Pope Francis calls for constructive dialogue in Ukraine

[onehandle]

Source: Reuters

ROME (Reuters) - Pope Francis called on Sunday for an end to violence in Ukraine after at least three people were killed during the latest clashes in the two-month crisis.

Police and demonstrators in Kiev clashed again on Sunday as protests against President Viktor Yanukovich's abrupt turn away from the European Union towards Russia, Ukraine's former Soviet overlord.

"I am close to Ukraine in prayer, in particular to those who have lost their lives in recent days and to their families," Pope Francis said in his weekly Angelus in St Peter's Square.

"I hope that a constructive dialogue between the institutions and civil society can take place, that any resort to violence is avoided and that the spirit of peace and a search for the common good is in the hearts of all."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-calls-constructive-dialogue-ukraine-123127686.html

[dipsydoodle]

1. Having now got to the point

where the opposition are saying that any attempts at conciliation by Yanukovich merely demonstrate weakness on his part I can only suggest they fuck 'em selves.

[Igel]

5. This is how the news goes.

It's best to recognize this unless you're willing to wallow in a bunch of news reports in half a dozen papers and two languages. Just to figure out part of what happened in one event that's I did for the last hour.

There was a pro-Yanukovych demonstration in Donetsk around the stature to Shevchenko on the "maidan" in the city. The main government building was surrounded by Berkutovtsy, and 300 or so members from "Afghan organizations" showed with some other groups--CP members, for instance.

Some pro-EU people also showed up, 30-50 of them. Before they had their protest, the pro-Yanukovych people "cleansed" the square. The big news was a "patriotic" flat was ripped. Lesser news was that a pro-EU man was beaten during the "cleansing."

After the pro-Yanukovych protest said nasty things about their foes and good things about themselves, esp. how they had commanded tanks and fought for their country--some in Afghanistan, some against the Germans--saying they're now there to protest fascism (because the EU is so thoroughly fascist) and promote stability and unity by protecting the government building, some of the pro-EU folk returned. One pro-Yanukovych man got hit in the head with a baseball bat. There was some pushing and name calling.

This was billed as a free-standing incident, without provocation, by fascist outsiders from Kiev, and was a Big Story.

Pro-EU guy hits beaten up by mob--main point is a flag was ripped. You have to hunt to find the news, and read down to find mention of the beating. Pro-Yanukovych protester gets hit by baseball bat, main point is fascists invaded Donetsk in order to attack those who desire peace.

Then there was the follow-up story about the pro-EU guy. The claim was that he was really pro-Yanukovych and had disagreed with the fascists with him, so they beat him up. Only to find him a bit later and blame the good citizens of Donetsk.

Much of the Ukrainian press ignored this incident as peripheral to what's happening in Zaporozhets, Odessa, Lviv, and Kyiv. (Yes, at this point my Ukrainian and Russian versions of place names are getting mixed.) Those that did cover it merged the stories into one small blip in which a small number of EU supporters were attacked, with some hotheaded member heading back later for retaliation. Given everything else, that story was peripheral. But typical.

To wade through the spin and propaganda takes a lot of work. For instance, most of the "bad" violence in Kiev is happening a few blocks away from the Maidan. Look for news that refers to the "Maidan" versus "downtown" or "center." The Maidan is a specific square. The "center" includes Grushenko street, which is where the violence earlier last week happened. Which, btw, included having a couple of protesters nabbed by Berkutovtsy and beaten and tortured, only to be left miles away in a village. Muddying that particular bit of advice is that some--but not all--of the protesters have started to occupy buildings not on the Maidan. From 1000 miles away, all those streets and squares look awfully close together.

Another example of strange spin. Take the two guys who were shot. The Interior Ministry saying that they gave orders to not use live ammo--and didn't even have those kinds of bullet in their arsenal-- so the protesters were obligatorily shot by protesters to make the government look bad. No Interior minister policeman or SWAT squad member could possibly violate orders. Or have an unapproved firearm. Nor could a politician in a heated situation be fibbing. "Truth" is a rare commodity.

And I don't know what to make of the press conference by some Maidan-folk holding up stun grenades that looked military and which they sad had been taken from some of the police that had been overrun and taken captive. The "grenades" were actually explosive devices of the kind that the Interior Ministry had been saying the demonstrators were using, just made up to look military. Or were they the grenades that the demonstrators *had* been using, made up by the demonstrators to make the Berkutovtsy look bad?

Gives me a headache.

[Bluenorthwest]

2. So that's his entire plan of action? He's going to hope and pray?

Funny, but to me it is simply not 'news' when a priest says he's going to pray. Breaking: Sun Rises In East, more to follow......

[rug]

3. Well let's see what everybody else is doing,

23 January 2014

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Vice President
January 23, 2014

Readout of Vice President Biden's Call with Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych

Vice President Biden called Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych today to urge an immediate de-escalation in the standoff between protesters and security forces in downtown Kyiv. The Vice President urged President Yanukovych to take steps to end violence and to meaningfully address the legitimate concerns of peaceful protesters, stressing the importance of the ongoing dialogue with the opposition and the need for genuine compromise as the only solution to the crisis. The Vice President underscored that freedoms of assembly and expression are fundamental pillars of a democratic society and must be protected. While emphasizing that violence by any side is not acceptable, the Vice President underscored that only the government of Ukraine can ensure a peaceful end to the crisis and further bloodshed would have consequences for Ukraine’s relationship with the United States. Vice President Biden encouraged President Yanukovych to find a peaceful resolution to the crisis.

Read more: http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2014/01/20140123291545.html#ixzz2rWBx6qlX

[Demenace]

4. What do expect him to do, send the war planes?

Sometimes, a honest word from those watching on the side lines can make a difference. The point is violence should not be encouraged in the quest for political power. The opposition should be reminded that there are these events called elections that we civilized people advice them to use in changing the direction of their government if their views of the government are indeed true.

This should be easy if the population agrees with them, wait and vote the government out otherwise this is another coup we are encouraging!

[Igel]

6. Not a good thing, having the Pope utter a peep.

Not an especially bad thing, considering how bad things are.

Best to remember that the West, the center of the pro-EU fervor, is the demographic center of the Uniate Catholic population in the Ukraine. Think "Eastern Rite Catholic", if that helps.

The East, the center of the anti-EU fervor, is Orthodox.

Is it a good thing that the Pope makes a pronouncement?

Is the Pope Catholic?

[TexasProgresive]

7. I guess you would like it better

if he mobilized the elite Swiss guard commandos to drop into Kiev, seize Yanukovich, spirit him on a ghost plane to the secret dungeons of the Vatican and water board him into submission.

[Boomerproud]

8. I understand your frustration but I re-read the book "JFK-The Unspeakable"

and was frankly shocked that both JFK and Khruschev admitted privately that Pope John XXIII wrote both of them letters during the Cuban Missile Crisis that softened Khruschev's stance and gave JFK some breathing room. I forgot JFK was holding off the Joint Chiefs who were pleading with him to bomb Cuba. Obviously the pope rarely makes a difference, but that time he did (and at the time John XXIII was dying and he knew it).