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melm00se

(4,974 posts)
Fri May 9, 2014, 08:48 AM May 2014

Pope demands 'legitimate redistribution' of wealth

Source: Associated Press

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope Francis called Friday for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor in a new spirit of generosity to help curb the "economy of exclusion" that is taking hold today.

Francis made the appeal during a speech to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the heads of major U.N. agencies who are meeting in Rome this week.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_REL_VATICAN_UN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-05-09-06-31-28

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pope demands 'legitimate redistribution' of wealth (Original Post) melm00se May 2014 OP
Yay! The Catholic Church is finally going to give up some of its massive, massive wealth to valerief May 2014 #1
Lead by example?? What?? rurallib May 2014 #7
I dunno. Most people would react like me--put your money where your mouth is. valerief May 2014 #9
Most people would see this 840high May 2014 #19
I don't faint at the Pope's words. NOLALady May 2014 #10
The Catholic Church is the largest NGO in the world. Beacool May 2014 #11
Most of the funds for 'Catholic Charities' in the US come from tax funds. The Vatican owns vast Bluenorthwest May 2014 #22
The Catholic Church doesn't own massive, massive wealth. pnwmom May 2014 #21
The Vatican itself does own massive wealth. Bluenorthwest May 2014 #23
Still, this is significant. The Catholic church is influential and this dents and may reverse newthinking May 2014 #30
Things may have changed since 1965, though muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #34
HA! There are so many things about this guy that I like... Firebrand Gary May 2014 #2
A reporter needs to corner Paul Ryan today and ask him his opinion on this. onehandle May 2014 #3
+1 Scuba May 2014 #5
It is my opinion that the are not really practicing Catholics. olegramps May 2014 #6
The Pope Leo XIII who died in 1903? How's that demand going? merrily May 2014 #15
I have not idea what you are trying to convey? olegramps May 2014 #36
They are practising dickthegrouch May 2014 #28
And the catholic Supreme Court Justices rurallib May 2014 #8
That's when they'll finally remember the bit about strict separation of church and state. merrily May 2014 #16
DUzy Nomination /nt dickthegrouch May 2014 #29
Pope 1, Congress 0. n/t Orsino May 2014 #4
^^^^ ^^^^ freshwest May 2014 #17
Oh no, the Pope is a Socialist!!! Beacool May 2014 #12
We're pretty good at redistributing wealth to the rich. mountain grammy May 2014 #13
A tactical alliance with the Pope (as with Paul or Cruz) on certain areas of agreement is not a bad pampango May 2014 #14
Sub-title: "American Catholics Call Pope a 'Socialist', Become Episcopalians." WinkyDink May 2014 #18
Don't governments do that now with the tax they take out of our paychecks? seveneyes May 2014 #20
To be fair, you can read this as him supporting the Piketty ideas that are doing the rounds muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #35
Meanwhile, in Uganda and Nigeria, his Bishops call for genocide of gay people. Francis says nothing. Bluenorthwest May 2014 #24
Keep talking Francis! smallcat88 May 2014 #25
I would like to see him specifically address the wealth of the Vatican in this context. cbayer May 2014 #26
DING DING DING! Cbayer, you're our grand prize winner! rocktivity May 2014 #31
He has not mentioned it, but surely someone will ask him. cbayer May 2014 #32
Notice he says REdistribute, because it didn't belong to the wealthy to begin with. factsarenotfair May 2014 #27
The rabid capitalist aren't going to put up with this IAMWE May 2014 #33

valerief

(53,235 posts)
1. Yay! The Catholic Church is finally going to give up some of its massive, massive wealth to
Fri May 9, 2014, 08:53 AM
May 2014

help the 99%!

No? Oh, well. Same old, same old then.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
9. I dunno. Most people would react like me--put your money where your mouth is.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:22 AM
May 2014

Of course, the believers faint at the Pope's every word, but most people aren't those people.

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
10. I don't faint at the Pope's words.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:46 AM
May 2014

But I can appreciate the fact that he's heading in the right direction.

But that's just me.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
11. The Catholic Church is the largest NGO in the world.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:48 AM
May 2014

The Vatican is mostly a museum and this Pope HAS put his money where his mouth is since his days in Buenos Aires.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
22. Most of the funds for 'Catholic Charities' in the US come from tax funds. The Vatican owns vast
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:43 AM
May 2014

portfolios of stocks, bonds and purely commercial real estate holdings. If they were to simply sell off their extreme high end retail spaces they could give billions to those in need. The art should be left alone. The art is not the center of their wealth. The investment portfolios are the center of their vast wealth and power. They are the largest private holder of Manhattan real estate. They own blocks of Regent Street in London, occupied by banks and luxury retailers.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
21. The Catholic Church doesn't own massive, massive wealth.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:43 AM
May 2014

Individual parishes all over the world own their church property, but they aren't at the disposal of the Vatican to be sold off.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
23. The Vatican itself does own massive wealth.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:46 AM
May 2014

"Bankers' best guesses about the Vatican's wealth put it at $10 billion to $15 billion. Of this wealth, Italian stockholdings alone run to $1.6 billion, 15% of the value of listed shares on the Italian market. The Vatican has big investments in banking, insurance, chemicals, steel, construction, real estate."
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,833509,00.html

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
30. Still, this is significant. The Catholic church is influential and this dents and may reverse
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:21 PM
May 2014

the right wing infiltration into the religion.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
34. Things may have changed since 1965, though
Fri May 9, 2014, 05:22 PM
May 2014

(I was going to say "1.6 billion = 15% of the Italian stock market?&quot

Does anyone know if they've kept that sort of share?

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
3. A reporter needs to corner Paul Ryan today and ask him his opinion on this.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:05 AM
May 2014

Corner all elected Catholic Republicans with this question.

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
6. It is my opinion that the are not really practicing Catholics.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:19 AM
May 2014

The Catholic Church has been the staunch supporter of the working class and was a major factor in organizing unions. Several popes have addressed the problem of wealth distribution. For example Pope Leo XIII in his encyclical "Rerum Novarum" in 1891 stated the basic principle that the right to a living wage was not to be subordinated to the so-called economic laws that only favored the wealthy. It demanded that workers be paid a living wage and the right to organize to achieve these goals.

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
36. I have not idea what you are trying to convey?
Sat May 10, 2014, 04:13 PM
May 2014

Perhaps this will help you comprehend. The Catholic Church was a leader in the organized labor movement. That is totally aside from what other issues that you may have with their doctrines. It is just the fact and several of today's Catholic politicians are in totally opposition to the Church's demands for the working class. I can't comprehend why you would have a problem with the facts.

rurallib

(62,346 posts)
8. And the catholic Supreme Court Justices
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:21 AM
May 2014

ask them if the Kochs should share some of the politicians they own.

mountain grammy

(26,571 posts)
13. We're pretty good at redistributing wealth to the rich.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:56 AM
May 2014

Stolen wages, pensions, homes, the list goes on as the rich get richer off the misery of the working class. Now, let's raise taxes and redistribute some of that back.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
14. A tactical alliance with the Pope (as with Paul or Cruz) on certain areas of agreement is not a bad
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:59 AM
May 2014

thing. There are those liberals who urge a populist alliance with right-wing populists like Paul and Cruz on certain issues.

The Six Principles of the New Populism (and the Establishment’s Nightmare)

1. Cut the biggest Wall Street banks down to a size where they’re no longer too big to fail. Left populists have been advocating this since the Street’s bailout now they’re being joined by populists on the right. David Camp, House Ways and Means Committee chair, recently proposed an extra 3.5 percent quarterly tax on the assets of the biggest Wall Street banks (giving them an incentive to trim down). Louisiana Republican Senator David Vitter wants to break up the big banks, as does conservative pundit George Will. “There is nothing conservative about bailing out Wall Street,” says Rand Paul.

2. Resurrect the Glass-Steagall Act, separating investment from commercial banking and thereby preventing companies from gambling with their depositors’ money. Elizabeth Warren has introduced such legislation, and John McCain co-sponsored it. Tea Partiers are strongly supportive, and critical of establishment Republicans for not getting behind it. “It is disappointing that progressive collectivists are leading the effort for a return to a law that served well for decades,” writes the Tea Party Tribune. “Of course, the establishment political class would never admit that their financial donors and patrons must hinder their unbridled trading strategies.”

3. End corporate welfare – including subsidies to big oil, big agribusiness, big pharma, Wall Street, and the Ex-Im Bank. Populists on the left have long been urging this; right-wing populists are joining in. Republican David Camp’s proposed tax reforms would kill dozens of targeted tax breaks. Says Ted Cruz: “We need to eliminate corporate welfare and crony capitalism.”

4. Stop the National Security Agency from spying on Americans. Bernie Sanders and other populists on the left have led this charge but right-wing populists are close behind. House Republican Justin Amash’s amendment, that would have defunded NSA programs engaging in bulk-data collection, garnered 111 Democrats and 94 Republicans last year, highlighting the new populist divide in both parties. Rand Paul could be channeling Sanders when he warns: “Your rights, especially your right to privacy, is under assault… if you own a cellphone, you’re under surveillance.”

5. Scale back American interventions overseas. Populists on the left have long been uncomfortable with American forays overseas. Rand Paul is leaning in the same direction. Paul also tends toward conspiratorial views about American interventionism. Shortly before he took office he was caught on video claiming that former vice president Dick Cheney pushed the Iraq War because of his ties to Halliburton.

6. Oppose trade agreements crafted by big corporations. Two decades ago Democrats and Republicans enacted the North American Free Trade Agreement. Since then populists in both parties have mounted increasing opposition to such agreements. The Trans-Pacific Partnership, drafted in secret by a handful of major corporations, is facing so strong a backlash from both Democrats and tea party Republicans that it’s nearly dead. “The Tea Party movement does not support the Trans-Pacific Partnership,” says Judson Philips, president of Tea Party Nation. “Special interest and big corporations are being given a seat at the table” while average Americans are excluded.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/05/07-2

If we can work with Paul/Cruz on certain issues, yet keep them at arm's length (or further) on many other issues, we can do the same with the Pope. Or we can reject tactical alliances with either even issues on which we happen to agree, due to their negative overall baggage, in an effort to not dirty our hands and not give them victories that they could use to strengthen their own movements with which we largely disagree.
 

seveneyes

(4,631 posts)
20. Don't governments do that now with the tax they take out of our paychecks?
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:55 AM
May 2014

It sounds like this guy does not get out into the real world very much.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
35. To be fair, you can read this as him supporting the Piketty ideas that are doing the rounds
Fri May 9, 2014, 05:34 PM
May 2014

which has already had the right wing getting defensive:

http://reason.com/blog/2014/05/02/to-remain-infallible-the-pope-should-lis
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2014/04/is-pope-francis-now-preaching-the-inequality-gospel-of-thomas-piketty/

I think this means "a more progressive tax system is needed", and, being the Catholic church, he probably means it worldwide - ie redistribution from developed to developing countries (and that doesn't happen much, at the moment).

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
24. Meanwhile, in Uganda and Nigeria, his Bishops call for genocide of gay people. Francis says nothing.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:50 AM
May 2014

This is a man whose subordinates are supporting genocide and all he thinks to talk about it money. He does not care that his Bishops are calling for murder and asking parents to turn their gay children in to the prisons. He talks about money, but not about his Church's billions.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
25. Keep talking Francis!
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:00 PM
May 2014

A little action married to his talk would be nice. All the same, the more he says stuff like this the more I'm going to enjoy watching the religious right try to dance around it. Dance, hypocrites, dance!!!

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
26. I would like to see him specifically address the wealth of the Vatican in this context.
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:05 PM
May 2014

He is not stupid or naive, and I am sure he knows the potential for rank hypocrisy here if he does not include the Vatican in the group that needs to look at redistribution.

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
31. DING DING DING! Cbayer, you're our grand prize winner!
Fri May 9, 2014, 02:58 PM
May 2014

Last edited Fri May 9, 2014, 04:38 PM - Edit history (1)

I am sure he knows the potential for rank hypocrisy here if he does not include the Vatican in the group that needs to look at redistribution.

What part of "setting a good example" does he not understand?

Jesus said to them, "Surely you will quote this proverb to me: 'Physician, heal yourself!' And you will tell me, 'Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.'

"Truly I tell you," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown."

Luke 4: 23-24

Oh.


rocktivity

factsarenotfair

(910 posts)
27. Notice he says REdistribute, because it didn't belong to the wealthy to begin with.
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:13 PM
May 2014

MANY of the assets now possessed by the upper class used to belong to the lower and middle classes.

 

IAMWE

(9 posts)
33. The rabid capitalist aren't going to put up with this
Fri May 9, 2014, 03:39 PM
May 2014

He will be thrown under the bus, with terrible pictures.

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