Poland calls for larger U.S. military presence in eastern Europe

[dipsydoodle]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - The U.S. should increase its military presence in Poland and in other NATO members in central and eastern Europe in light of the Ukraine crisis, Polish Defence Minister Tomasz Siemoniak said on Saturday.

Siemoniak said Washington was open towards the idea but detailed talks were yet to begin.

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden visited Poland last Tuesday and confirmed plans to deploy elements of a U.S. missile shield in Poland by 2018 and met with the Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk and President Bronislaw Komorowski.

"The U.S. must increase its presence in (central and eastern) Europe, also in Poland," he said RMF FM radio.

Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/22/uk-poland-usa-military-idUKBREA2L0AZ20140322

[Renew Deal]

1. This was inevitable

[dipsydoodle]

2. You will find elsewhere

That Poles who live within a 50 mile radius of the proposed missile bases are not too enthusiastic at the thought. Subject cropped up when the anti-missile shield to protect from Iran was current. Russia later responded they would do the same in the Kaliningrad Oblast to the north of Poland if sites in Poland went ahead.

[jakeXT]

3. Yay ... Full Spectrum Dominance

“Geo-Political Game-Changer”: NATO Chief Rants About “Russian Aggression”

Ukraine crisis is a ”game-changer” for Allies NATO Secretary General tells Brussels Forum
The crisis in Ukraine is a geo-political “game-changer” for NATO Allies who must strengthen their economic and military ties in wake of Russia’s military aggression against Ukraine, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said in a speech delivered at the ‘Brussels Forum’ on Friday (21 March 2014). “The transatlantic bond and NATO matter more for Europe than ever before,” he said.

The Secretary General set out three priorities which he called on Allies to address in wake of the crisis; to reaffirm Allied commitment to collective defence, strengthen support to Ukraine and the wider region, “and to make clear that we can no longer do business as usual with Russia.” Mr. Fogh Rasmussen said the September NATO Summit in Wales will be a key one for Allies to ensure they have the full range of capabilities to deter and defend against any threat.

The ‘Brussels Forum’ is organized by the German Marshall Fund of the United States. Mr Fogh Rasmussen was taking part in a panel with his predecessors as Secretary General, Lord Robertson and Jaap de Hoop Scheffer.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_108225.htm/

http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/

[bkanderson76]

4. Forget It

[pangaia]

5. No, European NATO members should have a bigger military

presence in Eastern Europe if they choose.

[davidpdx]

6. I tend to agree

We have a big enough presence in Europe already. Poland is part of Europe, they should protect them. If Ukraine decides to join the EU than they should turn toward them for any help.

Once the whole thing with the missing flight from Malaysia starts to narrow down to a search area the Chinese are going to start going back to trying to control the entire ocean and air between China and Korea all the way down to the Philippines again.

[Adrahil]

10. In general, I think....

... the Euros need to quit treating the U.S. as it's military muscle, to call on when it's necessary, and to castigate when politically convenient. They need to take more responsibility for defending themselves (or maintaining a power projection capability when they think they need it), and we in the U.S. can quit spending ridiculous amounts on out military forces and can concentrate more on things like infrastructure, scientific research, and education.

[okaawhatever]

11. According to Global Firepower rankings Europe has quite a bit of firepower. It may be a case of

willingness to use it.

1. U.S.
2. Russia
3. China
4. India
5. UK
6. France
7. Germany
8. Turkey
9. S Korea
10. Japan
11. Israel
12. Italy
13. Egypt
14. Brazil
15. Pakistan
16. Canada
17. Taiwan
18. Poland
19. Indonesia
20. Australia
21. Ukraine

[7962]

18. N Korea didnt make that list? That seems odd.

[okaawhatever]

25. Global Firepower rankings take into account a myriad of factors including available oil/energy

roadway and railway coverage, debt and reserves of foreign money and gold, available manpower, population fit for service, as well as regular military strengths like numbers of helicopters and submarines. They do not take into account nuclear capabilities. N Korea is number 35 on the list because of their economy, aging population and lack of natural resources. Here is a link to a comparison of N Korea and S Korea and then a link to the site in general.



http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=North-Korea&country2=South-Korea&Submit=Compare+Countries

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

[7962]

33. Thanks for the extra info.

[WatermelonRat]

28. The "Global Firepower" rankings takes a lot more into consideration than number of troops.

North Korea has a lot of people in their military (about a third of their population) but they don't have much in the way of technology, equipment, and logistics.

[pangaia]

20. Right... Since they know how much

we love showing how big ours is all over the world, why should they bother.

[ballyhoo]

16. Exactly. The US is approximately

broke and needs to somehow return middle class jobs to the middle class at their former rates of pay. Let Europe pitch in a little more, although if Scotland vacates the UK and the UK has to pay their existent debts, then the UK won't be able to chip in much for the defense of Poland.

[okaawhatever]

35. I don't know much about the Scotland situation, but I do know England said they would guarantee the

debt, not pay it directly. I guess as long as Scotland doesn't go belly up England and Wales won't have to pay.

[ballyhoo]

36. But can Scotland continue to accept and use the pound? Last thing I read both Scotland and the UK

think they beat the other in the negotiations.

[okaawhatever]

37. That I couldn't answer. I just remember reading an article that referred to UK guaranteeing the debt

Sorry, I haven't kept up.

[ballyhoo]

38. NP I keep up with stuff because I am worried about 2014.

ddddd

[Veruca Salt]

40. This.

I still am for the US pulling out of Europe entirely to save the money from those military bases. I know it won't happen but I can dream.

[treestar]

7. When it starts to feel a little dangerous

The Evil US isn't so bad after all.

Though the Poles I understand have never been US bashers as a nation.

[Adrahil]

9. Quite correct... the Poles have generally been very pro-US in the post-Soviet era. NT

[Ash_F]

44. "You forgot Poland!"

[Gore1FL]

8. No thanks, Poland

We have 66,000 troops in Europe, naval forces in nearby waters, and fleets of bombers with worldwide reach. That's a peace footing.

[jsr]

12. Don't they know how to make their own guns and tanks over there?

[Aristus]

13. Aw Goddammit, Poland!

Don't encourage the crooks in the American war industries!

Get up off your lazy asses and defend your own territory!...

[CFLDem]

14. Uh huh

And when they do get off of their asses and inadvertently start a war, what will you say then?

The benefit of being the defender of Europe is that we have more control over whether war breaks out or not.

It would be unwise to cede that control.

[Aristus]

15. Don't get me wrong. I'm not an isolationist by any stretch.

But if Poland had asked for an increased American diplomatic presence in Eastern Europe, that would have been better. I would have applauded that. Because it would have internationalized the validity of President Obama's desire for a diplomatic solution.

By asking for a military presence, it feeds the salivating blood-lust of America's right-wing ultra-nationalists who equate the President's desire to avoid bouncing the rubble in bombed-out cities with the attendant slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people with "lack of leadership".

[7962]

19. Thats a very good point. nt

[Aristus]

24. So is mine.

n/t

[7962]

34. Yes, it is.

[atreides1]

26. "...defender of Europe..."

Exactly where is that written? The US is part of the NATO Alliance...not the defender of Europe!

[CFLDem]

29. It's not written

and that's the point.

[dreamstst]

30. Nuh-uh.

The US does not deserve to control other nations.

[Sunlei]

17. Poland needs to increase the size of their own military, use their own citizens and money.

[rickyhall]

21. Why can't the great European Union take care of itself?

I suppose we could sell them some of our nukes, we have plenty don't we?

[DavidDvorkin]

22. Because it's a confederacy, despite the name.

[Owl]

23. Forget it.

[Democracyinkind]

27. Poland could profit territorially from a total collapse of Ukraine.

Although I doubt they are that cynical, it is worth considering. Romania and Bulgaria too.

[dreamstst]

31. There won't be a "total collapse."

There will be an independent, fascist Ukraine (without Crimea), which will be incorporated into the EU, which will be flooded with cheap Ukrainian labor, thereby benefitting European corporate interests.

[Democracyinkind]

32. prophesying is one of life's less prophet-able occupations!

[DeSwiss]

39. NO. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

41. Fuck you Poland, you had better levy some fucking taxes, buy some body bags for your people's remain

sub guns for butter, and get your recruiters beefed up.

I call for Poland to kiss my ass until they pay may fucking taxes, pay our fucking debt, and sign up for our military.

Who the fuck are these people to earmark our blood and treasure for their use?

[Jesus Malverde]

42. I think Dick Cheney was bloviating about that just this week....

One wonders why he's not in prison as he makes the rounds on TV.

[Catherina]

43. On whose gas? An army needs gas to run

Poland imports over 80% of its gas from Russia, as well as Hungary, the Czech Republic (66%) and Slovakia (93%). It’s been like that since the existence of Warsaw block, and it hasn’t changed in 25 years, only increased.

As for the Baltic republics Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, they depend 100% on Russia’s oil and gas exports, and Germany about 35%.

Poland wants to start fracking now. They don't even know how much gas they really have. These people have lost their minds.

Halliburton and Schlumberger are rubbing their greedy little hands in glee.



Impediments to fracking will be removed in the name of national security and Europe will turn into a huge fracking zone, to the detriment of its environment and people so a few oil tycoons can line their pockets. With the exceptions of Germany and France where its people won't tolerate anyone harming their environment but are only too happy to do it to others.




Poland must think the change can happen overnight lol.