Kerry on Russia: “You just don’t” invade another country “on a completely trumped up pretext”

[newthinking]

Source: Salon

Secretary of State John Kerry made the round of Sunday shows this morning to condemn Russia’s “incredible act of aggression” in Ukraine, warning Prime Minister Vladimir Putin that the country faces harsh economic sanctions from the international community.

“It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country,” Kerry said on Face the Nation.
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But in the seriousness of the situation, the irony of Kerry’s next comments may have gone missed. ”You just don’t in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext,” he said.

He went on to repeat the assertion on Meet the Press, keeping a straight face as he told host David Gregory: ”You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests.”

Read more: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/02/kerry_on_russia_you_just_dont_invade_another_country_on_a_completely_trumped_up_pretext/

[Ash_F]

1. bwhahaahaha! /nt

[warrant46]

11. Was he talking to Bush about Iraq ?

Didn't think so==

[Ash_F]

13. Kerry voted for the Iraq war. /nt

[warrant46]

17. That was an overwhelming Act of Courage on his part

A real "Profile in Courage"

I guess Colon Bowell at the UN convinced him

[Plucketeer]

34. Can Kerry get replacements?

Replacement medals for the ones he foolishly tossed after Vietnam???

[warrant46]

39. Doubtful

I for one thought that was a childish way to make a statement.

It was a slap in the face to his subordinates who actually were killed and awarded purple hearts

His problem is people like me think he is a hypocrite especially when he voted for Bush's War

[olddad56]

40. Kerry and Bush were both members of Yale's secret Skull and Bones group.

He and to vote for Bushes war and he had to lose to him in 2004. He couldn't afford to cross his secret buddy.

[rwsanders]

43. You're one of the few others I have seen that makes that connection...

I thought his performances in their debates was pitiful. It was obvious he was holding back for some reason and letting Bush get away with outrageously ridiculous statements.

[wisteria]

45. Excuse me, but I watched all three debates and Kerry cleaned Bush's clock,

so to speak. What debates were you watching? Certainly not the Kerry vs Bush debates.

[2banon]

50. No Kerry didn't clean anyone's clock, but he could have

if he wanted to.

I was screaming at my tv when Kerry put on that miserable performance each time.

[Gary 50]

54. Kerry's performance

was poor. Bush's performance would have had to improve several levels to hit pathetic. The media called it a tie or said Bush won.

[karynnj]

56. No they didn't - BUSH/CHENEY did not even try to spin the 1st as a win

Not to mention, before the first debate, it seemed that Bush was coasting to a big win. The first debate alone moved the race into one that was competitive. The fact is that ONLY in his convention and the debates was the public able to see Kerry unfiltered by a mostly negative TV media. The fact is that Bush went into 2004 in better shape than any President in decades - and would have lost had there been enough voting machines in Ohio cities.

[warrant46]

65. +1

[wisteria]

112. Thank you for the accurate comments.

It is sad to see so many try to rewrite history. We we there, we were active in the campaign, yet some posters still tell us we are incorrect. I suppose some people simply believe what they want.

[2banon]

67. yep. that's pretty much how I remember it.. it was beyond infuriating all around.

[wisteria]

113. What were you watching? It certainly wasn't the Kerry/Bush debates.

Go do some research, history does not support your point of view.

[2banon]

114. History doesn't support my point of view?

Which alternate universe are you living in? Oh, wait.. you forgot to remove those rose tinted glasses, it seems. There's no history revision. To say Kerry gave a less than adequate performance would be putting it mildly. The Town hall debate was certainly the worst Of course, it bares repeating that Bush was being fed his lines, vis a vis an earpiece. His three word phrases, pause, short phrase, pause... largely ignored by the media.

Yes it was a hostile media as it is now. But I watched them very closely, as an activist very much involved in the anti-war movement and other progressive issues. I wanted Kerry to hand bush's ass to him, but he gave up his own on a silver platter.

[wisteria]

111. No, you are incorrect and trying to rewrite history. I was very involved in the Kerry campaign,

Kerry won two of the three debates hands down, and if you would like, I will provide numbers and press reports. The only media I would think would have reported the debates as you seem to remember them is Fox News.

[7962]

116. Actually, Fox reported that most people thought Kerry won the first 2 debates.

[MBS]

55. + 1 n/t

[blm]

82. Baloney. He won by a knockout every time. Media was in the tank for Bush and protecting him

mightily because their owners did NOT want Kerry in the WH.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 2, 2003


Kerry Seeks to Reverse FCC's "Wrongheaded Vote"
Commission decision may violate laws protecting small businesses; Kerry to file Resolution of Disapproval

Washington, DC - Senator John Kerry today announced plans to file a "Resolution of Disapproval" as a means to overturn today's decision by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to raise media ownership caps and loosen various media cross-ownership rules.

Kerry will soon introduce the resolution seeking to reverse this action under the Congressional Review Act and Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act on the grounds that the decision may violate the laws intended to protect America's small businesses and allow them an opportunity to compete.

As Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Kerry expressed concern that the FCC's decision will hurt localism, reduce diversity, and will allow media monopolies to flourish. This raises significant concerns about the potential negative impacts the decision will have on small businesses and their ability to compete in today's media marketplace.

In a statement released earlier today regarding the FCC's decision, Kerry said:

"Nothing is more important in a democracy than public access to debates and information, which lift up our discourse and give Americans an opportunity to make honest informed choices. Today's wrongheaded vote by the Republican members of the FCC to loosen media ownership rules shows a dangerous indifference to the consolidation of power in the hands of a few large entities rather than promoting diversity and independence at the local level. The FCC should do more than rubber stamp the business plans of narrow economic interests.

"Today's vote is a complete dereliction of duty. The Commissioners are well aware that these rules greatly influence the competitive structure of the industry and protect the public's access to multiple sources of information and media. It is the Commission's responsibility to ensure that the rules serve our national goals of diversity, competition, and localism in media. With today's vote, they shirked that responsibility and have dismissed any serious discussion about the impact of media consolidation on our own democracy."

[Alcibiades]

58. It wasn't after Vietnam

The war was still ongoing at the time when Kerry supposedly tossed his medals, which is why he tossed them.

But it seems they belonged to someone else anyway.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=123495

John Kerry had it both ways. There was then, as now, a big difference between the decorations earned by an officer being groomed for higher things, and those earned by the other ranks. My father spent much of my childhood in combat in Vietnam, two long tours and three short tours, and never earned a silver star, but Kerry did it in a few months. The swiftboat people were wrong, of course he did what was claimed, but it's doubtful a pfc or nco would have earned that award for those acts.

[Plucketeer]

64. I agree with what you say

What I meant was after Kerry's time in Vietnam.

[blm]

79. JK did 2 tours, one on ship, re-signed for swift boat training, then Vietnam. Odd how RW revisionism

holds so much sway over the narrative, even with the left.

BTW - Kerry was organizing the protest in DC. When the idea came up to toss the medals it was too late for him to go back to Boston, especially since he was the spokesperson for the group and representing the protest with the press.

Interesting that there are so many lies made up, planted, and spread to smear Kerry - the one person who has investigated and exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history.

[Alcibiades]

93. It would be really awesome

If he could apply some of that investigative talent to the Iraq War, for example, before he voted to authorize force, or now, when the people who took America to war on a phony pretext are still free, or at least have some desire to avoid what some would call hubris when decrying Putin's use of a "phony pretext" when he occupies the office Colin Powell did when he went before the UN.

And yes, I worked my ass off for him when he was our nominee. Still wrong.

[blm]

94. He voted for IWR's guidelines, then sided with the weapon inspectors AGAINST the use of force

because it was proven that force was not needed.

I think it is irresponsible of anyone who cares about the historic record to target Kerry as not credible and continue the mockery and degradation that has been key to the Establishment DC who have wanted him completely discredited since Vietnam and especially since he exposed IranContra, BCCI, S&Ls, and CIA drug running.

You never noticed the inordinate amount of vitriol that Kerry gets heaped on him by agitators from the right, left and middle? It's been going on for 4 decades...you never really noticed or were you too busy jumping on the bandwagon to think abut it?

[warrant46]

97. Force was used

To make thousands of Gold Star mothers who cry daily over their children who died for NOTHING

[blm]

108. And Kerry was against that invasion and the use of force. He sided with weapon inspectors and

those incapable of discernment continue to attack him for it more than any other lawmaker. Corpmedia wins with most people.

[Deep North]

102. Nice post...

You'll not get through the pro-Putin BS here, or the false equivalence of the Iraq=Ukraine comparison, where somehow because the Cheney/Bush administration invaded Iraq, the Obama Administration cannot decry the invasion of Ukraine. The apt comparison here is Germany and the Sudetenland.

[Ash_F]

110. The IWR passing made War a forgone conclusion

I am sure Kerry knew that before voting. I knew that and I was a teenager.

[Judi Lynn]

105. It's hard to believe any Democrat didn't bother to listen well enough to grasp what happened

regarding the event in Washington D.C. when soldiers threw their medals, ribbons, etc. over the fence at the White House, but, rather, chose to spread the right-wing lies idiot Republicans spewed in place of the easily recognized facts. Hard to believe this is STILL being perpetrated, regardless of common knowledge of the truth.

For anyone who actually has no clue what happened, please do read this short article which throws light on the subject:

Wednesday, Apr 28, 2004 05:18 PM CDT

Why Kerry threw his ribbons

The veterans who tossed their medals at the steps of the U.S. Capitol in 1971 just wanted to wake up their country to the disastrous tragedy of Vietnam.

Douglas Brinkley
http://www.salon.com/2004/04/28/medals/

[joshcryer]

46. Technically he voted for authorization in the event of non-compliance.

But yes he voted for the Iraq War, as Bush had already decided Saddam was not "going to comply" and the writing was on the wall. It is incredibly naive to think that Kerry didn't know it at the time.

[treestar]

59. He was convinced by Bush's lies

You can't have it both ways. Either Bush lied, and so Kerry thought there was a reason for the war, or Bush didn't lie, and you are saying you were against the war even if Saddam had WMD. However, your slam at Kerry is not justified.

[arikara]

73. Bush lied and the millions who were out on the streets protesting

all knew it. Most of the world knew it. If Kerry didn't know it then he's plain stupid and doesn't belong in the position he has. He voted for the war because he was toeing the S&B line.

[treestar]

75. That's not true

How do the millions protesting in the street have this magical knowledge? If you believed Powell, you were fooled, and that happens. One doesn't have to be stupid. Then everyone is stupid, since no one has a crystal ball or infallible knowledge.

[Phlem]

77. Umm. There are some people who use the God given grey matter between their ears.

I knew it was total bullshit.



-p

[treestar]

99. So if you are so much smarter than Kerry , maybe you need to run for Senate

Not from Massachusetts, but somehow, I think in the choice between you and Kerry, hmmm..

[Phlem]

100. Oooo K then,

At least I can tell who pays their salaries but if your going to buy into that, guess what? You win the Pony!



They are not Saints or made of Stardust, they are REPRESENTATIVES that WE EMPLOY.



FFS

-p

[Phlem]

104. It's called Empirical evidence.

Everything else is bullshit.

Look it up.

-p

[Edim]

107. Smart people are not allowed/welcome in Senate

or any other political body. One has to be a scoundrel and stupid/naive.

[arikara]

91. None of it was convincing.

None of it. Not Afghanistan, but especially not the crap leading to the butchery in Iraq. And I repeat, millions saw through it. I was out on the street with the thousands in my city several times. Nobody wanted that invasion to happen except the neo cons and their enablers. Kerry voted for it and that makes him either one or the other because I really don't think he's a stupid man.

So that he can go on about Russia’s “incredible act of aggression” regarding Ukraine with a straight face is surreal, one couldn't be faulting for thinking this article came right out of the Onion.

[Ash_F]

89. Plenty of people had the correct position of not supporting the war

If you were smart, you wouldn't have been duped.

But you have to be smart.

Besides even if they did have WMDs, plenty of other 'rogue' states have them. That doesn't make starting a war the prudent thing to do.

[saidsimplesimon]

61. "Kerry voted for Iraq War", so did hrc, shame on them. n/t

[warrant46]

92. What's a few Bombs here and there ? N/t

[840high]

103. +100 heehee

[Judi Lynn]

106. It's all so Twilight Zone! n/t

[TwilightGardener]

2. Well, we Americans know that more than anybody. Except Iraqis, maybe.

Wrong when we do it, wrong when anyone does it.

[femmocrat]

3. I heard that, too.

Oh, the irony.

[JVS]

4. Maybe the emphasis was on the word "you"

[LisaL]

22. But of course.

[tofuandbeer]

29. :D

[dipsydoodle]

5. Compliments to him

Last edited Sun Mar 2, 2014, 08:04 PM - Edit history (1)

on managing to keep a straight face.

[Adam051188]

7. i hope you forgot your "sarcasm" thingy

[Adam051188]

6. the fact that he was able to say that with a straight face worries me.

he could say something like "This is a domestic affair within the nation of Ukraine, who has previously shown interest in joining the European union and thus should be permitted to determine it's political fate without outside intervention." that would make more sense. it would also make sense for the politicians within the Ukraine to not persecute the ethnic Russians in the region that seems interested in rebelling. This whole affair stinks to high heaven.

[amandabeech]

18. That would have been a very good statement.

The only thing that I would tweek a bit would be to ask Ukrainians of all ethnic and linguistic groups to treat each other with the utmost respect and civility during these difficult times. It may not be a good idea to single out any one group as the victim and any one group as the persecutor here, IMHO.

[mike_c]

8. WTF?!

THIS, from an American Secretary of State?

Let's just toss credibility out along with moral authority.

[Plucketeer]

33. Yah Butt...

We's da biggest, baddest Sum Biches in the solar system! What WE do is exempt from scrutiny - while the rest of the system has to play by the rools!

[Bill76]

9. What he means is "YOU don't invade on a trumped-up pretext"...

but WE can do it because America.

[Arugula Latte]

63. You got it. Welcome to DU!

[grasswire]

10. Did Kerry vote for the Iraq war resolution? nt

[Maedhros]

19. Yes. [n/t]

[cstanleytech]

21. As did a number of other politicians though because they based their vote on the "evidence"

that the whitehouse was presenting back then about the alleged WMD program which we now know was a load of horseshit.
But back this current topic.............yes the irony is thick over a US official saying something like this after the mess we made in Iraq.

[sendero]

35. Plenty of people..

... including many Democratic congresspersons, did not buy into the obvious lies and voted against the IWR. But not Kerry, an action for which he can try to forget but I won't.

[Skittles]

115. plenty of us thinking folk knew it was bullshit back then

[frwrfpos]

12. i never knew Kerry could do deadpan humor so well

[Junkdrawer]

36. And I thought John Cleese was good...

[frwrfpos]

37. its just resting...lmao

[Junkdrawer]

38. Pining for the fjords...Gone to the Choir Invisible

How did they do that?

[ElboRuum]

14. It seems like he was referring to... someone...

...for the life of me I can't imagine who it could be though...

[ladjf]

15. Hmm. That was an unfortunate statement Mr. Secretary. nt

[Deep13]

16. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....nt

[arcane1]

20. He then added "you have to 'shock and awe' them first"

[blkmusclmachine]

23. Tell George Bu$h that!

[ReRe]

24. We live in surreal times

How was it possible for him to say that? We must live in different worlds, that's all I can say.

[cosmicone]

25. You can't make this shyt up LOL n/t

[tclambert]

26. Ginning up a phony pretext is traditional before invading another country.

Why do you hate tradition? You have to make up a phony one because who would support the true reason, which for us is always oil? Say it's for freedom. Everybody says they love freedom. Even slave owners supported freedom--the freedom to own slaves. If not for phony pretexts, how would we ever get to fight a war?

[quadrature]

27. next meeting of Obama and Putin is when?...nt

[Vinnie From Indy]

28. I had that on in the background today as I made the house a big breakfast

and laughed out loud as I poured pancakes on the griddle.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

30. You supported the invasion of Iraq, John. Glass houses, you know.

[blm]

87. No, he didn't. He voted for IWR and then sided with weapon inspectors that force was not needed

and was the only IWR voter to speak against Bush's decision to invade after the weapon inspectors' report.

Of course, the corporate media controls much of what everyone thinks, while truth has to hang on via life support.

[Psephos]

31. Pathetic. n/t

[daleo]

32. Part of the blowback from Bush's invasion of Iraq

Most of the world simply won't take the west seriously any longer, on this point.

[magical thyme]

41. yeah, cuz, uh, we got dibs on that right.

[trublu992]

42. Careful Kerry that's exactly what the Bush admin did

ooh hurts doesn't it

[heaven05]

44. yes you do

just ask bush et al;

[jtuck004]

47. In other news, John Kerry announces he is running for the spot of late night comedian... n/t

[joshcryer]

48. Here's an angle: 2018, Kerry, former SoS claims Bush belongs in the Hague.

"Well, yes, I even said before the Ukraine-Russia conflict in 2015 where Russia had killed twenty thousand ethnic Ukrainians before Poland joined the fight and the US mobilized carriers that trumped up pretexts were not a reason to invade a country. So, yes, Bush belongs in the Hague. I fully support President Hillary Clinton in her endeavor to see the evidence and a just trial."

Funny how political traipsing works.

[karynnj]

57. Not likely -- even if a no longer in government JK said that, no US President would

lead that effort. (Not to mention, JK was more negative on Bush's actions in 2003, than the Clintons were.)

[2banon]

49. wait... this is the ONION!

right?

please say it is... please.

[aquart]

51. Has Putin stopped laughing?

[Nihil]

109. Yes and then accepted it as the tacit "Help yourself" that it is.

Indignant hypocritical bluster usually translates to "We're not in a position to do anything about it".

No illusion that this time is any different.

I have mixed feelings about Kerry (mostly disappointment these days) but he's in a bit of an
impossible position thanks to:
a) A long US military history of invading other countries on a trumped-up pretext.
b) The (lack of) political credibility in any SoS over the last few decades.
c) The total insanity of any non-diplomatic resolution that he can put forward.

[arewenotdemo]

52. So relieved to see that most people here understand the serious disconnect.

To be honest, after seeing the level of support here for attacking Syria, I didn't know what to expect.

[The Wizard]

53. Step away from the defense contractor bribes

and reflect on the immoral invasion and occupation of Iraq that you voted to support. Bush destroyed our morals and compromised our position on the International stage. Who can we criticize with a straight face? It will take generations to remove the Bush cartel taint from the United States.

[emsimon33]

60. What about Iraq, Vietnam, Grenada...to name just a few

[toby jo]

62. Bush doing it was an 8-yr slap in the face, but when your own side does it,

it really hits hard.

[reddread]

76. do you think any of the post 1999 disaster

could have been done without bipartisanship?
that anyone in the beltway believes anything they said?
cant say I do.

[frylock]

66. comedy gold

[FiveGoodMen]

68. He'll be here all week, folks!

Try the veal.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

69. Maybe he's against invasion after he was for it, but prior to that, he was for it before he was ...

... against it?

This makes my head hurt.

[blm]

83. Do you even KNOW what the original statement was about? I don't think you do.

Kerry voted for the $87 billion funding bill that was paid for by ending Bush's tax cut for the richest.

When the GOP knocked that bill down he voted against the $87 billion supplemental funding of the Iraq war.

You all are so clever to further the Rovian spin.

PS - Almost EVERY vote in Congress and the Senate is a vote for or against a bill, and then a vote for or against the alternative bill. Hooray for RW propaganda that keeps America's public informed with THEIR version of reality.

[hrmjustin]

70. Wow! I did a double take when I just read this.

[abakan]

71. No wonder our standing in the world is down and falling.....

Our officials, elected or appointed say crap only they can believe, giving them zero credibility. The rest of the world knows crap when they see it. Mr. Kerry, may not invade another country, but we do and he knows it.

[Orsino]

72. The Secretary of Defense just put Stewart and Colbert at DEFCON 1. n/t

[davekriss]

74. Chickens have come home to roost

Thank you George Bush, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, yes you too Powell - thus is the price of sacrificing our nation's moral standing for your personal (deluded) ambitions.

Our crying "no pretext for war!" is laughed at by the world.

[fedsron2us]

78. Who says Americans do not get irony

[dflprincess]

98. I was thinking that Kerry has proved that it's not just Republicans who are irony deficient. nt

[Phlem]

80. FFS

-p

[blm]

81. So Miss Abrams is equating Kerry with Bush? Perhaps she missed everything that transpired

in the public arena after the weapon inspectors began reporting on their findings in January and February of 2003?

[reddread]

86. Drizzle, Drazzle, Drozzle,Drome

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x400758

[blm]

88. You aren't credible to me. I know the truth inside and out. I'll side with the truth every time.

There isn't any revisionist history you can post that will change the truth and all the details involved in that truth.

There is a pack of you intent on getting your Kerry hate on - and I think that shows that you are not very steeped in the actual facts regarding Kerry's decades of service to this country.

You certainly CAN'T name one person in the last 4 decades who investigated and exposed more government corruption than Kerry. Can you?

[reddread]

90. "a pack"? maybe a few groupies looking for baby daddys

love the Edwards hangers on.
Hindsight to the blind.
Hindsight to the blind.
Aint got no time for Kerry hatin.
Too busy wondering why people accept their crimes and want to move on...

[blm]

95. I think you're under informed or misinformed.

.

[reddread]

96. I cannot say or believe that about John Kerry n/t

[suston96]

84. Putin is the Prime Minister?

In the OP:

"Secretary of State John Kerry made the round of Sunday shows this morning to condemn Russia’s “incredible act of aggression” in Ukraine, warning Prime Minister Vladimir Putin that the country faces harsh economic sanctions from the international community."

[blm]

85. Miss Abrams is new to writing about foreign policy - IIRC, she's a health editor.

Funny how this silly 'report' from her has so many here hanging their hat on her view of it.

[lostincalifornia]

101. Viet Nam, Iraq, Panama, Grenada, blah, blah, blah