One man killed as shell from Ukraine hits Russian border town: reports

[jakeXT]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - A Russian man was killed and two women were injured when shells fired from Ukrainian territory hit two houses in Russia's Rostov region, Russian news agencies said on Sunday, an attack denied by the Ukrainian authorities.

Alexander Titov, a representative of the Rostov regional government, told ITAR TASS news agency that a shell struck two private houses at about 9.20 a.m. Moscow time (1.20 a.m. EDT) in Donetsk, a town of the same name as the city in eastern Ukraine. A Russian man was killed, he said.

"At around 9.20 am Moscow time a shell flew into the town of Donetsk from the Ukrainian side. Two private houses were hit. A Russian citizen was killed," Titov told ITAR TASS.

On Saturday, Ukrainian war planes bombarded separatists along a broad front in the country's east, in exchanges marking a sharp escalation in the three-month conflict.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/13/us-ukraine-crisis-border-idUSKBN0FI09I20140713

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The National Security Council of Ukraine has already declared that Kiev’s troops involved in the operation in the east of the country have nothing to do with the shelling incident.

“Ukrainian troops are definitely not shelling the territory of the Russian Federation. We did not shoot,” said Andrey Lysenko, official representative of the information center of the NSCU.

Authorities in the Rostov region have confirmed the death of a 46-year-old man and injuries to four civilians, including two elderly women.

The man who died in a shell explosion was a father of four. One of the injured women suffered a shell fragment wound in the leg; another woman, reportedly 80-years-old, was shell-shocked in her house across the street from the explosion site.

http://rt.com/news/172404-russian-donetsk-shelled-victims/

[joshcryer]

1. Shelling of Mainila

The Shelling of Mainila (Finnish: Mainilan laukaukset) was a military incident on November 26, 1939, where the Soviet Union's Red Army shelled the Russian village of Mainila (located near Beloostrov), declared that the fire originated from Finland across a nearby border and claimed losses in personnel. Through that false flag operation the Soviet Union gained a great propaganda boost and a casus belli for launching the Winter War four days later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

[Igel]

3. Yesterday's report was even worse.

A group of armed men from the Ukr side allegedly entered Russia and fired back at Ukraine. This constituted a kind of armed invasion. And if the Ukrainian Army persisted, there would be severe repercussions.

Of course, those being fired at *were* the Ukrainian border guards, so Russia said that Ukrainian forces entered Russia to be able to fire at Ukrainian forces.

Meanwhile, a column of armed vehicles and trucks with fighters and ammo crossed the border from Russia to Ukr while the border guards were pinned down.

(The incident that's reported on today happened as the Ukr border post was under bombardment. Again, a large column of tanks and APCs and truckloads of fighters were reported to have passed by while the border guards were under attack. It must be completely coincidental that a few hours later the Lugansk rebels announced that "reinforcements have arrived"--tanks, APCs, artillery, machine guns, and truckloads of fighters with munitions. What makes the news isn't that dozens of tanks and scores of APCs are crossing the border without Russia's noticing. What makes the news is the sabre-rattling and claims. I wonder what we'd say if suddenly 40-50 tanks and 100 APCs wound up in the hands of the Mexican cartels, with reports that they were crossing through US border posts. Would this be taken as meaningless, or that there was some sort of official connivance to get the hardware there. I'll leave aside claims that some of the tanks are T-72, which Ukraine never had, as possible spurious reports. Such claims were made about another tank and proved false as false as the claim by Girkin that Slavyansk is being starved into non-existence--men rounded up and shot, no food, water, electricity in the city, just Ukr troops going around and checking papers.)

[happyslug]

5. German did the same stunt with Poland in 1939, neither Poland NOR Finland were engaged in Civil War

And that is the importance difference. Poncho Villa when he was engaged in fighting with the Mexican Government forces in 1915, ordered his men NOT to fire into the US as he engage such forces in battles alone the US Mexican border. The reason was simple, even Villa knew International Law and that the US was have to do something if his firing hit into the US. Thus Villa avoided it. Now, after these battles, Villa was reduced to his core supporters, and then he did his famous raid into New Mexico. Villa was popular in the US, he had been the sole Mexican leader to support the US intervention into Veracruz in 1914 (Villa supported the intervention more to embarrass the central Mexican Government, then to advance US objectives). Thus Villa did his raid, dressed in Regular Mexican Uniforms to try to force the US to intervene. The Mexican Government was controlled by people that US banks wanted in power, so they convinced the US Ambassador that Villa not Regular Mexican Soldiers had done the raid.

Thus the US intervened to attack Villa not to support Villa as Villa had originally planned. The problem for the US was Villa knew how unpopular a US intervention would be, so he did not really care WHY the US intervened, but that they intervened. Villa was wounded shortly after the raid and he and his men holed up while he recovered, thus the US searched for Villa in vain. Villa in 1919 made a deal with the regular Mexican Government and put down his arms, but he was killed in 1923 while driving his Dodge Pickup (that still exists in the house of the wife he lived with at that time, and the only woman he married in a church).

I bring up Villa, for his actions are more like what is going on in the Ukraine, then what happened in Poland in 1939 or Finland in 1940. Neither Poland or Finland were in Civil War when the alleged "Attack" occurred. It is noted Villa only attacked the US, after the US had abandoned him and blockaded all arms shipments to him. In the Ukraine, no one is accusing no one is saying Putin has abandon the Rebels, so it is more like Villa in 1915 when he was still fighting the central government, not 1916 when he was reduced to his 200 man core.

The Central Government forces, on the other hand, in the Mexican Civil War could buy American Weapons and Ammunition and in one battle electricity to power search lights to defeat a Villa night attack. This was also after the Government of Mexico had started to portray both Villa and Zapata as power hungry nuts because they wanted land reform so peasants could have title to the land their worked on.

As I said, I bring up Villa for his attack on the US is the example to watch for, but Villa did his attack on the US ONLY after he had been defeated in the field in an attempt to FORCE US intervention. As long as he had a sufficient army to maybe win he did NOT attack the US.

Right now, the level of defeat Villa endured in 1915 has NOT yer occurred. The recent defeat may be the first of what is needed to defeat the Russia Speaking Eastern Ukraine, but these are NOT enough for the Eastern Rebels to attack Russia to force an intervention.

It is clearly NOT a Poland in 1939 or Finland in 1940 situation, shells do cross borders in Civil Wars, when they are fought on the border, as Villa did in 1915 during the Mexican 1912 Revolution.

On the other hand, shells from an attacking force accidentally may cross a border (or fired across the border in frustration). Such shelling has occurred in Turkey from Syria and Turkey has NOT intervened into Syria. The same with Russia, if Russia goes in it will NOT be do to some shelling. Putin will go in when the Russian people believe they have to go in to prevent a holocaust. If the Ukraine can keep their army in check and make sure they do NOT do excess harm to the Civilian Population, then Russia will NOT go in.

The problem is the volunteers for the Army tend to be the most radical member of the present government. Moderates tend to be a little slower to enlist, and the Ukraine has NOT implemented a draft, thus the Ukrainian National Guard troops being formed now tend to be the most anti-Russian people in the Ukraine, and thus the people most likely to commit war crimes against Russian Speaking Civilians in the Eastern Ukraine. I have not seen any reliable evidence of such war crimes as of today, but the make up of these newly raised forces forces me to say it is only a matter of time.

[jakeXT]

6. "fight against this like civilized countries do"

«The only way to fight against this like civilized countries do, namely the US and the EU. We should use precision weapons, like Israel, to destroy those who fired this shell (on Russia’s Donetsk)," the lawmaker said.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140714/190914591/Russia-Considering-Surgical-Strike-on-Ukraine---Report.html

[ColesCountyDem]

2. Maybe Dear Vlad is supporting 'The Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight'.

It's interesting that there's no mention whatsoever of the possibility that the rebel forces in Donetsk fired the shell.

[Fred Sanders]

4. Humans do not make for very good shields against high explosives.