Russian PM Medvedev Warns Ukraine's New Leaders They Won't Last

[Purveyor]

Source: REUTERS

(Reuters) - Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Facebook on Sunday that Ukraine's leaders had seized power illegally, and predicted their rule would end with "a new revolution" and new bloodshed.

Medvedev said that, while Viktor Yanukovich had practically no authority, he remained the legitimate head of state according the constitution, adding: "If he is guilty before Ukraine - hold an impeachment procedure ... and try him."

"Everything else is lawlessness. The seizure of power," Medvedev said on his Facebook page. "And that means such order will be extremely unstable. It will end in a new revolution. New bloodshed."

The remarks were part of a series of Russian statements attacking the legitimacy of the pro-Western government that has been formed since Yanukovich fled Kiev more than a week ago. He surfaced on Friday in Russia.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/02/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-medvedev-idUSBREA210SB20140302

[hrmjustin]

1. I thought old president was legally impeached.

[elleng]

2. How? When?

I don't recall any kind of process, but I may have missed it.

[hrmjustin]

3. I thought the Parliament removed him.

[LisaL]

7. So if congress here removes Obama and elects someone else, would that be legit?

[hrmjustin]

8. Not according to our laws but I don't know what the Ukraine law is on the subject.

[Adrahil]

77. Congress does have the authority to impeach the President...NT

[awoke_in_2003]

82. Yes, the House can impeach...

then the senate (headed by the Chief Justice) can try, and remove the president. If that happens, the VP becomes president. The impeaching body does not name the successor. I cannot speak to the Ukranian constitution, I only know how ours goes.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

102. If the Ukraine has Parliamentary rule then yes they can name a successor.

Under a parliamentary system the voters select a member of parliament. The majority party then sets up the government and selects the executives.

[LisaL]

86. And then they can elect a new one?

It would be like the congress here decides to impeach Obama and then elect whoever it is they like.
A majority of US congress are likely dreaming of doing that.

[EmilyAnne]

89. They named an interim leader. Elections are to be held in May.

Candidates must be registered by April.
Of course, if Ukraine is engaged in a full scale war, that might disrupt the electoral process.

[TwilightGardener]

9. They did. I don't remember if it was before or after he left in the middle of the

night and his cabinet disappeared, though. I'm also noticing that no one is seriously wanting him back, as far as I can tell.

[hrmjustin]

10. I think it was after he fled.

[TwilightGardener]

11. What were they supposed to do, then? Wait for him to come back?

Why didn't he stay and follow the terms of the peace deal that was arranged (and that Russia refused to sign, because the terms weren't favorable enough to Russia)? Pretty hinky stuff being pulled by Russia, all told.

[hrmjustin]

12. Putin should be ashamed.

[another_liberal]

17. Once again . . .

Since when is a trip to a neighboring nation grounds for a democratically elected President to be removed from office? In which international treaty is that democratic principle enshrined?

[TwilightGardener]

19. LOL--he DISAPPEARED!! He fled! It was fucking "where's waldo" for four days.

[another_liberal]

24. All your humor aside . . .

One does not remove a democratically elected head of government from office in that manner, not if one is a person who believes in democratic principles and the rule of law. Yanukovich had been gone less than a day when protester-supporting members of the Rada had already declared his Presidency at an end. That is a coup, plain and simple.

[TwilightGardener]

29. Not a coup. Impeachment. He left, and didn't really give them a phone number

where he could be reached. And didn't leave a deputy in charge. Kind of like he wasn't coming back. And tell me where the outcry is for him to come back and fulfill the terms of the peace deal that HE SIGNED? No, he left because Russia didn't accept those terms and he had no support at all. Russia is only using him as a prop now.

[another_liberal]

42. Oh, right . . .

He, "Didn't leave a phone number." That always trumps the results of a democratic election. (sigh)

[geek tragedy]

54. no, but when the despot starts murdering political opponents and stealing billions of dollars,

he loses legitimacy.

[another_liberal]

58. Those charges would have to be proven.

And not before a truncated Rada Parliament from which his supporters have been driven by threat of violence. This was a coup, and that is how history will record it.

[geek tragedy]

60. the charge of theft from the public has already been proven

Unless you think he paid for the ZOO and GOLF COURSE and TALL SHIP on his estate with his civil servant pay.

You and Vladimir Putin and the paid talking bots at RT are the only ones beating the drum about this guy being the only legitimate leader for Ukraine.

[another_liberal]

73. That is very possibly evidence, it does not constitute a conviction.

There is a legal way to convict someone, and there are lynch mobs. What happened in Kiev was much more the latter than it was the former.

[Chan790]

83. Those charges would have been proven...

if he hadn't fled in the night to avoid being convicted...and disposed of in the same way as every other deposed head of state of the past 50 years.

I mean I can't blame him...if I murdered my own people and knew I was going to be tried, easily convicted and hung before my corpse was dragged through the street by a donkey cart, I'd flee too. I'm not a supporter of capital punishment, especially when it's my execution.

But no, at this point, he's a deposed former head-of-state and all the caterwauling in the world won't legitimate his attempts to re-seize power. He should make like the smart ones and retire to the south of France, trading his promise to never return for a lifetime pension.

[Splinter Cell]

104. HE WAS IMPEACHED

What part of that do you fail to understand?

[another_liberal]

106. His impeachment was utterly illegal.

The Yanukovich supporting majority in Ukraine's Rada Parliament was driven out of Kiev with him, or forced to change their political allegiance under threat of physical violence. His impeachment was just the closing act of a coup by violent street mobs and the minority of parliament members who supported them.

What part of that don't you understand.

[cosmicone]

30. We didn't know where Bush was on 9/11 after "My Pet Goat"

and Dick Cheney was not seen for months.

It is a standard custom and practice for elected leaders to be protected elsewhere when there is an armed uprising by a handful of thugs, neonazis and fascists as in Ukraine.

Would you invite any of those new "leaders" to dinner at your house to learn how Hitler was right but was not determined enough? Those very same people have lost countless elections in Ukraine and are NOT popular.

This was a coup d'etat orchaestrated by the CIA with the US ambassador handing out cookies in the Maidan to these fascists and neonazis.

[TwilightGardener]

37. Well, goodness, where is the demand for him to come back with his billions

that he stole, then, and hold up the exact terms of the peace deal that all parties signed EXCEPT RUSSIA?

[Ecumenist]

32. BUT not before he tried to get rid of the paper trail that exposed his HINKY

dealings, threw many into a pond on his property, which were found because they FLOATED to the top.

[TwilightGardener]

34. Yup.

[joshcryer]

41. Oh right he went there on vacation, duh.

As well as a couple of dozen of his parliamentary associates.

[another_liberal]

50. Actually, they fled for their lives, but what difference does that make.

An elected President of a country has the right to travel for any reason he wants. If the voters don't like his travel, they can remove him from office in the next election. That is democracy. What we have currently in Kiev is rule by the mob.

[joshcryer]

79. or the duly elected parliament can impeach

[geek tragedy]

47. "A trip to a neighboring nation." You must have believed "hiking the Appalachian trail" nt

[another_liberal]

53. I'll say it one more time . . .

It really doesn't matter why he went where he did, his doing so was still not grounds for removing a democratically elected national leader.

[geek tragedy]

55. no, his loss of legitimacy does though--and ordering SNIPERS to shoot at political opponents

as well as stealing a healthy portion of the country's GDP for his own personal benefit certainly means he's lost legitimacy as a leader

as does an overwhelming show of no confidence in the country's parliament.

he is more than welcome to come back, and immediately surrender himself to law enforcement to stand trial

[another_liberal]

64. This is becoming monotonous . . .

Those charges would have to be proven, and not before a truncated Rada Parliament from which his supporters have been driven by threat of violence. This was a coup, and that is how history will record it.

[geek tragedy]

65. just like reposting RT's news feed and the Putin regime's press releases is monotonous

Do you have a possible explanation for the fact that the former President had a zoo, a huge car collection, a Galleon, and a golf course on ONE of his estates that doesn't involve gross corruption and theft?

[another_liberal]

72. No, how he got them is suspicious indeed.

However, only an unbiased court of law can convict someone of what you suggest, not the illegal, rump Parliament from which all democratically elected members who supported Yanukovich's government had be driven on threat of physical violence.

[Deep North]

107. Dude...

...the place is being pounded by pro-Putin boiler-room posters. Given that this board is supposed to be about US Democratic Party politics in general...the pro-russian spamshit should be curtailed by the admins.

[levp]

88. "YanukovychLeaks": National Project (A group investigating the documents found in Mezhihirya)

http://yanukovychleaks.org/
On Feb. 22, volunteer divers found nearly 200 folders of documents at a lake at the residence of former president of Ukraine. They had been thrown in the lake to destroy them as people were escaping the compound.

A group of journalists and activists has undertaken to rescue, systematize and investigate the enormous wealth of information about the former owners of the residence.

The recovered documents are being published on this website to make them available to journalists and citizens around the world.

The investigations based on these documents will also be published here and in Ukrainian media.

[newthinking]

71. Are you really so naive you think that the remaining MPs were not doing the same?

If you do then you don't know much about Ukraine.

[Adrahil]

78. Here ya go....

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/02/how-ukraine-s-parliament-brought-down-yanukovych.html

[kelly1mm]

5. If he was impeached, what is the rule of succession? Like in the US, that would be the VP.

There is probably some mechanism in the Ukraine for who takes over if impeachment/removal happens. If that person who is supposed to take over has not, then whoever is saying they are in charge is illegitimate, no?

[hrmjustin]

6. I don't know their laws.

I thought since the parliment removed him they had the right to name the new president and call for new elections.

[kelly1mm]

14. Perhaps they do have that power, I don't know either. But, if they do not, and

for arguments sake let's say the VP was supposed to take over, and he/she did not because someone else stepped in, that would make whomever is saying they are in charge illegitimate, correct?

[hrmjustin]

16. Well it would depend if they impeached him as well or what the rules are.

Whatever the case the old president is not legally president anymore.

[dipsydoodle]

18. Current situation isn't in compliamce with their own constitution

and just seems to fit with possession is 9/10ths of the law.

[hrmjustin]

21. Does the parliment have the right to remove him?

[dipsydoodle]

22. Use advance search

for stevenleser to find relevant link concerning their constitution.

[hrmjustin]

23. Thanks. I am a bit off now because we just got news of a death of a great duer.

Grateful for hope

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=169559

[joshcryer]

43. You have not established that any way whatsoever.

[dipsydoodle]

46. From memory.

I thought it was you that Steven replied to last week or the week before on the subject but I might be wrong on that. I'm not bothering to search it again having already done so in the last day or two.

[joshcryer]

51. Here is the thread, he did not respond:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=736181

The constitution literally says the "investigation" is "ad hoc."

They could claim they did it while walking down the hallway into Parliament.

[Adrahil]

81. Well....

You could argue that it didn't follow the process, though the process is rather protracted. But ultimately it ends in a vote of the parliament. Since some 70% of the parliament voted to impeach! I do think the spirit of the process was followed, given the crisis of time.

Here's an interesting read:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/02/how-ukraine-s-parliament-brought-down-yanukovych.html

[another_liberal]

20. He wasn't legally impeached . . .

After Yanukovich agreed to withdraw police from the streets, members of his ruling Parliamentary majority were physically run out of Kiev by street thugs and the truncated Rada that remained seized power.

There is such a thing as the historical record.

[geek tragedy]

56. Blah blah blah, you want the guy who stole billions and ordered troops to shoot

protestors back in power, and you're simultaneously pretending to be concerned about the rule of law and democracy.

Just say "I agree with whatever Putin says" and save the trouble.

[another_liberal]

61. Charges of theft would have to be proven . . .

And not by a rump Parliament which has already outlawed all political parties which supported Yanukovich's government.

As to your other accusation: The riot police were ordered to fire on protesters in occupied buildings who had begun to shoot policemen on the street. Several policemen had already been taken to hospitals with gunshot wounds before the order for snipers to open fire was given.

There is such a thing as an historical record.

[geek tragedy]

63. They have been proven, beyond not only any reasonable doubt, but any doubt.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024545597

[another_liberal]

67. Those are pictures of a boat and a collection of vehicles . . .

They may constitute evidence, but only an unbiased court of law can convict someone of the kind of charges you suggest. The rump Parliament now in power in Kiev is no such court.

[geek tragedy]

69. LMAO. "they may constitute evidence" we're done here nt

[another_liberal]

70. ". . . we're done here."

Finally!

[Adrahil]

80. Well, that's ONE version of history I guess.

But 328 members of parliament voted to boot his sorry ass out.

[cprise]

91. Sorry. Armed rioters had taken over government buildings.

It might have been valid if they had done the vote days earlier, however. But not under duress.

And not with US diplomats having negotiated Yanukovych's replacement weeks earlier while he was still a sitting president. That calls for an automatic response from Russia to protect its "interests" in the region, just as we Americans are fond of protecting "interests" in other countries.

[cosmicone]

25. Yanukovytch was NOT legally removed from power.

It is almost akin to tea party demonstrators with help from external countries made Washington a mess and seized power at gunpoint.

The people in power today have lost countless elections in the Ukraine and would never be able to get elected because they are neonazis and fascists.

These are the people our US Ambassador was seen distributing cookies to!

[hrmjustin]

26. Yes I heard the new crowd is not good. This stinks.

[amandabeech]

57. There is a lot of propaganda out there.

The only thing that seems readily apparent is that Putin doesn't like the new folks or the new situation.

I've done a lot of reading and it is clear to me that there are two problematic parties who may not like each other much but aren't more than 15-20% max of the current government. They are Svboda (sp) and Right Sektor. Right Sektor looks like the more energetic of the two, but neither of them nor the two together have anything close to a majority.

The rest of the government doesn't look frightening to me, although there are probably too many really rich business types for some people in Ukraine.

Some of members of Yanukovich's Party of Regions went over to the opposition and some are MIA.

Yanukovich was thrown out by a vote of about 350 out of 400-something, so it was a sizable majority, although perhaps not as large as necessary under some version of the Ukrainian constitution.

What I think that we are seeing is what was a relatively bloodless revolution by a lot of folks who didn't like Yanu particularly after he turned down the EU offer and went with Putin, and others who are sick to death of the extreme corruption at every level of Ukrainian government and society.

Some Ukrainians, of any and all ethnic and linguistic groups, must look at the EU and see countries operating under the rule of law with little to moderate corruption and a better standard of living. The view to the East may look like more of the same.

Does Russia have a legitimate reason to be concerned. Yes.

Does Russia have a legitimate reason to get involved in another country's internal affairs with any kind of armed individuals, contract or otherwise. No.

I don't know about you, but when there's a very, very noticeable uptick of posts using the words "fascists" and "Nazis" appearing all over the internet at the same time, I tend to be rather skeptical.

[hrmjustin]

59. Thank you for your post. It was very helpful.

I hope cooler heads prevail and a settlement is reached.

[amandabeech]

68. Thank you. You and I are in agreement.

This really can be worked out peacefully over time if everyone just thinks before acting.

[newthinking]

74. Fatherland party is about 20%

However you are right that it is still a minority. If you add the other two you are no more than 30-35% if that.

[amandabeech]

76. Fatherland is Tymoshenko's party.

I think that Tymoshenko is as corrupt as they come, but I don't see her as having anything to do with Stepan Bandera and the Ukrainians who fought the Soviets with the Nazis in WWII.

Tymoshenko is actually from the southeastern party of the country, rather than the far west where Svoboda and Right Sektor have their largest number of supporters.

So, despite the name of the party, I see Fatherland as a conservative party but not in the same league as the other two.

[TwilightGardener]

31. Propaganda.

[cosmicone]

33. lol .. you can't refute it can you? n/t

[TwilightGardener]

39. Yep:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4590894

[cosmicone]

40. A link to your own thread as proof?

With a partisan blog as the citation? LMAO hahahahahahahahahahahaha

You might as well have quoted National Inquirer. "Woman receives FAX from heaven signed by Jesus" ROFL

[EmilyAnne]

90. Here. Since you really want to get to the bottom of this

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/mar/01/ukraine-haze-propaganda/

[cprise]

92. That is just a narrative, which also counts as propaganda

...which we are very accustomed to getting from US mass media nowadays.

I see video after video on places like DemocracyNow and Youtube showing mostly highly restrained police. I see rioters fire bombing them as early as Dec. 6. They also threw hundreds of bricks (not stones) and used a bulldozer to shove the police bodily.

The BBC puts the first rioter casualties at the hands of police at Jan. 22.

Unlike coverage of US protests and riots, there is apparently no concern from the US media as to what happened to those policemen. If those were US police here in the US, a mere fraction of the Ukraine violence against them would elicit torrents of treacle-y admiration for our "heroes".

And while I might agree that the uprising was "popular", that does not mean they're in the majority. Fascists were "popular" in 1930s Germany but that did not mean they could get enough votes.

[cprise]

101. Incidentally, that site does seem to push propaganda itself:

On January 16, the Ukrainian government, headed by President Yanukovych, tried to put an end to Ukrainian civil society. A series of laws passed hastily and without following normal procedure did away with freedom of speech and assembly, and removed the few remaining checks on executive authority. This was intended to turn Ukraine into a dictatorship and to make all participants in the Maidan, by then probably numbering in the low millions, into criminals. The result was that the protests, until then entirely peaceful, became violent.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/20/fascism-russia-and-ukraine/?insrc=rel

It would be interesting to learn the actual parameters of these so-called dictatorship laws; they certainly sound as if an establishment was trying to clamp down on dissent. Its also fairly common in the West to clamp down on freedoms when TPTB feel threatened.

However, that claim about totally peaceable protesters is totally wrong. The rioters' violence goes back to at least early December, as I doubt the upload dates on all those Youtube videos were falsified. The publication is either mistaken or pushing a CFR-like falsehood around which the rest of the article's point hinge.

[jakeXT]

4. So he figured it out

Naturally, Russia is worried about developments in Ukraine, but is unsure how to react. Here’s how Russian PM Dmitry Medvedev summed it up the other day:

“We do not understand what is going on there. A real threat to our interests (exists) and to the lives and health of our citizens. Strictly speaking, today there is no one there to communicate with … If you think that people in black masks waving Kalashnikovs (represent) a government, then it will be difficult for us to work with such a government

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/28/obamas-dumbest-plan-yet/

[another_liberal]

13. It may be that P. M. Medvedev has something there.

If the Ukrainian military continues to refuse orders, and even desert to the other side, the coup government in Kiev won't last long at all. Here (as reported by RT News) are some recent developments along those lines:

Five top military, security commanders take oath to Crimea.

A number of high ranking Ukrainian military and security officials in Crimea have sworn their allegiance to the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, as Simferopol pushes for its autonomy from the self-imposed government in Kiev. The head of the Security Service of Crimea Petyor Zima, Chief of Department of Internal Affairs in the Crimea Sergey Abisov, the head of Service for Emergency Situations Sergei Shakhov and acting Chief of the Border Guards of Crimea Victor Melnichenko all took an oath of allegiance to the people of Crimea. Earlier rear admiral Denis Berezovsky swore allegiance to the people of Crimea taking control over Crimea's newly formed Navy.

The ceremony took place in the Council of Ministers chamber in the presence of regional government officials, mayors of different cities and regions. Those who took the oath promised “to respect and strictly observe the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea” and to “promote the preservation of interethnic accord and civil peace” on the peninsula.

"I believe that this day will go down in history of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea as the day that all law enforcement agencies were established in the autonomy,” The region's Prime Minister Sergey Aksyonov announced. “We will prove that the Crimeans are capable of protecting themselves and ensure the safety and freedom of our citizens.” Aksyonov also added that other authority figures are willing to swear allegiance to the people of the Crimea in the near future. “Up to now, 90 per cent of all law enforcement agencies in the territory of the autonomy are subordinated to the Supreme Council of Crimea. And this work will be completed by us tonight,” Aksyonov told the regional parliament.

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/military-commanders-sworn-allegiance-crimea-497/

[dipsydoodle]

15. Medvedev dosen't need to worry about that.

The protesters had already made clear they won't tolerate any current politicians standing for election when they do have elections. As such the current new government will be short lived.

[cosmicone]

27. And if the Russian tanks come, really really short "lived." n/t

[dipsydoodle]

35. I don't actually believe Russia will move outside of Crimea.

Given the threat now of trade sanctions they're probably busying themselves pondering when to turn the gas off to Europe if and when sanctions are applied - would become illegal for Europe to buy their gas.

Buy some candles Poland and if you've got a German car on order be prepared to wait for it.

[cosmicone]

38. I don't think the West will do a damn thing if Russia

engages in a "surgical" venture in Kiev and reinstalls Yanukovytch.

I bet France and Germany have shivers up their spine thinking of another war with Russia and Obama won't risk it in an election year. If there are heavy losses, the democrats would lose the house AND the senate.

Russians can do a surgical intervention and be in-and-out in a week. They'll probably arrest all the Svobodas and many will get killed while resisting arrest. Problem solved.

[dipsydoodle]

44. Reinstalling Yanukovytch would serve no useful purpose.

Whilst I understand what happened the "opposition" do not seem to have thought this through in terms of likely subsequent events and neither do I believe that their population understand what they now facing regardless of Russia's intervention in Crimea.

Give it a year or two max and they will envy Greece.

[cosmicone]

49. Russia will reinstall Yanukovytch until the next elections

and Yanukovytch will ask Russia to maintain law and order.

Russia won't let Yanukovytch run in the next elections and will find a stronger and less kleptocratic puppet.

The West will be happy because they won't have to deploy a single soldier or fire a single bullet but even more importantly, they wont have to write a check! I bet Angela Merkel would rather have Russians kill half of Ukraine than write a check. The same goes for Tories.

[cprise]

93. The West loves to write checks w/ military spending strings attached

Which is how is usually goes with the IMF.

So I think you have it a bit backward there. Obama was probably desperately looking for a big foreing-policy score after all the other setbacks (TPP failing, Snowden and Russia harboring him, and the oft mentioned 'general loss of US influence' under Obama's watch).

They were probably expecting Russia to accept the coup, but continue to make reactive/worrisome statements. Its another embarrassment for Obama, though militaries everywhere are probably on cloud nine...

[geek tragedy]

98. you sound just like the Neocons except your detachment

from reality cuts in the opposite direction.

With them, it was how invading Iraq was the right thing to do and a huge victory for Bush, and here you are making the same case for Putin invading Ukraine.

[cprise]

99. That is the 'realpolitik' of the situation

And Iraq wasn't anywhere near Washington, D.C. anyway.

Sorry for pointing that out... In an ideal world Ukraine could stand on its own. But that's not the deal here at all... the opposition wanted to join NATO and Russia will not allow a country 60 miles from Moscow join NATO or otherwise armed by the largest military juggernaut in history.

You react very childishly to having geopolitical facts pointed out. If you continue trying to denounce me (like a neocon yourself) instead to debating with facts, I'll take it up with the mods.

[geek tragedy]

48. Russia could do that, and the US and EU could squash Russia's economy like a grape.

Russia is not an economic superpower.

[cosmicone]

52. Russia is a top oil and NG supplier to Europe

Sanctions on Russia will hurt Germany badly and they won't go for it. Not to mention the deficit in total fossil fuels in the market would raise the price of gasoline in the US to $6 a gallon and the American people would revolt against it. Won't happen any time but ESPECIALLY in an election year.

[geek tragedy]

62. Putin's economy is 1/7th the size of ours. The Saudis are more than willing to sell oil.

Oil is fungible.

If Russia stopped selling oil, what would they eat?

[cosmicone]

75. The problem is that oil is a world-wide commodity.

It is like all the consumers are drinking with a straw from the same glass. If one party stops contributing to the glass, there is less for everyone.

Russia pumps 10.9 million barrels a day and Saudi Arabia pumps 9.9 million barrels a day. There is no way Saudis can make up the shortfall.

The main kicker though is NG which is piped from Russia to Europe. That supply is irreplaceable without a lot of time and draconian costs to build another pipeline etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

[amandabeech]

84. Yes, but over time, steps can be taken to decrease reliance on certain suppliers.

The US has done this from time to time, as have other countries.

Also, natural gas can be compressed and shipped by tanker. It takes time to build the facilities and the tankers, but it is being done and on quite a large scale. For example, Japan and South Korea get their natural gas in this fashion.

Russia certainly does have an advantage for the next few years, but I cannot imagine that the Europeans will not attempt to diversify their supplies as soon as possible if they are not doing so now.

This is not the first time that Russia has behaved unreliably, and I doubt that it will be the last.

Who wants to be manipulated in that way even if it ends up costing more money?

Of course, Russia can look for new markets, but it really has to sell that oil and gas or it will fall apart economically just as surely as Saudi Arabia would. I remember not that long ago when Brent was selling for less than $100 and Russia was having economic problems. Suppliers must have customers, after all.

[cosmicone]

85. I doubt anyone would want to diversify their supplies.

Europeans are really not that bothered by what happened and is happening in Ukraine.

It is all a CIA show probably done without consulting the EU. Remember "Fuck EU" said by one of the operatives to the US Ambassador and the cookies being distributed by the US Ambasador to the neonazi and fascist thugs masquerading as protesters?

I think the EU won't go beyond a strongly worded condemnation but they have no skin in this game and they certainly don't want a war on European soil.

Putin knows this and he has probably planned a quick in-and-out invasion with installation of his guy instead of the CIA's guy.

[amandabeech]

87. The Europeans I've met are a little more far-sighted than that.

And I'm sure that the new EU and NATO nations who were once part of the Soviet Union or Warsaw Pact will see things a little differently than those who are farther away.

I'm glad someone sees the CIA as being competent.

Personally, I've thought of them as something of a joke since the '80s. Their "intelligence" said that the Soviet Union had a much stronger economy than ours and could keep producing tanks and planes without any problems for years to come. Yeah. Right.

They really did a great job with those color and flower revolutions, too. Roses and tulips are still in bloom all over the place. And Ukraine is so orange.

[cprise]

94. China would give them almost anything they needed.

And India would probably come to their side, too.

US involvement in the coup practically guarantees it, IMHO.

OTOH, Russians might once again find it hard to purchase Hollywood shows and other bare-necessity exports from the US.

[geek tragedy]

95. India siding with Russia in a trade war against the EU and US? Delusional.

Ditto on China.

[cprise]

96. Delusion is expecting them to support further instability and NATO incursions

on their border states.

Besides, US and EU are waning as consumer powerhouses and you seem to have forgotten who the producers are.

Anyway, the idea the US would get the UN to approve widespread sanctions against Russia because it thinks Ukraine should belong to the IMF and NATO is ludicrous.

India and the US took on a trade-war stance all on their own in recent months (another Obama embarrassment), in addition to rising trade tensions with China.

Even so, its not so much that India and China would side with X or Y in a trade war. Its that the US doesn't have the influence to start such a trade war against a country like Russia. The US could go unilateral against Russia, but Russia already has plenty of grain and weapons.

[geek tragedy]

97. your loyalty to Putin and Mother Russia is quite touching, but

your anti-American and anti-EU fantasies notsomuch

[cprise]

100. Now who is the neocon?

American triumphalism died in 2008 along with Bush-ism, though you seem to be trying to revive it.

Its also interesting you think America is central to these developments.

Stop trying to insulate yourself from the reality out there. Just as with South Ossetia and Georgia, neither we nor the EU call the shots in that neighborhood.

[Deep North]

108. We?

Oh...we...meaning Russia "call the shots..."

[another_liberal]

28. Good point.

I also imagine people like the Svoboda party members must already be quite angry that an official declaration of war hasn't be issued against Russia. Things are surely moving too slowly for that bunch.

[cosmicone]

36. These are the people whose forefathers supported Hitler

and they should have been killed in 1945 so we won't have this problem today. Russians are probably lamenting it now.

[another_liberal]

45. They certainly don't strike me as a group worthy of U. S. support.

I know a bunch of our bankers, and "vulture capitalists" like Mitt Romney's Baine Capital, want to get into Ukraine and start stripping the place bare of anything worth a buck, but as a nation haven't we already done enough for that crowd?

[Deep North]

109. Our bankers?

...You went too far...dude. You try to sound like an American, but the platitudes to a stereotype are BS.

[another_liberal]

110. My family has lived in the United States . . .

Oh I'm as American as it gets, hotshot, don't doubt it for a second. My family has lived in the United States since before it was even called the United States. I am a citizen of this country, with full rights and privileges. I have been since birth.

You seem to be one of those people who think there are only a few types of Americans, and that all of them share the same beliefs and understand the World in basically the same way. You seem to be one of those people, but let me be the first to tell you, what those people think is completely wrong.

[bossy22]

66. facebook is the new UN

[Tommy_Carcetti]

103. He then posted the results of his latest Buzzfeed Quiz, "What amusement park are you?"

He was Virginia's Kings Dominion, by the way.

[marshall]

105. Diplomacy via Facebook?

It's the new world!