French parties call for Snowden political asylum

[Catherina]

Source: France 24

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden should be given political asylum in France, party leaders from across the political spectrum have said in the wake of the latest US spying allegations.

By Josh Vardey (video)
FRANCE 24 (text)

French party leaders from across the political spectrum have called on France to grant US whistleblower Edward Snowden political asylum, amid demands for ongoing free trade talks between the EU and Washington to be put on hold.

Jean-Luc Mélanchon, leader of France’s Left Party (Parti de Gauche) told BFMTV on Sunday that the extent of alleged US spying on European communications was “arrogant” and “breathtaking”.

“The Americans are spying on EU institutions, so they are already fully aware of the mandate for negotiations that the EU has begun with the US for a free trade agreement,” he said. “We should put these negotiations on hold until the Americans have given some clarity.”

He said France should grant Edward Snowden – currently in transit limbo in a Russian airport without valid travel documents and without any country yet saying it would welcome him – immediate political asylum.

“Edward Snowden... has done us a good service,” he said. “It’s thanks to him that we know we have been spied on. It is not acceptable that we allow a situation whereby he wanders uncertainly around the planet. He is a defender of all our freedoms.”

Read more: http://www.france24.com/en/20130701-snowden-nsa-france-asylum-melanchon-greens-le-pen-hollande

[dipsydoodle]

1. “arrogant” and “breathtaking”

Yes.

[silvershadow]

2. Queue the freedom fries meme in 3...2...1... nt

[Kurska]

3. Are the French racist too? n/t

[dipsydoodle]

4. Yes - they've got the Tour de France.

I assume cycle races count.

[Deep13]

12. Yes, but not against African-Americans.

[still_one]

28. The French have quite a history, especially against Jews

[indepat]

5. Who the hell do the French think they are implying the extent of alleged US spying on

European communications was arrogant and breathtaking? Are the French asking to be taught a good lesson? Do the French not realize that big brother makes the rules, is impervious to the protocols and niceties demanded in international relations, and will not tolerate the impertinence of others?

[Catherina]

15. But think of McCain! He's about to have a heart attack soon lol n/t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

6. The French can give him asylum but we can't? We've given asylum to Russians, East Germans,

and other persons who wanted freedom and didn't want to be spied upon by their governments. Yet, somehow, "our" government has to persecute Snowden.

[Comrade Grumpy]

9. He needs protection from us. Ooh, the EU spying thing is biting.

[gholtron]

11. What I found that was interesting was they

started out by saying that Snowden " Should Be" giving asylum instead of he "Will Be" given asylum. Interesting choice of words

.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

13. Ah.

[FirstLight]

7. mais oui!

I am a huge Francophile and this makes me squeal with delight! Those damn European Socalists! bahahaha! how many heads are about to explode over THIS one? like the US can sanction France or make some kind of political embargo on them? bahaha! classic!

I hope he goes there and they tell the US to kindly "piss off" (said in the most cheesy of french accents!)

this is gonna be good....

[zeemike]

16. I would bet he hopes too.

France would be a nice place to be exiled too
Universal health care...one of the best in the world...liberal vacation time and sick leave...not to mention some great food.

I am rooting for France....and I don't care if we lose our French fries.

[yeoman6987]

29. France would be a nice place to be exiled too

The only negative France has is their taxes are incredibly high. I have a friend living in France and he gets about 32 percent of his wages after everything is taken out. Otherwise it is a great place that I visited many times and love it.

[gholtron]

8. Well the proof is in the pudding.

Let's see if they take him in. France, he's all yours.

[Deep13]

10. "Why yes, we will help our friends in America catch this criminal--wait, WHAT?!...

The Americans we eavesdropping on us?! Obama can go fuck himself!!"

hypothetical quote from any European official

[gholtron]

14. Why do you presume

That we're the only country spying on other countries?

[Deep13]

17. From no on I'm not going to bother deying that I said something...

...when there is nothing in my post to suggest I said it.

[gholtron]

19. I didn't say you actually said that other countries

Don't spy on other countries. Your reply suggested that France don't spy on other countries. Maybe it was sarcasm and if it was, then I apologize for the assumption and please disregard my response.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

20. There a big difference between targeted and total

Think about it

[gholtron]

21. The big difference is

They don't have traitors to expose the targeted and total spying.

[JDPriestly]

22. Most countries spy only or at least primarily on their enemies.

We spy on our friends. That tends to ruin friendships. "You don't trust me? Goodbye."

I don't think the French will say goodbye, but they probably are right to object to our government.

[gholtron]

25. That's what your gut feeling is telling you?

Hmmmmm
http://www.darkreading.com/hacked-off/german-intelligence-caught-red-handed-in/227701004?nomobile=1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/french-spy-chief-le-monde_n_1016114.html

[JDPriestly]

27. But . . . .

The opposition Socialists' newly minted presidential candidate, Francois Hollande, called on Squarcini to resign immediately.

"Can you imagine, the head of counterespionage spying on journalists or public servants?" Hollande said in an interview on TF1 channel's nightly newscast. "I'm shocked the interior minister hasn't already called for Mr. Squarcini's resignation."

Speaking on France-2 television, Prime Minister Francois Fillon stressed that being handed initial charges is not tantamount to being convicted on them. He said the principle of presumption of innocence would be upheld, adding that only after the case runs its course will the government make a decision about Squarcini's fate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/french-spy-chief-le-monde_n_1016114.html

June 20, 2013

France’s former domestic spy chief is to face trial for ordering the seizure of the phone records of a journalist investigating a case of alleged illicit political party funding involving France’s richest woman and Nicolas Sarkozy, the former president.

The move is the latest development in a series of legal actions that continue to dog Mr Sarkozy and figures who were close to him during his five-year term, which ended last year in his election defeat by François Hollande.

. . . .

Mr Squarcini argues that his action was legal and in defence of the national interest. But a spokeswoman for the Paris court said the investigating judges had sent him for trial charged with “the collection of personal data by fraudulent, unfair or illicit means” – a charge that carries a possible jail term of up to five years and a fine of €300,000.

Le Monde reported that the judges’ ruling found there was “no overriding public interest imperative” that justified seizure of the phone records.

http://www.terminalx.org/2013/06/former-french-spy-chief-squarcini-indicted-for-snooping-on-journalist.html


The other article on German internet spying is from 2009. I understand that the German people are trying to take action to stop spying by their government.

Americans are naive about government spying. I have asked this of another supporter of this program, and he could not give me a positive answer. Can you think of any country with a communications surveillance program of the scope and size of the NSA's that was not or did not soon become a totalitarian state?

Neither the French nor the Germans would put up with a program as intrusive as our spying on and collecting of the metadata within our country. The NAZI and Communist spying and repression are too recent for that.

[gholtron]

31. That's because he got Busted.

But on your point. I wish that the justice department would arrest Bush for going around the FISA courts for not getting warrants.

[JDPriestly]

32. Yes. And I also wish that they would end the collection and

spying on metadata, especially on people who are politically active (which includes many, many people) and journalists as well as those active in religion and the arts. Pretty much encompasses just about everyone if you want to know.

No spying on, collection or storing the metadata. Get a subpoena in a criminal case and forget the rest.

[gholtron]

34. Metadata is public record

For example if you own a car then your car has a VIN number. The VIN number is assigned by the manufacturer. The VIN number describes the car's attributes such as what kind it is. Engine type and when and where the car was made. The sole reason for the VIN is for tracking purpose. Meta data is an electronic equivalent of a VIN number. It does not reveal the content of the file that is is attached to. It tells when the file was created where the file is sent to. The provider such as Verizon owns the meta data not us. We own the information within the file not the information out side the file. The government needs another warrant to see what's inside. I don't care about Meta data.

[JDPriestly]

35. I do care about metadata.

It paints a portrait of you.

As a matter of fact, I think we should pass a law providing that the metadata is the sole property of those making and receiving a communication and not of the internet or telephone companies. The police could still subpoena the records from the phone or internet companies, but the phone and internet companies could not sell it without our permission. I think the same thing should be true of other similar information like credit card purchases and the information from our grocery cards.

All of things allow advertisers and influence sellers to draw portraits of us and classify us.

If a crime occurs, if there is real suspicion of criminal or terrorist activity, the government should focus on that, use its (our tax money) resources wisely and leave the rest alone.

[gholtron]

40. Oh I see.

Instead of taking preventative measures, we let them blow shit up first then focus on catching them. Good strategy. I feel safer already.

[JDPriestly]

41. That is not the choice.

I'm not going to blow anything up.

Neither are you.

Very few people are likely to blow things up. People who are likely to blow things up can be discovered by narrowing the database from the get-go.

It is a fundamental principle of Anglo-Saxon law that we are not guilty or even suspected of having a certain profile. We are guilty or suspected of committing specific crimes.

We can also be convicted of conspiring to do criminal acts.

That is why I find the Patriot Act to be overbroad and too vague in the first place. It sets aside the fundamental principles of criminal law in common law and in the American tradition.

Crazy law in the first place.

We need to fight terrorism, but this database could be used to perpetrate terrorism. It's just crazy. That much information about America on a database that could conceivably be hacked. You've got to be kidding.

Personally, I don't go near Facebook.

[shawn703]

37. Allies spy on each other too

I don't know why this is surprising to anyone. It wasn't that long ago we caught Israel spying on us, and to hear some people we could never find a stronger ally.

[Deep13]

43. You don't understand.

Of course all the governments spy. We know it. They know it. And they know that we know that they it. Apart from the fact that bugging and tracking millions of calls is far more intrusive than simply tapping a line, the real problem is that plausible deniability has been undermined. Now that the information is public knowledge, Euro states will feel pressured to respond.

[struggle4progress]

18. Remind me: PG holds how many seats in France's parliament?

[dipsydoodle]

23. Not many

However - coffin nails aggregate until there are enough.

[struggle4progress]

24. Not many is what? Zero? It's a tiny splinter group

[JDPriestly]

30. Under Sarkozy, a French intelligence officer spied on a journalist

and government officials.

June 20, 2013

France’s former domestic spy chief is to face trial for ordering the seizure of the phone records of a journalist investigating a case of alleged illicit political party funding involving France’s richest woman and Nicolas Sarkozy, the former president.

The move is the latest development in a series of legal actions that continue to dog Mr Sarkozy and figures who were close to him during his five-year term, which ended last year in his election defeat by François Hollande.

Mr Sarkozy was himself placed under formal investigation earlier this year for allegedly taking advantage of the mental frailty of Liliane Bettencourt, the 90-year-old billionaire heiress to the L’Oréal cosmetics fortune, by soliciting undeclared election funding from her in 2007 before his victorious campaign that year.

http://www.terminalx.org/2013/06/former-french-spy-chief-squarcini-indicted-for-snooping-on-journalist.html

[bvar22]

26. I join with the French Parties in calling for asylum for all Whistle Blowers!

Informed Consent is the cornerstone of Democracy.

Government Secrecy and persecution of Whistle Blowers destroys the ability of our citizens to fulfill their Constitutional Responsibility of providing OVERSIGHT of our elected representatives.

Case Closed.

[pampango]

33. Marine Le Pen of the far right National Front and at the very opposite end of the political spectrum

from Mélanchon’s Left Party also said France had a duty to take Snowden under its wing.

Another instance of strange political bedfellows. Interesting that the Socialists and center-right opposition have not agreed to this so far.

[Nye Bevan]

36. Tough choice for Snowden there... Moscow, Ecuador, Cuba, or Paris?

Hmmmmmmm....

[DeSwiss]

38. I haven't had this much fun with politics.......

...since Richard Nixon resigned!!!

- K&R

[David__77]

39. That would be interesting.

The McCarthyite style anti-Russian nonsense wouldn't work against France. Perhaps the "police left" would revive the Freedom Fries.

[limpyhobbler]

42. I guess these means we'll be going back to Freedom Fries. nt