Norway will cut through an island in tribute to massacre victims
Source: The Verge
How do you adequately craft a memorial for one of the worst days in a country's modern history? That's the question that was posed to architects and artists as part of a competition for a dual-site memorial commemorating the attacks in Norway on July 22nd, 2011. On that day, 77 people were killed, eight by an Oslo car bomb and 69 in a massacre at a youth event on the island of Utøya. After holding an open competition, Norway has decided to install a pair of memorials designed by Swedish artist Jonas Dahlberg to pay tribute to those who lost their lives in the attacks.
As Bustler reports, Dahlberg's proposal for an Utøya memorial is at once simple and striking. An 11-foot (3.5 meter) cut will be made in the nearby headland at Tyrifjorden, forever separating it from the mainland with the water that now surrounds it. This cut represents the loss of life caused by the attack by literally removing a chunk of the country's land and figuratively carving an unhealable wound into its landscape.
Visitors to the memorial, which is titled Memory Wound, will by guided down a pathway through the island's forest into a tunnel that leads to the wound. The tunnel ends abruptly at the cut, where visitors will be able to see to the other side. Opposite this viewing window will be the names of all those who lost their lives on July 22nd. "The names will be close enough to see and read clearly," explains Dahlberg, "yet ultimately out of reach. This cut is an acknowledgement of what is forever irreplaceable."
The earth, plants, and trees removed through excavating the cut will be transferred to Oslo, where it will act as the foundation for the city's memorial. The Oslo tribute comprises a contemplative path situated alongside an existing busy walkway. The memorial will take visitors off their regular path but ultimately lead them in the right direction. It speaks to the massive impact the attacks had on the everyday lives of Norwegians, but concludes that although we should take time to remember what happened, life must carry on.
Read more: http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/3/6/5476944/norway-will-cut-through-an-island-in-tribute-to-massacre-victims
If America had the balls to do this at our gun culture massacre sites, our country would be crisscrossed with 'wounds.'
The memorial itself is jarring. Don't think I would do that to an island. But we are used to mass gun shootings. Europe, not so much, so the jarring wound may be simply how they view it.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's vulgar.
Among all creation, humans are a monumental embarrassment in the way we treat one another and in the way we treat our planet.
This "memorial" is offensive. Why should the island, trees, animals, etc., there have to take a hit for this stupid ass memorial?
"Memory Wound"?
Good grief.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)Lots of fun, seeing a Gun Enthusiast get pissed about "the way we treat one another." For your response alone, this monument is a triumph.....
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Just dropped in to post an insult, did we?
What's next on your to-do list today?
Does it have to do with insects and their wings?
Paladin
(28,243 posts)frwrfpos
(517 posts)?
Paladin
(28,243 posts)Just because you own firearms doesn't mean you can't be a liberal, support the vigorous control of firearms, distance yourself as far as possible from the right wing monstrosity that the present-day gun rights movement has become, and support a meaningful, lasting tribute to the victims of violence involving firearms. And yeah, I'm good with police and military having guns, as long as effective civilian control is in place.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)'Zactly.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)I really like it. transplanted portions and such. I'll have to google earth it to maybe understand some of your points down thread.
These children should be memorialized though, right?
On edit: I could, you know, click the link.
It's pretty amazing
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's a thoughtful design, if a little derivative of our own Viet Nam memorial in DC.
The part I don't get is the brutal slice through the island, it's very severe and it's going to take a hell of a lot of petroleum fueled equipment to make that happen, and the water will be fouled and the pristine little island will never be the same.
It just doesn't make sense to me, to do that to the island, it's just too severe.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)And this memorial has to be singular in the world. At least, I suspect it is.
Nearly 70 children is that manner is a singular event as well. It deserves something like no other. And that's the price we will pay for them. (The Norwegians anyway)
Usually things like these get scaled back a little anyway. Look at the towers.
Plus, I don't think too many folks weighed the impact of razing the Newtown school.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)The Vietnam Veterans Memorial also cuts into the earth--and Maya Lin described it as "a wound in the earth."
Paladin
(28,243 posts).....the major league shitstorm raised by some right-wing legislators over the Vietnam Memorial, because it was designed by an architect of Oriental heritage? Land Of The Free, Home Of The Brave........
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)There were a lot of ugly attacks that hurt Maya Lin deeply. She somehow managed to weather it all and went on to create other brilliant designs like the Civil Rights Memorial in Montgomery, Alabama.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I saw many thousands of visitors during that time, and I can't tell you how many times I had people tell me that they were adamantly opposed to the design at first, but they later completely changed their minds and supported it 100%.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Many of those who opposed the design feared that the public wouldn't like it and it would be a failure.
But it was seeing the reactions of vets at the dedication, and their grief and loss, that began to change opinions in a big way.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Having worked in underground construction before going back to school for a degree in architecture, I've seen a number of large projects.
What's more, along the coast here in California one sees a lot of retaining wall projects.
This slice through a 26 acre island, already a daunting task as it's not connected to the mainland, essentially requires that the cut be made, the soil prevented from collapsing during excavation, and then two retaining walls be poured and these would have to have tiebacks going several meters back into the undisturbed soil behind them.
Imagine the amount of mess and mud and crap going into the water, all the noise and fossil fuel that needs to be used.
I wish they'd come up with something more feasible and less disruptive.
valerief
(53,235 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Kind of like The Wall.
valerief
(53,235 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)As are all memorials... at least the ones which may offend our personal biases.
valerief
(53,235 posts)NV Whino
(20,886 posts)Particularly earth surrounded by water.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's very easy to draw pretty pictures, to photoshop a slice out of a landscape.
I don't think the designer knows shit about construction and they sure don't care about the impact that such a project would have on the local ecosystem.
It's a joke, or worse, it's a crime.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Richardo
(38,391 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the memorial is now too derivative for your tastes?
what's with you and anything related to guns? why are you losing it over something like this --and on other things related to guns and shootings, you've lost your grip those time as well.
why?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's a horrid idea to do that to the island. You and the others who want to tie my dislike of the thing to the gun aspect is just silly (to be kind).
Nihil
(13,508 posts)No, the crime was committed by the fascist gun-nut and the crime was mass murder.
The crime was committed against 77 innocent victims.
A memorial like this is neither "a joke" nor "a crime" - it is a measure of the respect
and sadness that most sane people feel as a result of such a crime.
Some outspoken 2nd amendment freak doesn't get to rant about the memorials of
other nations or the extent to which civilised people abhor such pointless deaths.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I just wonder if there is a way to create a "symbolic" cut rather than a literal one....
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)If the Norwegians like it, that's good enough for me.
IthinkThereforeIAM
(3,075 posts)... eom.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)FWIW, I like the symbolism very much as well.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)If the Norwegians like it, that should be good enough.
mopinko
(69,990 posts)called earthworks.
art, by it's very nature, is arrogant.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)You know my background and among artists I think architects, at least many of them, are the most arrogant of the lot with enormous schemes that are their "personal statement".
I like the design, I like the project proposal.
I like it best on paper.
Knowing construction projects the way I do, and having a deep respect for things like sea critters, all I can see is the mud and destruction and diesel fumes that will have to go into such a project.
All to make, in the end, a personal statement.
It's not worth it-- there are far better and more environmentally friendly ways to honor the lives lost and make a statement about the madness that took place.
mopinko
(69,990 posts)it is about truth. this is brutally honest. people tend to recoil from that sort of honesty, especially about something that is so horrendous. understandable. but such an honest representation will result in much quiet confrontation. confrontation of evil.
it is a personal statement. but it is the sort of deeply honest personal statement that touches many persons.
we must confront evil.
and yeah, architects. but come on. you have been to chicago. it is the best of what humans can do. celebrate that.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I don't think that "abomination" is too harsh a term for the amount of energy and disruption that it will take to create this "monument".
There must have been a better, less destructive, proposal.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)FreeState
(10,570 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Thats OK, no impact right?
FSogol
(45,446 posts)Nihil
(13,508 posts)If the island already has "little critters" then they are all capable of managing
the new change to their environment. Nature views a gap with water at the bottom as
an inconvenience, not an insurmountable obstacle (as a road cutting complete with
fast moving traffic would be, for example).
Can I remind you that the OP clearly states that the memorial is "an 11-foot (3.5 meter) cut"?
They're not talking about planting a field of corn in the middle of the forest or of creating
a bottomless chasm where no creature dare venture ...
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Are sliced at impact areas.
--
That's what makes it so beautifully jarring and harmoniously detached at the same time.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)As an American I should be able to dictate how other countries mourn tragedies!
After all, it's easier than worrying about all the ecological damage my own country does.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)FreeState
(10,570 posts)PumpkinAle
(1,210 posts)and to then transplant the trees, etc. to Oslo is a wonderful idea.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)PumpkinAle
I think the nature, the trees and the rest wil survive rather well at Utøya even with the cut true the bedrock thank you - It is not excactly a cut true the middle of Utøya we are talking about here - but rather a tip of the iceland....
Diclotican
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)onehandle
Do you at all know where Utøya is to begin with - it is not exactly an Iceland in the sun for most of the year - rather rugged and hard - formed by a long goon glacier who molded the whole area 10.000 year ago....
And it is not exactly like it would cut true the middle of the iceland either - it Will cut a small tip of the iceland - who would survive find on its own when its all is finished and made proper - and as you point out yourself - the land who would be going will be used to make a memorial site in Oslo City - as an tribute to what happened that day 3 years ago...
And it is also about symbolic - maybe not to easy to understand for others who are not into the symbolic thing about it all - but I think the memorial at Utøya would be a tastefully symbol for what happened at Utøya, when it all is finished and the plants have grown up again... It will have a "Norwegian" look to it... It will not scream to the world I'm a symbol - but rather be a symbol for centuries to come...
Other country's have large crosses - and other symbols to mark horrible things who have been happening in the past - Norway to so many - but we do understand the symbols of it all - what a cut in a tip of an iceland really means....
And I guess, few if any of the ones who blow a few fuses here on DU about it, Will never seeing it in real life anyway - so I have problems understanding the fuzz they make about it...
Diclotican
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)They get all worked up about things happening in countries that they will probably never see, while turning a blind eye to whats going on in their own backyard. If Norway doesn't honor their dead in a way that they see fit, then they will complain. Pretty fucked up, not to mention a bit narcissistic.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)ForgoTheConsequence
I guess it is a hobby for some - to be outraged about something, who happened at the other side of the planet - or at least on the other side of the Atlantic.... And I also think the US do have a few things to worry about back home - rather than go overboard because some in Norway want to cut true a tip of a iceland a place where few americans will ever venture to anyway - most of them will properly not even travel to Oslo the capital of Norway at all....
I think it is a symbolic gesture - to do that in a place who was place for so much violence - and so much bloodshed - and it use the nature in a way not many was thinking about first... I like it personally... It not something momently and grand - but rather a whisper about what happened tree years ago...
Diclotican
flying rabbit
(4,628 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)Rowdyboy
(22,057 posts)as I'm sure it was meant to be.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)I don't think the murders grab us deeply as this does Norway. We get inundated with violence via images and other outlets nearly everywhere, and we are running around the world killing bad folks but also murdering lots of innocents along the way on a nearly daily basis. Perhaps with all the self-justification that requires after a time our outrage indicator gets a little worn, maybe we get a little less human. More importantly, perhaps, that may also be what causes us to forget that we need to invest, replant what we got rid of, as they did in Oslo.
What a contrast.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)jtuck004
It was the worst crime/murder case in Norway for more than 70 year - even the germans when they occupied Norway in 1940-45 was not that violent - and germans could be violent back in the days....
For the most part, Norway is a peacefully country - who until a few years ago - was not even used to gun violence at all... And still is a safe place to live - with not much gun violence at all... Even if many in norway do have guns - who they for the most part use in the hunting season, but who is seldom used outside of that... And the gun law in Norway is one of the strictest in the world.l.... And we do not have any 2 amendment as in the US.. No right to bear arms over here - in fact it is a privilege you have to deserve to be able to have aces to at all...
Diclotican
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)It's a moving tribute to a horrible tragedy, and the damage to the environment is probably less than the damage that is incurred when someone builds a house in the woods.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)> The tunnel ends abruptly at the cut, where visitors will be able to see to the other side.
> Opposite this viewing window will be the names of all those who lost their lives on July 22nd.
> "The names will be close enough to see and read clearly yet ultimately out of reach."
Excellent concept.
> The earth, plants, and trees removed through excavating the cut will be transferred to Oslo,
> where it will act as the foundation for the city's memorial.
Again, excellent approach to ensure that the activity on the island is not merely creating
waste to be dumped somewhere out of sight but is rather being used for a double purpose:
not only transplanting the loss of the island into the city but avoiding the additional mining
and transport for the foundation that would otherwise have been required.
Full marks to Dahlberg (the artist) and the judges on that panel.
FSogol
(45,446 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Why all this hoo-hah over some other county's design for a memorial? Is this just how DU rolls these days?
Paladin
(28,243 posts)The fact that guns are involved explains everything.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)> If this monument was dedicated to the victims of an air crash, this thread wouldn't exist.
The thread would still exist but there would be no angry disruptors opening it ...
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Utter bullshit and typical of them.
It's an eyesore. I don't care that guns were involved, a fertilizer bomb was used, too.
This is just a bad design, interesting conceptually but practically impossible to build (slice through a 26 acre island, two tall retaining walls, and not even in a place connected to the mainland.
Just go ahead and drop a nuke on it, that'll be a wound.
Wounding the landscape to commemorate the loss, it just seems unfair to the landscape.
The memorial in Oslo makes sense, however. It's already an urban setting.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)except anything reasons related to guns...
one can't help but wonder.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)"Cutting through" Utoya seems like adding insult to injury. The island will now become a 24/7 international massacre memorial. That's fine, but it's hard not to see ulterior motives at work. To me a better memorial would be to leave the summer camp alone and put the tourist destination in Oslo.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)From another source:
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/mar/06/norway-massacre-memorial-jonas-dahlberg-anders-behring-breivik
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I didn't realize from the first link that it wasn't to be built on the island itself, and it appears that the peninsula section might not be nearly as wide as the island.
This means that there should be significantly less disruption and as it's part of the mainland might be something that more people can visit without taking a boat.
Still, the engineering involved to install dead vertical retaining walls is significant, but far less intensive than a slice through a 26 acre island might have been.
Odd how everybody wants to jump my ass for having an opinion about this, FFS.
I should have Jerry the Tapir pay a visit.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I had to check because the OP source referred to both the island and the headland as the site, and it could only be one or the other.
But PLEASE DON'T SIC JERRY ON ME!!!
There certainly will be others like you who don't like it, especially when you're dealing with an abstract design. Some of Maya Lin's critics favored some of the rejected designs that were more representational--like a statue of a tank, or of a helmet. Luckily, her brilliant design carried the day (though there were compromise additions of a flagpole and a representational statue off to the side).
There may be more information available about the engineering that went into the Memory Wound proposal, but translations may not be immediately available and in any case you'd have to do some searching to learn the details.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And I remember the controversy, and I remember how impressed I was seeing it for the first time.
The memorial, I'm guessing you've seen it, is actually quite understated given its scale. It's basically below grade and quite unassuming, and this adds to the drama, I think.
This is quite the opposite effect, for me, from the design for Norway at the peninsula; it's severe, not subtle, and what I can't reconcile in this age of climate change concerns (which were less well understood when the Vietnam RFP went out) is the severity on the landscape of the design. It's as though the artist is saying, "our people were murdered, therefore I shall murder some piece of the pristine Norwegian landscape nearby, aren't I brilliant?"
I think it's the opposite of what is the right thing to do, that it just multiplies the carnage.
Of course some on the board think that human statements trump respect for natural environments, and that's OK. I'm not going to call them names or anything.
Just maybe a late night visit from our five-legged friend!
Hope you're having a great year!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I guess that's some consolation but it doesn't seem like protecting the summer camp was a real priority. If they'd wanted to, they could have found a way, but it would have taken special consideration. It's difficult to imagine how it will carry on now but I suppose it was inevitable. Anyway the photoshops are deceiving because there's no way this won't become a major tourist destination with all that entails. That seems to have been the chief consideration in choosing this particular design.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)And it has so much meaning to the local people. I like it, lots. And soon enough tour companies from the tourist ships will bring folk here. I would like to see it, but not in a group. It seems to be a more meditative, personal kind of experience. Good job, Norway!
fujiyama
(15,185 posts)It's probably similar to how we felt after 9/11, but being such a small country, it's probably more similar to living in Manhattan around that time.
However beautiful the proposed memorial looks, I question the cost. I'm not sure if such a memorial makes sense. An earth moving project is a huge undertaking and has environmental and ecological costs as well.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)But you know what, nature has a way of adapting to this stuff. I highly doubt that any actual extinctions will result from this memorial, which I find quite to be quite moving.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It is and should be a wound that doesn't heal and it should never become so normalized -as in the US- as to elicit a 'ho hum" response.