezuelan embassy. Diplomatic car from plane to embassy. Formally never steps in #Russia, so no visa needed

https://twitter.com/WilliamsJon

06/23 17:37 Snowden may spend the night at Venezuelan embassy before flying to Havana - source

http://interfax.com/news.asp

[Daniel537]

77. Wherever he ends up, i wish him nothing but the best.

My personal advice, go to Cuba. Great weather, and extradition is not even in the cards.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

79. 55 journalists murdered in Russia since 1992

http://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/

This guy continues to take his case for privacy rights and freedom and all that to strange places. Very strange places.

[I love weed]

83. What is he supposed to do?

Go to a country that will send him back to the US, where he will spend the rest of his life in a government prison being physically and psychologically tortured? (And that is what will happen.)

Who the hell would willingly subject themselves to that? You sure as hell wouldn't, and neither would I. The US government's immediate cries of treason and prosecution left him with no other options.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

85. What he needed to do was pretty simple,

stop talking re US hacking China or anyone else. If his beef was on domestic spying and his libertarian ideals re that, which is actually a good case, why pollute the water with all this other stuff? That was monumentally stupid. Everything he's done since pointing out the domestic angle to his NSA beef has undercut his credibility. Any headline with Moscow in it doesn't advance his case, which I think I illustrated quite well just now. Even less for any with Havana in it, and Caracas is only one tiny step above that, if at all, in the eyes of most of the US public (whether they deserve it or not).
His rationale for going to HK was a good one, and if he stayed there the HK gov could have dragged things out for years. I'm not sure where he is going to wind up now, but the only good choice is Iceland, if they take him. Cuba isn't good because within the next 10 years it will be back under the control of the US. Venezuela is still a democracy, and Maduro didn't win the last election by much. If a new one were held now it would be a toss up as to whether he stays in office, and once he goes, so too does Snowden's shelter. What's Maduro going to do if the US decides to cut off Venezuelan oil purchases due to this? Most of their oil comes to this country. These are things he needs to consider.
My point here is Snowden made a good move going to HK, but everything he's done since then has not been wise. He needed to keep to the narrow case of domestic spying so as to keep the charge of traitor as far away as possible. Beyond that, he needs to choose what country he lands in very carefully, because a good choice this year may easily not be one next year. And winding up in either Venezuela - Chavez had an 8% approval rating in the US last I looked, and Maduro's, to the extent he's known, is probably even lower - or Cuba only increases the odor of "traitor" around his name, and puts him in a very insecure position. For a chess enthusiast, he doesn't seem to be thinking more than two moves ahead, which if you're up against a good player, is careless. Especially if the player is good and already has a couple of pieces on you, and I think we can all agree the USG has a few more resources than Snowden.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

92. "What's Maduro going to do if the US decides to cut off Venezuelan oil purchases due to this?"

Sell it to China.

Venezuela has been HOPING to get out of the longterm contracts it has to supply the USA.
And when the US threatened "sanctions" because it was not happy with Capriles losing the recent election, Maduro threatened to cut off all oil sales to the USA.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/15/venezuela-election-oil-idUSL1N0C69N220130315

Turning away from the United States, the traditional top buyer of Venezuelan oil, Chavez also sharply increased fuel sales to China and turned Beijing into his government's biggest source of foreign funding.

"We are not going to change one iota of the fundamental themes of President Chavez's policies," Energy Minister Rafael Ramirez said in a recent interview with a local TV station.

"We have a very important strategic relationship with China, which we're going to continue deepening and cultivating. It's the same with our cooperation with Russia ... Chavez's policies are more alive than ever, and we will push ahead with them."

[Benton D Struckcheon]

93. That's a joke.

I know all about that, and citing that is just, well, words fail me. If you really believe Venezuela could get along fine without the US purchasing their oil you're not living in the real world. To the US it would be a major inconvenience. But for Venezuela, it would be crippling.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

123. LOL

What color is the sky in your fantasy world, where Venezuela "needs" to sell oil to the USA ?
The Monroe Doctrine is long dead.
Care to guess what oil sales will be in 2020 ?

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Venezuela-Ramps-up-China-Oil-Exports-Unsettling-Washington.html

Despite the primacy of Venezuelan oil sales to the U.S. Caracas is shifting gears, and China will soon to become Venezuela’s main trade partner, with oil sales surging 60 percent in 2012.

During a recent interview Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez said, “We are selling 640.000 barrels of petrol per day to China.” This is now equivalent to 2/3 of Venezuela’s oil exports to the U.S., up from 400,000 barrels per day in February. For those with a sense of history, before President Chavez took office in 1999, Venezuela did not ship oil to China, but Chavez has stated that by 2015 he intends to ramp up Venezuelan oil exports to China to one million barrels of crude per day. According to Ramirez, the rise in exports will come from increased production in the natural resource-rich Orinoco Oil Belt in the east of the country.

Again, those with a sense of history might note that the year Chavez took office, Venezuela exported to the U.S. market 1.5 million bpd.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=338267&CategoryId=10717

Figures from the Energy Information Administration (EIA) at the United States Department of Energy show that Venezuelan oil shipments to the United States fell in April to what’s reckoned to be the lowest recorded level for 18 years.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

126. Yeah yeah yeah

Whatevs. Their output is around 2.3 million or so. 640,000 is nice but hardly means they wouldn't be crippled if they lost their exports to the US. Maybe in a few years, but even so, they are always facing the problem that, unlike Ecuador, they're not on the Pacific. The other major problem they face, of course, is that unlike Ecuador, they are entirely dependent on oil for their export earnings, a problem no Venezuelan pol of any political stripe seems to acknowledge. From my travels here on DU, the folks who idolize Chavez seem not to understand that Venezuela doesn't have anything remotely resembling a self-sustaining economy. If the oil price drops tomorrow to 60 or so, they're broke. That's their main problem, and always will be.
As for the US, that grade of crude can come from any number of sources. Venezuela is convenient, but not necessary.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

132. You're right

Venezuela would be wise to ramp up their business with China,
and decrease their business with the USA,
since the USA is well known for using "sanctions" as one of their bullying tactics to get political/economic results - eh, Tehran?

Did you read the link I gave?
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=338267&CategoryId=10717

Caracas, Sunday June 23,2013
Crude oil shipments to the United States dropped in April to 803,000 bpd, from 949,000 bpd in March. More significantly, perhaps, April crude exports were significantly below the 1,019,000 bpd recorded in the same month last year.

With domestic demand accounting for around 500,000 bpd, and March exports unofficially estimated at between 2.1 million bpd and 2.2 million bpd, the suggestion is that production can’t actually be running at more than 2.6 million bpd and 2.7 million bpd at most.

Exports at 2.2 million barrels per day, with the USA getting 0.8 million bpd.
Yup, Venezuela will have to work to replace that 36% export earnings in the next few years.

I bet China wishes it had better access to Venezuela, without needing to go around South America or through the US-dominated Panama Canal:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/nicaraguas-ortega-wang-jing-sign-canal-agreement

NICARAGUA'S ORTEGA, WANG JING SIGN CANAL AGREEMENT
Jun. 15 12:05 AM EDT
MANAGUA, Nicaragua (AP) — President Daniel Ortega and Chinese businessman Wang Jing have signed an agreement giving his company the right to build a shipping channel across Nicaragua that would compete with the Panama Canal.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/06/economist-explains-3

In terms of funding, Kevin Gallagher of Boston University says China has provided more loans to Latin America since 2005 than the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank combined.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

135. Yes I read them,

and I'm quite familiar with Venezuela's oil dependency. Ecuador, where Snowden is going, would still be the better choice even if Venezuela wasn't selling a drop to the US, because they're still entirely dependent on oil for their existence, and all of it has to move through the Caribbean because that's where Venezuela is. That makes applying pressure on them extremely easy. It's a dependent economy, and unfortunately for them, geographically vulnerable on top of that. Venezuela's politicians can't do anything about the latter (and you're dreaming if you think that canal would make any difference; do you really think the Chinese navy is going to take on the USN on its own turf? Seriously? Keeping in mind their first aircraft carrier is operational but hasn't really been used yet?) but they can about the former. But they do precisely nothing about it anyway.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

155. Ecuador and Venezuela are both small, weak countries

15.5 million people in Ecuador
28.5 million people in Venezuela

If the CIA wants to assassinate Snowden, they could do it in either country.

As to "applying pressure" on their trade lifelines - I doubt it would be much harder to blockade Ecuador in the Pacific with ships out of San Diego than it would be to blockade Venezuela in the Atlantic - but both flauntings of International Law would have a high price in the waning days of the American Empire. Maybe not in the next 10 years, but certainly in the new order which will come about this century.

As to "aircraft carriers", I think China is not going to follow the U.S. path of WWII and post-WWII military technology.
They are already heavily invested in leapfrog "carrier killer" missiles, like the Dongfeng-21D:

http://blogs.defensenews.com/intercepts/2013/01/china-tests-carrier-killer-df-21d-missile-sinks-us-aircraft-carrier/
http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/06/12/why-china-may-limit-carrier-killers-range/

If the US tried to blockade or sink Chinese merchant vessels in the equatorial Pacific or Atlantic, there could be severe consequences to American fleets and military bases in Asia - South Korea, Japan, Guam and Taiwan are all within reach of the Dongfeng carrier-killer. Non-nuclear death from above - single-shot kill.
Military analysts say China probably won't outright challenge the USA before 2020, while it is getting ready to be a Superpower... yet sometimes emotions run high.

[MADem]

149. They'd better build a few more refineries, then.

That stuff isn't ready to roll when it comes out of the ground. It's heavy, and sour, and requires a lot of work to refine it.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

154. That's why they call it "crude"

Plenty of countries buy unrefined crude - that's what the "Ultra Large Crude Carriers" carry.

[MADem]

156. There's crude, and there's crude....but you surely must know this.

Light, sweet crude is a different animal than sour, heavy crude.

Sour and heavy is much harder to refine. It's not worth as much as the good stuff, because there is expense involved in getting it ready for market.

MOST refineries can't handle it, that's why it's problematic when a refinery that does work with the stuff goes offline.

The lightest, sweetest stuff is almost ready to go straight out of the ground.

[nineteen50]

80. Is this about Obama and his

legacy or American's' guaranteed God given rights.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

82. I'm sure Venezuela will cooperate with the US Government

unless they are still upset over their backing of the 2002 coup d'etat that kidnapped Chavez,
installed businessman Pedro Carmona, and dissolved the National Assembly and the Supreme Court.

And the US Ambassador in Caracas who immediately congratulated "President" Carmona and his new far rigthtwing Government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1927322.stm
Washington blamed Mr Chavez for creating the conditions that led to his removal.

[I love weed]

84. The current Venezuelan regime looks like it's on pretty shaky ground.

The new guy there is no Chavez, whose clownish charisma masked the effects of his disastrous economic policies. Don't think he can hold onto power too much longer.

I can easily see Capriles or someone else coming into power and not wanting a political football like Snowden around. Maybe Venezuela isn't the safest place for Snowden. (Hell, even if he isn't extradited, he'll probably be randomly murdered in that crime-infested country.)

[Lugal Zaggesi]

89. Maduro was just elected to a six year term

Unless you think the CIA is going to assassinate President Maduro,
or organize another coup,
there is no problem with "holding onto power".

There is a legal recourse to a popular recall referendum anytime in the last three years of the six year Presidential term. Do you think Capriles can wait till 2016 to try to do things legally this time ?

It's more likely Snowden would be assassinated in Venezuela before Capriles ever got a chance to topple Maduro. Plenty of shady American film-makers down in Venezuela who happen to be Krav Maga experts ...

U.S. documentary-maker Tim Tracy can kill you with a credit card, or a magazine

[mbperrin]

101. No idea why so many are angry with Mr. Snowden.

First rule of secrets:

Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

Benjamin Franklin


So when THOUSANDS know something, it's inevitable that it will come out.

It's like being mad at someone for falling down and showing that gravity exists.

Second rule:

Yeah, there are no more rules of secrets. They will come out.

Sunshine is a good thing.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

103. Hmm, he has recourse to a very interesting loophole

Reading this http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rkvqor
Take a look at the following:

Seeking political asylum is a process that can take long time, and there are no guarantees granted against extradition while the process is ongoing. However since Snowden faces possible death sentence his case is stronger, for it is illegal to extradite a person who faces death sentence from Iceland.

As far as I know this is also the case for most of Europe, correct? Just wondering if this could be used by him as a way to prevent extradition. Note that for Assange this would not have been available as Sweden doesn't have the death penalty.

[dipsydoodle]

104. Certainly the case for the whole of the EU.

No chance whatsoever of anyone being deported anywhere if there was the risk of death penalty.

[treestar]

105. There is no death penalty for the charges - which are

18 USC 641 Theft of property and records

18 USC 793 Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

18 USC 798 Disclosure of classified information


Ten years maximum on each of them.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

119. Thanks. News is saying espionage, and I looked that up & saw the death penalty applies.

But it looks like that was inaccurate, as far as the specific charges.

[muriel_volestrangler]

112. When that is the case, the US government signs an agreement not to seek the death penalty

This is how wanted murderers are extradited, for instance.

[muriel_volestrangler]

113. Ecuador now looks quite a likely destination:

26m ago

Here's more from Miriam Elder in Moscow:

I just talked to Ecuador's ambassador, Patricio Chavez, inside Sheremtyevo airport, outside the 'capsule hotel' where Snowden is said to take a room.

He has not spoken to Snowden yet, he does not know where he is, and he would not confirm these reports that Ecuadorian doctors have examined him.

Asked why he was here, Chavez said: "We have an interest in knowing what is happening to him," but would not go further.

29m ago

But it seems the Ecuadoreans know as little as us.

31m ago

The BBC's Moscow correspondent, Daniel Sandford, is now leaning towards Ecuador as the more likely destination for Snowden.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-live#block-51c71c01e4b0b4ee0a3dd7eb

[Benton D Struckcheon]

121. Ecuador is far superior to Venezuela as a destination.

Better all around than Venezuela or Cuba. Ecuador can far more easily withstand US pressure. Better economy, and unlike Venezuela, they're already sending the majority of their crude to China. None is going directly to the US.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

127. Ecuador acknowledges receiving a request for asylum from Snowden

See below:

[toby jo]

129. Remember the good ole days when a spy was rarely seen or heard from

and now the world sits back chatting about his next stop.

Shifts.

Can't wait for the day when these boys stop the defensive posturing and get a collective grip on our humanity. Nice to see all these 'secret' funds going to feed, clothe, and green up our world.

[jmowreader]

130. Snowden's final destination may be the Fort Meade stockade

One thing Snowden missed in all his research is the Russians have a long track record of extracting all your classified information then calling the US Embassy to have you picked up. North Korea will keep you as some sort of trophy; the Russians don't do that.

[SunSeeker]

134. China got what they needed from Snowden and wanted him gone.

China had to know about US hacking, since they hack the shit out of us. What they needed was to embarrass the US and take the heat off of their own hacking, which Showden helped them do. The extradition process put China in a box, if they extradited, they would chill further leakers like Snowden from spilling beans for their benefit; but by not extraditing, they risked a major fight with the US. So, they seized on a technicality (lack of an interpol warrant) and made him someone else's problem:

"...It looks like there was a technicality," he continued. "There was a lack of an Interpol warrant in addition to the charges rendered by the United States government, and that might have created a seam, a very small seam in which the Hong Kong authorities allowed themselves to let Edward Snowden out of there. It is also the belief within the administration that Hong Kong was getting weary of the saga and would prefer Edward Snowden to get out. He's gotten out, and he's now somebody else's problem - mainly the United States'."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57590617/sen-feinstein-on-edward-snowden-the-chase-is-on/

[Beacool]

151. Such courage..........

Screw him.

[YOHABLO]

152. Good for Him .. he didn't have much choice now did he?

Beats the hell out of being shackled in solitary for the rest of his life. He'll never get justice in the U.S. If he were a Chinese dissident seeking asylum in the U.S. he be characterized as a hero. I suppose the NSA will be getting this all down that I support his actions. Not all of us would have the courage. Especially someone so young and with a life in front of him.