Crews work to clear Indiana pile-up: 'There's just so much destruction'

[brooklynite]

Source: Chicago Tribune

Cranes and tow trucks were working this morning to untangle a crush of more than 40 semis and cars that collided in near blizzard conditions on Interstate 94 near Michigan City, Ind. Thursday afternoon, killing three people, including a 65-year-old man from Chicago.

As many as 20 people were injured, some airlifted to hospitals. The eastbound lanes of I-94 remained closed this morning and officials could not say when they would be reopened.

"They're getting to them as quick as they can, with cranes, wreckers, extrication," LaPorte County Coroner John Sullivan told reporters. "There's just so much destruction, they have to tear apart those vehicles and semis and move them little by little to see if there is a car underneath them or under a trailer."

Jerry Dalrymple, 65, of the 9000 block of South Bell Avenue in Chicago, was pronounced dead at the scene, apparently from blunt force trauma, the coroner's office said. His 7-year-old black Labrador named Sparky also died.

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-indiana-crash-fatal-20140123,0,5324588.story

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[Scuba]

1. I don't go near the high-speed routes when the weather is bad. I take back roads ....

... where any accidents will be at much slower speeds, ergo, less lethal.

Takes longer, but much safer.

[In_The_Wind]

2. That's the way we travel if we go anywhere at all.

[valerief]

3. Yes, back roads or no roads at all. nt

[lunasun]

14. You cant take your 18w truck on many of those roads

and a lot of trucks have to try to keep moving or lose job

also this came straight down from up north like a stream over the lake and has been hitting different parts of this area all week
so was hard to predict where it was going to hit every day- you could be 25 mile away and get nothing
another part would get 2feet/white out
Extremely weird weather hit all week on this area- not eastward movement
straight south from the north over lake and a lot of semi trucks involved

but if you can stay off the road when something like this starts coming down

[valerief]

32. True, trucks don't have the options autos do. I'm a baby when it comes

to bad weather. Of course, I've had the luxury of working from home, when necessary, and I know that's not always an option for others.

[AtheistCrusader]

4. Less lethal?

They just smashed over 50 vehicles together at high speed, and only 3 people died.

That's insanely good, all things considered.

[Scuba]

6. Yes, less lethal. You don't get 50-car pileups on the back roads. You don't get ....

... someone plowing into you at 70MPH in back road accidents.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. Sadly, you do.

Well, the latter example, anyway. Kid in my town essentially got away with that on a back road, while texting. Killed a pedestrian, and kept on going. Took 5 months to figure out who did it.

15 month sentence.

[Scuba]

39. This is why I stay of the interstate during periods of inclement weather ...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. But you do get head-ons and the roads aren't cleared as fast.

Most of the time, when snow is anticipated, we will see the plow/salt trucks standing at the ready on the ramps waiting to be dispatched.

At least that is how it is around here.

Around here it can take a day to clear the "back roads".

The first time my partner tried to get me to take a back road during a snow storm on the way down state (Illinois) we exited I55 and got on a snow drifted back road I was like " are you fucking crazy?"

I turned around and got back on I55.

Most of the back roads here are undivided two lanes with minimal shoulders and culverts. No thanks. I prefer a divider even in good conditions.

Two cars colliding head on at 35 mph is just as bad if not worse.

[Scuba]

40. This is why I stay of the interstate during periods of inclement weather ...

[caraher]

21. Relative speeds are slower in pileups than head-on collisions

I did a little Googling on the fatality rates per passenger mile. The most dangerous roads are undivided rural highways, where you have high speeds, narrower lanes and shoulders, and lots of potential for head-on collisions. Fully half of each year's fatalities occur on such roads.

I also found a map of fatalities over a long-ish period of time... when I looked at where I am in Indiana, the higher-volume interstates had clearly lower density of markers than the US and state highways nearby, which see less traffic.

I also took a look at the NHTSA database of crashes. After taking a few minutes to figure out how to construct the correct queries, I found the following results for 2012 fatalities by road type:


Trafficway Description Total Fatalities

Blank - 22
Non-Trafficway Area - 216
Two-Way, Not Divided - 19,796
Two-Way, Divided, Unprotected (Painted > 4 Feet ) Median - 5,409
Two-Way, Divided, Positive Median Barrier - 3,843
One-Way Trafficway - 431
Two-Way, Not Divided With a Continuous Left-Turn Lane - 1,563
Entrance/Exit Ramp - 566
Not Reported - 31
Unknown- 67

While there's no adjustment for passenger miles driven, it's clear that by far the most fatalities occur on the "back roads."

[Scuba]

22. Without the passenger miles driven stat once can't make any informed conclusions.

[caraher]

23. But other sources I found put the number at 3-6 times more dangerous per passenger mile

For instance, from a TRIP report:

Rural roads have a traffic fatality rate that is more than three times higher than all other roads. In 2009, non-Interstate rural roads had a traffic fatality rate of 2.31 deaths for every 100 million vehicle miles of travel, compared to a fatality rate on all other roads of 0.76 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles of travel.

[Scuba]

26. I'd still need to see stats that studied accidents during bad weather conditions. Fact is....

... folks still drive 70 MPH on the interstate when it's covered with slippery slush. I do not see that on the back roads.

[caraher]

31. You can generate your own queries for that database

You can select reported atmospheric conditions... for 2012 data I get the following for fatalities:

2-way, not divided

Sleet, Hail, freezing rain or drizzle: 13
Snow: 28
Fog, Smog, Smoke: 39
Blowing Snow: 74

2-way divided, unprotected median

Sleet, Hail, freezing rain or drizzle: 0
Snow: 4
Fog, Smog, Smoke: 19
Blowing Snow: 12

2-way, divided, positive median barrier

Sleet, Hail, freezing rain or drizzle: 1
Snow: 0
Fog, Smog, Smoke: 15
Blowing Snow: 5

[Psephos]

28. I love to read an argument based on facts. Nice job. n/t

[caraher]

27. Also, you can see that the back roads see fewer passenger miles

Department of Transportation figures show that the rural roads see about about half the vehicle-miles traveled compared to urban roads, yet account for most of the fatalities.

[Scuba]

30. Another stat that needs clarification ....

Is the "half the vehicle-miles traveled" per mile of roadway? There are just 47,182 miles of interstate in the US compared with 3,980,817 total road miles.

[Scuba]

41. This is why I stay of the interstate during periods of inclement weather ...

[caraher]

47. Certainly all the big pileups will be on roads like this

It also seems from the data I could find that there's a bit of a risk tradeoff - the rural roads may have fewer accidents per passenger mile, but a disproportionately larger sharer of the fatalities. The mess in the video didn't kill anyone. But I sure wouldn't want to be caught in that any more than you would!

It's a perfectly rational choice to trade a reduced risk of a crash for a higher risk of a fatal crash. That just underscores ambiguities in any statement regarding what is "safe."

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. I hear you ...

We don't get much snow or ice, here in Arizona; but there is a section of road between Tucson and Phoenix that is wind storm prone, at any time of year, with very little warning. When one hits, drivers find themselves suddenly in zero visibility.

I try really hard to avoid that route, as every month or so, I hear about somebody dying ... So, I take the back way into Phoenix. It takes me about a whole 10 minutes longer; but if I'm going through Phoenix to points North or West, it takes adds about 20 minutes.

That is a trade off I gladly take. Plus, it's far more scenic!

[dbackjon]

13. Except as a whole, 2-lane roads are far more dangerous

Yes, Highway 79 is more scenic, but you are more likely to get hit head on than encounter a dust storm on I-10

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. True ...

and the chances of that head-on accident increase dramatically ... right about Catalina!

(I'm kidding)

[Scuba]

42. This is why I stay of the interstate during periods of inclement weather ...

[Thor_MN]

46. Hey, you got any videos of pileups that you could post?

[madokie]

34. I remember reading that most automobile deaths are on secondary roads and most are

within a few miles of home. I don't know if that still holds or not though

[Scuba]

35. There are just 47,182 miles of interstate in the US compared with 3,980,817 total road miles.

And most driving is done close to home.

[madokie]

36. Today most miles driven are on interstates even though there aren't as many miles of them

As a kid growing up here in northeast ok where our primary road was highway 33, known as a killer because of the mix of cars and trucks and an intersection at every mile then some it wasn't unusual for there to be a fatality every few days where now we have the cherokee turn pike that carries most of the traffic and its rare to hear of a fatality. When you do it most time is on the secondary roads where someone runs off the side of the road then over corrects or inattention or someone pulling our in front of someone else. All of those are way less likely to happen on an interstate where most miles driven are driven.

Maybe I just don't know better or maybe its I remember all the friends, family and total strangers I've known of that's died on our two lane hiways around here.
I generally can't wait to get on the four lane hiways. Sometimes I take the two lane roads and when I do its like Eyes wide Open, foot ready to hit the brake type driving

I feel much safer on the interstate hiways.

[Scuba]

38. "Today most miles driven are on interstates even though there aren't as many miles of them"

Can you please provide a citation for that?

[madokie]

44. Sorry no link

Going from memory of what I've read when I say that.
I tried to look it up but I guess I don't know how to ask the question but I'm sure the information is there as I do remember reading it. Newspaper, Popular Science, Popular Mechanics and Discovery is mostly my reading material.

[Scuba]

43. This is why I stay of the interstate during periods of inclement weather ...

[madokie]

45. In inclement weather I stay home

I remember before I got married and had a family I used to couldn't wait for it to snow so I could drive around pulling people out of the ditches. Now I'm prettified driving on snow and ice.

[get the red out]

5. Horrible

I hate reading this sort of thing ever, so heart-breaking, the man and his dog... I travel so much with my sweet dog that I feel pain for both.

[hlthe2b]

7. Yes... that added detail was very poignant..

[magical thyme]

10. held it together until that line. RIP Sparky

at least they crossed the bridge together.

[get the red out]

18. That was my thought too MT

ditto.

[Delphinus]

20. That was

exactly my first thought - that they were together.

I just heard a firefighter interviewed on NPR - he said this sort of thing will stay with them forever.

[karynnj]

11. What a disaster - I can't imagine how terrifying it was for all involved

I have family in Northwestern Indiana and Chicago. For the last week, they have complained that where Illinois has plowed and salted the interstates, the roads were horrible as soon as they crossed the Illinois/Indiana state line.

Obviously, the main cause was the lake effect snow storm that cut visibility, but I can't help wonder if an additional factor was that the roads still had ice from previous storms.

[BadtotheboneBob]

12. Happens every year on I-94 near Lake Michigan in winter...

Seriously... The 'Lake Affect' snow can be 'whiteout' hell. I know... I driven through it. But, I'll never do it again. Add the fact that I-94 is the main connection between Detroit and Chicago. See all those semi-trucks? I-94 is loaded with them its entire length between those cities. That road is dangerous all year round due to the heavy traffic.

[awoke_in_2003]

16. The two words I miss least about Cleveland...

lake effect

[lunasun]

17. Exactly!! I really doubt the trucks or cars were going at 'high speed' as someone posted above ...

"Whiteout" means you can not see in front of you=all white and you are following the lights in front of you

Someone I knew a few years ago went off the road into a ditch on 80
3 cars followed.
He asked why did you follow me off the road ? One driver said -I couldnt see the road and thought you knew where you were going.
He did see better due to height, but slid off the road anyway....it can get like lemmings when you are driving through this and you can not always get right off the higway when it starts.
This was a very narrow stream off the lake
I would think back roads would suck more during whiteout

[catbyte]

29. You're so right, BttbB. I've lived within 2-30 miles of Lake Michigan my entire life &

folks just don't understand how capricious lake effect snow is. It comes in from the lake in bands. It's not like a storm that lasts for hours like a Nor'easter. These bands can be very narrow and it can be bright sun crystal clear one minutes and, if you get under one of those snow bands, the next minute you can't see 5 feet in front of you. And you're right, that section of I-94 is scary in any weather.

BTW, welcome to DU!

[catbyte]

24. That stretch of I-94 is terrifying in July with all the semis whizzing by & boxing you in,

much less in the middle of a sudden whiteout. Jesus, seeing all those crushed cars just sends shivers down my spine

[hedgehog]

25. Maybe we're putting too much traffic on these roads -

freight trains, anyone?

[madrchsod]

33. these roads were designed and built in the 50`s.

if we didn't spend tens to hundreds of billions of dollars on our war machine we would have modern highways. highways were there would be built with modern road designs that would allow run off areas. a warning system that would alert drivers of conditions miles ahead.

there`s a lot we could do to prevent accidents like this but we have to police the world and feed the war machine.

[warrant46]

37. So true and build $40 Billion aircraft carriers

To bomb some goat herders mud hut in some desert in the middle of Asia--for "Freedom".

Also amazing how much money is required to stop the followers of 19 Religious Nut Jobs with box cutters, who wanted to discipline some New York bond traders.