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Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:09 AM

Ecuador renounces trade benefits from US Congress

Source: AP

QUITO, Ecuador (AP) — Ecuador's communications minister says the country is renouncing trade preferences that are up for U.S. congressional renewal.

It comes as Ecuador considers the asylum request of NSA leaker Edward Snowden, which has prompted critics in the U.S. to suggest retaliation against the South American country.

Minister Fernando Alvarado told a news conference Thursday the benefits were originally granted for help in the fight against drugs but have become "an instrument of blackmail." He said "Ecuador unilaterally and irrevocably renounces said preferences."

The program has given Ecuador millions of dollars in benefits, but it faced an uphill fight for renewal. Alvarado did not mention another effort to win trade benefits under a presidential order.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ecuador-renounces-trade-benefits-us-congress

90 replies, 14641 views

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Reply Ecuador renounces trade benefits from US Congress (Original post)
Bosonic Jun 2013 OP
malthaussen Jun 2013 #1
Enrique Jun 2013 #2
msanthrope Jun 2013 #5
SoapBox Jun 2013 #16
magical thyme Jun 2013 #21
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #24
byeya Jun 2013 #25
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #32
magical thyme Jun 2013 #26
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #22
Divernan Jun 2013 #33
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #39
Divernan Jun 2013 #52
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #56
railsback Jun 2013 #70
Catherina Jun 2013 #3
Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #29
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #4
msanthrope Jun 2013 #6
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #9
Catherina Jun 2013 #7
Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #27
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #35
backscatter712 Jun 2013 #8
dipsydoodle Jun 2013 #10
Catherina Jun 2013 #11
Beacool Jun 2013 #17
Zorro Jun 2013 #12
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #18
byeya Jun 2013 #28
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #30
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #80
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #81
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #83
dotymed Jun 2013 #13
SoapBox Jun 2013 #14
Divernan Jun 2013 #23
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #31
Divernan Jun 2013 #36
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #40
Divernan Jun 2013 #50
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #53
Post removed Jun 2013 #55
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #57
Divernan Jun 2013 #58
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #60
Divernan Jun 2013 #64
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #66
flamingdem Jun 2013 #75
Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #15
Divernan Jun 2013 #19
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #20
Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #34
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #37
Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #44
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #45
Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #46
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #47
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #62
Divernan Jun 2013 #43
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #38
Divernan Jun 2013 #41
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #72
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #42
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #48
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #49
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #74
geek tragedy Jun 2013 #82
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #87
Divernan Jun 2013 #51
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #54
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #73
Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #59
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #61
Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #65
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #67
Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #69
Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #86
Bacchus4.0 Jun 2013 #63
Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #85
cstanleytech Jun 2013 #68
railsback Jun 2013 #71
flamingdem Jun 2013 #76
railsback Jun 2013 #77
flamingdem Jun 2013 #78
railsback Jun 2013 #79
Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #84
Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #88
alcibiades_mystery Jun 2013 #89
Catherina Jun 2013 #90

Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:14 AM

1. Now, this *will* make heads explode.

Turning down money? That just does not compute in the brains of our pols.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:15 AM

2. it's unamerican

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:51 AM

5. It wasn't going to be renewed anyway. It's a gesture. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:19 AM

16. Oh I so have a "gesture" for Ecuador. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:49 AM

21. Is that why Sandy Levin threatened to block it if Ecuador gave Snowden asylum?

 

or was that an empty gesture on her part, too?

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:55 AM

24. it wasn't going to be renewed so Ecuador did a pre-emptive pull out

Ecuador was the last country in the Andean Pact. Chile, Peru, and COlombia all have FTAs with the US that superceded the Andean Pact. BOlivia was suspended in 2008. Ecuador created a website Keeptradegoing to lobby for reauthorization of the pact but it was unlikely to pass as they are the only country remaining and the US isn't looking into entering into an agreement with Ecuador.

What will be interesting is if Ecuador will try to get into the Pacific Alliance Pact.

Ecuador always has Alba to fall back on with Cuba, Venezuela, Haiti, Bolivia and the enormous amount of trade those countries do I guess.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:01 AM

25. President Correa has already refused US military bases in Ecuador unless Ecuador can have bases

 

in Miami.
This is more than a gesture because it's an extension of Ecuadoran foreign policy.

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Response to byeya (Reply #25)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:14 AM

32. the lease for the military base in Manta expired in 2009

The pull out of the trade agreement will mean that tariffs will be placed on Ecuadorian products in the US making their products more expensive. the US accounts for about half of Ecuadorian trade. Importers will get their products elsewhere as a result.

I guess Ecuador really showed us.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:02 AM

26. and Sen. Sandy Levin's threat to block it pre-empted Ecuadors pre-emptive pullout.

 

The Senator threatened to block any trade deal first, so Ecuador's pullout was itself pre-empted.

Bottom line is the Senator's threat to block the deal was empty posturing.

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:50 AM

22. nearly half of Ecuador's trade depends on the US

Ecuador doesn't even need money thats how awesome they are.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:14 AM

33. Actually, Ecuador does NOT have to depend on US.

Comments from EU blogs:
"Ecuador has a trade surplus and Asian and African interests are just waiting for an opportunity to get a piece of the South American pie. The US won't do squat as it needs the oil in case something happens to the tar sands not to mention the economic miracle that is South America while US goes down the toilet."

"Threatening trade sanctions will be like shooting own foot as China will gladly buy that oil,flowers and tuna to gain leverage in Ecuador over US."

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Response to Divernan (Reply #33)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:23 AM

39. then why was Ecuador promoting continuation of the agreement?

Africa and Bolivia aren't going to make up the loss in trade.

Here is the Ecuadorian Embassy created website to lobby for continuation of the agreement

http://keeptradegoing.com/

You think African countries are going to start buying flowers from Ecuador now???

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #39)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:07 PM

52. I think Ecuadoreans are better off with better paying jobs than selling flowers.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #52)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:19 PM

56. its big business We'll wait and see all those high paying jobs

that replace the 100,000 that are employed in the cut flower industry. Good luck Ecuador.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #56)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:39 PM

70. They're going to need it

 

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:49 AM

3. Ecuador: Media is Distorting Our Words on Snowden. We're Pulling Out of US Trade Agreement

Forgive me for cut and pasting what I just posted in GD:

Patiño accuses the media of distorting his words on Snowden's asylum

Published: June 27, 2013 | 9:34 GMT

The Foreign Minister of Ecuador, Ricardo Patiño, said some media distorted his statements on the time necessary to consider the Latin American country not to grant political asylum to the CIA excolaborador Edward Snowden.

Journalists referring to Patino reported that Ecuador would take more than two months to review Snowden's application. "In Kuala Lumpur I stated that the decision of asylum could be resolved in a day, in a week or, as happened with Assange, could take two months. The media removed the first part of the statement and left only the second. They're trying to cause confusion, as we already know," Patiño wrote in his Twitter account.

http://actualidad.rt.com/ultima_hora/view/98552-patino-medios-distorsionar-asilo-snowden


And another thing

RT ‏@RT_com 41m

Ecuador can't currently grant asylum to #Snowden, obstacle that he's not on its soil - officials http://on.rt.com/agi12q

12:44 GMT: Ecuador says it has not processed Snowden’s asylum request because he has not reached any of its diplomatic premises.


Asa K Cusack ‏@AsaKCusack 26m

Fascinating stuff from #Ecuador in response to #US #Snowden #trade threats: they've dropped #ATPDEA rather than having US revoke it. Astute.



El Universo ‏@eluniversocom 1h

Ecuador's Secretary of Communication announced that Ecuador renounces the US preferential trade agreement (Andean Trade Promotion and Drug Eradication Act) and offers economic aid to the US

Secretario de Comunicación anuncia que #Ecuador renuncia a preferencias arancelarias #ATPDEA y ofrece una ayuda económica a EE.UU.


GAWD the US government is fucking tone deaf. Latin America made it clear it's SICK of the US drug war, and the US held that agreement over its head? After all the ALBA countries had already publicly pledged to kick out the USAID? And that they were SICK of being called (John Kerry that was you recently) and treated as America's backyard? Who's running this show?


Ecuador renounces renewed trade benefits from US Congress
Published June 27, 2013
Associated Press

...

Alvarez said his country won't bow "to mercantile interests, as important as they may be."

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/06/27/ecuador-renounces-renewed-trade-benefits-from-us-congress/




Through his Twitter account the president (Correa) stressed that the Washington Post had "accused" Ecuador of having double standards.

They have managed to focus on Snowden (an ex-intelligence agent who fled the United States) and the "evil" countries that "support" him, making us forget the terrible actions he denounced against the U.S. people and the whole world, he expressed on Twitter.

"The world order is not only unjust, it is immoral," stressed the president.

...

The Ecuadorian government puts principles above its interests, said Foreign Affairs Minister Ricardo Patiño in a press conference from Vietnam where he was on an official visit.

http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1552231&Itemid=1

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Response to Catherina (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:07 AM

29. He looks a lot like that other guy.

You know, the one who said "Winning!" and talked about having "tiger blood".

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:49 AM

4. It was unlikely to be renewed anyways, but a pretty accurate

 

indicator of where the relationship between the two countries lies.

Hopefully Ecuador will continue to remain as defiant towards the big oil companies who want to pillage its rain forests.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:53 AM

6. Given Correa's brother's interest, and according to the indigenous population,

 

he isn't holding out.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:58 AM

9. To me, 8 million acres of rainforest with hundreds of thousands of endangered

 

animals and birds dying as a result is a bigger deal than Snowden.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:55 AM

7. The Top Dems who came up with this stupidity must be feeling like real doofuses now n/t

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Response to Catherina (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:02 AM

27. I doubt it.

I think they thought it would help cut expenses from the federal budget.

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Response to Catherina (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:18 AM

35. yes, because boosting Ecuador's economy was #1 on the foreign policy agenda

now Ecuadorian products will have tariffs in the US making them uncompetitive with other countries in the region. Ecuador really showed us.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:56 AM

8. HAH! So much for the US holding it over Equador's head about Snowden! n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:01 AM

10. This has made the veiled threats by the US even lamer.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:05 AM

11. Ecuador also offered a multimillion donation for human rights training in the United States

In a deliberately cheeky touch from the leftist government of President Rafael Correa, Ecuador also offered a multimillion donation for human rights training in the United States.

...

"What's more, Ecuador offers the United States economic aid of $23 million annually, similar to what we received with the trade benefits, with the intention of providing education about human rights," Alvarado added.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/27/us-usa-security-ecuador-idUSBRE95Q0L820130627

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Response to Catherina (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:31 AM

17. Maybe Correa should practice what he preaches.

This Chavez wannabe has no compunction in repressing those who oppose him.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:12 AM

12. It seems that Correa never misses an opportunity to insult the US

It will be interesting to see if Ecuador's economy suffers from such actions and decisions.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:35 AM

18. No, this is part of Ecuador's move to being a de facto province of China.

 

China pretty much owns Ecuador, literally, at this point.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:04 AM

28. This seems to me to be s singularly ill-informed statement.

 

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Response to byeya (Reply #28)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:10 AM

30. Ecuador owes China $9 billion, and China now owns 20% of Ecuador's land mass--pristine

 

rainforest, where it will have free reign to wipe out the indigenous peoples and their culture as well as all the wildlife there in order to extract oil.

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/05/how-ecuador-sold-itself-to-china/

Ecuador's economic development has been due to lending from China.

At least China let them keep the Galapagos for now.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #30)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:57 PM

80. Owns 20% of Ecuador's land mass ?

 

You seem confused as to what an "oil concession" is:

The oil company receives the exclusive right to explore and drill in the specified geographical area and obtains some contractual ownership right to the oil in place. Thus, the host country grants the oil company the rights to all oil production in exchange for payment of bonuses, rentals, royalties, and taxes. Modern concessions differ greatly from traditional concessions in that they cover a smaller area, last for a shorter period, and require minimum work obligations by the oil company.

Of course, even though the oil company doesn't own the land, using it carelessly to produce oil can ruin the forest and water - as Texaco proved by devastating the northern Ecuadorian Amazon from 1964 to 1992

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Response to Lugal Zaggesi (Reply #80)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:00 PM

81. I understand precisely what it means when one grants oil companies

 

such concessions.

They'll leave behind a nice polluted, dying mess.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #81)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:10 PM

83. And yet

 

by claiming "China now owns 20% of Ecuador's land mass" you suggest that you do not understand precisely what it means when one grants oil companies such concessions.

But we both seem to agree that Ecuador should prevent any oil company that wins bids from leaving behind a nice polluted, dying mess - like Texaco did (now owned by Chevron):

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/10/world/americas/chevron-ecuador-lawsuit

Supreme Court won't consider blocking $18B judgment against Chevron
updated 10:43 AM EDT, Wed October 24, 2012

(CNN) -- The U.S. Supreme Court has denied an appeal by Chevron to block an $18 billion judgment against it in an Ecuadorian court.

The high court gave no explanation behind its decision not to consider the appeal from the oil giant.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:13 AM

13. WTG Correa! n/t

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:15 AM

14. Fuck 'um...

We're always dish'n out trillions to every body, so cut them off. Period.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #14)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:50 AM

23. Sweetie, you can't "fire" (or fuck) them, because they already quit!

How difficult is it to comprehend that Ecuador's leader/govt. is putting principle over profits?

COMBATIVE CORREA

Never shy of taking on the West, the pugnacious Correa last year granted asylum to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to help him avoid extradition from Great Britain to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning over sexual assault accusations.

The 50-year-old U.S.-trained economist won a landslide re-election in February on generous state spending to improve infrastructure and health services, and his Alianza Pais party holds a majority in the legislature.

Ecuadorean officials said Washington was unfairly using the Andean Trade Promotion and Drug Eradication Act, which provides customs benefits in exchange for efforts to fight the drug trade, as a political weapon.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/27/us-usa-security-ecuador-idUSBRE95Q0L820130627

What the rest of the world sees here is the US/Obama administration burnishing its image as blackmailing bullies.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:11 AM

31. Ask the indigenous peoples in the rain forest that Ecuador just sold to China

 

for oil drilling.

Oh wait, they don't count . . .

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #31)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:18 AM

36. Wow! What powerful links you provide! NOT.

Don't be such a hypocrite! You got problems with Obama's support for Big Oil? For encouraging drilling in the Arctic? For fracking in the US parks & public lands? Got any links about how the US pressured Ecuador in behalf of the indigenous peoples in the rain forest? Of course not.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #36)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:24 AM

40. link

 

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:43 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/26/ecuador-chinese-oil-bids-amazon


Critics say national debt may be a large part of the Ecuadorean government's calculations. Ecuador owed China more than £4.6bn ($7bn) as of last summer, more than a tenth of its GDP. China began loaning billions of dollars to Ecuador in 2009 in exchange for oil shipments. More recently China helped fund two of its biggest hydroelectric infrastructure projects. Ecuador may soon build a $12.5bn oil refinery with Chinese financing.

"My understanding is that this is more of a debt issue – it's because the Ecuadoreans are so dependent on the Chinese to finance their development that they're willing to compromise in other areas such as social and environmental regulations," said Adam Zuckerman, environmental and human rights campaigner at Amazon Watch. "The message that they're trying to send to international investors is not in line with reality."

Last July the inter-American court on human rights ruled to prohibit oil developments in the Sarayaku, a tropical rainforest territory in southern Ecuador that is accessible only by plane and canoe, in order to preserve its rich cultural heritage and biodiversity. The court also mandated that governments obtain "free, prior and informed consent" from native groups before approving oil activities on their indigenous land.




IOKIYAL.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:00 PM

50. Your post does not prove what you claim it does.

The final outcome depends upon how the govt. spends the income - as in relocating, educating, providing medical care for impoverished indigenous peoples.

"In an interview, Ecuador's secretary of hydrocarbons, Andrés Donoso Fabara, accused indigenous leaders of misrepresenting their communities to achieve political goals. "These guys with a political agenda, they are not thinking about development or about fighting against poverty," he said.

Fabara said the government had decided not to open certain blocks of land to bidding because it lacked support from local communities. "We are entitled by law, if we wanted, to go in by force and do some activities even if they are against them," he said. "But that's not our policy."


Now let us consider how the US Big Oil companies raped Ecuador's environment and the indigenous populations for decades! Texaco was the primary international oil company exporting oil from the coast of Ecuador. This company managed the oil operation from 1971 to 1992, when it was nationalized by Ecuador.

Texaco's contract for oil production in Ecuador expired in 1992. PetroEcuador then took over 100% of the oil production management. 1.5 billion barrels of crude oil was reported to have been extracted while under the management of Texaco. There were also reports of 19 billion gallons of waste that had been dumped into the natural environment with the absence of any monitoring or overseeing to prevent damages to the surrounding areas. In addition there was a report of 16.8 million gallons of crude that was dispersed into the environment in relation to spillage out of the Trans-Ecuadorian pipeline.


In the early 1990s a lawsuit led by Ecuadorian government officials of 1.5 billion dollars was presented against the Texaco company with claims that there was an immense pollution epidemic that led to the demise of many natural environments as well as an increase in human illnesses.

A cancer study was conducted in 1994 by the Centre for Economic and Social Rights which found a rise in health concerns in the Ecuadorian region. In 2002, it was found that there was a notably higher incidence of cancer in women and men in the countries where there was oil production present for over 20 years. Women also reported increased rates in a copious amount of psychical aliments such as skin mycosis, sore throat, headaches and gastritis. The primary argument against these findings were that they were weak and biased. Texaco decided on jurisdiction in Ecuador.

The case put against Texaco remained in the works for some time. In 2001, Texaco was taken over by Chevron, another oil company, which assumed the liabilities left by the previous production. On February, 2011 Chevron was found guilty after inheriting the case left by Texaco and was said to be required to pay 9 billion dollars in damages. This is known to be one the largest environmental lawsuits award recorded


http://www.counterspill.org/article/ecuador-vs-chevron-texaco-brief-history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Ecuador

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Response to Divernan (Reply #50)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:08 PM

53. "relocating" indigenous peoples amounts to cultural genocide.

 

Of course the US oil companies behaved in an inhuman, evil manner towards the people and environment of Ecuador.

That's what oil companies do. It's who they are.

Regardless of whether they're US, British, Canadian. Or Chinese.

If you think the same Chinese oil companies that financed genocide in Darfur are going to treat the environment and indigenous peoples of Ecuador with respect . . .

Correa's position is not that Ecuador is not for sale, it's that Ecuador has already been purchased.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #53)


Response to Post removed (Reply #55)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:19 PM

57. I think Custer said the same thing about Native Americans. nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #57)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:22 PM

58. Didn't even look at pictures, did you?

Just zapping out those one-liners.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #58)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:26 PM

60. I am well aware of how people live in the rain forest.

 

Yet somehow I avoid the temptation to avoid mocking their way of life.

I don't mock their clothes, or their hunting methods, or their habitations.

And your attitude towards their entire culture is exactly the same as that which the US government had towards Native Americans. Force them to abandon their entire way of life. Force them to live off of government subsidies and power plants rather than nature.

The only part you missed was converting them to Christianity.



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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #60)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:37 PM

64. A realistic appraisal is not mocking.

Answer me. Do you want to live in a rain forest as these people do? Would you choose to raise children there? To grow old there? My great grandfather was Cherokee. I know how he lived. No way on earth I would choose to return to those primitive conditions. My son is an environmentalist who spent two years living in an Indonesian rain forest with native peoples who had no posessions but a cooknig pot and an extra shirt. He liked them. He respected them. He NEVER mocked them. Have you ever lived in a rain forest? I repeat, you are simply romanticizing the situation, not unlike tea partiers who want a simpler life.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #64)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:42 PM

66. Choice. What a fascinating concept.

 

How many of the indigenous people would choose to spend all day in a windowless cubicle staring at a computer screen, walking on land covered in concrete, and smelling not trees and flowers but exhaust pipes?

I respect their choice, their autonomy, their decision to maintain their way of life.

Btw, Hobbes never ventured more than 100 miles from his birthplace and never met a single indigenous person. Everything he said about indigenous peoples turned out to be incorrect.

The idea that hunter-gatherer societies are inherently full of violence and barbarism has been a thoroughly discredited notion for a few centuries now.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:15 PM

75. Thanks, this is critical information

sigh.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:17 AM

15. Ho-ley SHIT!



PB

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:45 AM

19. "US privacy violations/torture denigrating to humanity."

(Reuters) - Ecuador's leftist government thumbed its nose at Washington on Thursday by renouncing U.S. trade benefits and offering to pay for human rights training in America in response to pressure over asylum for former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden.

The angry response threatens a showdown between the two nations over Snowden, and may burnish President Rafael Correa's credentials to be the continent's principal challenger of U.S. power after the death of Venezuelan socialist leader Hugo Chavez.
"Ecuador will not accept pressures or threats from anyone, and it does not traffic in its values or allow them to be subjugated to mercantile interests," government spokesman Fernando Alvarado said at a news conference.

In a cheeky jab at the U.S. spying program that Snowden unveiled through leaks to the media, the South American nation offered $23 million per year to finance human rights training. The funding would be destined to help "avoid violations of privacy, torture and other actions that are denigrating to humanity," Alvarado said. He said the amount was the equivalent of what Ecuador gained each year from the trade benefits.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/27/us-usa-security-ecuador-idUSBRE95Q0L820130627

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:47 AM

20. Denying themselves hundreds of millions in trade benefits will really show the US who is boss

like the US gives a shit.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #20)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:15 AM

34. ^ Says a citizen of the Empire, perturbed the coin of the realm nolonger buys loyalty as it once did

Your toga, citizen. Check the label. Made in China.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:19 AM

37. things won't be saying made in Ecuador anymore

You do realize that the lack of a trade agreement hurts Ecuador and not the US? Do you?

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #37)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:28 AM

44. Ah yes, the U.S. as abusive spouse- but one with a steady income to share if the abuse is allowed.

I believe that's the Ike Turner school of foreign policy.



PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #44)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:32 AM

45. in this case its Ecuador abusing itself

its Ecuador's loss, do you comprehend that? Anyway, since it wasn't going to be renewed anyway, Snowden or not, its just a political gesture.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #45)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:37 AM

46. Hardly. You care not a lick about Ecuador's well-being, only their subservience.

Finding the stick ineffective, you switch to the carrot. And, like an over the hill three-card-monty dealer, completely unaware the audience has seen you make the switch.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #46)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:45 AM

47. it only hurts Ecuador, it doesn't do anything to the US

Ecuadorian producers will suffer as a result. That was inevitable anyway. So I guess Ecuador decided to slap themselves before the US did.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #44)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:28 PM

62. Sure, but many a battered spouse dumps their batterer

 

and then turns around and marries another batterer.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:26 AM

43. How true! Can hardly buy ANYTHING in US that doesn't say "Made in China".

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #20)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:20 AM

38. Yeah, the US doesn't care about it's "Back Yard" going to Chinese influence

 

they still have Canada to boss around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Backyard
"America's Backyard" is about the United States' traditional area of dominance and major sphere of influence, which was Central and South America for a long time.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=333733&CategoryId=10718
China Overtakes U.S. as Brazil’s Top Trade Partner

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2012-09/29/content_15793534.htm
China, Ecuador seek closer trade, economic ties
Updated: 2012-09-29 17:34


[center]

US influence is shrinking
[/center]

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Response to Lugal Zaggesi (Reply #38)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:25 AM

41. Welcome to DU! I appreciate your excellent links!

As opposed to the big mouths who wave their red, white & blue pompoms with no back-up for their unfounded claims!

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Response to Divernan (Reply #41)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:15 PM

72. Thanks for the welcome

 

It's appreciated.

[center] [/center]

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Response to Lugal Zaggesi (Reply #38)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:25 AM

42. then Ecuador should start promoting their bananas and flowers in China

US importers will get those products from other countries now where there are trade agreements such as Colombia and Peru.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #42)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:56 AM

48. The US saw Ecuador as a source of cheap flowers

 

The Chinese take a longer view - they are loaning and investing $billions in Ecuador to develop infrastructure, tourism, technology, services and energy projects. Building hydropower stations has been a boost to Ecuador's economy, now China is moving into more mining projects and much closer cooperation with Ecuador oil companies.

http://www.thedialogue.org/page.cfm?pageID=32&pubID=3098
http://international.iteem.ec-lille.fr/south-america/chamber-of-commerce-of-china-ecuador-and-china-a-very-close-relation/

The US is systematically being replaced by Ecuador, Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Bolivia, Argentina...
What the US corporate media call the "Pink Tide", Latin America calls a breaking away from long term USA domination.

Mexico, Panama, Chile and Colombia are about the only rightwing countries left in Latin America - but the USA has had to rig Mexico's election, invade Panama, and pour money and weapons into Colombia to keep it that way.

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Response to Lugal Zaggesi (Reply #48)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:00 PM

49. The Chinese don't give a fig about Ecuador's development.

 

They're interested in the same things the USA is--profit, resources (i.e. oil), and influence.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #49)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:42 PM

74. Are they interested in a global empire of military bases

 

like the USA is ?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/31/prophet-for-a-dying-empire-chalmers-johnson/

The Sorrows of Empire was written during the American preparations for and launching of the invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. I began to study our continuous military buildup since World War II and the 737 military bases we currently maintain in other people’s countries.

This empire of bases is the concrete manifestation of our global hegemony, and many of the blowback-inducing wars we have conducted had as their true purpose the sustaining and expanding of this network. We do not think of these overseas deployments as a form of empire; in fact, most Americans do not give them any thought at all until something truly shocking, such as the treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, brings them to our attention.

But the people living next door to these bases and dealing with the swaggering soldiers who brawl and sometimes rape their women certainly think of them as imperial enclaves, just as the people of ancient Iberia or nineteenth-century India knew that they were victims of foreign colonization.

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Response to Lugal Zaggesi (Reply #74)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:02 PM

82. No, a less obvious sphere of influence, plus access to resources.

 

They outsource the killing.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #82)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:34 PM

87. True, the Chinese culture is very different

 

than the English-speaking-dominated "Western" culture.

Even when China ruled the Seas (early 1400's) they treated lesser powers differently than Europe ever did.
It will be interesting to see how they handle being the new "Superpower" in 10 or 20 years.

http://www.amazon.com/When-China-Ruled-Louise-Levathes/dp/0671701584/

When China Ruled the Seas
This is an entertaining look at the voyages of Zheng Ho, a eunuch in the service of the Ming Emperor of China, in the fifteenth century C.E. China's navy was then the most powerful in the world, and Levathes helps us recognize this with some skillfully drawn comparisons between Zheng Ho's treasure ships (the largest wooden vessels ever built) and the puny Santa Maria. China was unquestionably the most advanced civilization in the world during Zheng Ho's time, and had the voyages been allowed to continue, resulting in permanent Chinese influence on and control of the Indian Ocean, Africa, and possibly America and Europe, our world today would be very different indeed. Levathes does a good job of explaining why Ming China decided to stop the voyages and its international trade, and points out that while Westerners tend to see this as a failure, to the Chinese at the time it seemed a success. This is probably the most valuable insight of the book, the illustration of a very wide gap between the psychological makeup of East and West.

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Response to Lugal Zaggesi (Reply #48)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:05 PM

51. Again, excellent links and reasoning.

Obviously, Ecuador and all of its peoples will be better off with jobs in tourism, technology, infrastrucutre, etc., then in the minimum paying flower "industry".

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Response to Lugal Zaggesi (Reply #48)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:16 PM

54. Costa Rica, Guatemala, and Paraguay have right governments too. The US doesn't need Ecuador

we'll see how Ecuador fares without the US.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #54)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:31 PM

73. Ah yes, I forgot about the rigthwing "Parliamentary Putsch" of Fernando Lugo in Paraguay

 

on June 21 and 22, last year.

Here's the Wikileaks cable that discusses the plan to get rid of the leftist President using trumped-up impeachment - in March 2012:

http://wikileaks.org/cable/2009/03/09ASUNCION189.html
cable 09ASUNCION189, PARAGUAYAN POLS PLOT PARLIAMENTARY PUTSCH


--------
SUMMARY
--------

¶1. (C) SUMMARY: Rumors persist that discredited General and
UNACE party leader Lino Oviedo and ex-president Nicanor
Duarte Frutos are now working together to assume power via
(mostly) legal means should President Lugo stumble in coming
months. Their goal: Capitalize on any Lugo mis-steps to
break the political deadlock in Congress, impeach Lugo and
assure their own political supremacy. While many predicted
political shenanigans in March during the traditional social
protest season that accompanies the opening of Congress,
little has come of it (largely because Lugo has been careful
not to provide the political or legal rope with which to hang
him, thus depriving Oviedo and Duarte the numbers in Congress
for their supposed "democratic coup". But that could change
quickly here.


Gee, MOSTLY legal means of getting the Leftists out of power in Latin America - the Rigthwing must be getting old and tired these days.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:23 PM

59. Sometimes I really love it when another country flips off the US. We need that

 

as a governmental check. Our government demands something. . .the country tells the US government to go fuck itself.

Sometimes, it gives me a warm feeling that the bullying American government can be told to STFU and SIUIA (stuff it up its ass).

Flame away.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #59)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:28 PM

61. Ecuador flipped themselves off, Do you love that?

its not like the US wanted to or was going to approve the trade preferences anyway. Yes, Ecuadorian products will now be more expensive in the US, and they will lose thousands of jobs since their products will not be competitive. That will really show the US.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #61)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:41 PM

65. Standing up to a bully does come with a price sometimes.

 

I'm glad they did. They didn't just roll over and say "Okay, US Government. When he shows up, we'll gift wrap him for you because you demand it."

Chavez did the same thing and the American government hated him. I'm glad countries stand up to our government every once in a while.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #65)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:52 PM

67. standing up to a bully by punching yourself in the face. Got it.

The US wasn't going to renew Ecuador's trade agreement anyway so this was just a pre-emptive move on Ecuador's part. Their embassy in the US was promoting continuation of the trade status and published a website keeptradegoing.com So obviously they wanted the trade to continue.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #67)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:59 PM

69. Good. Tell the Us Government to take thie economic extortion and stuff it

 

That good neighbor policy our government used for years exploited Central and South America for years.

Good for Ecuador. They took the attitude "you can't fire me, I quit" approach anyone would take with a bullying boss.

I believe it is time Latin America worked to break the hegemonic and economic domination the US Government and their corporate sponsors put on them.

Allende tried and the CIA overthrew him for that murdering bastard Pinochet. Ask Victor Jara about that.

Chavez did too and the US Government did everything they could to get him out. Cancer did what the US Government couldn't.

The US Government tried bullying the Hong Kong SAR and that failed. They tried bullying Russia and that failed. They tried extorting Ecuador and that seems to have failed.

Maybe it's time for an invasion to get Snowden. . .wait, President Obama just killed that idea.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #59)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:43 PM

86. It's actually hilarious. Like an obnoxious middle-schooler flipping off the principal,

and being oh-so-proud of himself because he thinks it makes him the coolest kid in class.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:34 PM

63. Ecuadorian business leaders call withdrawal from pact "irresponsible" (Spanish)

http://www.eluniverso.com/noticias/2013/06/27/nota/1083511/comerciantes-ecuatorianos-consideran-irresponsable-renuncia-atpdea

El presidente de la Federación de Cámaras de Comercio de Ecuador, Blasco Peñaherrera, consideró hoy "irresponsable" la decisión del Gobierno de renunciar a las preferencias arancelarias andinas (Atpdea, por su sigla en inglés).

"Es un anuncio irresponsable que única y exclusivamente está inspirado en intereses políticos, ideológicos y no en lo que debe estar basado las decisiones de un mandatario, que es en el bienestar de la gente", dijo Peñaherrera a EFE al tiempo de señalar al hecho como un "acto hostil".

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #63)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:42 PM

85. Maybe, but it's SO worth it if they get Assange and Snowden. (nt)

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:55 PM

68. It will be interesting to see what if any impact this has economically on

Ecuador as well as the Snowden issue.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:39 PM

71. So, where the hell is this big announcement on Snowden Ecuador was supposed to make

 

like over an hour ago?

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Response to railsback (Reply #71)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:16 PM

76. It never happened and this article was circulating saying there are no plans to halt commerce ties

Ecuador has no plans to halt commerce ties over Snowden: Correa

(Reuters) - Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa said on Thursday he had no plans to cut off commercial ties with any country as a result of pressures over potential asylum for former U.S. security contractor Edward Snowden.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/27/us-usa-security-ecuador-trade-idUSBRE95Q1EK20130627

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #76)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:28 PM

77. Yep, saw that not too long ago

 

I know the Ecuador Chamber of Commerce was pretty pissed off at Correa for flaming all over this.. but it was all just for show. Now the pro-Snowden Guardian has to update their story.. and they're certainly taking their time about it.

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Response to railsback (Reply #77)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:31 PM

78. aha, meanwhile I'm reading about how China already owns Ecuador and is going in to the rainforest

to pillage and remove indigenous people.

I hope the US checks themselves and cuts a good deal with Ecuador.

It sounds like all saber rattling, pray that reason prevails here..

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #78)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:38 PM

79. Yeah, China is going in to do some MAJOR damage

 

and throw some minor compensation Ecuador's way. They could probably bleed that country dry in a couple of years. And its not like they have a vast oil reserve, compared to Venezuela, who has over 30 times as much.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:41 PM

84. Oh NOES!!!!! We are losing ECUADOR as a trade partner?

I don't think our economy will EVER recover from such a severe blow!

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #84)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:41 PM

88. And yet, back in the 1950's,

 

it was considered a DISASTER if even one country went "leftist", since the surrounding countries would follow in a domino effect.

[center]
An illustration of the domino theory as it had been predicted in Asia[/center]

Rightwing US ally Colombia is surrounded by leftist countries Ecuador, Brazil and Venezuela - quick, send lawyers, guns and money !
Oh wait - they did already.

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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:51 PM

89. Someone should tell the rose sellers currently running a million dollar ad buy for a trade agreement

 

on the Chicago "L"



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Response to Bosonic (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 12:46 PM

90. Video of President Correa about this

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