Ukraine accuses Russia of shooting down jet

[bemildred]

Source: AFP

A Russian jet has shot down a Ukrainian war plane, Ukraine’s military has claimed, in a dramatic escalation of tensions on the two countries' common border.

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The spokesperson said the incident happened at about 7pm local time.

“A war plane of the Russian armed forces carried out a rocket attack on an Su-25 of the Ukrainian armed forces, which was carrying out missions on Ukrainian territory,” the spokesman said. “Our plane was shot down, the pilot ejected and was evacuated to a safe place.”

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The Russian defence ministry has not commented on the allegation.

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However, rebel forces claimed to have downed two of the jets on Wednesday and another on Tuesday. They have also claimed responsibility for the downing of an An-26 transport aircraft shot down on Monday.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10973212/Ukraine-accuses-Russia-of-shooting-down-jet.html

[Igel]

1. Meh.

Yesterday the big news that wasn't fit to print was a series of home videos of Grad fire from a kilometer or two inside Russia, just outside Gukovo near the Ivaryne crossing. Videos were all labeled, shot from different angles by different people and posted to Russian sites (copied over by the Euromaidan folk because they were sure to vanish), and consistent with the maps of the area. They were also timed to coincide with attacks on the border patrol there.

It's not the first reported incident. It's just the first with all kinds of good circumstantial evidence.

If there is an air attack--that would be hard to prove beyond any doubt--it might not be the first. But Russian border incursions have been happening if not daily then at least every couple of days. Now a helicopter or 6, now UAVs, the occasional jet. On the other hand, the "ATO" slowed down considerably when the Antonov was downed because Ukraine really relies on its air force. A day after they resumed bombings, this was claimed to happen--this time bombing raids slowed down. It allows Russian artillery and armored vehicles to move more freely but also cuts down on their losses, so they can accumulate more strength. In the last day or so instead of being attacked by a tank and a couple of APCs more reports of attacks by groups of 4, 5, 6 tanks and a half dozen APCs have started to appear.

Little green men are also back in evidence around Izvaryne and a couple other border crossings, as well as in Donets'k. Head counts from spotters put them at 300, but the Ukr military puts the headcount at at least 400. They vanished for a while. Some will for sure say that they're just locals using available uniforms, but that has to explain why there were a couple of hundred, then no spottings for months, and now they're back. Did the "locals" just decide to use other uniforms for a while, then take a vote to get them all out of storage?

Still haven't seen Savchenko's side of her arrival in Voronezh reported in the Russian media. Just the "investigative committee's findings"--I'd like to know where they got their info.

[joshcryer]

2. It's basically the first time we can say rebels couldn't have done it.

Other actions were mostly people who could claim that "it was just belligerents, Russia isn't involved, they say so." But that plane couldn't have been shot down without Russian tech, either provided to rebels, or used by Russia itself. You don't give tech like that to rebels. Who knows if a Czech fighting with the fighters as a double agent takes it back. Unless of course it was A2A which of course the rebels most certainly don't have.

[bemildred]

3. Moscow: Kiev allegations that Russian jet downed Ukraine plane absurd

http://rt.com/news/173604-ukraine-jet-downed-absurd/

[jakeXT]

6. ouch...it was enough for molotov cocktails

"You don’t need to be an expert to understand, after looking at bios of (Ukraine’s) current military management, and especially the ‘anti-terrorist operation’, that these people do not have either military education or practical experience of organized planning and use of troops and weapons,” he said.

[bemildred]

7. Russia did not shoot down Ukraine warplane, says Russia U.N. envoy

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Russia did not shoot down a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter plane that was on military operations over eastern Ukraine, said Russia's U.N. ambassador on Thursday, where government forces are fighting to quell a pro-Russian separatist rebellion.

When asked about the incident, Ambassador Vitaly Churkin told reporters: "We didn't do it."

https://in.news.yahoo.com/russia-did-not-shoot-down-ukraine-warplane-says-143712007.html

[bemildred]

4. UPDATE 1-Russia says talks with EU on Ukraine gas supply delayed

(Reuters) - Talks between the European Commission and Russia over the supply of gas to Ukraine have been postponed until next week, the Russian Energy Ministry said on Thursday, as ties between Moscow and Brussels hit a new low.

The ministry said the negotiations on resolving a gas pricing dispute between Russia and Ukraine, which has led Gazprom to cut off Ukraine's gas, were postponed at the request of the European Union's executive.

A spokeswoman for the Commission said it had not confirmed the talks, because they had not fitted into Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger's schedule.

"We are currently looking into possible dates," spokeswoman Sabine Berger said.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/ukraine-crisis-gas-talks-idUKL6N0PS4HV20140717?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=governmentFilingsNews

[bemildred]

5. Russian jets shoot down Ukrainian warplane over Ukraine: Kiev military

"The situation on the border in the zone of the 'anti-terrorist operation' is still very tough. Grad missile systems, heavy artillery and mortar is continually being used. The firing on the border posts and (government) forces is often coming from the territory of the Russian Federation," Lysenko said.

Five Ukrainian servicemen had been killed in the past 24 hours, he said. This would bring to more than 270 the number killed since the government launched an "anti-terrorist" operation in April to crush the rebels.


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A Ukrainian paratroop tactical group deployed at Dmytrivka in particular had come under heavy fire from the Russian side, he said.

In the past 24 hours, the separatists had carried out 27 attacks on army checkpoints and positions of government forces, Lysenko said.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/russian-jets-shoot-down-ukrainian-warplane-over-ukraine-kiev-military/articleshow/38556976.cms?curpg=2

[bemildred]

8. Putin denies Russia to reopen Cuba spy post

MOSCOW: President Vladimir Putin denied on Thursday Russia plans to reopen a Cold War listening post in Cuba as new US sanctions over Ukraine ratcheted up tensions between Washington and Moscow.

Russian broadsheet Kommersant, citing several official sources, reported on Wednesday that Moscow and Havana had agreed in principle to reopen the Lourdes spy base during Putin's visit to the Communist-run island last week.

Putin however denied that Russia was reopening the base set up in 1964 after the Cuban missile crisis saw the United States and the Soviet Union reach the brink of nuclear confrontation.

"That is not true, we have not discussed this issue," Putin told reporters in Brasilia. "According to an agreement with our Cuban friends we shut down our centre. We have no plans to resume its work," he said.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/putin-denies-russia-to/1269584.html

[jakeXT]

9. Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

(CNN) -- A Malaysia Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has crashed in eastern Ukraine, Russian news agency Interfax reported Thursday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/

[bemildred]

11. I'm kind of watching that story, I don't trust it. nt

[jakeXT]

12. I'm reminded of MH370, hacking of European air traffic control, loss of transp over Afghanistan

and other stories. Maybe I'm too much into creative speculation.

13 planes vanish from radars over Europe
As many as 13 planes flying over Europe vanish from radar screens in an "unprecedented" series of blackouts that lasted 25 minutes with claims air traffic control could have been hacked
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/10898385/13-planes-vanish-from-radars-over-Europe.html

NEW DELHI: A Chicago-bound Boeing 777 of Air India on Monday returned to Delhi six hours after taking off from IGI airport as the aircraft suffered a transponder failure just when it was about to cross Afghanistan.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Chicago-bound-Air-India-flight-suffers-snag-back-to-Delhi-6-hours-after-take-off/articleshow/31776979.cms

[bemildred]

13. It may be true, but it will be spun six ways from Sunday too, so I can wait.

Being a commercial craft, there will be better information coming out.

[James48]

14. Reported shot down

Now interfax says the Russians shot down the airliner.


Not good, if true. 295 on that plane.

[PeaceMonger12345]

10. video

I found the video of this accident in RT:

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. That's an earlier Ukrainian plane that was shot down in June

From the YouTube page:

Published on 14 Jun 2014

Forty-nine Ukrainian troops were killed when their military Il-76 transport jet was taken down by local militia forces. The downing of the plane overnight Friday was apparently the biggest single loss of Kiev loyalist forces, which has been waging a military crackdown on defiant eastern provinces for three months.

[SummerSnow]

16. Russia said the Ukrainians did it.

Oh boy.

[Hugabear]

17. Would not surprise me in the least if this were a false flag operation

Conducted by international neo-cons who would love nothing more than to see a good old fashioned war with Russia

[EX500rider]

18. And I bet when you hear hoofs you think "Unicorns!"....lol

[Hugabear]

19. False flag operations have never happened before?

Why is it so much of an impossibility?

[EX500rider]

20. Improbable rather then impossible..

...the rebels have already shot down planes, recent news talks about them getting some serious SAM's, they shot down a large plane the day before.. so most obvious conclusion is they did it.

What's your theory exactly?

Obama orders the CIA to sneak into eastern Ukraine with a tracked soviet SAM launcher, unnoticed, to shoot down a Malaysian airliner with 23 US citizens aboard?
Why?

[KinMd]

21. To divert attention from Lois Lerner, and Benghazi, Alex Jones told me, or was it Glen Beck?