Hamas 'Captures Israeli Soldier' Amid Shelling

[Comrade Grumpy]

Source: Sky News

Hamas' armed wing says it has captured an Israeli soldier, amid an assault on the Gaza Strip that has killed at least 100 Palestinians.

Speaking on a Hamas television station, a masked spokesman, Abu Ubaida, said: "We have captured a Zionist soldier and the occupation has not admitted that." Israel has yet to comment on the claim.

It comes after 13 Israeli soldiers were also killed during the country's ground offensive in Gaza, making it the deadliest day of the recent conflict between Israel and Hamas.

People fleeing the shelling in the northeast Gazan neighbourhood of Shaja'iya described it as a "massacre", with many women and children among the dead.

But Israel's Prime Minister Bejamin Netanyahu vowed to continue the military incursion to secure the safety of those living in the south of the country.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1304262/hamas-captures-israeli-soldier-amid-shelling

---

Also being reported on CNN, no link yet.

This is going to complicate things for the Israelis.

[Rhinodawg]

1. If...if it's true, Hamas just made a bad mistake.

Video Reports on cnn,show the Palestinians population cheering in the streets.

I

[Tetris_Iguana]

3. Yep

Now the bombings will quadruple.

Hamas is a bunch of f-ing clowns and unfortunately the Palestinians are their punchline.

[Rhinodawg]

7. The cheering Palestinians may not like what is about to happen.

Big mistake.

[The Stranger]

14. Are the people on this thread openly supporting the murder of innocent Palestinians

because a uniformed, openly attacking Israeli soldier was captured?

[JDPriestly]

22. Are the Palestinians openly supporting the capture of an Israeli soldier?

Do they cheer when Israelis die?

The whole place is a mess. My prediction is that they will all just fight until the last one stands unless the Palestinians get a leadership that is willing to enforce cease fires and peace agreements, and the Israelis elect a different party to head their government. Personally, I think the Palestinians will have to lead the way. That is simply because I think the Israelis want peace very much. The Palestinians want land. Israel can easily give up land. The Palestinians have to choose peace. That is why the Palestinians hold the key to resolving the situation, and that is why the Israelis will continue to fight ferociously until the Palestinians demonstrate an overwhelming preference for peace over war.

This will take a lot of swallowing pride on both sides.

[NickB79]

26. And if Palestinian civilians DID cheer when an IDF soldier is captured or dies.......???

Does it somehow make the deaths of hundreds of civilians a little less objectionable?

[JDPriestly]

28. All of it is objectionable to us.q

When the Palestinians begin to object to the killings of their own and stop the rockets and stones and harassment of Israeli civilians, then we will get peace negotiations that will gradually resolve the problem and bring what justice can be brought to the situation. I say that not because I think one side is more at fault than the other but because it is the Palestinians who hold the key to building the trust necessary to create peace for themselves and the Israelis.

At this point, moral judgments are impossible because both sides are so terrified and so unable to see the humanity of the other side.

I do not like it, but I think that there will be many more deaths in the days to come. Much more suffering. Alll you can do at this point is pray for peace.

[regnaD kciN]

57. Like all those fruitful peace negotiations that took place…

…over the past few years when the situation was quiet?

[JDPriestly]

62. What do you prefer?

War or peace?

If the negotiations for peace are not fruitful, there will be war.

What do you prefer?

I prefer peace. To get peace, the Palestinians need to show Israel that they can give Israel what Israel wants as long as Israel gives Palestinians what they want.

The Palestinians have failed to establish that they are capable of respecting and keeping a peace should they and Israel negotiate it.

It's very simple.

Israel, on the other hand, has demonstrated a) that they can return prisoners, b) that they can evict settlers and hand over land to the Palestinians, and c) that they can enforce a peace within the borders of Israel, i.e. prevent Israeli citizens from attacking Palestinians or at least arrests Israeli citizens for attacking Palestinians without the direction of the Israeli government.

Palestinians have not demonstrated their capacity to do those three things that are essential to peace. Therefore, since the choice is necessarily between probably lengthy and difficult peace negotiations or war, the Palestinians have chosen war.

[Ash_F]

72. You ignore the horrendous social injustices that are the root of discontent.

Injustices that are matters of policy and institutionalized by the Israeli government.

What you said would not be wrong, in a vacuum, but please explain these stories:

Tariq Abu Khdeir Was Beaten By Israeli Police

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/an-inconveivable-crime.premium-1.484110

[JoeyT]

33. My ancestors openly cheered when they killed settlers that shot at them.

Apparently we deserved our freedom blankets.

[JDPriestly]

41. It isn't a question of "deserving." It's a question of making the most possible of a bad

situation. Do you think that the Jews deserved the concentration camps? How about the Irish deserving famine and slavery? How about Africans deserving slavery?

Do you think that the Albigensians deserved the Inquisition?

How about the Protestants in France? Did they deserve the St. Bartholomew's Day slaughter?

The world is full of injustice.

Usually when injustice is being done, the parties to it are, on the one side, too weak and helpless to do anything meaningful about it. The injustice is done and cannot be undone.

What matters is what succeeding generations do to right the wrongs. And that is difficult. If our think about Palestine. Assume that the Palestinians were wronged. Then look at history and you realize that the Jews in Israel were wronged also for generations and generations.

The solution is not to try to change the past but to try to change the future. To do that, you have to have peace. To have peace you have to have trust.

No. You did not deserve your freedom blankets. Nor did European settlers deserve the British monarchy, the oppression and the wars of religion that most of them were helpless to end.

We really have to work together in this world. Fighting each other over land or past wrongs does not help us to work together. We have to find a balance between remembering and learning from the past and working together in the present for the benefit of all of us in the future.

Sounds corny but it's true.

When you see white people who have been in America a long time, remember that the chances are pretty high that somewhere in their ancestry there is a Native American. Don't judge books by their covers. Americans are in fact a mixed people, a mixture of different races and ethnicities. That is what we have been for generations. We just don't admit it.

[The Stranger]

46. Holy fuck.

Has the latest meme become: "Everyone else committed atrocities. We're no different."

I'm vomiting.

[JDPriestly]

64. The point is to realize that everyone has some injustice they can

point to, but that should not stop them from negotiating peace with others and trying to bring justice as a part of that peace.

Peace is always better for children and families than war. And people are more likely in most situations to progress toward justice in peacetime. The Palestinians and Israelis, both sides need peace in order to have better societies and better lives.

Both the Palestinians and the Israelis have suffered in recent history. The Israelis suffered throughout many centuries before the 20th century. That is a difference. The Israelis were victims so lon and put up with it. They have told the world that they will not be victims now. The Palestinians have been victims since WWII ended. They need peace so that they can stop being victims.

Those individuals who perform small acts of harassment and large acts of murder outside the war theater should be punished by their own governments. Maybe once the Palestinians show a readiness to enforce a peace agreement, one can be established.

The history is helpful to understand that the point of Israel was not to remove Palestinians but rather to create a safe haven for some of the many, many refugees who had no homes or countries after WWII.

The Jews were in a particularly difficult situation because their number included so many orphan children and so many survivors of the NAZI concentration camps. Thus among the Jews were many severely traumatized people.

Compassion is due on both sides. But so is peace. The rockets and other harassment of Israel has to stop before there will be peace. I have explained over and over why it makes sense that the Palestinians will have to make the effort to enforce peace within their people.

It's sort of like racism in the US. African-Americans cannot force equal opportunity or the end to racism on white Americans. White Americans have to choose equal opportunity and an end to racism. One side bears the responsibility because change on that side is the key to ending war in the case of Palestine or ending racism in the case of the United State.

It may or may not be fair, but that is the way it is.

[The Stranger]

74. Stop making excuses.

These are atrocities being committed.

[The Stranger]

45. Answer the question.

Unless your refusal to do so means "yes."

[JDPriestly]

65. I don't think anyone is supporting the killing of anyone.

I strongly support peace. I hoped so that the peace negotiations would help the people on both sides of the table. I am very disappointed that those talks ended in not much progress. I do not want war. I do not want deaths on either side. I do not want people taken prisoner on either side. I want peace negotiations and peace that each side enforces against its own population. I would like to see trade and jobs and religious and ethnic tolerance so that both sides can enjoy living as neighbors as well as together.

[The Stranger]

75. But they really are. They are enjoying the hellish retribution that the Israeli army will unleash

upon innocent people.

They are not hiding this.

You should be ashamed.

[Iggo]

37. Yes.

[Skittles]

48. some of us are sick of BOTH SIDES

they seem to hate each other more than they care about their own children

[Hissyspit]

53. Um, there've been cheering Israelis.

[geek tragedy]

8. Why would the world object to an Israeli

soldier being held prisoner?

You really think that will matter more than hundreds of dead civilians?

[geek tragedy]

5. Oh? Last time Hamas captured an Israeli

soldier things worked out okay for them.

[Recursion]

9. Taking prisoners of war is a bad strategy now?

Most militant forces have found it very effective in the past.

[azurnoir]

13. Not so much with Israel right now

during the search for the 3 Israeli teenagers Israel rearrested a number of the prisoners released in exchange for Gilad Shalit and there was something in the Knesset to prevent any additional prisoner releases in exchange for Israeli's in the future-I'm not sure where that went if anywhere, but suffice it to say such exchanges are not a popular idea right now

[billhicks76]

16. Uh Israelis Cheered Bombings

Remember the CNN journalist who was removed for tweeting what she witnessed. Israelis cheering the bombing of civilians and threatening her to report only the Israeli side with not one "wrong" word they could disapprove of lest they attack her and destroy her car. We should remember that Netanyahu is one evil megalomaniac. He is their version of Cheney. It's sad they don't have a more liberal leader at this dangerous moment in time. It doesn't help that racism flourishes there. What a mess.

[JDPriestly]

23. They don't have a more liberal leader because they are afraid for their lives.

The fact is that each small, tiny act that is aggressive makes the other side feel threatened for its existence. That is why the Israelis immediately and very publicly arrested the young men alleged to have killed a Palestinian. That is why the Palestinians need to make similar gestures -- arrests of those who violate a cease-fire or attack Israel -- in order to set the stage for meaningful peace talks.

Based on the past history of Israel, I believe that when Israelis feel secure and do not fear attacks from the Palestinians, they will after time elect a more liberal, less bellicose government. Perhaps the Palestinians will mature and elect a less bellicose leadership also. Let's hope so.

[billhicks76]

49. Maybe

Im not an expert. I do know that the world all associated us with Bush. They said we picked him and he represented us. But I'll bet they are more divided there and how could anyone trust that Netanyahu represents any group of people. He is a dark soul and you can see it in his eyes. Scary stuff.

[JDPriestly]

63. True. It's a parliamentary system, I think although I think

Netanyahu was elected. Israel is a democracy. Last I checked, Palestinians sit in their Knesset or parliament.

I don't like Netanyahu personally, but the Israelis elect him. I don't think they would if there were peace with the Palestinians. I think that Netanyahu represents a tough military defense and safety for the Israelis. That's as close as they think they can get to peace. At this time, they are regrettably probably right.

[Hissyspit]

54. Yeah, Israel will probably start killing their children now.

[lib87]

2. What a Giant Clusterfluck

[bemildred]

10. +1.

Signed, sealed, and delivered.

[Fred Sanders]

6. One Israeli soldier captured gets wall to wall media, hundreds of kids blown away gets 30 seconds.

The loss of 13 soldiers in a single battle seems to have woken up the crowd to the realities of war.

[lib87]

17. Right?!

If it wasn't for social media, I wouldn't even know there were worldwide protests against the deaths of so many civilian Palestinians.

[Chemisse]

47. There are?

This is the first I have heard of it.

[billhicks76]

18. Funny How That Works

Not a peep from Israelis or Americans about dismembered, massacred Palestinian children but gasps and reflective mourning for 13 soldiers with guns who died. Racism is such a simple thing. If you're skin is light you matter...if its darker you don't. God must have a hard time forgiving this.

[Fred Sanders]

24. Mourning for soldiers trained to kill and accept being killed as part of the job, but only passing

mention of so many more innocents.....the media is plain evil.

[NaturalHigh]

38. You do realize that military service is compulsory in Israel, right?

This kid could be a draftee who never wanted anything to do with all of this. Don't let that stand in the way of your talking points, though.

[Fred Sanders]

39. Israel created mandatory service, the nation is proud of it. The kid was a soldier, do you know he

Was unwilling to serve?

Palestinians have kids too.

My post was about media coverage, by the way, but strawmen comments to avoid the topic are sometimes fun.

[NaturalHigh]

42. The U.S. had compulsory military service too.

Were you as contemptuous of American kids sent to Vietnam against their wills?

[billhicks76]

52. Duh

Being an international student growing up I knew many who were in the IDF. That wasn't my talking point. The same happens here. People mourn 59000 draftees in Vietnam dead but never the 2.5 million Vietnamese who died. It's as if they don't matter. Most of them unarmed civilians and if you have a gun in your hand at least you can defend yourself. The one million dead Iraqs meant nothing compared to a few thousand US volunteer soldiers because once again it has to do with skin color. People were much more reticent having us kill Serbs in the 90s because they were white. It's like a natural gut reaction from White people in this country. Racism is very simple. I don't have talking point by the way so your fear mongering of me having a scripted agenda just because I called out racism reminds me of FOX News crying wolf Everytime they get caught discriminating. What's next? Accusing me of reverse racism in a self-martyred frenzy? I stand by my comment.

[NaturalHigh]

60. Actually, I wasn't even replying to you, so maybe you could come off attack mode for a minute.

I don't deny for a minute that people tend to mourn for whomever they identify with more closely. Skin color, religion, whatever, that's how it works. I'm not accusing you of racism, reverse or otherwise.

[mazzarro]

25. Yes indeed - so appaling that it is so prevalent here in DU -- n/t

[billhicks76]

55. I'm Suprised Actually

Most people here can identify and oppose racism. But when you mention Israel they whine and moan that it's not allowed and will even resort to claiming victimhood and anti-semetism if you step out of line.

[nilesobek]

30. Wars have uncertain outcomes, like competitive sports.

One team may be highly favored over the "underdog," but yet might stumble and lose the game (war). Netanyahu and the IDF are taking big chances with this super-aggressive strategy. I have yet to hear Netanyahu say one conciliatory word. Nor have I heard any from the Palestinian side. Is it media censorship or are both sides believing in their hype?

Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan. We were highly favored to win there too, yet we are leaving with gunshots at our backs, like Vietnam. Israel might declare victory while being shot at on the way out too.

[Fred Sanders]

32. Hamas is a militia, Israel is a heavily armed nation, it is not a symmetrical game.

[nilesobek]

40. Small, heavily armed nations have gone down before.

Its the continental powers like the USA, Russia, China, Australia, who remain, when its all over. Israel can only go on this way so long, before the realities of global demographics and mathematics begin to show effect. Everything is finite, including the world's patience for an unfair regime.

I would have to agree with you though that the statistics clearly favor Israel winning this conflict. That victory could take many ugly forms like further slaughter or even defeat.

[PeoViejo]

50. We were run out of town by a bunch of Afghan Hillbillies

just like they ran out the Soviets and the Brits before them.

[Fred Sanders]

58. Meaning the Hamas militia could overwhelm Israel......please......

[PeoViejo]

59. ?

I don't get your point.

[countryjake]

11. The soldier's name is Shaul Oron

Mohammed Omer's Twitter
https://twitter.com/Mogaza?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freegaza.org%2Findex.html&profile_id=46339623&tw_i=490007625787256832&tw_p=embeddedtimeline&tw_w=301478450936561664


Meanwhile, the more than 400 dead Palestinians, men, women, and children, are barely noted, let alone named by our MSM. At least the NYTimes is attempting to keep track of the slaughter.



The Toll in Gaza and Israel, Day by Day
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/15/world/middleeast/toll-israel-gaza-conflict.html?_r=1

After 13 days of fighting, at least 417 Palestinians and 18 Israelis have died.

Gaza Hospitals Can't Cope by Mohammed Omer ~ Sunday, 20 July 2014 09:39
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/25053-gaza-hospitals-cant-cope

Gaza City, Sunday, June 20 - As Israeli troops push deeper into Gaza, the intense artillery shelling is shaking all corners of Beit Hanoun, Beit Lahiya and Jabalyia. As tank shells hit one family, killing three sleeping children, hundreds of families are fleeing their homes in the dark, under a barrage of missiles from over head.

At Kamal Adwan hospital - around midnight - the 24-hour shift for nurses is more intense than ever. Emergency room and hospital doctors run from case to case, and specialized doctors are constantly called in. Some stay in the hospital, not getting a chance to go home and break their fast or even sleep, during this horrific Ramadan for everyone.

Kamal Adwan hospital is filled to bursting with all types of cases - dismembered human body parts and limbs, and burns to all parts of the body, including bad facial burns on a dead young girl whose two brothers were also killed by an Israeli tank shell while they slept in their bedrooms at Al Nada residential tower. Ambulance crews had to run to dig them out of the rubble.

"It is a girl, not a boy, her name is Walaa," says one of the ambulance crew members.

[azurnoir]

12. Hamas releases soldiers name Israel says he's one of the dead

Hamas says it has captured Israeli soldier in Gaza

Al-Qassam Brigades said during a speech by spokesman Abu Ubaida aired live on Ma'an News that the captured soldier is named Shaul Aron and his military number was *

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=714871


Report: Hamas Military Wing Claims Capture Of An Israeli Soldier

A spokesman for Hamas' armed wing said on Sunday the group had captured an Israeli soldier during fighting in the Gaza Strip.


Derek StoffelVerified account ?@DerekStoffelCBC

Israeli defence reporters saying IDF denies Hamas claim that a soldier was captured. Name used belongs to 1 of soldiers killed. #CBC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/20/hamas-captures-soldier_n_5603977.html

* serial number removed for posting on DU

[red dog 1]

15. IDF saying the captured Israeli soldier is dead may or may not be true

I don't see how Hamas would benefit from saying that they captured an Israeli soldier if he wasn't still alive.

Hamas is a terrorist organization; and so is Netanyahu's Likud Party, IMO.

[billhicks76]

20. Nailed It

All war instigators and profiteers are the real Terrorists.

[JDPriestly]

21. When will sane people on both sides take charge and negotiate and then enforce peace?

[Steviehh]

66. sanity

You could use some. LOL

[JDPriestly]

19. It's war. The Israelis will probably take prisoners in order to have their own bargaining chip.

The Palestinians need to work as hard to establish a dignified peace as they do to try to fight a war in which they are outgunned and outsmarted.

[Comrade Grumpy]

27. The Israelis already have plenty of Palestinian prisoners.

It's war, but it's not just a matter of military might. It's a battle for public opinion, too, both in Gaza and Israel and around the world. Every dead Palestinian kid--and Israel seems to be generating them by the dozens, if not the hundreds--further besmirches and isolates Israel. Hamas doesn't want the the siege, the blockade, and the open air prison that was the status quo ante. The seem determined to get some freedom before they turn off the rockets. We shall see.

[JDPriestly]

31. The Palestinians have a lot of public sympathy at this time. If they were to stop the rockets and

the harassment of Israeli civilians, they would eventually get real peace negotiations and be able to negotiate to enforce the peace among their own people and get Israel to trade land for peace.

Hamas just wants a big fight for the glory. It is not thinking of getting a better life for its people.

If the Palestinians demonstrate the ability to enforce a peace settlement, there will be peace in the area. It isn't a question of who is "right" and who is "wrong" but what is needed in order to build the trust that is necessary to negotiate for peace.

Trust is the key. The Palestinians are not viewed as a trustworthy negotiating party by the Israelis. The Israelis have negotiated peace with others among their very skeptical neighbors. But Palestine is difficult because Palestine has not shown any self-discipline with regard to enforcing peace. The Israelis are very disciplined in their conduct toward their neighbors. If an Israeli citizen breaks a peace agreement, that citizen is prosecuted. The Palestinians do not do that.

That is why the burden falls on Palestine to make peace.

[bravenak]

61. The burden to make peace rests with the mighty.

Not the weak.

[geek tragedy]

43. The Israelis are holding several million

Palestinians prisoner. Some get yard privileges though.

[NaturalHigh]

29. I hope he's treated humanely.

So much for any movement toward a cease fire.

[unreadierLizard]

34. Despite the sympathy for Hamas from DU

Hamas probably will enjoy torturing said soldier. They hate Israelis and want to wipe them off the map and have no compulsion of murdering POW's taken during fighting.

[NaturalHigh]

35. That's what I'm afraid of.

[unreadierLizard]

36. The visceral hate

that Hamas has for Israel extends beyond any kind of land dispute. These people genuinely hate Jews of any age, gender or occupation. They delight in launching rockets into civilian areas and think nothing of using their own people as human shields to gather international sympathy. Which, sadly, DU still buys in to the narrative that Hamas are "freedom fighters".

[Hissyspit]

56. Buying into racist narratives, hunh?

[Hissyspit]

51. Oh, for chrissake...

Israel slaughtered dozens of children last night. They were piling dead children up in the morque because they were running out of room.

Plenty of Israelis hate Palestinians and want to wipe them off the map.

Despite the simplistic black-and-white, good-vs.-evil of some on DU, some of us are NOT fine with bigoted stereotyping of the situation.

[Shoonra]

67. Be glad, Hamas, you're not fighting US Marines ....

Last year the Israelis ransomed an Israeli soldier held by the PLO with more than one thousand Arab terrorists held in Israeli prisons - many of them openly bragging about how they murdered Israeli civilians. The immediate reaction was that many thousands of Israeli soldiers promptly submitted letters making clear that if they were captured, they wanted the govt to make no concessions, release no terrorists, on their behalf.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hamas captured an Israeli soldiers - in fact, considering the magnitude of the militiary operation, capturing only one is a sign of a huge failure. But since Hamas has announced it, the rest of the world can see if Hamas complies with the Geneva Convention. Israel might well adopt a policy of not negotiating until all their men are returned.

If Hamas were at war with US Marines they'd really be screwed; the Marines will launch assaults to retrieve the cold bodies of dead comrades.

[Sunlei]

68. could Egypt please!! open up some of their vast lands next to the gaza strip for a safe place?

why are they doing nothing to open some land for woman and children to stay until this is over?

[SQUEE]

69. Because, just like every other major player in the region,

INCLUDING Israel, dead people are far better tools for demonizing the enemy, the younger the better. both side use the "Palestinians" as fodder and propaganda.

[Sunlei]

70. country of Egypt thinks enough of the Pals to allow tunnels & those missile launchers into Gaza

Perhaps if the moneymen selling/gifting? Hamas very expensive! weapons offered Egypt a couple billion for a 20 mile square of that UNUSED,adjacent to Gaza land?

Would Egypt only provide a place for Pal. woman/children to be safe from the 'war' if there was money to be made?

[SQUEE]

71. The Saudis or Kuwaitis or even UAE could right this minute buy a

Beautiful stretch of land on the Mediteranian, or Red or Arabian Sea, and name it New Palestine, build entire cities, provide schools, desalinization plants, and irrigation infrastructure, but the unifying hate of Israel's "usurpation and displacement" of the refugess is a great distraction for the PTB in the ME.. It serves all the dictators in the region to keep this war going.

[Tetris_Iguana]

73. Bingo

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!