Stolen passports on missing Malaysian passenger jet

[brooklynite]

Source: Irish Times

Two names listed on the manifest of the missing Malaysian Airlines flight match passports reported stolen in Thailand, foreign ministry officials in Rome and Vienna have confirmed.

...snip...

Italy’s foreign ministry said today that an Italian man whose name was listed as being on board the Boeing 777 is travelling in Thailand and was not on the plane. A foreign ministry official confirmed Italian reports that an Italian national had reported his passport stolen last August.

Italian news agency Ansa said he called home after hearing reports that an Italian with his name was on board the missing aircraft.

Austrian foreign ministry spokesman confirmed that a name listed on the manifest matches an Austrian passport reported stolen two years ago in Thailand but he would not confirm the identity.

Read more: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/stolen-passports-on-missing-malaysian-passenger-jet-1.1717931

[JimDandy]

1. Karma? No one deserves to die but... n/t

[Abukhatar]

4. karma? context please

Curious about your karma comment

[JimDandy]

6. Stealing someone else's passport

and using it to board a doomed plane... unless I misunderstood the reporting.

Eta: Yup, the obvious implication, that the persons with the stolen passports caused the disaster, went right over my head.

Eta2: BBC is reporting that surveillance cameras captured images of the passengers with the two stolen passports, that they purchased their tickets at the same airline counter, and that the tickets had consecutive numbers.

[MADem]

53. Alternatively, the people with the stolen passports could be stooges.

Here's your faked passport, I will give it to you at a discount if you just take this package to my uncle for me....

[JimDandy]

55. True,

but less likely, because the passports were stolen separately, many months apart from travelers of different nationalities.

[Cleita]

5. Or maybe, if they turn out to be terrorists, that was the plan. n/t

[JimDandy]

7. Ah!

That wooshing sound was the missing connection flying right over my head.

[barbtries]

8. i think if it was a terrorist act,

there would have been communications to that effect prior to the plane going down?

[Cleita]

12. A lot of what goes on after these airline crashes is not disclosed

immediately to the public, so we don't know. It could be that there was a target in mind if they hijacked the airplane, but the passengers took them down and the airplane crashed in the ocean instead. So many scenarios and so little information.

[question everything]

26. Right. There was an Egyptian Air that crashed in 1999 on a flight form California

and there were reports that as the plane was diving, the captain said Allah Akbar (God is Great, in Arabic).

After the 9/11 attacks, all of a sudden this made sense.

But no one ever claimed responsibility for this.

[MRadtke]

60. Wikipedia has an interesting article about that flight:

Wikipedia article about flight 990:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

[question everything]

84. Interesting. Thanks for the link

I obviously did not remember all the details, only the general information and I remembered how, after 9/11 we thought - aha.

[EX500rider]

75. Actually the cockpit voice recorder picked up him saying ""Tawkalt ala Allah",which translates as

"I rely on God." Which he repeated 7 times till he flew the plane into the ocean.

[question everything]

79. Thanks. Did not remember the specifics only the general description

and how, after 9/11, it made more sense.

[Gore1FL]

2. I wonder if the people travelling under the false identities had anything to do with the loss

I suppose it would provide a way to get past a no-fly list.

It also makes me wonder how many stolen passports are typically on such flights. For all I know, 2 might be average.

[CJCRANE]

3. It also indicates other countries may not have accurate no-fly lists

or false or stolen passports may not be on the lists.

There always seem to be loopholes.

[flamingdem]

13. To me this is the important take-away, why were they allowed

to fly on stolen passports?

They should have been invalidated.

[FBaggins]

16. They probably only realized that they were stolen after the fact

Likely when they tried to contact the familes of the people onboard. Some mother said "he can't be dead... he just ordered seconds of my pot roast!" (or whatever the Malaysian equivelent is)

On edit - My mistake. Reportedly at least one of them was reported missing in August.

[whopis01]

45. And probably more italian or Austrian sounding than Malaysian... n/t

[jsr]

9. Very interesting indeed.

[AngryAmish]

10. This does not look good.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

11. Cue X-Files music.

[Cleita]

18. I think more "Twilight Zone".

Wasn't there an episode where a passenger plane disappears without a trace, but was actually transported back in time to one of the dinosaur ages?

[hrmjustin]

14. Could just be a coincidence.

[totodeinhere]

21. Or maybe not. n/t

[MADem]

15. Uh OH....we've gone awhile without the absurd overreaches at the gate by TSA.

If this is terrorism, we'll be back to the "gate rape" days again in no time.

If the plane is missing, perhaps the passengers fought back...?

[FBaggins]

17. Yeah... and I leave for Italy next weekend.

Probably need to plan on an extra hour or two for security and sacrifice my best nail clippers.

[MADem]

19. Leave the nail clippers at home unless you have a checked bag.

Bring as little as possible in the carry on--maybe a pair of drawers and a change of clothes, and keep the liquids in the plastic zip lock bag to a minimum, if at all. Tablets are easier than laptops--laptops have to be taken out and get inspected, tablets can just go through. Don't forget socks on your feet (because people do have athlete's foot) and slip on shoes, because the shoes are coming off if you're under seventy five!

I always wear stuff that has no metal, nothing to set off any detectors. During the Bush years, I either sent stuff ahead via a parcel service, or checked everything.

Enjoy Italy, even with the issues they're having with us lately. The food is to die for, really!

[christx30]

20. I have some awesome

boots with zip up sides. Takes me 15 seconds to put them on.
But, yes to everything you said. There are ways to streamline your trip through security.

[Beacool]

61. One of my friends almost missed her plane once.

Her underwire bra kept setting off the machine. I made a personal note to self: no underwire bras when flying. LOL!!!

[MADem]

63. Poor thing--that must have been annoying!

Nothing like having strangers waving objects at a personal area of one's physique and having those noises go off so everyone LOOOOOKS!

Gaaah!

I hope this isn't a terrorist event...I just don't want to return to those suitcase tossing days.

[Beacool]

65. It got worse.

They took her aside and a woman patted down her boobies.

[MADem]

66. Oh good grief.

I've gotten the "full court press" myself--it's not fun. That's why I dress like one of those old mall walkers, in the sweat pants and hoodie and tee shirt--nothing to set off any alarms. I don't care if I look like a fashion victim, it beats getting the "gate rape" treatment (a term I learned from a flight crew--they can't stand it when they have to go through the full checks because that's a LOT of radiation over the course of a work year, but they don't particularly care for the fondling, either).

They have the ability to use electronic "noses" to sniff out illnesses--why can't they do the same thing with explosives? That will probably be the future, but I wish they'd hurry up and get to it...so long as the electronic nose doesn't jump on you like a retriever and burrow that nose where it doesn't belong....!!

[Beacool]

67. I know how you feel.

I travel several times throughout the year (both domestic and foreign). The whole thing is a major headache. We can thank the terrorists for the intrusions. I'm also not keen on turbulence. It didn't use to bother me much, now it does.

[dionysus]

74. next time Bea, take this on the plane with you.... turbulence, smurbulance!

[Beacool]

81. A yellow bear bankie!!!

You think I can surround myself with them when the plane starts to shake? It can get scary.




Thank you for the lovely bankie.

[dionysus]

82. it's a magic bankie, Bea, it will keep you safe.

[Beacool]

83. Thank you, my friend.

[CTyankee]

33. Hey, I'm leaving for Italy next week also...on Saturday...Alitalia from JFK to Rome

then connecting to Florence.

Where in Italy will you be going?

[FBaggins]

34. Sunday afternoon for us.

Flying in to Rome, but driving from there to San Gimignano with day trips to Pisa/Sienna/Assissi... then back to Rome to meet the rest of the family group for ten days (with day trips all over)... then a couple days each in Venice & Florence... and a Med cruise with a Naples stop before flying back the middle of next month.

Make sure you have an extra day of clothing in your carryon... Alitalia lost our bags on connecting flights more than once over the years but has always gotten it to us a day or so later.

[CTyankee]

36. This will be my 5th trip to Italy and I believe all but one was Alitalia...thank god no lost bags on

my flights.

Your trip sounds lovely! Mine is less ambitious...just Tuscany with a small group of art lovers on the Piero della Francesca Trail...based in Anghiari, going to San Sepulcro, Arezzo, Monterchi where Piero painted in the 15th century...all medieval towns. Not much tourism in that little part of eastern Tuscany...

[Beacool]

62. Your trip sounds lovely.

I'm jealous. Have a wonderful time.

[CTyankee]

68. thanks!

[pangaia]

78. Ah HA!!!

Now I know where you will be... All the time..
Eh he he he....
But you will never know if I am watching....
Eh he he....

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. a ground crash in 2012?

hidden structural problems?
North Korea shooting a really long missile?
Aliens leaving their Pacific underwater base, without checking the traffic overhead?

[MADem]

27. That was a fairly new a/c with a very good safety record.

There was no cockpit MAYDAY, either.

It's a curious situation. I feel for the families of those passengers; the news will likely not be good.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Feels like a trial run for use in the American market

I do have a bad feeling about this. Blown up over the ocean where clues will be hard to come by. Gate rape, the sequel, will be the result if the worst is true.

[MADem]

52. Fair point. I'm wondering if it was a stooge flying with a "just take this suitcase to my

dear old grandma" story, and the suitcase was made of/contained an explosive material.

Obviously the crew didn't even have time to shout Mayday--it was a catastrophic experience. Those poor people.

[davidpdx]

50. Never heard that term before, nor experienced anything close to that

I've flown back and forth between Korean and the US three times and have never had any problem. The lone exception was when I broke my ankle two weeks before flying to the US and had to wear a "boot". I actually volunteered to sit down and take it off and most of the time they didn't make me.

[MADem]

51. Lucky you!

I was on the "Fuck With This One" list during the entire Bush administration.

I fly often enough in a given year, and I never was able to fly after Nahn Wun Wun without getting the full court press. It was psychologically exhausting, it was deliberate, and it never--not even once--failed to happen. If I was flying, I was getting harassed. I'd use my retired military ID card as ID, that didn't make a difference. I was "on the list" and Fuck Me Very Much!

Shortly after Obama took office, I approached the ticket counter to get my ticket (because I could never print out a ticket or get one at a kiosk--that just wasn't "on" for me, so I stopped trying), prepared for the sidelong look, the "Unnnnnnh....wait just a minute...." and then the issuance of the "different" ticket with the huge letters/checkerboard/red coloring/other markings that indicated "CRIMINAL!! DANGEROUS!!! BAAAAD!!!" and was issued my "regular" ticket with ... no bullshit.

I stood there, shocked, for a moment. When you're in "gird your loins" mode and nothing happens, it can be stupefying!

I went through the first level of security, and got "Have a nice day." I thought I'd fallen through the looking glass! When I reached the "Stand By And Get Molested" area, I thought, "Oh, they'll get me here--this is probably just a 'lighter touch' by the new administration," and through I went, without a hitch. No one noticed me, pulled me aside, asked me questions...nothing!

Since then I've started travelling with a carry-on again (I stopped doing it because they'd toss the thing and leave my stuff all over the place, and I could never quickly pack it back properly). I fly more, too. I probably drove a couple of dozen times during the Bush regime when I otherwise would have flown, just because I hated the experience at the gate.

I don't know why I was put on the list (I have suspicions, but I don't "know&quot and I don't know why I was taken off, but I do know that it sucked when I was on it.

[uppityperson]

22. It is way too early to speculate on what and why. Let them find the plane first.

[louis-t]

23. Most likely stolen and sold.

I don't even wanna think about who they were sold to.

[amandabeech]

25. Last week, China suffered an orchestrated knife attack on a subway station in one of its cities.

China claims that the attack was committed by a group of Uiygers (sp), Muslims from western China that the Chinese government has been trying to minimize or wipe out similar to what it has been doing in Tibet.

I'm wondering if the knife attack and now the airplane crash are related.

[Redford]

28. You definitely might be on to something there.

I wonder if it is terrorism will the truth be told or will it be kept hush-hush to keep the terrorists from getting credit.

[brooklynite]

30. Muslim terrorists attacking a Muslim nation airline?

[Renew Deal]

32. Have you not seen what's been going on in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Lybia the last few years.

Religion has been no boundary for violence.

[hack89]

35. Muslims are the overwhelming victims of Muslim terrorism. nt

[amandabeech]

40. There were Muslims in the trade center,

and as other posters have pointed out, Muslims are victims of terrorist attacks throughout central Asia and the Middle East.

Religious crazies are, in fact, crazy, no matter which version of God they worship.

They give all decent, reasonable people of faith a bad name.

And I believe that many people of faith are decent and reasonable.

[blkmusclmachine]

43. "..I believe that many people of faith are decent and reasonable."

Unless these so-called "good Christians" are members of State Legislatures in AZ, ND, SD, TN, KY, PA, OR, WI, IL, MI, KS, OK, TX, MS, AL, GA, FL, NC, SC, OH, CA, UT, CO, MO, WY, ... trying to ram their phony "religious liberty" down on everybody with their heinous "Right to Discriminate" bills.

Some might want you to believe that Christians aren't all like that, but facts, history, and Christians' past misdeeds say otherwise...

[seveneyes]

48. "Christians past misdeeds say otherwise..."

If this airplane mishap turns out to be terrorism, I wonder what the odds are it was Christians performing the acts of terror?

What percentage of recent terrorist activities have been Christian?

[Agschmid]

31. I think it's a stretch to assume they are connected...

But it's a stretch at this point to assume anything.

[amandabeech]

41. You have to look at everything.

I'm not saying that this terrible incident was terrorism, but with the world what it is today, I don't think that it can be ruled out.

I look forward to hearing that this was a tragic equipment failure, rather than a terrorist attack.

[cosmicone]

37. Very few planes have suddenly disappeared at cruising altitude

Air India 182 from Montreal to Delhi via London was lost in the sky near the coast of Ireland. Cause? Bomb planted by Sikh terrorists. (June 23, 1985)

Pan Am 103 - a 747 from London to JFK was lost over Lockerbie, Scotland. Cause? Bomb planted by Libyan/Syrian agents. (December 21, 1988)

EgyptAir 990 from Los Angeles to NY to Cairo was lost over the Atlantic on October 31, 1999. Cause? Apparently a severely distressed and psychotic first officer purposely ditched the plane when the pilot left to use the restroom.

Air France 447 - An Airbus A340 was lost over the Atlantic on a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. Cause? Pilot error in the face of catastrophic weather. Distress signals were received.

On both AI182 and PA103 cockpit voice recorders, there was normal chatter followed by a sudden silence. The planes were blown up to bits in mid-air and no one could even react.

Since in this particular case, no distress signals were received at all, probability of it being a terrorist act is very high. Actually, I'd venture a guess that it is a terrorist act unless proven otherwise. The Sikh terrorists in the Air India case were trained by a certain intelligence agency of a terrorist country that tries to pretend it is civilized. The same agency's hand has been slapped by the Chinese a few times for providing help to the Uighurs (pronounced "weeger"s).

The days of stolen passports will be over now. Each passport will contain biometric data that will be mandatorily matched wherever the passport is presented to officials of any country.

[Cleita]

39. Back in the days when I had to fly a lot between here and South America

we flew over the ocean a lot instead of overland. Since I had a fear of drowning, I questioned the adults who made me do this. They told me that if we crashed it was safer to crash in water and that's why our seats were also flotation devices.



It seems I was lied to.

[cosmicone]

42. Crash "landing" is different from a "crash" in mid air

A random water landing is probably safer than landing on a non-runway but only if done skillfully at the right velocity with the right orientation of the plane, in generally calm water and with help nearby. The Sully Sullenberger landing in the Hudson was textbook and everyone survived. I doubt they would have survived landing over an ocean of there were 6' or more waves.

[Cleita]

44. You just made me think of something. I don't remember an oil

spill in the Sully/Hudson landing. If in fact that oil spill discovered off Vietnam was from the airline crash wouldn't that cast suspicion on a bomb going off in air before a crash?

[whopis01]

46. Water landings are not preferred to non-runway landings

No wide body aircraft has survived a water landing. 50 out 175 survived the flight 961 crash - but that's the only wide body water landing with survivors ever.

[cosmicone]

47. I meant

it is preferable with better odds than say landing on 5th Avenue or in Yosemite.

[MADem]

54. Very succinct summation and I agree w/your assessment....! nt

[Beacool]

64. I agree.

I think that unless they can prove a catastrophic mechanical failure, it more likely than not, was a terrorist attack.

Those poor people.

[jtuck004]

38. Just in U.S. ports alone we stop several thousand people with fraudulent passports every year,

I bet we don't stop all of them. And there are thousands of other places with varying security around the world.

It might seem more surprising if there wasn't one, and I suspect on a purely statistical basis that a couple probably pop up on international flights periodically.

Could be something else, but I don't see even a couple of people going up just so they can drop a plane unseen into the ocean without any marketing for their cause.

Could have been a bomb of course, but something shipped incorrectly that blew up (like oxygen in what should have been empty canisters that start a fire) could do this too.

[davidpdx]

49. It doesn't make sense for it to be terrorism

One would think if it was that those responsible for it would be wanting to claim a "victory" for their cause. Then again, I don't think it would be a good thing to piss off China.

[uppityperson]

56. Stolen passports used on Malaysia flight are common

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/09/stolen-passports-malaysia-flight/6230767/

The world is awash in stolen passports such as those that two passengers used to board the Malaysia Airlines flight that disappeared Saturday, but only a few countries closely monitor their use. More than 40 million travel documents, mostly passports, have been reported stolen or lost, according to a database begun in 2002 — following the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States — by the France-based international law enforcement organization Interpol.

"Only a handful of countries worldwide are taking care to make sure that persons possessing stolen passports are not boarding international flights," Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said Sunday. His organization confirmed that at least two stolen passports were used to board missing flight MH370, which lost contact with air traffic control shortly after leaving Malaysia's capital, Kuala Lumpur, en route to Beijing.

Interpol said no country has made any checks on those passports since they were reported stolen in Thailand — an Austrian one in 2012 and an Italian one in 2013 — adding it's unable to say how many other times they might have been used.

"It is too soon to speculate about any connection between these stolen passports and the missing plane," Noble said. Yet he said their use is a "great concern" and should prompt countries and airlines to check Interpol's data before allowing passengers to board.

[seveneyes]

59. check Interpol's data before allowing passengers to board

That might cause an airline to lose a ticket sale! But yes, all passport checks should bounce the unique passport number off the central database before allowing it. What good is a database if it's not used!

[uppityperson]

72. Yup, I very much agree. nt

[jsr]

57. Missing Malaysia jet: Passenger with stolen passport identified

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-malaysia-plane-passport-traveler-identified-20140310,0,5518335.story

Missing Malaysia jet: Passenger with stolen passport identified
By Barbara Demick and Julie Makinen
March 10, 2014, 3:56 a.m.

BEIJING -- Malaysian authorities have identified one of the two men who used stolen passports to board the missing Malaysia Airlines jet, the nation’s inspector general of police told local media Monday, as international search teams continued to look -- so far unsuccessfully -- for wreckage from the jet.

"I can confirm that he is not a Malaysian, but cannot divulge which country he is from yet," Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar told the Star, a major Malaysian newspaper. He added that the man is also not from Xinjiang, China -- a northwestern province of the mainland home to minority Uighurs. Uighur separatists have been blamed for a knifing rampage in southwestern China this month that left 29 dead.

Meanwhile, a Taiwanese official said national security officials received an anonymous tip last week warning that terrorists were targeting Beijing’s international airport. But the official, Cai Desheng, chief of Taiwan's national security bureau, told Taiwan’s official news agency that the call received last Tuesday was “not likely’’ to be linked to the mysterious disappearance four days later of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which was headed from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Nevertheless, the anonymous call was one of dozens of possible clues investigators are examining as they struggle to explain how the flight, carrying 239 people, simply vanished. As of Monday evening in Malaysia, investigators have found no confirmed wreckage of the airliner despite an intensive search by more than 40 ships and nearly three dozen aircraft off the southern coast of Vietnam.

[brooklynite]

58. At this mornings Press Conf, Officials said travelers did NOT have "Asian features"

[countryjake]

69. They've "identified" the person who purchased those two tickets...

Iranian Bought Tickets For Fake Passport Passengers: Report
http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/missing-jet/iranian-bought-tickets-fake-passport-passengers-report-n49016

The tickets used by the fake passport carrying passengers aboard the missing Air Malaysia Flight 370 bought their tickets through a travel agency in Pattaya, Thailand, according to a report in a British newspaper.

The tickets were booked through an Iranian middleman known as “Mr Ali” a Thai travel agent told the Financial Times newspaper.

The newspaper quoted Benjaporn Krutnait, owner of the Grand Horizon travel agency in Pattaya, as saying the Iranian had asked her to book the two men to travel to Europe on March 1, specifying only that she find them cheap tickets.

She initially booked them on two separate flights -– one on Qatar Airways and another on Etihad airline –- but the tickets expired before she heard again from the Iranian, she said.

[brooklynite]

70. UPDATE-Tickets linked to stolen passports for missing Malaysia flight were purchased by Iranian man,

per CNN

[countryjake]

71. Kazem Ali purchased tickets for two friends...

who he said wanted to return home to Europe.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_inthenews

The stolen passports

It is perplexing enough that a jetliner seemed to have vanished without a trace. Adding to the mystery is the news that at least two people on board were traveling on passports stolen from an Austrian and an Italian.

According to Thai police officials, an Iranian man by the name of Kazem Ali purchased the tickets for two friends who he said wanted to return home to Europe. While Ali made the initial booking by telephone, either Ali or someone acting on his behalf paid for the tickets in cash, according to police.

Rahman said Monday that authorities have reviewed security footage from the airport and said the men who traveled on the stolen passports "are not Asian-looking men."

[EX500rider]

76. As time goes by the mid-air break up scenario becomes more unlikely..

...as it makes a nice wide field of floating debris....seat cushions, life vests, luggage, dinner trays, bodies, etc..

Then you are more likely looking for a more intact but sunk plane i would guess.....maybe decompression knocks out both pilots after they dialed in a emergency descent but before donning masks....like Helios flt#522 but with more descent dialed in.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 )

[brooklynite]

77. UPDATE: Mystery fake-passport holders on flight MH370 were Iranian

The two men travelling on stolen passports on the Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 that mysteriously disappeared on Saturday have been identified as Iranian nationals.

A BBC Persian report quotes an Iranian friend of one of the men, who said he hosted the pair in Kuala Lumpur after they arrived from Tehran in the days preceding their flight to Beijing.

The friend, who knew one of the men from his school days in Iran, said the men had bought the fake passports because they wanted to migrate to Europe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/10688861/Mystery-fake-passport-holders-on-flight-MH370-were-Iranian.html

[uppityperson]

80. Thanks, I was just coming to post this. Poor guys.