Family says brain-dead Jahi McMath showing signs of life

[alp227]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

Despite being declared brain-dead three months ago, 13-year-old Jahi McMath of Oakland is tossing and turning in her hospital bed and signaling that she's aware of what's going on around her, a family member said Friday.

Jahi suffered what doctors say were terminal complications from a tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital Oakland on Dec. 9 and was certified dead three days later. But her family has refuted the certification and moved the teen's body to an undisclosed care facility, where she remains connected to a ventilator and feeding tube.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Family-says-brain-dead-Jahi-McMath-showing-signs-5319514.php

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Their hope has blinded them into thinking she's alive...

It is most unfortunate.

I wonder if the family will let it be known when she inevitably dies.

[SunSeeker]

23. She has already died.

I wonder if the family will let it be known when she inevitably decomposes. Her brain is already a mass of mush, with no blood going to it.

Sad. This grief-stricken family is being lead on and taken advantage of by that Terry Schiavo group.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

25. True; I misspoke.

I am a nurse, and I know she's already dead.

I should have used a different word.

I wonder the same things you do...

[azurnoir]

32. I don't know if you can answer this but in her current state is Jahi's body capable

of making new cells? Is her bone marrow functioning? these are things that IMO would be indicative of life but no one seems to ask

[CaliforniaPeggy]

33. No, her body is not capable of making new cells of any sort. Her bone marrow is not working either.

She is clinically dead.

Her heart is beating because she is being artificially ventilated. Eventually her heart will not be able to conduct any electrical impulses and it will stop beating, no matter how hard they ventilate her.

Does that help?

[azurnoir]

34. yes and that's what I suspected

I knew about her being on a vent and it's purpose but I couldn't take that into account because I've been there myself and I am most definitely not dead however cell production and bone marrow function in particular would be the measures for me

Thank so much

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

39. Ok, I'm curious.

Why would those be your measures? I gotta say, this is nothing covered in any of the nursing courses I had in either the ADN or BSN directly, but as far as I know, erythropoiesis is stimulated by erythropoietin, which will get produced by the kidneys, I think it is, when sensors there say there's not enough oxygen in the blood they're filtering. Is there some other factor or actual hormone in the bloodstream I missed that is coming down from the one of the endocrine structures in the brain that also is absolutely required for marrow function? Ie, does the brain have to be alive for RBC production?

(I'm not trying to be glib or challenging here, I'm assuming you know something I don't, which pretty much everyone out there does at some point or other. )

[Crunchy Frog]

52. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect.

See my other post. http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=756910

[CaliforniaPeggy]

59. OK, I stand corrected! Thanks. n/t

[Sunlei]

66. no, she did not get enough oxygen for a period of time & that caused 'brain death'. She lost a lot

of blood really fast and the hospital didn't react fast enough to that emergency.

How long was she without oxygen and decent blood circulation? long enough to cause brain death (complete brain death??who knows!) but not long enough to kill other major organs apparently.

[greiner3]

94. " No, her body is not capable of making new cells of any sort."

I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure the cellular DNA is reproducing cells constantly.

If this were not the case, no hemoglobin would replace the dead/dying hemoglobin cells and with a life expectancy or 120 days, within weeks anemia would occur and by say 2 months the patient would die.

Skin cells live 2-3 weeks so within a week the patient would develop gaping external ulcers and undoubtably die from bacterial infections.

The only thing that is dead is the brain and there are two competing classifications of such;

"Brain death is used as an indicator of legal death in many jurisdictions, but it is defined inconsistently. Various parts of the brain may keep living when others die, and the term "brain death" has been used to refer to various combinations. For example, although a major medical dictionary says that "brain death" is synonymous with "cerebral death" (death of the cerebrum), the US National Library of Medicine Medical Subject Headings (MeSH) system defines brain death as including the brainstem. The distinctions can be important because, for example, in someone with a dead cerebrum but a living brainstem, the heartbeat and ventilation can continue unaided, whereas in whole-brain death (which includes brain stem death), only life support equipment would keep those functions going. Patients classified as brain-dead can have their organs surgically removed for organ donation."

I am not sure which category she fits into.

[Crunchy Frog]

51. I would be virtually certain that those basic physiological processes are still active.

The legal definition of death currently means absence of brain function (other than the brainstem, I believe). Bone marrow function and cellular division are not part of the legal definition of life. If that were the case, it would not be possible to maintain her body on life support, and even organ donation would be impossible.

As far as my understanding of these things goes, her organs and cells are still alive and functioning, but her brain is not.

If you hook up a completely dead corpse to a ventilator, you will simply get a piece of rotting meat connected to a machine.

If her bone marrow weren't functioning, she would be dead from infection (as in, a piece of rotting meat).

Differing definitions of death, and different "levels" of death, if you will, can make this type of discussion somewhat confusing.

[azurnoir]

69. the problem is that most of those processes have their beginnings in the brain

hypothalamus, pineal, or pituitary gland are brain structures that send the signals if you will that tells the body what do
Now as to functioning bone marrow a person can live without functioning bone marrow in medically controlled conditions, it's done everyday in bone marrow transplant-the initial 'priming' as it's called involves heavy does of TBI (total body irradiation) and chemo (Cyclophosphamide is commonly used) the point of which is to destroy the patients existing bone marrow and the transplant takes time sometimes months to engraft fully-in the mean time the patient is given heavy doses of antibiotics, antivirals, and antifungals along with red cell and platelet transfusions to maintain themselves

[Crunchy Frog]

72. Brain dead = brain dead, not bone marrow dead.

I am aware of the phenomenon of bone marrow transplant, and that very high precision treatment protocols are necessary to prevent infection. I have never heard of these protocols being used on brain dead people being maintained on physiological support.

Tissue cells do not need any contact with a brain, and don't even need to be in a body to continue dividing, as shown by the fact that they can be maintained as cultures in vitro, in laboratories.

As for your other point, I found this abstract, and I'm sure you can find plenty of other info with a brief search. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3144654

I'm not sure what point it is that you're trying to make. Should we consider people alive and maintain them on machines as long as they still exhibit bone marrow, cell division, and endocrine function?

If that's your position, I would strongly disagree with it.

[azurnoir]

73. It was a question however your abstract only accounted for the first 15 days post brain death

not the 90+ days we're at now in this case

my point was/is that this child under strictly controlled conditions can 'imitate' life in a manner of speaking

[kestrel91316]

62. Kinda sorta, since oxygenated blood is still circulating.

But without hormones from her brain, and without brainstem function, even her body's automatic processes will get less and less efficient over time. The respiratory assistance is just delaying her body's inevitable decay.

[FarPoint]

2. That family needs to secure mental health therapy.

Wonder who is footing the bill?

[davidpdx]

100. Yep

They are not in touch with reality. Grieve for her and then let her go.

[irisblue]

3. please god/

mistress of the universe/lord above, whoever deity you honor please give this family peace . may it be so. amen

[7962]

4. ^^^^+1

[shenmue]

5. Amen

My heart goes out to them.

[mackerel]

6. Well put

[itsrobert]

10. No such power

sorry.

[R. P. McMurphy]

16. says you.

But then what do you really know? None of us "know" and irisblue's beliefs are every bit as valid as yours. The difference is that I don't see her being condescending to you. So score one for her maturity and humanity.

[itsrobert]

19. Condescending is in the eyes of the beholder

It's not really mature to give people hope of someone/something that does not exist.

[magical thyme]

21. it also is not mature to assume you know what is actually unknowable.

You don't know that a higher power does not exist, any more than others can know that one does.

[R. P. McMurphy]

22. well said.

And polite as well. I commend you.

[Lost_Count]

38. It really is easy for atheists to come across as smug...

Last edited Sun Mar 16, 2014, 10:08 AM - Edit history (1)

Or even condescending because they are the only ones with facts on their sides.

Still though, Russell's teapot in orbit doesn't help someone feel better.

[A Simple Game]

40. So please share the facts that prove there is no God. This agnostic would like to know.

As far as I know, atheists can only have a belief that there is no God. Please educate me.

[Lost_Count]

41. Sigh...

1) This really isn't the thread for it..

2) If you desperately want to get into it then I refer you to Russell and his teapot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong. Russell's teapot is still referred to in discussions concerning the existence of God.

The takeaway is that while it may possibly be true that there really is a teapot orbiting somewhere in the nether regions of our solar system, the odds are exceedingly slim. The most certainly are not 50/50 as some would like to advocate. "My guess is just as valid as yours"

Statistics matter...

So in conclusion, I cannot prove that there is no God, just as I can't prove that there isn't a nice piece of Ming pottery spinning merrily around the sun.

However, I can be extremely and very reasonably certain that such a thing isn't there as there is no evidence to support the idea and there is a long list of reasons why it is virtually impossible.

You want to talk about it? Go nuts.. but burden of proof lies with you.

[A Simple Game]

44. I have no burden of proof, I have made no claim.

As an agnostic I don't care or believe either way. If there is a God, he/she has not made it obvious to me, and until any supreme being manifests and intervenes in my life I have no need or care if there is or isn't a God.

You on the other hand have stated there is no God, an absolute must have proof, where is it? If there is no proof then there must be doubt. You as far as I am concerned are living in a belief system equal, but opposite, to saying there absolutely is a God. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine when people don't understand that absolute means without doubt, very little in life is 100%.

Sigh...and the teapot story isn't even cute. You do know that philosophers deal in abstracts don't you?

it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong.

I would add, it is also nonsensical for him to expect others to disbelieve him on the grounds that they cannot prove him right. See how that works? Besides no one expects you to believe because you can't provide negative proof, just don't belittle others for believing if they can't provide positive proof.

[Lost_Count]

46. No one is arguing with you...

... except you...

... and you are losing...

[A Simple Game]

47. I didn't think you would answer, thanks anyway. n/t

[Lost_Count]

49. My mistake...

Since you seem to care so much about it I made the mistake of assuming you were well informed on the subject.

I'm still not sure what we disagree on, other than the fact that you give equal credence to fantastically statistically unlikely probabilities.

I will clarify. I was referring to atheists in the educated and non literal sense of the word. Those on the scale of 1-10 (1 = pure faith and 10 = pure atheism) who come in at a 9.9999999 and realize that the odds that the local church on the corner having it all right are equal to the odds of leprechauns, Unicorns, Zeus and Xenu all meeting up later for drinks.

[A Simple Game]

50. Your mistake is not understanding what agnosticism is.

You say that I give equal credence; that is false, I give no credence to either side. As an agnostic, I don't care, but as I mentioned my peeve is with those that have a belief system but with no supporting proof call it absolute. I lean, impossibly?, in a way to disbelieve both sides.

[Lost_Count]

70. Based on your posts...

You really really seem to care...

[A Simple Game]

91. I care about honesty and hypocrisy.

Many atheists are as religious about their none belief as the believers are about their God. They deny that what they think is a belief and insist it is scientific. I find it amusing and hypocritical. You to your credit have not gone that far.

At this point in time I have no care if there is a God or not. So no, I really really don't care.

[PatrynXX]

86. agnostics

tend to be tolerant of other people.


so are Atheists but I've bumped into the most vile extremist types here. and clearly there aren't many moral people on this board. If there's some hope that she has awareness. Good. But for those saying she's dead. They must be psychic I really didn't want to get into this filthy conversation but some Atheists are part of a religion and some aren't. Those who belong to a church it's a religion those who don't have no idea. Agnostics have no religion. They don't know. Certainly when I say vile I mean Hate and here it's very pure hate and just turns me off Which people would stop insulting people who are hurting

[A Simple Game]

88. There are some almost militant atheists here and they will defend their faith furiously.

As for not knowing, for me it's more not caring.

There are atheists that have a stronger belief system than many religious people.

[R. P. McMurphy]

24. condescending/arrogant/insensitive. . .

f@#king know-it-all. whatever you choose; consider yourself beheld.

[840high]

28. You don't know it

doesn't exist.

[marble falls]

42. Yeah, lets keep the ball only in your court. You are out of line.

[demwing]

101. You're wrong about hope

It's a powerful motivational tool. I suspect you know less about maturity than you'd like to believe.

[Hekate]

99. Don't believe in prayer? Don't participate.

Sheesh.

[Loudly]

14. As long as you're praying,

you might as well pray that their daughter wakes up in perfect health, and that western medicine be resoundingly humiliated.

That would be rather delicious, wouldn't it?

[R. P. McMurphy]

18. It would be great if she woke up in perfect health.

But irisblue's wish for the family to find peace is wonderful too and is a reflection on her kind spirit.

[cosmicone]

7. Spinal reflex activity

is not a sign of life

[Butterbean]

8. Chilling quote from the article

"Family attorney Christopher Dolan argued that families, not doctors, should decide when a brain-dead patient is dead."

There is so much wrong with that, I can't even....

[Cirque du So-What]

9. Seven years of college down the drain.

Might as well join the fucking Peace Corps.

[Butterbean]

15. You're just a trained dog in a white coat, obviously.

[jsr]

12. So which member of the family is going to run the brain death evaluation protocol and sign

the death certificate?

The idiot should be disbarred for this crap.

[Butterbean]

17. I also wonder what, in their minds, qualifies as actually "DEAD."

I mean, are we talking Princess Bride levels of death here? IDGI.

[christx30]

57. I agree.

What is the best time to go through her pocket and look for loose change?

[Sunlei]

81. The family will probably have to let her go if there is major infection,organ failure,

hormone medications they have to use stop working. She could stop digesting food from the feeding tube, digestive system shuts down. All those things would kill her, brain dead or not, I'm sure the family knows those complications would be the end.

My heart goes out to this family. Can you imagine more months of this wait.

[qazplm]

11. I had someone who worked for me

who's child was basically born with a brain stem, and little else that functioned...yet she just could not see it as it was.

Parents love is not always rational.

[niyad]

13. this is pretty much the same article as I posted last month. we all know which "hospital" is

housing the body--the only one unethical enough to do so. owned by a hairdresser and supported by the terri schiavo foundation and terri's brother, brian schindler.

it would be wonderful if anything the family were saying were true, and I can certainly understand the desire for hope. have not researched yet whether any body has recovered from brain death and returned to life.

[blkmusclmachine]

20. I wonder if they'll keep the kid hooked up until the body decomposes, like that hospital did in TX??

[herding cats]

26. This breaks my heart.

Sometimes reality is just too painful to face. I just hope someone qualified is there for this family when reality refuses to be put off further.

[colorado_ufo]

27. Let's get both practical and compassionate for a moment.

Three months is not a very long time; the child is only 13 years old - with much life ahead of her - and was in good health before, which is in her favor; and doctors and our current level of knowledge (and testing) are not infallible. Plus science is moving rapidly forward with advances each day.

Therefore, there is no major harm done in waitiing a little longer, even another three months or more. Let nature have a chance to heal, if it is in any way possible. Let the family be at peace, knowing that they did whatever they could for their child. Give them time to adjust, and time to say goodbye.

If this were my child, I would need that time. If I were that child, I would hope that my family would not give up on me too quickly, but also would not want to be a permanent burden to them.

All this family is asking is for a little time.

[840high]

29. Thank you.

[JoeyT]

30. She's not going to heal. She's dead. You don't get better from that.

The only thing that can happen from here on out is decomposition.

The harm it can do is the money being spent to keep a body from decomposing could be being spent saving dozens of other kids that aren't already dead. To assume that keeping her alive is both practical and compassionate requires us to assume that money is limitless and there aren't any other sick kids. How compassionate is it to tell a whole bunch of people "Sorry, we'd love to help you, but these folks aren't ready to say goodbye yet, so we're going to keep their kid on a battery of machines until the end of time." What about the peace of those kid's families?

The family isn't to blame. Their vile lawyer and the jackass hospital that are keeping her are.

[geek tragedy]

31. her brain is dead and rotting. her body is decomposing. her brain has not gotten oxygen in months.

science misses some fine points. it doesn't miss brain cells turning into soup.

sorry, but there is no hope here. the child is gone. she is not 13 years old. she was 13 years old.

[warrant46]

85. +1 N/T

[Feron]

45. This is no Miracle Max out there...

A person does not go from mostly dead to alive after brain death.

My grandfather became braindead after a botched emergency surgery. It was difficult to process how a vibrant, robust man could suddenly fail like that. But it does happen and tragically also to children as well.

Fortunately my grandfather had a Living Will and the family pulled the plug as soon as braindeath was verified. This is a far more compassionate move than propping up a corpse in a nursing home all the while giving the family false hope.

This family needs grief counselors and they need to come to grips with the fact that their daughter died quite some time ago. What they don't need is to be preyed upon by opportunists like Terry Schiavo's family.

[LeftyMom]

53. She was not "in good health" before. She was obese, asthmatic, diabetic and had severe apnea.

There have also been some reports that she had high blood pressure or unspecified heart problems, which would not surprise me considering her other issues.

[LisaL]

56. Exactly.

Just from the photos, one can see how overweight this child was.
I don't think this surgery should have ever been done on her. But that is neither here nor there.

[kestrel91316]

63. There are no "advances" that will turn her brain mush back into

a functioning brain. NONE. And there never will be.

[daybranch]

35. As a young soldier long ago I refused

to accept the fact that my buddy was dead . His heart was beating but he did not breathe. Later with PTSD I switched my friend for someone of lesser importance in my memory. It is just so hard to accept death of someone you care about if you are not prepared before hand. None in this family couod have been prepared that such a routine operation could take this smiling beautiful child away from them. They are hoping and praying. But this is in vain at this ppoint and while it is a great testament of people never to give up, it is now a matter for a priest, minister, rabbi, grief counselor, or psychologist to help them accept the horrible reality. My heart goes out to them and my anger goes out to those who let this persist.

[hedgehog]

36. Just some possible insight here - the child went into the

hospital for a routine operation and developed major complications. Reportedly, when family members at the bed side reported that she was in trouble, their concerns were ignored. Under those circumstances, it makes sense to me that the family doesn't trust the hospital enough to believe the report that their daughter is brain dead.

[niyad]

43. it wasn't a routine operation--it was a complex, three-part operation.

[kestrel91316]

64. It was ANYTHING but routine. it was complex and fraught with

known and fully disclosed risks.

The family now chooses to ignore the fact that THEY authorized this risky procedure and it went poorly.

[Sunlei]

37. stem cell treatment?

My heart goes out to Jahi's loved ones.

[LisaL]

48. We don't have any treatments that can bring dead people back to life.

Seriously.

[Sunlei]

61. you again, hello. We have stem cell research that will grow new brain nerve cells

In the usa stem cell research was so messed up by the religious that we're way behind other countries.

However animal research has grown brain cells by flooding the brain with stem cells.

They could take her to China, they're way, way far ahead of us with stem cell use on humans. Though American Vets do use stem cells to treat race horse injuries and that works great to fix their damaged legs.

If it was my family member, I'd call China medical treatment and ask them. I did for my dog

[kestrel91316]

65. There is a REALLYREALLYREALLYREALLY big difference

between growing neurons in a petri dish in a lab, and growing a new brain.

Medical science can NOT give her a new brain. NEVER going to happen. Certainly not in 2014.

[Sunlei]

68. her brain is still there, no trauma damage, it didn't liquefy did it? circulation is back.

It wasn't research in a petri dish. A brain was flooded with stem cells and new neurons grew!

[tammywammy]

71. Lack of oxygen causes a lot of damage.

Her brain cells are dead.

[Sunlei]

74. lack of oxygen kills neurons first. We don't know how long she was without oxygen to the brain.

The hospital knows. How long did it take them to respond to the emergency?

The girl was in the hospital when the bleed out from the surgery occurred. They should have responded faster.

[tammywammy]

75. Her brain was so damaged it's not even functioning.

It's still not receiving oxygen. She's dead an no "miracle" will bring her back, including stem cells.

[Sunlei]

76. You're wrong, the girl now has circulation with oxygen in her blood.

How do you know neural stem cell therapy won't work?

[tammywammy]

78. You should start a fundraiser so the nursing home can try it. n/t

[Sunlei]

80. They likely have enough funding from the foundation that cares for her

[LisaL]

90. Because her brain is dead. There is no coming back from death.

Unless you believe in resurrection.

[reACTIONary]

95. Where and when...

...has it worked in the past? A therapy like that does not just happen out of the blue by mixing together this and that.

[Humanist_Activist]

97. You do realize that even if they could regrow the brain, it wouldn't be the same as the one that...

died, right?

Brains are unique to each individual, the neurons arranged in patterns that create memory, that create you, that information is lost, never to come back, there's no backup here, this is like trying to recover previously deleted files off a hard drive that is well used, you may get a few corrupted pieces back, maybe one or two complete files, but the entirety of the contents are lost.

[kestrel91316]

109. Yes, of course she has circulation (her heart is pumping because it wasn't oxygen-deprived

long enough to die) and her lungs are providing oxygen to her blood (thanks to the mechanical ventilation), but her oxygen-deprived DEAD brain is never going to become a functioning brain again. Period.

Whether or not it has actually liquefied or not is sort of moot.

Some of you people seriously need some anatomy, physiology, and basic pathology before you go coming up with these fanciful notions.

[LisaL]

89. Her brain is dead.

[creeksneakers2]

82. What happened to your dog?

Did it get better?

[Sunlei]

84. What happened was, it became time to let her go.

She started limping at age 5- turned out to be bone cancer. She got good vet care and then even had her front leg amputated. That gave her a happy, 'pain free' year. Our Vet told us it would come back, and it did in her lungs. We had to put her to sleep, so she wouldn't suffer.

I contacted china not about the dogs medical treatment, (we have great Vets in Houston), about their dog clone program. They have cloned many dogs with success. It was 20k!!, just a dream, I can't afford that. I know now that each pet is 'unique' like people. Of course,even a clone would never be the same dog.

China is so far ahead of us in the medical sciences field.

[reACTIONary]

96. China is far ahead of us in the...

...medical scammers field. The stem cell "therapy" you have mentioned above is a fraud. It takes money from hopeful patients who are desperate for help and gives nothing in return. It is an unethical - in fact, criminal - enterprise.

http://www.quackwatch.org/06ResearchProjects/stemcell.html
http://www.nature.com/news/china-s-stem-cell-rules-go-unheeded-1.10410

[PumpkinAle]

54. How much is this nursing home er "hospital"

actually doing because they were not even able to put in a feeding tube for tube for the transfer of Jahi.

Seriously, this is a very sad situation and one I would not wish on anyone. But Jahi is dead and all they have is a slowly decomposing body, which will never recover.

The lawyer needs to be investigated because he and those at the nursing home seem to be fleecing the family.

[LisaL]

55. No, they did manage to put a feeding tube in.

Her heart likely would have stopped already without a feeding tube.
I mean, she is still dead but she has a feeding tube.

[PumpkinAle]

60. The Children's hospital had to put the feeding tube

in before the transfer because the home wasn't equipped to do it.... it is a nursing home not a hospital she was transferred to.

[LisaL]

87. No, that's not true.

Feeding tube was put in after the transfer by a new place. Children's hospital refused to do it on the account that she was already dead.

[PumpkinAle]

93. Oh, my mistake I

thought the hospital had to put in the feed tube because of the decision.

Thank you.

[LovingA2andMI]

58. And no one has the "Authority" to speak on behalf of this family except Attorney Nolan....FACE IT.

Legality, it is the family and particularity Jahi's Mother as next of Kin singularity can decide how long her child will stay on the ventilator and receive other means to sustain the Jahi's heartbeat and respiration. Not the arm chair Nurses, Doctors and Others (there are so many others that its' frankly ridiculous) believing they've some right of say on a PRIVATE family manner.

Also, yes...whatever happens to Jahi's care or lack there of his PRIVATE at this point. Why? Because Jahi's body was given to a custody of Ms. Winkfield --her mother-- and frankly, that's the end of this story until the mother ends ventilator support.

The armchair quarterbacking of a private family decision is amazing to me. The family has a Facebook page where they share information on Jahi's status where approriate for THEM. Far as I know, that is the ONLY means of statements the family has issued on Jahi's condition in months.

Meanwhile, Attorney Nolan OCCASIONALLY since Jahi was moved, speaks with Los Angeles Times reporters but even his statements are limited on the child's current condition and more focused on the prior legal fight to move Jahi from Oakland Children's Hospital.

Which concludes there is "nothing to see here".

Jahi's body is still being assisted by mechanical means. Jahi's Mother --who has SOLE Power of Attorney over her daughter welfare-- has decided not to pull any plugs on her child. The child is receiving care at a facility the family is comfortable with and chosen.

Attorney Nolan did his job with ensuring Jahi was moved at her Mother's request from Oakland Children's Hospital to receive care elsewhere. Updates on Jahi's condition are given by the family via a Facebook page for the child's behalf. That's the story, period.

Debating about when, if or how Jahi will be pulled off life support is USELESS as none of the CHOIR has the power to make this decision -- Ms. Winkfield does.

[kestrel91316]

67. Boy, you are in the wrong place if you don't want people commenting on

a very public case.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

77. No one has authority to speak on this....

Now I'll go ahead and post a wall of text speaking on it.

[jberryhill]

79. Not sure where you got your legal training....

But abuse of a corpse is illegal in most states.

[warrant46]

83. No legal training for some people

They just make it up as they go along

It is however a Do It Yourself Science Experiment on a Dead Corpse ( a Kind of Frankenstein Exercise) as long as the Benjamins ($$$) keep flowing

[LovingA2andMI]

98. Legal Training???

Legality Jahi is in the custody (which was decided by a COURT OF LAW) of her Mother and Ms. Winkfield has Power of Attorney over the condition of her child. Acceptance of facts in this story is the first step of correcting your "abuse of a corpse" legal errors.

[johnlucas]

102. Thank you for saying this. Tired of these armchair quarterbacks.

Doctors don't know everything. End of story.
There have been many times when a doctor diagnosed someone with 3 weeks to live & then the person not only recovers but lives to a ripe old age.
That's why they call it PRACTICING medicine.

Yes they went to school & learned all the established-so-far knowledge on the human body but the human body has exponential secrets the medical field has yet to discover.
What was the iron clad truth yesterday may be exposed for a fairy tale tomorrow.
The iron clad truth at one time was "the only way to get rid of a headache is to drill a hole in the head".
Then someone discovered aspirin.

It's not even a matter of religion vs. science.
Scientists may one day figure out how to revive someone from brain death.
You don't know WHAT'S possible in the world of tomorrow.

The discovery of this may just come through Jahi McMath.

If the family—if her mother—wants to keep her on the machine until that discovery is made, let them.
If Jahi McMath recovers, a lot of these know-it-alls here will look ridiculous.
It's a personal decision & nobody is being harmed because of it.
The family wants to give Jahi a chance & they should be allowed to do it.

Doctors just don't know everything. People really need to internalize that reality.

John Lucas

[LovingA2andMI]

111. Thank you John!

Now if others will let this family deal with the situation at hand and keep out of their business, maybe just maybe a proper resolution will occur.

[vankuria]

112. This is a very public case

And folks have a right to comment, just as you have. The fact that the family has turned to social media to post updates on Jahi's behalf only proves the interest this case has generated.

Also, from reading the various comments I believe people have shown a lot of sympathy for this family and their daughter and do not wish for them to be given false hope or be misled about Jahi's prognosis.

This is indeed a very sad case and whether Jahi is able to hang in for a few more months or the inevitable occurs, the heartbreak will be the same.

[Jamastiene]

92. Ooookayyyy.

If she is doing that now, maybe it is time to call in Daryl with his crossbow or Michonne with her katana, because the kid is dead.

[dionysus]

103. thread win.

[TeeYiYi]

104. Your 'thread win'...

...was alerted on yesterday. Crazy, huh?

TYY

[dionysus]

105. wait what? the one from thursday about cats, or the one i posted just now?

[TeeYiYi]

106. Sorry, I was unclear...

I meant Jamastiene's "Ooookayyyy" post was alerted. I served on the jury.

TYY

[dionysus]

107. omg, i hope it was 0-6....

[TeeYiYi]

108. 1-5 to leave it...

Pretty crazy alert, considering everything else that's been posted in this thread. I voted to leave it, with no explanation. I didn't think it needed one.

On Sun Mar 16, 2014, 11:44 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Ooookayyyy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=757168

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

this is as disgusting as those Rachel Corrie "Pancake Brigade" posts a few years back

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 16, 2014, 11:56 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Rachel Corrie is a different matter altogether. Not in the best taste perhaps, but not really malicious either, or personally directed, so leave it.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Gallows humor. Not maybe your cup of tea, but not comparable to the Corrie posts, I think.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

TYY

[BlueInPhilly]

110. The kid is a gravy train

and the family is still soliciting financial contributions. Of course they'd say that the kid is "improving", and if they really want all the cynicism to stop, all they need to do is post a video of her doing what they say she is doing. Case closed. But they didn't because really, they couldn't, could they?

For all the paroxysms of piety by the parents, I don't understand why they just couldn't let her go to Heaven. Or turn off the ventilator, and if a miracle were forthcoming, Jahi would stand up and talk.