Crimea Referendum Moved Forward to March 16 – RIA

[steve2470]

Source: Wall Street Journal

*Crimea to Vote on Joining Russian Federation, Regional Deputy PM Says – RIA

Read more: http://on.wsj.com/MPPngc

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no other sources besides Ria Novosti yet, will keep looking

[steve2470]

1. also on AFP official twitter feed now

#BREAKING Crimea to hold referendum on joining Russia on March 16: official

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/441513601430745089

[steve2470]

2. also on Guardian

Crimea’s vice premier, Rustam Temirgaliev - who incidentally is of Crimean Tatar descent - said today Crimea will hold a referendum on 16 March on whether the region should stay with Ukraine or join Russia, Reuters reported the Russia’s RIA news agency as saying.

According to RIA, the referendum will ask whether voters want Crimea to become part of the Russian Federation or remain in Ukraine under the country’s post-independence 1992 constitution.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/ukraine-crisis-russia-crimea-eu-un-live

[steve2470]

3. Crimean Parliament votes to become part of Russia

This has just popped up on Reuters - and it comes from the Russian news agency RIA: Crimean parliament votes unanimously to become part of Russia. AFP is reporting that Crimean officials have asked Putin to examine their request to join Russia.

http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/Ukraine_liveblog/108414694

[joshcryer]

4. Constitutionally illegal.

Only the All-Ukraine referendum can change territorial status.

[steve2470]

5. yep

I was pretty shocked to read all this.

[dipsydoodle]

6. Its possible they didn't consider the necessity in the past

to have written such specific wording in their constitution.

[joshcryer]

8. Article 73 has existed since 1996.

It is not too surprising that a constitution have a mechanism to deal with territory. A referendum by all people is pretty normal. In the US adding a new state requires consent of 2/3rds of the states, iirc.

[Angleae]

10. It only takes majority vote of congress to admit a state.

Unless said territory is currently part of another state then it takes consent of the current state legislature(s) in addition to congress.

[joshcryer]

11. Ahh, my bad, I clearly confused with US constitutional amendments.

And even that's not entirely correct. My bad.

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Press conference due in 5 minutes time

Reports are saying that the referendum is now going ot be on 16 March (next Sunday), instead of 30 March, which had already been moved forward from 25 May. The question now will apparently be whether people want Crimea to join Russia, whereas before it was only due to be about autonomy.

The parliament has also voted on joining Russia, with 78 of 81 deputies in favour. It is unclear how this works alongside the referendum. Some of Crimea’s leaders are due to give a press conference at 11am GMT so we should get some answers then.

Also unclear is what Russia’s answer will be to a referendum vote - is Moscow now pushing ahead for full annexation or is this a plot to make some eventual de facto independent state solution look like a compromise?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/ukraine-crisis-russia-crimea-eu-un-live#block-53184d07e4b0c8d9ae9a5577

[joshcryer]

9. They already had autonomy. Joining Russia?

I've seen some polls suggesting they wouldn't do that. Odd. Very odd.

Is Putin giving himself an out?

Crimea votes against joining Russia, then he can pull back and say that the people have spoken, etc.

[davidpdx]

12. Was this the one you saw?

Just for shits and giggles I thought I'd throw it out there:

http://theweek.com/article/index/257330/speedreads-a-majority-of-crimeans-are-against-union-with-russia

Just 41 percent of Crimeans in the poll taken between February 8 and 18 wanted to become part of Russia.

In the Donetsk region, just 33 percent supported joining Russia. The numbers are even smaller in other parts of the country. In Ukraine as a whole, only 13 percent said they wanted unification with Putin's Russia.

I think the 41% may be close enough with a push by Putin it will pass. The eastern region seems quite low.

[joshcryer]

14. Note: 41% while some 58% are ethnic Russian.

If the sentiment expressed by native Russians is any indication, it's possible the figure is lower or will be in 10 short days.

[davidpdx]

21. Ah, I didn't catch that

Yeah that is way too low. Putin would have to find a way to throw the election. Maybe Karl Rove is available.

[Adrahil]

22. This was, of course, Putin's play since the invasion.

Initially he expected less political resistance, I think. With his position weakening somewhat over the last few days, I think he decided to rip the bandage off and get it over with. No one will buy his sham election, of course, but it was all just political theater anyway, might as well get it over with.

[another_liberal]

13. This from RT News.

Crimean parliament votes to join Russia, hold referendum in 10 days on ratifying.



A referendum on the status of Crimea will be held March 16, the region’s deputy prime minister announced. Crimeans will be asked to decide if the autonomous republic stays part of Ukraine or joins Russia. "The referendum will take place March 16," said the autonomous region’s First Deputy-Premier Rustam Temirgaliev, according to ITAR-TASS.

The new date is two weeks earlier than the one announced last week. There will be two questions on the ballots. “The first one: Are you in favor of Crimea becoming a constituent territory of the Russian Federation. The second one: Are you in favor of restoring Crimea’s 1992 constitution,” Temirgaliev said.

According to the 1992 constitution, the autonomous republic is part of Ukraine but has relations with Kiev, defined on the basis of mutual agreements. Sevastopol residents will take part in the referendum, despite the city enjoying a special status and not officially being a part of Crimea, according to Sergey Shuvainikov, a Crimean MP. “We will give Sevastopol an opportunity to have its say,” he said, as cited by RIA Novosti. Meanwhile the Crimean MPs have unanimously voted for the region to become a part of Russia. "To become part of the Russian Federation as its constituent territory,” says the text of the Crimean parliament’s statement, obtained by RIA Novosti.

When the decision was announced to the people outside the parliament building, they welcomed the news with cheers and screams of “Russia!”

(snip)

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/crimea-referendum-status-ukraine-154/

We in the West, and particularly in this country, are now going to reap what we have sown by bringing down the democratically elected government in Kiev. How many more eastern regions will now also want to break away from Ukraine is yet to be seen. War Hawks can rest assured, their hopes of getting a major new war started are looking much better over the next few months.

[RobertEarl]

16. Who?

Who will be in this war of your prophesy?

[another_liberal]

17. No one.

Not if enough of us insist it never start.

We do, however, have to act now. Raise our voices our voices in opposition, or at least do something.

[RobertEarl]

18. Again, Who?

If enough of us don't resist and it starts, who will be at war? You clearly state they could be a war, who are you thinking will be in the war?

[another_liberal]

19. Don't be intentionally obtuse (you have a perfectly good idea who would be involved).

At times like this, though, it is important to be optimistic. We can, and must, stop such a conflagration from ever beginning.

[Gore1FL]

27. Russia and Ukraine?

The U.S. getting involved with troops is pretty unlikely.

Like RobertEarl, I'm interested in "who." That's not being obtuse. I really want to know who you envision going to war and, perhaps, why.

[another_liberal]

28. Wars don't usually start because of sober calculations and reasoned assessments of risks . . .

They far more often start when tensions reach a point at which the slightest misstep by either side can set in motion a series of events that it's impossible to stop. I fear that kind of thing happening to our country, yes, I fear it very much. Any other American who is not a certifiable madman should fear it as well.

[Gore1FL]

29. I can't see us getting involved

We are not bound by treaty to the Ukraine. We have little strategic interest. I suspect if something were to break out, we'd offer intelligence--maybe some cash, too.

If we go to a hot war, it won't be over Crimea.

[blackspade]

32. You are the one being intentially obtuse.

What is the scenario that you envision war coming out of?
Who are the players and why?

[pampango]

24. Things have sure changed quickly since Tuesday. Now it is about becoming part of Russia.

I think the Crimean referendum is to be for or against independence . . .

I've heard nothing about it's being about a union with Russia.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024574456#post20

Yes, there will be many influences at play . . .

The most important thing is that the vote be free and fair (a secret ballot is essential).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024574456#post24

I too hope that it will be a free, fair and secret ballot. If folks are genuinely interested in the wishes of the Crimean people, why move the date of the referendum up from the original May 25 to March 30 and then again to March 16?

I have not ever heard of an important referendum that only gives both sides 10 days to prepare and promote their side and occurs within 3 weeks of the onset of the invasion/military maneuvers in the area that is voting. On the surface this rushed referendum seems to be more of a PR maneuver designed to influence diplomatic negotiations rather than a genuine effort to determine the wishes of the people.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Crimean vice premier declares Crimea is part of Russia from today

Shaun Walker has just been at a press conference by Rustam Temirgaliev, the Crimean vice premier who first gave news of the imminent referendum on union with Russia, and it seems the Crimean government is taking an even tougher line than expected.

The 16 March referendum is being held, Temirgaliev said, purely to ratify the decision of the Crimean parliament to join the Russian Federation, and the parliament has appealed to Russia to assist with this. He said that Crimea was effectively Russian immediately:

From today, as Crimea is part of the Russian Federation the only legal forces here are troops of the Russian Federation, and any troops of the third country will be considered to be armed groups with all the associated consequences.

The assumption is, Shaun adds, that this is being done with the full approval, even encouragement, of Russia, though it remains to be seen in Putin might use this to show his supposed moderation by refusing to act as decisively as the Crimean MPs wish.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/ukraine-crisis-russia-crimea-eu-un-live#block-53185a0be4b0c8d9ae9a5585

[Tommy_Carcetti]

20. While Russian boots are still on the ground?*

*Acknowledged by everyone but Russia.

Without the joint participation of both the Ukrainian national and Crimean regional governments?

Despite the fact that a recognized vote on Crimean autonomy had already been scheduled?

No, Russia had absolutely no hand in any of this at all.

[Adrahil]

23. Why do you hate democracy!!???

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. Taking all Ukrainian state enterprises

A snippet I neglected to mention from the press conference by Crimean vice premier Rustam Temirgaliev, passed to me by Shaun Walker: Temirgaliev said his government has a team of experts working on how Crimea can adopt the ruble as its currency.

On the same subject, Russia’s Interfax news agency, via Reuters, quotes Temirgaliev as saying Crimea plans to nationalise Ukrainian state property:

All Ukrainian state enterprises will be nationalised and become the property of the Crimean autonomy.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/ukraine-crisis-russia-crimea-eu-un-live#block-531866bce4b06f4e7db99a41

[levp]

26. Seems

totally legit...

[blackspade]

30. Good luck with that.

Crimea has no land access to Russia.
All of its power, other utilities, and transportation go through Ukraine.

The result will also depend on how much pressure the Russians put on the Crimeans.
It's also unlikely that the Tartars, who were largely cleansed by the Russians will side with the separatists.

[bemildred]

31. They just started working on a bridge.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-expedites-plan-for-13bln-bridge-to-crimea/495721.html

[blackspade]

33. Which will be finished when?

A bridge does not bring power, water, or gas to Crimea.
As a symbolic connection, I get it, but from a practical standpoint the rest of Ukraine could just close the border.
That would be the true test of the Russian connection.