Venezuela's Maduro gives ultimatum to Caracas protesters
Source: Reuters
Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro warned protesters in Caracas on Saturday to clear a square they have made their stronghold, or face eviction by security forces.
Plaza Altamira, in upscale east Caracas, has been a focus of anti-government protests and violence during six weeks of unrest around Venezuela that has killed 28 people.
"I'm giving the Chuckys, the killers, just a few hours," Maduro said, using the name of a murderous child-doll in a horror film to describe anti-government demonstrators who have made the normally genteel 1940s square a base of operations.
"If they don't retreat, I'm going to liberate those spaces with the security forces," Maduro added. "They have a few hours to go home ... Chuckys, get ready, we're coming for you."
Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/venezuelas-maduro-gives-ultimatum-caracas-protesters-221146286.html
Zorra
(27,670 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)President Maduro knows that if he allows violent anti-government protesters to claim a victory, they will only push for more and more. President Yanukovich of Ukraine caved in to pressure from the U. S. and its allies by agreeing to pull his police off the streets of Kiev. Within twelve hours he was fleeing Ukraine for his very life and the government had been taken over by fascists and right wing ultra-nationalists.
What President Maduro is choosing to do is clearly risky, but what choice does he really have? To allow the protesters to remain in control of parts of the nation's Capital would only lead to his having to hand his country over totally to an American-backed, wealthy elite with no concern for the welfare of the vast majority of Venezuela's people. I'm sure he is not happy to take this step, but at this point, I have to sympathize with why he must take it.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)It will empower more students.
Yanukovich did that when hundreds of protesters were killed in Kiev. If Maduro follows suit he will have in fact not learned anything at all.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Yanukovich made his choice to trust the promises of the Western allies. I doubt if President Maduro will make the same mistake. He knows who he is really dealing with.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)There were always protests of this nature but he never cracked down to any significant extent. He went on a cadena and made fun of the protesters.
There were a few instances such as workers strikes where he used tear gas but those were small scale instances.
This will surely backfire.
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)You're not convincing anyone when you claim that the deaths were caused by "violent protesters" rather than the government security forces. Where's the evidence for it? Did you get that from RT, which is a far worse propaganda/lie fabricator than any western media outlet? Maduro's days are numbered, Heinz Dieterich (the supposed great mentor of Hugo Chávez) said so himself, and he blames the government's poor handling of the economy and the crime rate for it, not some secret CIA intervention.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Not surprising coming from someone who believes everything he reads at rt.com
Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get the cracked skulls you want.
EX500rider
(10,809 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)"liberal" in your assessment. We've been treated to charges of "authoritarianism" by the Obama administration, even when it wasn't true. But, you defend this crackdown just because Maduro hates the US?
I guess the problem with actually being a liberal, and playing one on the internet is you have to remain consistent even if you don't like the players (protestors).
EX500rider
(10,809 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)EX500rider
(10,809 posts)For a nation with 10x Venz. population?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)How many motorcyclists did the Occupiers decapitate with nylon wire?
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)How many armed groups opened fire against the protesters from their motorcycles?
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)They leave it when the GNB comes and retake it after the GNB leaves.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)than joining a movement in any way approved of by the US government.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Dem4ever27
(49 posts)But I notice there's a big overlap here in the people that hated Occupy and defended the crackdown on them and the people that are cheering on these protests.
As long as they're being peaceful, let them protest.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)I guess it's only OK if you put up "checkpoints" armed to the teeth.
But blocking a road with demonstration signs is a big no no.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Was there really no better choice to lead them than this piece of work?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Diosdado Cabello, his old, dear friend from way back in his Army days, but Diosdado isn't as fond of Cuba and wanted to pull away from them, keeping more of the oil for Venezuelans and limiting their influence over the nation, and he's said as much in the past. The Cubans had the chemotherapy, so Diosdado was pushed aside for the simple-minded and easily manipulated Maduro (witness him fondling the Puerto Rican flag, rhapsodizing about how wonderful it is, thinking it's the Cuban flag)....
Que hermosa esa bandera....
Raul Castro NEEDS that oil, and he exercises a lot of control over Maduro. He tells Maduro what to do as often as not, which is part of the reason why VZ has gotten so fucked up so fast.
Zorro
(15,722 posts)and he's now channeling his inner Fidel with these audacious claims about US government plots to assassinate him.
His desperation is becoming even more evident, especially with him alternatively excoriating the US and then inviting the US to participate in a regional dialog about the conditions in Venezuela.
I suspect there's a lot of behind-the-scene political maneuvering between pro- and anti-Cuban factions in Maduro's administration, but the complexity of the situation is compounded by the presence of Cuban intelligence agents within the government.
MADem
(135,425 posts)isn't listening (he's fearful of doing a full-bore crackdown, which I suspect Raul is pushing) or isn't listening hard enough and doesn't quite get what Raul wants out of him.
I heard that some of the VZ "troops" that were beating on the protesters weren't Venezuelan. No idea if that's accurate, but there have been charges of Cuban accents under those helmets and behind those shields.
Cabello, who by most accounts was Chavez's logical successor, wanted a little distance from Cuba; that's why Raul told Chavez to pick "Maburro" as the students call him. He's more easily manipulated, but the problem, I think, is that he's a lot like Karzai in Afghanistan...he needs a lot of care and feeding, he's a whiner, and he's not all that smart.
Zorro
(15,722 posts)in some UNASUR forum.
Smells like a trap for Diosdado Cabello, something Maduro could use against him as a partner in "Yankee aggression."
MADem
(135,425 posts)The only uniform Maduro ever wore was the same one Ralph Kramden wore.
Diosdado, OTOH, served in the military, in uniform, alongside Hugo. They went through a rather basic struggle together, and Maduro was late to the party...!
I'd be surprised if Cabello allowed himself to be gamed. One never knows, though...!
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)And his last mistake was choosing his successor with his blessing the most dim-witter character in the entire government. It was inevitable that whoever Chávez picked would be the one chavistas would vote for, but now's when people are realizing just what big mistake that was, and many, if not most, are regretting that their Supreme Commander chose the uneducated idiot of Maduro to succeed him. One only needs to take a look at the overall attendance at all the rallies called for by the regime. There's no comparison whatsoever to the amount of people that have been present in the opposition rallies, which are not only spontaneous, but also actually have legit causes to protest about. Just today the government held a rally to support the Armed Forces because they felt they had been "mistreated" by the opposition (funny, I remember seeing more students and innocent protesters actually having been photographed/filmed being actually mistreated and murdered by the national guard and chavista motorcycle gangs more than those on the armed forces' side), which is actually unconstitutional in itself, as the Armed Forces should not, according to the constitution, be used for political purposes, and one only need to take an aerial look at the overall turnout for that "rally" and see just how little support they have now. The government has lost the streets and the people, and they're getting REALLY desperate to hang on to power, because they know they will be judged if they lose their political immunity. Can't wait to see the names of the venezuelan government officials whose US-based assets will be seized when the US government carries out the sanctions they've unanimously voted in favor of. If Maduro and his colleagues are so anti-American, though, then they should of course have nothing to worry about, right? I'm sure there's no significant Chavista figure with any bank accounts or properties in the US, right?
7962
(11,841 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Here are a few:
"US Must Recognize Venezuela's Elections" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/us-must-recognize-venezuela_b_3103540.html
This human rights and labor leader was an election observer.
"Carter Center Issues Report on Venezuela Elections" http://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/venezuela-070313.html
"The report finds that the Venezuelan population, and the political parties and candidates in general, have demonstrated confidence in the performance and integrity of the automated touch-screen voting machines in accurately counting the votes cast on April 14.
"There is not agreement, however, about the quality of the voting conditions and whether every registered voter is able to vote one time, and only one time. In addition, the report finds a series of inequities in campaign conditions in terms of both access to financial resources and access to the media, which diminish the competitiveness of elections, particularly in a legal framework that permits indefinite reelection of public officials."
In other words, the Carter Center found a clean touch-screen voting process and some systemic problems. Kind of like here.
"National Lawyers Guild Monitors Conclude Venezuelan Elections Were Well-Organized, Fair and Transparent"
http://www.nlg.org/news/announcements/national-lawyers-guild-monitors-conclude-venezuelan-elections-were-well-organized
Real critiques of the election process are one thing; cheap shots are another.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Particularly with regards to the irregularities.
Points 4, 5, and 6 point to real issues.
I still believe that the three round verification can easily be gamed if the final actas are not compared to the vote tally. Many actas were unsigned. It's a true breakdown in the system. Over 700k votes were missing actas. It was a very questionable process and it can be seen how it can be gamed.
ChangoLoa
(2,010 posts)NOT a clean touch-screen voting process , but clean touch-screen voting machines.
It is far from being the same. Precisely, there's a whole process before reaching the machine, which showed many "systemic problems" such as people voting multiple times, dead voters voting and fingerprint identification machines being turned off. Those were the points that the opposition was asking to verify last april. None was tested, only the transmission between the machines and the National Electoral Council was.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Not exactly expecting wholesale slaughter being required for just clearing a few streets to make them open to the public.
And I have a question which may be from a mistaken point of view:
If it the wealthy suburban or gated community or whatever it is - and they want to block their streets, why not just leave them alone?
Blockade the place if it's that bad for the rest of the country, just to let them know they are still part of the nation. I mean, yeah, that's rude as hell, but you either are or are not part of the body politic.
Do they want to secede, or use their neighborhood for less savory activities than are being reported?
One neighborhood, even if it
s the so-called rich part of town, when all is said and done, is just one area of many. It's not like they are barricading the parliament.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)I guess occupying Plaza Altamira with GNB 24/7 so the students can't take it back? Because if so that would be hilariously stupid. The students could easily find another symbol for the protests. There are dozens of plazas in Caracas.
Plaza Bolivar, anyone?
Altamira is symbolic because that's where a massacre happened before. It's probable that the students are basically daring the government to try it again. The religious symbolism of being a martyr also plays a part most likely.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)We're not getting all the details...
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)It makes it a lot easier for crazy (yes, I say crazy, because I think their lives are in danger) to go there.
It's fairly localized, residents of the area will not come out. They're not as insane as the students. I don't mean that in a bad way. I think the students are risking anything and everything to resist the government crackdowns. I think they are foolish. Some will die. They are just too invigorated to understand that.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)He's got a lot of nerve calling the victims of his colectivos 'killers.' His people are the ones doing all the killing.
Archae
(46,301 posts)Maduro is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and can do no wrong!
It's all the fault of the "Chuckys," the CIA and all the conspirators here in the US!
MADem
(135,425 posts)picked MaBurro either!
Diosdado "God Given Hair" Cabello would have had the nod--THAT was Chavez's friend....not "Manuro!"
ripcord
(5,268 posts)Who could possibly expect a former bus driver to be a sub par "president".
Beacool
(30,247 posts)or the one that brought the advent of Mao in China and the Bolsheviks in Russia.
Have any of you lived under a dictatorship? I have, and whether it comes from the Right or Left, they all have some things in common. They elect themselves for life and they end up repressing the media and their country's people. That's why they all fail in the end.
Chavez wanted to become another Castro and so does Maduro, except that Maduro doesn't have what it takes to keep Venezuela under his power. Putin would love Russia to return to the Soviet Union of his old KGB days. What amazes me is how many here who are so quick to bash the US at every turn, take up for this bunch of dictator wannabes.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)[div class="excerpt"]Back in power, Batista suspended the 1940 Constitution and revoked most political liberties, including the right to strike. He then aligned with the wealthiest landowners who owned the largest sugar plantations, and presided over a stagnating economy that widened the gap between rich and poor Cubans.[7] Batista's increasingly corrupt and repressive government then began to systematically profit from the exploitation of Cuba's commercial interests, by negotiating lucrative relationships with the American mafia, who controlled the drug, gambling, and prostitution businesses in Havana, and with large multinational American corporations that had invested considerable amounts of money in Cuba.[7][8] To quell the growing discontent amongst the populacewhich was subsequently displayed through frequent student riots and demonstrationsBatista established tighter censorship of the media, while also utilizing his anti-Communist secret police to carry out wide-scale violence, torture and public executions; ultimately killing anywhere from 1,000 to 20,000 people.[9][10] For several years until 1959, the Batista government received financial, military, and logistical support from the United States.[11]
Catalyzing the resistance to such tactics, for two years (December 1956 December 1958) Fidel Castro's July 26 Movement and other nationalist rebelling elements led an urban and rural-based guerrilla uprising against Batista's government, which culminated in his eventual defeat by rebels under the command of Che Guevara at the Battle of Santa Clara on New Year's Day 1959. Batista immediately fled the island with an amassed personal fortune to the Dominican Republic, where strongman and previous military ally Rafael Trujillo held power. Batista eventually found political asylum in Oliveira Salazar's Portugal, where he lived until dying of a heart attack on August 6, 1973, near Marbella, Spain.[12]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba
Venezuela
Following the fall of Marcos Pérez Jiménez in 1958, Venezuelan politics were dominated by the Third Way Christian democratic COPEI and the center-left social democratic Democratic Action (AD) parties; this two-party system was formalized by the puntofijismo arrangement. Economic crises in the 1980s and 1990s led to a political crisis which saw hundreds dead in the Caracazo riots of 1989, two attempted coups in 1992, and impeachment of President Carlos Andrés Pérez for corruption in 1993. A collapse in confidence in the existing parties saw the 1998 election of Hugo Chávez, who had led the first of the 1992 coup attempts, and the launch of a "Bolivarian Revolution", beginning with a 1999 Constituent Assembly to write a new Constitution of Venezuela.
The opposition's attempts to unseat Chávez included the 2002 Venezuelan coup d'état attempt, the Venezuelan general strike of 20022003, and the Venezuelan recall referendum, 2004, all of which failed. Chávez was re-elected in December 2006, but suffered a significant defeat in 2007 with the narrow rejection of the Venezuelan constitutional referendum, 2007, which had offered two packages of constitutional reforms aimed at deepening the Bolivarian Revolution.
There are currently two major blocs of political parties in Venezuela: the incumbent leftist bloc United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV), its major allies Fatherland for All (PPT) and the Communist Party of Venezuela (PCV), and the opposition bloc grouped into the electoral coalition Mesa de la Unidad Democrática. This includes A New Era (UNT) together with allied parties Project Venezuela, Justice First, Movement for Socialism (MAS) and others. Hugo Chávez, the central figure of the Venezuelan political landscape since his election to the Presidency in 1998 as a political outsider, died in office in early 2013, and was succeeded by Nicolás Maduro (initially as interim President, before narrowly winning the Venezuelan presidential election, 2013).
The Venezuelan president is elected by a vote, with direct and universal suffrage, and is both head of state and head of government. The term of office is six years, and (as of 15 February 2009) a president may be re-elected an unlimited number of times. The president appoints the vice president and decides the size and composition of the cabinet and makes appointments to it with the involvement of the legislature. The president can ask the legislature to reconsider portions of laws he finds objectionable, but a simple parliamentary majority can override these objections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela#Government_and_politics
EX500rider
(10,809 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)when Chavez lost a referendum on changing the constitution, he accepted the public's will.
Those are hardly dictator wannabes.
Zorro
(15,722 posts)After losing the popular vote in 2007 on changing the Venezuelan constitution to eliminate term limits for the office of the president, Chavez vowed to hold more votes on the issue until that change was approved.
And so another vote was held in 2009 (illegally, as some have alleged), and term limits were eliminated.
Chavez may not fit the mold of the archetypal dictator, but he was quite determined to remain in power one way or the other.
ddddemarco
(7 posts)Maduro knows this and has decided that, in the absence of any real desire to discuss the issues, in fact with no coherent alternative to the status quo, these nut-jobs are insurrectionists. With nothing but noise and violence these puppets of Wall Street are simply out to stop anything that restricts there choke-hold on the world's economy. This is a key difference between "protests" in the US which do not threaten the functioning of the government and are met with a heavy hand by authorities, and Right-Wing mob action with no plan, no theory, and no purpose (except a yearning for power). The scumbags that murdered Chavez are behind this, nothing could be more obvious. They have nothing else to offer. I call these fascists the insurrectionists they are, like the ones in the US in contempt of an organized society that does not keep them in a privileged status.
......The world has never had a good definition of the word liberty, and the American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other mens labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same nameliberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible namesliberty and tyranny.
The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheeps throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty, especially as the sheep was a black one. Plainly the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of the word liberty;
--A. Lincoln
EX500rider
(10,809 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Unfair to smear Cuba in that way. Their doctors did everything possible to treat his cancer.
Welcome (back?) to DU.
uncommonlink
(261 posts)I thought he died of Pancreatic Cancer?
Take your revisionist history elsewhere.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Because their shitty diagnoses (they "cured" him in 2012) and their butchery of him allowed his cancer to metastasize and go into every damn crevice of his body.
Never mind the USA (though we do perform some serious, aggressive and life - extending cancer work here), had he gone to Spain, to Brazil, to UK, he might have had a fighting chance to at least enjoy a slow, rather than a precipitous, decline.
Instead, he put his fate in the hands of clods with a soup spoon, and they killed him. And then, the bums put a breathing tube in his corpse and pretended he was alive for weeks. Disgraceful.
uncommonlink
(261 posts)Or are you just messing with us?