Rebels release train with bodies from downed jet

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By NICOLAS GARRIGA and NICOLAE DUMITRACHE

HRABOVE, Ukraine (AP) — Bowing to international pressure, pro-Moscow separatists released a train packed with bodies and handed over the black boxes from the downed Malaysia Airlines plane, four days after it plunged into rebel-held eastern Ukraine.

With body parts decaying in sweltering heat and signs that evidence at the crash site was mishandled, anger in Western capitals has mounted at the rebels and their allies in Moscow. Their reluctant cooperation will soothe mourning families and help investigators, but may do little to reconcile the East-West powers struggling over Ukraine's future.

Russia's Defense Ministry said Monday it saw no evidence a missile was fired and denied involvement in the downing of Flight 17 — and suggested the Ukrainian military was at fault. President Vladimir Putin spoke out but showed no sign of abandoning the separatists as fighting flared anew near the site of the crash.

President Barack Obama accused the rebels of tampering with evidence and insulting victims' families, warning of new sanctions. Europeans will consider their own sanctions Tuesday.

FULL story at link.



Ukrainian Emergency workers carry a victim's body in a plastic bag at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 near the village of Hrabove, Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine Monday, July 21, 2014. Another 21 bodies have been found in the sprawling fields of east Ukraine where Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was downed last week, killing all 298 people aboard. (AP Photo/Dmitry Lovetsky)



Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140722/eu--ukraine-plane-bdb1bf17bf.html

[Spitfire of ATJ]

1. Sheeze,....way to win hearts and minds.

[billhicks76]

12. Uh Oh!!!

Journalist Robert Parry says his US government sources have stated that the US has satellite video of the anti-aircraft battery being moved. And there's a big problem! It's in the hands of Ukrainian forces in uniform. Intelligence sources said it was probable they were actually Ukranian soldiers and not separatists in disguise. This means they intended to escalate the conflict to draw the West and Europe further in or perhaps indeed they were trying to assassinate Putin whose 'presidential' airliner was along a similar path only minutes apart from the Malaysian airliner. Looks like the conspiracy theory haters shouldn't have jumped to conclusions so quickly and mock alternate opinions. I personally believed it was Russian aligned separatists that made a mistake but it's looking like that was prematurely presumptuous.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. Next we'll hear it was aliens....

[joshcryer]

14. n/m

got carried away, can't stand that kind of response

[Cha]

16. I know the feeling.. I was going to respond to your original post and thank you. but,

I understand why you changed it, josh.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. Gallows humor isn't for everyone.

[joshcryer]

22. be grateful for my edit

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. Yeah,....everyone here knows how fragile I am.

[billhicks76]

31. I Had Friends

On KAL007 and have experienced the anguish firsthand being an international child of a major corporation in Japan. I don't take this lightly and the truth is most important to me not agreeing or finding backslapping political bedfellows. Those with power in Western Ukraine have far right Neo-Nazi ties. It's irrelevant that a Jewish billionaire is the vanguard. No one on either side is trustworthy. Only facts are so when the 'evidence' is shown (and not the Colin Powell type) then we will know. Equating aliens with common cold war tactics is childish to put it politely. People are so easily offended by questioning any narrative sometimes. Questions lead to answers and vice versa. You may be funny but rude doesn't help.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. That picture popped up in a google image search for Malaysian Jet (from the one that vanished)...

BTW: Any time there is a conflict it becomes a magnet for nuts. Bottom line is the country is split between people who want to be part of the EU and people who have ties to Russia. (There was a time when Russia was talking like it wanted to join the EU)

I find it awfully convenient that Putin is claiming he's fighting "Nazis" and then some actual fanatics that fit that description turn up. It doesn't represent the bulk of the people opposing him and he knows it.

On the Western side there is a tendency to want to talk in obsolete Cold War terms as if the Russians are the Red Army.

Then you have Putin who is a dinosaur who never got the memo (like our Republicans) that the world is too connected to play political games like the old days.

Too many players doing all they can to divide humanity to hold onto power and treating the rest of us like we are their personal property.

[billhicks76]

34. I Hate Putin

He is our Bush Sr. And I believe the Bush family and their partners still pull the strings here. I also know Russia had a history of anti-sematism too but it's a fact that Neo-Nazi fascists held powerful positions throughout Eastern Europe. We allied ourselves with them in the cold war to counterbalance the communists much like we supported the mujaheddin in the 70s and 80s and paid for it later. I also agree that the area is being fought over just like you said. I just know not to trust all sides who fight wars to gain power or advance their interests. Our government had proven to be liars just like Putins.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

35. Patton saying after WWII he wanted to keep going to Moscow didn't help....

The USSR told their people we weren't much better than the Nazis and they used the fear of the prior invasion to justify a very expensive fleet of tanks along the East/West border in Germany. The technology advanced on both sides with computer guided turrets that could target lock and fire on the move.

It was all for show and the audience is getting tired of reruns.

ESPECIALLY if it's presented by someone who pines for the good old days when their people and our people would meet over booze and hookers while they conned the rest of us into thinking they were the heroes preventing WWIII.

[billhicks76]

30. Parry Isn't Reputable?

I thought he was. He was right about IranContra when all the media sycophants were repeating the establishment mantra like a bunch of spineless stenographers. He isn't a conspiracy theorist so don't be afraid.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. I just ran into someone last night who claims "the Left" (meaning us) supports Putin....

He heard it on FOX "News". Then, to show his "knowledge" he said he supported the rebels.

I told him just because the media calls them "rebels" doesn't mean they fly the Confederate Flag.

Parry has to compete with the stupid.

[rickyhall]

2. Unreal

I guess the missile blew the plane apart. I suppose some of the passengers may have been alive until they hit the ground. I can't imagine. . .awful. . .

[IronGate]

6. Probably not.

At 33,000' they would've been mercifully dead from hypoxia long before they hit the ground,

[Spitfire of ATJ]

21. They also LITERALLY "got the wind knocked out of them".....

Also the concussion of the explosion and the rapid decompression of that pressurized cabin probably caused an instant blackout like a blow with a hammer.

[IronGate]

24. Correct. nt.

[Fred Sanders]

3. Wait a minute, are these the same monster spawns of Putin, as declared just 3 days ago?

A little dive into the memory hole and all will be forgotten.

[geek tragedy]

4. yes, the ones who refused to turn over the black box for three days, threatened to shoot observers,

and are now literally ripping apart the remaining portions of the airplane in order to prevent an honest investigation.

Earlier, a team of international observers at the sprawling crash site described strange behavior by workers.

"When we were leaving, we observed workers there hacking into the fuselage with gas-powered equipment," OSCE spokesman Michael Bociurkiw told reporters in Donetsk.

He said there was no security perimeter Monday at one of the bigger debris fields, and monitors saw that one of the largest pieces of the plane "had somewhat been split or moved apart."

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140722/eu--ukraine-plane-bdb1bf17bf.html

Oh, and they show no remorse after having murdered 300 innocent souls.

No, nothing will be forgotten, we promise you, we will not let anyone forget

[Fred Sanders]

8. Perhaps they were removing bodies as they "hacked" into the plane parts...who knows, speculation

such as yours is always right just before it is completely wrong.

The flight recorders have been returned and safe passage for a fully loaded refrigerated morgue train has been completed in 3 days.

I remember what people were saying on the weekend, those same people will now pretend to forget as they move on to the next outrage.

[geek tragedy]

9. No, the FACT is that hacking apart the wreckage of this plane is interfering

with a crime scene and hindering future efforts to determine the cause. The only fact-free speculation is yours.

You act as if the thugs who murder those people have been exonerated. Perhaps you wish that their crime will be forgotten, but please rest assured that will not happen, regardless of how much you hope it does.

[Fred Sanders]

10. You created two straw men and outraged yourself by knocking both down....you win.

[geek tragedy]

11. even if true (tis not) better than lacking outrage over the murder of 300 people

kind of like how some IDF cheerleaders don't care about dead Palestinians, because their side killed them

that kind of thing is really appalling.

would you agree?

[Cha]

17. No, you're projecting.

[yurbud]

25. or hoping that some "bodies" might still be alive

[Cha]

19. The Pressure from the International Community must have finally gotten to Putin.. and here we have

someone trying to excuse their behavior.. UnFreakingBelievable.

[IronGate]

5. Yes, those are the same monsters spawns of Pootie Poots. nt.

[davidpdx]

7. Yes it was

grow up

[Cha]

18. I wish you good luck with that advice.

[joshcryer]

15. 3 days.

Would've been cleared and processed by the west in 24-36 hours, at most. I am dead serious.

[Fred Sanders]

23. In a war zone too, while balancing a banana on their Western noses, of course. Wow.

[joshcryer]

28. They're the ones creating a warzone.

They could have called for international support the minute it happened, instead they scoured the site until they could find the black box, allowed looting, and let the bodies rot.

[Bosonic]

26. 200 (not 282) bodies on board train

Head of the Dutch forensics team Jain Tuinder: Train arrived in Kharkiv today with 200 bodies, significantly less than claimed by rebels.

https://twitter.com/bishopk/status/491629731197243392

Dutch forensics team in #Ukraine says train carrying bodies from #malaysianplanecrash #MH17 has 200 bodies on board. Rebels said 282

https://twitter.com/Richardgalpin/status/491629197623042048

[bemildred]

29. Ukraine MPs come to blows while fighting rages in east

Ukraine’s parliament descended into chaos after a politician took issue with criticism of Russia over the MH17 plane crash and accused Kyiv of waging war on Ukrainian people.

The comments came from Mykola Levchenko, from the Party of Regions of former president Viktor Yanukovych. He was pushed off the rostrum by Ihor Miroshychenko of the far-right Svoboda party, and a melee ensued.

The elected deputies did manage to approve a presidential decree calling up more military reserves to serve in the east, where fighting with pro-Russian rebels has continued.

The authorities in Kyiv say several towns including Severodonetsk, with a population of 100,000, have been retaken by government forces after being in separatist hands.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/07/22/ukraine-mps-come-to-blows-while-fighting-rages-in-east/