Malaysia Airlines MH17: Missile expert arrested near border, Ukraine government says

[muriel_volestrangler]

Source: Australian Broadcasting Corporation

The Ukrainian government says it has evidence three people were operating the missile launcher that brought down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over rebel-held territory near the Russian border.
...
Authorities in Kiev say two men have been captured near the border on the Ukrainian side, according to reports, one of whom had paperwork indicating he was a missile specialist.
...
Interfax-Ukraine quoted an adviser to the governor of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region as saying the black boxes had been located.
...
However, earlier reports suggested pro-Russian separatists were in possession of the black boxes.

Read more: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-19/ukraine-government-says-missile-expert-arrested-near-border/5608744

---

What the Kiev government is claiming, of course, but ABC is a reputable org.

[jakeXT]

1. Examplary, always have your paperwork ready /nt

[Igel]

13. There's a reason they call them fascists.

At just the most inappropriate time, they ask, "Papers, please."

That's gotta be it.

We'll wait to see if the reports are true. Then again, even UNN has a better track record than RT in things like this.

[groundloop]

2. Rebels claim they'll allow access to crash site, yet the last I heard weren't letting anyone in

IMO they'll allow access..... after they have time to 'sanitize' it of important evidence.

In the linked article President Obama is quoted as saying we have evidence the missile was a SAM-11 which was fired from rebel controlled territory. I'd imagine we have pretty damned solid evidence for the President to go on record with that information. The article also stated that the SAM-11 is technically advanced and would take technicians trained in its use to fire it. It's seeming more and more that Putin has blood on his hands over this.

[n2doc]

5. This is probably how he knows

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025256499

We have very good spy satellites….

[groundloop]

7. Good article.... Not much way to deny that information

[jakeXT]

20. Nato had war games in the Black Sea including commercial aircraft monitoring

"The navy exercises BREEZE 2014 successfully concluded," a Bulgarian defense ministry spokesman said. The Romanian Navy said exercises involved commercial traffic monitoring, reaction to asymmetric threat warnings, anti-submarine warfare and artillery firing

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-nato-romania-drills-idUSKBN0FM1I020140717

[Fred Sanders]

3. Why would someone fleeing a missile attack criminal act keep papers on him that he is a missile

expert?

That would be like an assassin keeping papers on them from Assassins Academy School of Missile Launching while fleeing from the scene of a job, makes no sense, the evidence is contradictory.

Just saying grains of salt are prescribed.

[groundloop]

6. My guess..... Russian military

[LisaL]

8. Why indeed.

Most likely the story is bogus.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. A fair point

It might be that he was a former Ukrainian soldier who they knew had been trained for the system, and they just found his real identity papers. But that's is total speculation on my part. The salt is a good idea.

[ballyhoo]

21. Exactamundo. I think the same as I

originally thought. The perp was a false-flag acting to defer their own problems. It made a deal with someone on the ground to do the deed. Course, I could be wrong. I just see absolutely no reason those who are being selected as shooters would have done this on their own.

[Ghost Dog]

48. Walks like Psyops; Talks like Psyops...

Maybe it's Psyops?

[dipsydoodle]

4. The US Government is also a reputable organisation

and they ONLY get information from Kiev. Jen Psaki made that clear at a press conference in answer to a direct question.

Questions are now being asked in the EU concerning exactly where the US intelligence on the current issue is coming from.

[aceofblades]

10. Can you provide the relevant quotation please?

From Jen Psaki? Just out of my own curiosity. Thanks!

[geek tragedy]

11. "Questions are being asked"

Spin, spin, spin.

[karynnj]

16. Ridiculous - rt has had a lot of fun making fun of Psaki

Her comment was very specific in reference to some specific information -- and you are quoting it months later.

[Stryst]

12. So this was almost definitly a soft target strike

Not matter who fired the missile, it was against a civilian target. And there were EU citizens on board. Is this what will get the UN involved? Or the United States? Because while I don't want to go to war, I definitely don't want anyone thinking it's ok to shoot down civilian airliners. It's evil and criminal when we drone strike targets and kill civilians, but in this case it seems like a civilian target was purposely targeted.

Or to sum it all up... Will this be our generations sinking of the Lusitania?

[JackRiddler]

14. WTF?!

There is no reason to think this at all.

[Amonester]

15. No, the violent dumbass who shot the missile thought it was a military target...

That dumbass and his criminal Komrads all thought they shot down a AN-26 until some of them saw the civilian bodies and the Malaysia Airlines logo painted on the tail debris.

It's only then they all said "OOPS! WE FUCKED UP." (in Russian, mind you).

[Stryst]

17. According to the translation I read

the response was actually "So what, it was probably full of spies."

Regardless, they fired a missile at an unknown craft from an unknown nation. Even if they thought it was a military transport, it could have been anything from humanitarian relief from the UN to support troops from Russia. They didn't know, but they still fired.

[Cha]

18. Exactly, Stryst. I saw on Rachel Maddow's show tonight that some of the Russians who

are most likely responsible for this are saying the bodies on the plane were dead already when they were put on the plane.. to make them look bad. It sounds desperate but then they are.

[ballyhoo]

24. Do you have a link to that? I hadn't heard that. I

don't watch tv.

[IronGate]

33. Here, just for you.

http://mashable.com/2014/07/18/rebel-leader-claims-malaysian-airlines-passengers-already-dead-before-crash/

DONETSK, Ukraine — Bragging on social media about his fighters downing what they thought to be a Ukrainian military transport plane, the self-appointed separatist commander declared: “We did warn you — do not fly in our sky.”

A day later, after it had become clear that the aircraft was not a cargo jet transporting government troops but a Boeing 777 carrying 298 passengers, Igor Strelkov claimed in a weird statement that “not all the people on the plane were dead before it crashed,” insinuating that some were.


In a bizarre post on VK.com, the Russian equivalent of Facebook, Strelkov asserted that corpses strewn about the crash scene in the rural eastern Ukrainian village of Grabovo were “bloodless” and insinuated that Kiev may have deliberately shot the plane down as part of some sinister plan.

Strelkov claimed that he had spoken to "two people who personally collected the bodies immediately after the crash" Strelkov claimed that he had spoken to "two people who personally collected the bodies immediately after the crash" and that they had “stressed that many corpses were ‘entirely bloodless’ — as if their blood had clotted long before the accident.”

[ballyhoo]

36. Thanks. I'll have to verify the

source.

[IronGate]

37. Of course you do.

But why do I get the feeling that you'll somehow find a reason to discount the source?

[ballyhoo]

39. I'm technical. You're pictorial. I want

to know exactly what happened. You? Well.....

[IronGate]

40. The mounting evidence points to what happened,

but, for some reason, you seem to want to ignore it.

[ballyhoo]

43. To you--not to me. A clever false flag

using today's technology can perform wonders. I want to read Jesse Ventura's take on this.

[IronGate]

45. Jesse Ventura?

False flag op?
You're not looking for the truth, you're looking to blame either the US or the Ukraine.

[ballyhoo]

46. Neither....another.

Bye

[IronGate]

47. Yeah, suuuure your not. nt.

[The Magistrate]

53. Invoking Mr. Ventura, Sir, Is A Classic

Very little cries out 'Don't take me seriously, I'm only here to stir the shit!' so clear and shrill as that....

"For me, fishing has been mostly an excuse to drink before noon."

[Cha]

59. I don't even have a tv ballyhoo.. I looked it up online when I saw on DU that Rachel's

show was so compelling last night. I see someone else has provided you with a link.. good!

[ballyhoo]

22. The mitigating factor is the airliner had no business

venturing into prohibited airspace. You come into my yard where I have serious signs on the perimeter, my dogs won't care that you were misdirected by a bad guy into my protected space. I agree with your last statement, though, but not simply for the downing of this airplane. A bunch of calamities are pointing toward war. The bankers have probably already decided.

[IronGate]

23. So now you're blaming the victims for thier own deaths?

[davidpdx]

25. That's exactly what the person is doing

Vomiting Putin's talking points

[IronGate]

29. Here's another icon for your victim blaming:

#implied%20facepalm%20640x496

[ballyhoo]

32. Ego mihi arbitror

[IronGate]

34. Whatever.

Your victim blaming is still worth this,

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. It is abundantly clear it was *not* prohibited air space

Everyone is clear on that. Why you are talking about an alternate reality, I can't tell.

[geek tragedy]

51. Nice scare quotes around 'victims'--this may be the most repulsive, vile, post

I've seen at DU in years.

No different than Holocaust denial.

[The Magistrate]

54. Looks Like We Had A Death Ride Here, Sir

Here is what is on the transparency page of our Mr. Ballyhoo:

1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=787698

Baloney. It's because of Victoria Nuland and her band

of nincompoops actions. Putin was just out riding his hog when the tires in Kiev started burning. He had to do something. Maybe if Nuland hadn't been listening to her neoncon husband Kagan, none of this would have happened. Look at this woman: if she ain't possessed, no one is.

http://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/fuck-you-victoria-nuland-and-fuck-your-whole-miserable-neocon-zionist-family/

( link to an extreme hate site, obviously Anti-Semitic )

2)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=790363


What is the matter with anyone trying to rid a town of

drugged-out gypsies? Have you ever had contacts with gypsies? They are not a savory type.

( endorsement of ethnic cleansing against Roma )

3)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=797508

Whatever has to be done to stop this

by the Right and the Nazis, sir. Some of us care about stuff like this. Some of us don't understand there just might be a conflict when the reporter of the Crimea voting happens to be on a Human Rights Group of Urkaine.


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/05/05/kiev-and-right-sector-kristallnacht-odessa-extreme-graphics/

( links to yet another hate site )

4 )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=798523

Or...he's one of, if not the greatest,

leader of our times. He protects his people wherever they are; he throws financial crooks in jail; he maintains a morality that suits the greatest percentage of his people;, and he likes cats.

( some of that real 'Putin love', including an endorsement of anti-gay legislation in Russia )

And of course, the post above which put all this clear on the public record....

[geek tragedy]

55. Egads, a racist, homophobic, fascist lowlife right here at DU.

But people assure me such folks do not exist.

[The Magistrate]

56. I Know, Sir, And With A Serious Crush On Our Vladimir To Boot....

[geek tragedy]

57. well, that part is understandable, given the rest nt

[Cha]

60. Oh that's too bad..

[Bad Thoughts]

27. Humans aren't dogs

The differences should be obvious.

[Kaleva]

28. The airliner wasn't flying in prohibited airspace.

It was cruising 1,000 feet above it.

"Despite ongoing violence in eastern Ukraine, including the recent downing of two military aircraft, Ukrainian aviation officials had closed the region's airspace only below 32,000 feet in altitude."

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-aviation-20140717-story.html

[ballyhoo]

30. LA Times? Everywhere I've read and every graph I've

seen said they "were" flying into prohibited air space. I can't get to your URL because it's a pay site. I live in LA County and cancelled the Times long ago. However, I will research your statement on other sites where simply technicals are discussed to see if there is merit in your statement.

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. I challenge you to find a single report saying they were in restricted airspace

Here's a few saying they weren't:

He said MH17 planned to fly at 35,000 feet but according to the ATC, there was other traffic at that time, and the ATC ordered the doomed plane to fly at the next best altitude at 33,000 feet, which was above the restricted altitude.

According to Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai, the direction given by the ATC needed to be obeyed since the route was under the ATC’s jurisdiction.

Izham said the route which MH17 flew was located about 100km from the restricted area, adding the ATC was actually the one which ensured whether any aircraft could use the route.

"The distance between the MH17 path and the restricted area was 100km away. The restricted area is located in the southern part while the MH17 path was 100km north from the restricted area," he told a press conference at the Sama-Sama Hotel in Sepang.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/ukraine-authorities/1272552.html

We extend our deepest sympathies to the families and friends of the passengers and crew of MH17. Based on the information currently available it is believed that the airspace that the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/statement-MH17.aspx

As fingers point at Malaysia Airlines for allowing flight MH17 to fly over a war zone, a German weekly news magazine has revealed that Singapore Airlines jets flew over the same eastern Ukraine area 75 times in the past week.

In contrast, MAS planes only flew over rebel-held Donetsk 48 times within the same period, Spiegel Online reported, citing flight tracking website flightradar24.com.

It said Russian airline Aeroflot flew over the area 86 times in the past seven days, Ukraine International Airlines 62 times, and Germany’s largest airline, Lufthansa, 56 times.
...
“In the ranking of the airlines, MAS is at fifth place with 48 overflights… the data shows that the region of Donetsk experienced brisk air traffic,” said Spiegel Online.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/sia-used-same-mh17-flight-path-75-times-in-past-week-says-german-magazine

[ballyhoo]

38. 300m over restricted air space? With a plane of

300 people? Puhleeze.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. And 100km away, horizontally

I take it this means you can't find anything saying they were in restricted airspace. But you should continue to try to find something, if you want to have any credibility.

You're welcome.

[ballyhoo]

44. Oh, I will....

sssssss

[IronGate]

42. You said they were in restricted air space,

and when you were proven wrong, your reply is "Puhleeze"
Weak, really weak.

[geek tragedy]

49. David Irving would approve of your posts here. nt

[The Magistrate]

50. They Seem To Be Taking It In Turns To Be The Fella Perched In The Dunking Booth, Sir

Yesterday it was another one, and today this one....

[geek tragedy]

52. None dare call them fascists, Sir. nt

[Adrahil]

58. Prohibited by whom, exactly?

As far as I know, no recognized authority of any kind declared this to be prohibited airspace.

[NutmegYankee]

61. The flight was not in prohibited airspace.

It was above flight level 320 on an internationally agreed upon flight route. Restricted airspace was below flight level 320 (32,000 ft).

[Sunlei]

19. Thats good they get the Russian military 'launcher management' before they can run back home.

The transponders will keep track of those boxes, property of Malaysia Airlines.

Putin needs to order his military out of there so all the Families can collect the remains of their family members. Putin your 'ground separatists are toast' , you are responsible for their deaths also.