Senate Report Concludes No Evidence From Torture Helped Hunt For Bin Laden

[DonViejo]

Source: ASSOCIATED PRESS

BRADLEY KLAPPER – MARCH 31, 2014, 6:25 AM EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — A hotly disputed Senate torture report concludes that waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods provided no key evidence in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to congressional aides and outside experts familiar with the investigation.

The CIA still disputes that conclusion.

From the moment of bin Laden's death almost three years ago in what was America's biggest counterterrorism success, former Bush administration and some senior CIA officials have cited the evidence trail leading to the al-Qaida mastermind's compound in Pakistan as vindicating the "enhanced interrogation techniques" they authorized after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

But Democratic and some Republican senators have disputed that account. They described simulated drownings, sleep deprivation and other such practices as cruel and ineffective. With the release edging closer for the Senate Intelligence Committee's report on interrogations, renditions and detentions, they hope to make a persuasive case.

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/senate-torture-report-examines-bin-laden-hunt

[Nanjing to Seoul]

1. in other news, water is still wet.

[LiberalLovinLug]

33. but but I saw in a movie that water is not wet at all!

Too late. They have already capitulated the propaganda as our friend Dubya put it.

And it was the so-called "liberal elite" in Hollywood that did it. Zero Dark Thirty was based on true events don't cha know.
How many will get their opinion formed already by this small story in a select few online websites in a sea of information that....uh...actually torture did not have anything do do with capturing Bin Laden...or form their opinion from not only the movie itself, but even if they never watched it, all the publicity surrounding it, the lure of the attractive female star character, who would do ANYTHING to safeguard her homeland. Much like Homeland and 24, and the reason why they are/were so popular. ZDT just continued the empirical thinking in America that there is a thing called American Exceptionalism where the US is allowed to go to "the dark side" to protect their interests, but no one else is. And TV and Movies tell them that it works....EVERY F'N TIME.

[MADem]

2. I never understood why they didn't try the "flies with honey" approach, and give them

a comfortable environment, a movie of the week to watch, maybe some ping pong and opportunities for conversation, and introduce a few new "prisoners" to tease the information out of the suspect(s). Those jailhouse confessions sometimes have elements of braggadocio but often the basic elements are accurate.

[Locrian]

4. because that really works (flies with honey)

The purpose of torture is always to MANUFACTURE information to be used to justify aggression.

Hell, the original "torture manual" was titled something to that effect: for the purposes of extracting false confessions to be used as 'evidence' to support an agenda.

[MADem]

5. It's just pure foolishness to me.

About the only time torture might be useful is for information that is immediately verifiable, like "the combination to the safe that holds the code to stop the bomb from exploding" kinda shit. That kind of thing usually happens in movies.

Otherwise, to hell with it.

[riqster]

6. The problem is,

The person being tortured is far more likely to tell you what you want to hear. Their goal is not to answer questions: it is to make the pain stop.

[Doctor_J]

8. Like in Reservoir Dogs

"He'd confess to the Kennedy assassination"

[Deny and Shred]

36. I believe the line is

You beat this prick long enough, he'd admit to setting the Chicago Fire, but that don't make it F@&%ing so.

Adored that film, and couldn't wait for his next one. Wasn't disappointed. The rest? Not so much. Good, just not as good.

So ... info gained from torture isn't reliable. How much was spent to reach the conclusion that's been known for centuries?

[MADem]

17. It's not a problem if you're breaking fingers in front of the safe, though--that's my point.

Well, it's a problem for the guy with the broken fingers, but if he coughs up the right combination, he can make that pain stop.

This is the point I am making--the utility of the process is extremely limited.

Asking nicely isn't going to get that combination. Threats will, and if they don't work, violence will. Not that I'm recommending it as an option, I'm simply pointing out that there is a very narrow strip of circumstances where it might apply. Eleventh hour stuff that is typical in a Bruce Willis or Ahhh-nuld film.

[riqster]

20. Perhaps. I'd like to see some non-Jack-Bauerish examples, though.

Something not in a film, some case where such actions can be proven to have worked in real life.

[MADem]

21. Absent "We need the code or the city is destroyed," I like the hen amongst the foxes routine.

Put your prisoner in a facility that contains people known and unknown to him, and some of 'em are either turned or agents. Then make the food good, the leisure time sufficient, the opportunities for conversation abundant, and see what happens.

[riqster]

22. That is what Israel did to Palestinians. Worked pretty well.

[Locrian]

28. if he coughs up the WRONG combination ...

the pain stops too.

Which if he doesn't KNOW the combination is what he will do: say anything to get it to stop.

I want to see and episode of "24" where they torture the wrong person or get bad info and pull off the cops who are JUST ABOUT to find the real bomb or whatever. Only to be sent on wild goose chase to the WRONG location by bad info.

[MADem]

29. Not in the movies.

They break one finger at a time. Then they try the combo he gives. If it's right, they don't break any more fingers, if it's wrong, well, he's got trouble.

If he doesn't know the combo and they break a bunch of fingers and he's yelling "I don't know," he'll name someone who does, and they start breaking that guy's fingers.

But usually, the script writers work it so that they get the right guy in the first or second attempt. It would be a bit farcical in a sick way otherwise.

[Kablooie]

3. I don't thing they really I expected to get much info.

Republicans just like the idea of torturing people you consider the enemy.
If they could get away with it they would find an excuse to torture Democrats.

[MillennialDem]

13. Republican policies are torture for democrats (and poor republicans as well)

[Doctor_J]

7. They never believed it would. Bush is a sadist and a sociopath

and, being saturated with booze and cocaine most of the time, can probably get a chubby only when thinking of the suffering of others. I think he also liked knowing that he had the power to make people suffer. Cheney and Rummy, being Republican operatives for decades, have been soulless for most of their adult lives.

I am unsure of the current president's reasons for continuing the practice, except that he seems very timid, probably just says and does what the real power brokers tell him to do.

[riqster]

9. Uhmmm, Obama ended the practice.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/175/end-the-use-of-torture/

[reddread]

11. google frogs and firecrackers n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

10. By engaging in torture we are no better than any other criminal

regime in history.

It is just a matter of degree.

[marble falls]

12. Torture doesn't work? Shocked. Shocked. So now we can stop torturing and close Gitmo, right?

[reddread]

14. not till they nab Snowden and find out what he knows

and that fella hiding in the embassy.
then theyll be done with it.
trust em.
they would not lie about things like this.
subcontractors make all things possible/plausible.

[tclambert]

25. Torture works great at TWO things:

Getting people to admit to things they didn't do.

And as entertainment for the sadistic crowd. (Which is sadly quite a lot of people.)

[thesquanderer]

15. It doesn't matter. Torture is wrong regardless.

Articles like this bug me because they imply that torture would have been okay if it had actually worked, that the reason to not torture is that it is unnecessary. How about, the reason to not torture is simply that it is morally wrong?

Things that are wrong are not justified by whether or not there are benefits to be had. There were lots of benefits to slavery, that doesn't make it right.

[Hissyspit]

16. Duh.

[Jefferson23]

18. It would not have fucking mattered if they had achieved ANY credible evidence to get bin Laden.

It is ILLEGAL, period.

[eppur_se_muova]

19. When do they conclude prosecutions are in order ?

*crickets*

[Doctor_J]

24. We moved forward on Jan 20, 2009

possibly because the president was informed some of the criminality would continue whether he liked it or not. I am reasonably sure Bush & Cheney will end up like Pinochet - old, hiding, detested. We can hope

[pragmatic_dem]

39. As soon as Eric Holder finishes spying on the press, i.e. never. nt

[L0oniX]

23. Let's face it. Some people just want to torture people...

and I say find those people and torture them.

[tclambert]

26. Yeah, but they did get 431 confessions for the Kennedy assassination . . .

All from people who hadn't been born yet, so . . . they also got proof of time travel?

[Doctor_J]

31. And 200 more for Jimmy Hoffa

So let's not conclude that the exercise was completely useless!

[OnyxCollie]

35. The Lindbergh baby kidnapping: case closed.

Torture works!

[SamKnause]

27. They are having the wrong conversation

and investigating the wrong thing.

Why was the U.S. allowed to use torture is what should be investigated.

Why have those who allowed torture to be used not been prosecuted ?

Why did the Obama administration stop countries from going after the Bush administration ?

[Deep13]

30. Not that it would matter...

Federal law specifically states that necessity is not a defense to a charge of torture. Even if someone really did discover and twart a ticking bomb through the use of torture, he would still be guilty of a war crime.

[nilesobek]

32. I took the time to read the article...

Seems to me the CIA is saying, "Look, torture works, it doesn't matter what's legal. Let the lawyers sort it out."

Oh, how far my country has fallen. A state sanctioned and run torture program going totally unchecked and spoke of in blase terms. They might be able to fool the American public but the rest of the world will remember.

[pragmatic_dem]

37. there are conservative voices in the democratic party who insist we move past it...

that it's no big deal. old news, we cannot continue to let them bully us. There should have been accountability and punishment for this brutality.

[d_legendary1]

34. Its not Torture if you change the name to

"Enhanced Interrogation Techniques". Just like just gambling on the stock market is known as "investing." Perfectly legal.

[Hulk]

38. Please send a copy of this report to rumsfeld and darth cheney.

Maybe they'd like to read it aloud on fox-nonsense.

[Lars28]

40. Did torture stop with them?

It's not still going on?

[Hulk]

42. Is it still going on?

I don't hear the White House supporting it, whether or not it is continuing. What is going on at Guantanamo may constitute torture, but who do we want to blame for perpetuating that nightmare? I think the White House attempted to close Guantanamo, but the repuKKKes put up enough resistance to thwart any progress on that one.

Do we still torture? Where is it happening today? I'm sorry...I haven't heard of any of it. You don't seem to get the fact that darth cheney and his ilks SUPPORTED torture. They still do. Fox-nonsense pumps purple farts into the balloon that keeps the myth alive that torture actually helped get Bin laden...or actually did something constructive in stopping terrorism.

I'll be watching my threads. Maybe you can enlighten me as to where we are water boarding and stacking naked bodies on top of each other as we have gained fame from the Abu Graib photos.

[maddogesq]

41. See neocon heads explode in 3..2..1...

[Supersedeas]

43. Where is the Corporate media that disseminated what Cheny and Rice fed them?