Court: Florida Can Block Doctors From Asking Patients About Guns

[DonViejo]

Source: TPM

By DYLAN SCOTT Published JULY 29, 2014, 12:35 PM EDT

A federal appeals court ruled on Friday that a Florida law that discourages physicians from asking patients about guns is constitutional, despite doctor warnings that such questions are vital to their work.

The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned a lower court decision that invalidated the 2011 law, advocated by guns rights groups. The law says that "unless information is relevant to patient's medical care or safety or safety of others, inquiries regarding firearm ownership or possession should not be made." It allows for disciplinary action against doctors who violate it.

"We find that the Act is a legitimate regulation of professional conduct," the appeals court wrote in its 2-1 decision. "The Act simply codifies that good medical care does not require inquiry or record-keeping regarding firearms when unnecessary to a patient’s care."

"It is not a physician's business whether his or her patient chooses to exercise their fundamental, individual right to own a firearm," Chris Cox, president of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, said in a statement praising the decision.

-snip-

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/florida-law-doctors-ask-patients-about-guns-appeals-court

[cosmicone]

1. Next time a patient walks in with a GSW

the doctor can refuse to treat for lack of a proper history. Let Rick Scott do the surgery.

Flori-duh indeed

[unblock]

4. "when unnecessary to a patient’s care"

can't be sure, but i'd guess that the law permits gun care discussions when an actual gun wound is involved.

perhaps closing the barn door after the horse is gone, but still.

[IronGate]

9. What person walks into a dr. office with a GSW?

They go to an ER, not a dr. office.
And unless a dr. wants to lose their license, they will treat and report a GSW.

[Mojorabbit]

45. My husband was a doctor and last year he had an old codger

come in with a GSW to the leg. He called an ambulance to come collect him. The patient was pissed off at him for not just suturing him up. It does happen.

[IronGate]

46. But he did make sure the patient was stabilized for transport, right?

He didn't refuse to treat him, am I correct? And, by law, he had to report the GSW to local law enforcement, correct?

Not meaning to sound confrontational, but the poster I was talking was making a ridiculous statement and being a Paramedic, I tend to know things like this.

[Mojorabbit]

47. Of course. I was just making the point that it does happen

that people will show up at the office with all manner of things that would be better suited for the ER. He never refused to treat anyone for any reason in all his 31 years of practice.

[IronGate]

48. I'm sorry, you are correct, but usually the victim/patient will opt to go

to an ER, but if the closest medical help is a DR.'s office, it makes sense that's where they will head.
Tell your hubby to keep up the good work in his honorable profession.

[unblock]

2. this seems pretty silly, given doctor-patient confidentiality.

never mind the old healthcare provider's saw, "all patients lie".

[Arkansas Granny]

3. I don't understand why, if they are so proud of their 2nd Amendment rights, they don't want to share

that information with their doctors. It's almost like they are ashamed to admit to owning one.

[unblock]

5. they don't want a lecture about gun safety.

of course, i would think a doctor could give simply give the gun safety lecture to everyone without asking about gun ownership.

"i can't ask you if you have a gun in the house, so i won't. but gun safety is important to the health and well being of everyone in a household, so i give all my patients a few pointers for avoiding potentially fatal accidents. feel free to stop me at any time...."

[IronGate]

12. DR.'s can give that advice, along with put pamphlets out on firearm safety,

what they can't do is ask about firearm ownership or refuse treatment because a patient refuses to answer the question.

[unblock]

15. i think it's silly all around.

i'm not clear on why such questions are necessary given that you can give the safety lecture without asking or knowing about gun ownership. and i'm very unclear as to why a doctor would refuse to give treatment. does that really happen??

conversely, i'm not clear on why a patient can't simply decline to answer or lie about it.

finally, i'm not clear what the compelling advantage is for the government to be regulating speech here.

[IronGate]

16. This whole ridiculous law stemmed from a Dr.

who asked a patient if they owned any firearms and when the patient declined to answer, the Dr. dropped them and refused to see them again.

[unblock]

17. as if legislatures pass a law every time one single service provider does something objectionable.

[IronGate]

19. It was definitely an over reaction to one dumbass Dr.'s actions.

I had no problem telling my Dr. that I own firearms and that they're stored safely.
I just don't see the big deal in a Dr. asking if any firearms are safely stored, especially if there are children in the house.

[christx30]

10. The first layer of security to not get

your stuff stolen is to tell no one about it.
If I won the lottery, I wouldn't tell anyone.

[Arkansas Granny]

11. Oh, is there a big problem with doctors stealing firearms from patients?

[secondvariety]

43. Apparently.

Lol.

[former9thward]

54. I guess you would have no problem having the government inspect everything in your house.

After all you have nothing to hide right? Nothing to be ashamed of?

[Arkansas Granny]

55. Asking if I have firearms in my house is *NOT* the same as inspecting everything in my house.

[former9thward]

56. Yes, it IS.

[mac56]

58. How is it the same?

[former9thward]

59. It is not the government's business what you have in your house.

If they want to know let them get a judge to order a search warrant.

[mac56]

60. In most cases, a doctor asking a question does not equal a governmental search.

Thinking it does, well, that seems a wee bit paranoid.

[former9thward]

61. Records are made of every answer you give.

That is not paranoia.

[mac56]

62. Oh geez. Then you better never tell your doctor ANYTHING.

Interpretive dance, that's the way to go.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

50. Yeah. My goofy gun nut sister in law freaked out when our niece took a picture of her gun.

Thinks the government will come and get her guns. Her ex marine fellow gun nut mentor thinks her brother and I know too much about where her guns, ammo, and rice and beans stash are - he says we could be tortured to talk.

But then she posts all over face book about her guns. Her face book photo is her aiming a gun in your face. Her car has NRA stickers all over it and her doors on her house have "guarded by" whatever fucking gun.

But I will talk under torture

Gunnies usually can't resist talking out their guns.

[A Simple Game]

57. So how can owning a gun be a deterrent if no one knows you have a gun?

Shouldn't you put a sign in the front yard saying you have a gun and will use it?

Are you trying to tell us owning a gun causes you to more likely be a victim of a crime than not? Sounds like it.

[Psephos]

22. Perhaps because that info becomes part of their electronic medical record...

...which is required by law to be sent to the Federal government.

Since the NSA revelations, it's not hard to imagine how that could lead to abuse.

Unless you still believe the Federal government really, really Cares (TM) about your privacy and always puts your best interests ahead of its own.

[randys1]

26. I have learned that gun "folks" tend to think VERY differently than maybe you and me...

[IronGate]

28. Differently on this issue,

which doesn't make them wrong.

[randys1]

29. I have wondered about that all day since my you know what thread was closed.

I honestly and sincerely wonder if we agree on most other things and if so to what degree?

[IronGate]

32. Let's find out.

I'm pro choice
Pro equal rights
Pro gay rights
Pro decriminalization of certain drugs
Pro Military to a certain extent
Anti citizens united
Pro Immigration
Pro 2A, but recognize that states are allowed to regulate within Constitutional limits.
Health care is a right, not a priviledge
Pro living wage
There are many others I'm sure we agree on, but my brain is like scrambled eggs right now.

[randys1]

35. So far so good other than the military part, we actually are not suppose to have

a standing army but I see you said to a certain extent.

I believe we probably need a small navy, no army, airforce could pretty much go as the navy has one, and you would want Seals and Rangers I guess, but you could reduce military personnel and equipment by 80%...

And every person in and out of the military who loses a job, hire them building highways and bridges.

[IronGate]

38. I would disagree with the Rangers,

Get rid of the Rangers and keep the Marines Force Recon.
Of course I could be a tad bit biased about the Corps.

[randys1]

39. good one...sure, why not...Of course the hippie in me wants to do away with all

military, and if it werent for Putin I would probably say that given our traditional military force is pretty much useless against Al Qaeda style terrorism.

[IronGate]

40. I agree that the traditional Military is useless against terrorism.

The best way to combat terrorism, is don't become a target of terrorism, things like, don't needlessly invade other countries, don't stigmatize others cultures or try to destroy them, don't back tyrannical, oppressive govts.

And if that fails, send in small special forces teams to cut off the head and let the body wither on the vine, something Navy Seals and Marine FORECON are perfectly suited for.

[TygrBright]

6. Presumably "physicians" includes psychiatrists.

So when some shrink notices the incipient paranoia and violent delusions of a patient who subsequently shoots someone, at least their butts are covered in the malpractice suit.

Their consciences... well, that's not the Law's concern.

sourly,
Bright

[valerief]

7. Well, at least they can ask about bullets. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

8. What can possibly go wrong?

http://articles.philly.com/2014-07-25/news/52031587_1_caseworker-whelan-doctor

[Aristus]

13. Jesus. The stupid burrrrrrrrrns!...

"unless information is relevant to patient's medical care or safety or safety of others, inquiries regarding firearm ownership or possession should not be made." It allows for disciplinary action against doctors who violate it.

Hello, assholes! It is relevant to patient's medical care and safety and safety of others! How fucking stupid are you shitheads?



I'll ask whatever questions I think are relevant to my patient's health, safety, and welfare. And I'll thank Florida for keeping its big state government meddling out of my clinic!

Thank God I live in a sane part of the country. The Evergreen State ROCKS!

[3catwoman3]

33. I work in pediatrics.

I bring up all manner of potential home and personal safety items - pools and other bodies of water, helmets when on wheels, smoke and CO2 detectors, fire extinguishers, sunscreen, insect repellent, alcohol, drugs, and yes - access to guns. I also suggest that parents discuss weapon access with the parents of their children's playmates. And, I tell the kids themselves that if anyone ever offers to show them a gun, they should get the hell out immediately (more politely worded, of course).

Do I have an agenda? Damn right! I don't want any of my patients getting shot/killed.

[Aristus]

37. Good for you.

Once again, stupid politics trumps hard science, including the irrefutable fact that children in homes with guns are at a much higher risk of injury or death than children in homes without.



Pediatric care workers totally rock!...

[onehandle]

14. Florida Man strikes again.

Yes, I'm saying that gun nuts are aberrant anti-social impotent racists.

[Bragi]

18. What about asking if they're part of a well regulated militia?

It's a valid health question, because of someone thinks they're part of a well regulated militia, then they are likely delusional, and hence ought not have guns, because health.

[RobinA]

20. This Strikes Me

as completely unenforceable. "Unless the information is relevant to the patient's medical care or safety" is pretty broad.

[blackspade]

21. WTF.

[wordpix]

23. is FL trying to turn retirees away & decrease property values?

who wants to move to a crazy state like that?

[santamargarita]

24. The next thing is the fascist 5 will declare that guns are people

and bullets are free speech!

[IronGate]

25. Fascist 5?

I love how people throw terms like this around without really knowing the true definition.

Definition of fascism (n)

Bing Dictionary
fas·cism
[ fá shìzzəm ]


1.dictatorial movement: any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism

Not even close.
Asshats? Yes, RW? Yes, but nowhere near fascist.

[randys1]

27. Now now, dont be mean to a SC justice who is in favor of guns...you wont be too

popular around these parts


Oh, I could say so much about the maturity level of people who cling to things...but i best not do that otherwise I gets in trouble

[IronGate]

30. Not in favor of firearms,

you got that wrong, again, they're in favor of the Constitution.

[randys1]

31. right...sure...you betcha

you would think they would learn to read then

[IronGate]

34. Well, I think I'll trust what Pres. Obama says,

most Constitutional scholars/lawyers say, the Democratic Party Platform says over someone on an internet chat board.

[randys1]

36. For me it is as simple as reading the darn thing

[Fearless]

41. Politicians can tell doctors what to do? Wasn't this settled in Row v Wade?

[Psephos]

49. This. n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

42. First theater shooting in Florida will see this one overturned.

Amid cries of "Why didn't that psychiatrist ask if that mentally ill patient had a gun?"

[countryken]

65. Been there; done that

Several months ago we had a theater shooting north of Tampa. Seems this retired cop who was 'carrying' was upset by a guy texting his babysitter during the opening trailers. This ex-cop started the confrontation, then when it escalated to where the guy threw a popcorn box at this geezer, he decided he's 'stand his ground.'

[Ilsa]

44. THIS IS TO INTERFERE WITH CDC STATISTICS GATHERING.

Thom Hartmann discussed it thoroughly on his show a month or two ago.

The NRA wants gun statistics with health, pediatrics, etc to become worthless.

Doctors offices, especially pediatricians, want to provide information about keeping children safe, such as "do you know if your child's playmate's parents have guns in the house?"

This is no different than OB/GYNs asking women if they are being abused by their spouses/partners and if they want help.

[Duckhunter935]

52. where is my tin foil....

[mac56]

63. ^ THIS ^

[Inkfreak]

51. I've never had a doctor mention guns to me. Ever. (nt)

[LonePirate]

53. So the Second Amendment crowd fears the First Amendment, huh?

If the governments run by Republicans regulated guns as much as they regulated doctors, this country would be so much better off than it is now.

[Chemisse]

64. I actually agree with this.

Doctors have no business asking us about whether we use seat belts, have guns, wear a helmet, etc. I find it intrusive to be asked about behavioral habits, unless they have direct bearing on my health (such as smoking and alcohol use).

I don't need a Big Daddy; I need medical expertise. They need to stick to medicine.

[yurbud]

66. "Do you know the caliber of the carrot you were shot with?"

[JohnnyRingo]

67. The doctor can weigh his nuts in his hand and tell him to cough...

...but a gun is too personal.
Crazy world we live in.