Putin to join Obama, Merkel at WW2 event in France

[jakeXT]

Source: Reuters

PARIS (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin will meet Western leaders for the first time since the outbreak of the Ukraine crisis when he attends a World War Two anniversary in France next month, the Russian ambassador to Paris said on Thursday.

U.S. President Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel are among those due to attend the June 6 ceremony in Normandy to mark the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings that helped turn the tide of the war against Nazi Germany.

Ambassador Alexander Orlov confirmed Putin's planned attendance in comments to BFM television, after France's president and defense minister both said the Russian leader - accused by the West of destabilizing neighboring Ukraine - was still welcome to come.

"I have told Vladimir Putin, as representative of the Russian people, that he is welcome to attend the ceremony," President Francois Hollande said.

Read more: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA470AX20140508?irpc=932

[jtuck004]

1. Russians put a lot into that war...

Never realized how much until later...


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[dipsydoodle]

2. Red Army lost 8,668,400 soldiers during World War II, according to latest estimates

During the 1941-1945 Great Patriotic War the Red Army lost a total of 8,668,400 of its personnel, which is 1.5 million more than the previously stated official figure, said Alexander Kanshin, head of the Russian Public Chamber national security commission.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/red-army-lost-8668400-soldiers-during-world-war-ii-according-to-latest-estimates-346948.html

[Jesus Malverde]

27. how about the civilian losses?..nt

[dipsydoodle]

29. Indeed

World War II casualties of the Soviet Union from all related causes were over 20,000,000, both civilians and military, although the statistics vary to a great extent largely because these figures are currently disputed. During the Soviet era information on casualties was considered top secret, later in the Glasnost period information on Soviet World War II casualties was published. In 1993 a study by the Russian Academy of Sciences estimated total Soviet population losses due the war at 26.6 million,[1][2][3] including military dead of 8.7 million calculated by the Russian Ministry of Defense.[4] These figures have been accepted by most historians outside of Russia. However the figure of 8.7 million military dead has been disputed by some historians in Russia because it is in conflict with the official database of the Central Defense Ministry Archive (CDMA) which lists the names of roughly 14 million dead and missing servicemen.[5] [6] Some independent researchers in Russia have put total losses in the war, both civilians and military, at over 40 million.[7][8] This article covers the details of the Russian government sources as well as a presentation of sources disputing these figures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union

[Jesus Malverde]

30. Thanks DD

The sacrifices of the soviets in WWII was one of the facts conveniently drilled out of the duck and cover generation. Their fond memories of the cold war, comfort them and provide misguided nostalgia of better times.

[dipsydoodle]

33. You were right to nudge me.

I used the troop figure because my mind was focused on Normandy.

When you've got some time on your hands go into Youtube and search Battle of Kursk - biggest tank battle ever during July 1943. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

[nyabingi]

5. For Nazi Germany and the US at the time of WWII...

...the Soviet Union was considered the main enemy - the only reason we ended fighting against Germany was because they declared war on us after we declared war on Japan. American history holds up WWII as being a great moral and just war but American leaders at the time hated the Soviets just as much as Hitler did (Nazi Germany was being praised in the US for its efforts to squash unions and other groups that were considered anti-business).

It's a shame that the US, even to this day, hasn't abandoned hatred of the Russians even after they sacrificed so much to defeat fascism - a fascism the US, England, and France, sadly, are supporting today in Ukraine.

[jtuck004]

6. Ironic. n/t

[EmilyAnne]

7. Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact? nt

[The Magistrate]

17. You Are Aware, Sir, Of the Hitler-Stalin Pact?

And of its vital importance to Hitler and his plans?

[Cali_Democrat]

19. Not only that

But the US also supplied the UK and the Soviets with weapons and other means of assistance before Pearl Harbor.

[The Magistrate]

20. For That Matter, Sir, During The 'Phony War' Period

The French and English put a good deal of effort into planning ways to attack the Soviet Union in the coming summer, notably air raids against the Baku fields launched from Middle Eastern bases.

[nyabingi]

21. I see you have decided to hound me

regardless of the topic, huh?

You just plan on stalking me and questing to bait and provoke me so you can get my posts hidden?

Not playing that game with you - don't respond to anything else I post in the future.

Thanks.

[The Magistrate]

22. The Guilty Flieth When None Doth Pursue, Sir

It is a legitimate question, and I am surprised you do not simply answer it, yes or no, and perhaps show some understanding of its place in the start of WWII.

As for the rest, there is no percentage in giving orders you cannot enforce.

[NuclearDem]

24. Well that's not revisionist at all.

The USSR didn't fight Germany with the noble goal of destroying fascism. In fact, they were more than happy to sign an agreement that carved up Eastern Europe between the two countries.

The USSR fought back when Hitler broke that agreement, and won because Hitler thought he was going to win a war of attrition with the largest country on Earth.

[The Magistrate]

25. It Also Mis-Reads President Roosevelt's Intentions, Sir

Well before Pearl Harbor we had Navy units operating against German submarines in the North Atlantic, with at least one, the U.S.S. Reuben James, being torpedoed with much loss of life, and further, had Army Air Force units operating from Iceland, in co-operation with an English garrison. There is no question but that President Roosevelt would have had a declaration of war against Germany out of Congress had Hitler not been so obliging. And anyone familiar with the history of the Pacific theater will have come upon much bitter complaint about the primacy being given to building up in the European theater i allocation of resources. Well into 1943, the war against Japan was being fought on a shoe-string....

[JVS]

28. The USSR was probably correct in interpreting the Munich conference as an attempt to direct...

German aggression eastward.

[KoKo]

11. Recommend Graphic: WWII Military Deaths--Allies & Axis...Good reminder for those not aware.

[Xithras]

13. The Soviets won WW2. The United States just kept Germany off-balance and prevented a USSR takeover.

We kept enough German assets off the Eastern Front to make Russia's job a little easier. Historical documents today indicate that, even in the 1940's, Roosevelt and others realized that Russia would defeat the Nazi's on their own. Our involvement simply ended the war a bit faster, and more importantly kept the Soviets from overrunning all of Europe. The U.S. and U.K. did NOT want Stalin to be the only standing military power in Europe when the war was over. The civilian death toll from Stalin's policies being applied throughout Europe would have made Hitler look like a rank amateur.

Imagine Stalin sending all of the French free thinkers to Siberia

[Benton D Struckcheon]

31. Brings back memories of my college world history class,

where I found out that the USSR really won that war in Europe.
My history prof was merciless about blowing up all kinds of misconceptions; he was brutally objective. He told us that Stalin was going nuts with the Allies, wondering when they were going to invade France. Everyone, he said, knew Italy - not to mention North Africa - was a complete waste of time; you could never invade Germany through the Alps. France was the corridor to Germany.
Eisenhower, though, wanted to keep US casualties to an absolute minimum, and so delayed as much as he possibly could. North Africa and Italy were practice for the US generals, to give them combat experience, as most of them didn't have any.
It's weird to think about, but the big part of the war in Europe, the part that really counted strategically, for the US lasted less than a year, from D-Day to the surrender of Germany in May '45.
Another thing I found out from reading UK historians is that there's a lot of resentment re the US not joining until after Pearl Harbor. They felt like they were having to fight all alone against Germany, especially in that period before Hitler's invasion of the USSR, when even Stalin was allied with Hitler.

[pampango]

3. Good that the French did not let current issues affect this historical event.

Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian went further, saying that cancelling Putin's invitation would be a historical insult.

"It is in the order of things that (Putin) should be there," he told BFM.

Next month's ceremony commemorates the troop landings in 1944 that opened the Western Front in World War Two and caught Hitler's forces in a giant pincer movement between the advancing Western allies and the Soviet army in the east.

"It was the landings that led to the Normandy campaign but the campaign would not have been successful without the Eastern front. In these moments of commemoration it is important that all of those who took part should be present," Le Drian said.

[dipsydoodle]

8. Yes

Especially considering that if Hitler has not moved the Panzer divisions from France to Russia the outcome of D Day may well have differed.

In the event Russia too the brunt of that.

[pampango]

15. Certainly true. Stalin wanted a western front and D Day provided it. I am not minimizing either

side. n/t

[dipsydoodle]

4. Moscow demands Austria immediately eliminate damage to memorial of Soviet soldiers in Vienna Source:

Moscow has sent a note of protest to Austria demanding to eliminate the damage inflicted to the memorial to Soviet soldiers in Vienna.

"The note of protest has been sent over this incident to the Austrian Federal Ministry for Europe, Integration and Foreign Affairs demanding persistently relevant Austrian authorities take urgent measures to eliminate the damage, find and punish persons responsible and not allow such incidents in future," the Russian Foreign Ministry posted a statement on its website.

"Taking into account the international legal obligation of Vienna coming from the state treaty on restoring independent and democratic Austria of 1955 and taking into account the repeated character of acts of vandalism, we again urge the Austrian authorities to take appropriate measures to ensure reliable protection of the memorial at Schwarzenbergplatz Square," the document said.

"During the night on May 7, unknown persons desecrated the memorial to Soviet soldiers-liberators at Schwarzenbergplatz Square in central Vienna in Austria," the Russian Foreign Ministry said. "The memorial inscription on the granite cube in front of the monument facade was covered with yellow and blue paint imitating the Ukrainian flag," the statement said.

http://rbth.co.uk/news/2014/05/08/moscow_demands_austria_immediately_eliminate_damage_to_memorial_of_sovie_36532.html

[2banon]

9. Hoping this important ceremonial event

help in some measure toward achieving some level of detente with East-West relations. It might help if the West does more to underscore the significance of their role in achieving victory against the Nazi's.

[onehandle]

10. Being in the same room with Putin diminishes a world leader.

The emerging Soviet Union II should be shunned as long as Putin is in charge.

Reagan fucked us all by not demanding all of their nuclear stockpile when he had them desperate and starving.

Reagan should be scraped off of schools, roads, airports much like Soviet leaders have been in Russia.

[KoKo]

12. And what would that solve in International Relations....Shunning?

and Reagan had them "desperate and starving" so he should have demanded more?

I wonder if you detoured here from another site...or maybe you forgot a "sarcasm" tag?

[NuclearDem]

16. Sure seemed to help bringing an end to apartheid.

[oldandhappy]

14. Putin wants to keep himself up there with other leaders.

His ego is amazing. Someone needs to hold him accountable re statements about pulling back in Ukraine. I have big doubts!

[The Magistrate]

18. No Question, Sir: The Soviet Union Won the War Against Nazi Germany

We all owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to the men and women of the Red Army, and to the people who stood behind them and armed and fed them through the fight.

[MicaelS]

23. We frequently hear about the number of Soviet dead.

Both military and civilian, which is usually quoted as 25 million total dead. With the same statements about the fact that the Soviets "really" won WWII in Europe.

What we seldom hear about is the number of Chinese dead, which was approximately 20 million. Because that would bring up the difficult fact that those Chinese dead were inflicted by the Japanese. And many people these days only want to see the Japanese as victims of the Atomic Bomb, not as perpetrators of mass murder just as bad as the Nazis. People weep tears for the “victims" of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as if the Japanese did nothing to start the war in Asia. The Japanese forced Korean women into sexual slavery as “Comfort Women” where these women were raped as many as 70 times a day for years on end. Everywhere the Japanese conquered, they acted like barbarians toward Allied POWS and civilians. Not just Chinese. The Japanese beat, starved, tortured and executed men and women. They used living human beings as living test subjects in their infamous biological warfare Unit 731.

IMO, the Japanese were just as bad as the Nazis. Many Americans just ignore that fact because it fits their political narrative. To the credit of the German people they have come to terms with what they did in WWII. Some of the Japanese still refuse to accept that what they did was wrong, and that is one of the things that still create tension between China and Japan. Not to mention the Japanese-Korean tensions over the Comfort Women. Americans don't help when we have Conspiracy theorists (on the Left) who want to claim that Roosevelt engineered the whole Pacific War, and that Pearl Harbor was a LIHOP.

[The Magistrate]

26. Very True, Sir: Japanese Behavior In China Was Horrendous

It is largely overlooked, because in our terms China was a backwater theater, but it colors the attitudes of China towards Japan to this day, particularly because the Japanese government has not really accepted responsibility for what was done by Japanese forces during that war. Which, it should be pointed out, had been going on in China for more than four years before Pearl Harbor was attacked.

[quadrature]

32. will Obama join in V-U Day celebrations ...

a years or two from now.
just curious.

(V-U, Russian victory over Ukraine)