Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Stuart G

(38,690 posts)
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:46 PM Oct 2014

Report: Officer Shoots Self While Cleaning Gun in Federal Courtroom

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by defacto7 (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Talking Points Memo:

A court officer reportedly shot himself while cleaning his gun on Friday inside the U.S. Bankruptcy Court building in Grand Rapids, Mich., according to television station WOOD.


The television station cited anonymous sources for its report. A forensics unit was called to the scene to investigate the incident, according to the station.

WOOD also reported the status of the court officer's condition had not yet been released, but he has been taken to a nearby hospital.


Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/grand-rapids-bankruptcy-court-shooting



No I am not making these stories up.
Stuart.
...hit the above link... for yourself...

...and here is another link from the Grand Rapids TV Station that first reported this...:

http://woodtv.com/2014/10/03/report-shooting-at-grand-rapids-police-department/
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Report: Officer Shoots Self While Cleaning Gun in Federal Courtroom (Original Post) Stuart G Oct 2014 OP
........ daleanime Oct 2014 #1
Has anyone notified the Darwin Awards? LongTomH Oct 2014 #2
He needs to die or progressoid Oct 2014 #7
He needs to be rendered incapable of reproduction. nm rhett o rick Oct 2014 #51
I am very unfamilar with guns, have never owned one or held one, except maybe a BB logosoco Oct 2014 #3
Because idiots aren't following basic safe gun handling rules NickB79 Oct 2014 #21
So said idiot should lose his job and not be allowed to carry a firearm in public, right? nt logosoco Oct 2014 #23
Yep, at the very least. NickB79 Oct 2014 #29
When you fire one the burnt powder coats everything. It can be corrosive after a while, jtuck004 Oct 2014 #25
Depends. AtheistCrusader Oct 2014 #30
Thank you for your interesting and informative post! logosoco Oct 2014 #37
Overconfidence or a lack of attention. NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #40
It's like an iPad... Helen Borg Oct 2014 #48
Guns that are used a lot will get gunpowder residue built up which can cause problems. rhett o rick Oct 2014 #52
It will jam if not cleaned after a certain amount of shots Ash_F Oct 2014 #54
Did this officer happen to be named Barney Fife? olddad56 Oct 2014 #4
First should say "Shot Self While Pulling Trigger". Because there is nothing in the act of cleaning jtuck004 Oct 2014 #5
The consequences of having this idiot on the police force can also be severe. L0oniX Oct 2014 #12
I agree. It should say 'shot while playing with his gun'. iscooterliberally Oct 2014 #13
I'll bet he was practicing his quick draw in front of the mirror... JohnnyRingo Oct 2014 #15
Bankruptcy Court is very boring, maybe he should be in a Famly Law Court where all the action is! Dustlawyer Oct 2014 #17
I wonder if the Koch Bros hired him to dissuade the little people from bankruptcy? n/t jtuck004 Oct 2014 #26
I agree, this was most likely CLEARING the weapon, in an un-approved manner. AtheistCrusader Oct 2014 #33
Some of the comments at WOOD TV... Historic NY Oct 2014 #6
Thanks for that tip LittleGirl Oct 2014 #14
Once again today I must ask however does the Onion stay in business rurallib Oct 2014 #8
Bwahaha blkmusclmachine Oct 2014 #9
Was he holding his hands up? L0oniX Oct 2014 #10
Also known as "fucking off at work". JohnnyRingo Oct 2014 #11
If it was a police service weapon, it makes sense that he would do it on the clock. NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #41
if only there had been a good guy with a gun around to prevent this Doctor_J Oct 2014 #16
I didn't know guns were cleaned with bullets in them. Very curious. nt valerief Oct 2014 #18
Yup, El Shaman Oct 2014 #24
would you shoot someone with a dirty bullet? awoke_in_2003 Oct 2014 #42
Bwah! valerief Oct 2014 #43
How many SWAT teams responded? dickthegrouch Oct 2014 #19
Who cleans a loaded firearm?! Earth_First Oct 2014 #20
Who cleans a loaded gun? SoapBox Oct 2014 #32
Film at 11:00 ( El Shaman Oct 2014 #22
Don't you hate it when that happens? shenmue Oct 2014 #27
I saw the report on WOODTV 8. The moran shot himself in the hand. catbyte Oct 2014 #28
Another idiot with a gun... SoapBox Oct 2014 #31
I call bs. obxhead Oct 2014 #34
This happens once in a while yesiwasacop Oct 2014 #35
Seems like I read that packman Oct 2014 #49
I had not heard that but yesiwasacop Oct 2014 #55
Not totally on point but this is a classic tularetom Oct 2014 #36
Shit, that is funny-never saw it before. packman Oct 2014 #50
Just two questions TNNurse Oct 2014 #38
Answert to both ?s yesiwasacop Oct 2014 #39
What a frickin' moran! kath Oct 2014 #44
Let's see, what would happen to ME if I went into a Federal Courtroom and shot off a gun? NBachers Oct 2014 #45
Excellent Point..What would happen to a "regular citizen"? Stuart G Oct 2014 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author defacto7 Oct 2014 #46
:) santamargarita Oct 2014 #53
locking defacto7 Oct 2014 #56

daleanime

(17,796 posts)
1. ........
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:48 PM
Oct 2014

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
2. Has anyone notified the Darwin Awards?
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:56 PM
Oct 2014

progressoid

(50,200 posts)
7. He needs to die or
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:18 PM
Oct 2014

shoot off his balls to qualify.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
51. He needs to be rendered incapable of reproduction. nm
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 01:42 PM
Oct 2014

logosoco

(3,208 posts)
3. I am very unfamilar with guns, have never owned one or held one, except maybe a BB
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:58 PM
Oct 2014

gun. Why is it that we seem to hear about so many accidents when they are being cleaned? Is a gun that dirty? Does having dirt on them affect their performance? How exactly do they get so dirty? And I am just assuming it should be unloaded when it is being cleaned and that people forget to do this?

NickB79

(19,395 posts)
21. Because idiots aren't following basic safe gun handling rules
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:29 PM
Oct 2014

Rule one: always VISUALLY confirm your gun is unloaded.

With a pistol, that would mean removing the magazine and racking the slide to actually see that there is no round in the chamber.

logosoco

(3,208 posts)
23. So said idiot should lose his job and not be allowed to carry a firearm in public, right? nt
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:33 PM
Oct 2014

NickB79

(19,395 posts)
29. Yep, at the very least.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:16 PM
Oct 2014

I'd even go so far as to charge him with a crime for discharging a firearm in public, even though the only victim is himself.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
25. When you fire one the burnt powder coats everything. It can be corrosive after a while,
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:39 PM
Oct 2014

and dirt/grime can affect performance in other ways, not to mention safety. They can be slippery little suckers.

In sporting one is often outside, and firearms get muddy/dirty even if you miss most or all of your shots. You then get to clean your, hopefully unloaded, firearm while the animals stand in the woods and have a little chuckle at your expense.

Even if you don't shoot it, cleaning it periodically helps make sure it functions well when you need for it to.

But people forget to respect these deadly weapons as the tools they are, and often use them improperly, and often with tragic results.

And there ya go





AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
30. Depends.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:24 PM
Oct 2014

Some 90 million gun owners in this country, so 'hearing it a lot' is actually not statistically meaningful, it's incredibly rare.

But 'accidental' (negligent) discharges when cleaning it break down into a couple categories, one of them more likely for police officers, as they are prone to using a particular type of pistol, either Glock or Springfield, of a certain type; Dual Action or Dual Action Only (Glock calls it theirs 'Safe Action', but meh, it's categorically a Dual Action Only system).

1. Actual accident.
2. Some other idiocy (watch this!) that leads to a discharge of the weapon, and then a 'cleaning it' cover story.
3. Suicide or suicide attempt. Suicide often abrogates life insurance, and sometimes people will lay out a can of break free, a dirty rag, and then shoot themselves in the head, as an 'accident', so they get their suicide, and their family still gets the insurance. Sad, but it happens.


The reason I called out those types of service weapons, is that in the process of disassembling a Dual Action Only pistol, often part of the process is pulling back the slide, and then the trigger. So you have to be genuinely sure the damn thing is unloaded, and you haven't absent-mindedly put the mag back in it, accidentally (again, negligently) chambering a round, before pulling the trigger, and having the gun work as advertised.

It's a design philosophy issue that has produced some problems for negligent or very inexperienced users. (which is then a training issue/supervision issue)

logosoco

(3,208 posts)
37. Thank you for your interesting and informative post!
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:43 PM
Oct 2014

So, basically, a person cleaning a gun should really do it away from other people, just to be extra careful. And an armed officer should not be doing it in a public venue, as in this case.

What you have said about the "suicide" events makes sense. It also kind of makes me think of the times I hear about the man "accidentally" shooting his wife while cleaning his gun. It just seems to much like a cover story. I guess I somehow always picture some guy who probably never cleaned anything that his wife asked him.

I try to have an open mind about guns, but it is really hard sometimes. I appreciate it when someone takes the time to explain it without brushing me off as gun grabber! I don't want to take guns away from the people who treat them as they should be treated, I would just like to figure out ways to prevent "accidents". And of course, when they are used maliciously, but that one is past me.

NutmegYankee

(16,268 posts)
40. Overconfidence or a lack of attention.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:37 PM
Oct 2014

The first step to dismantle a standard magazine fed handgun is to unload the hammer mainspring by pulling the trigger. If the gun is unloaded this isn't much of anything. If it's loaded...

Helen Borg

(3,963 posts)
48. It's like an iPad...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 10:00 AM
Oct 2014

It's very annoying when it's not shiny and you can see greasy fingerprints on it

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
52. Guns that are used a lot will get gunpowder residue built up which can cause problems.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 01:47 PM
Oct 2014

If not used the oil can dry up and the working mechanisms get sticky. Step one when cleaning a gun is to unload it. Step two is to verify that it's unloaded. My father in law shot his home furnace with an unloaded gun. He was licensed to carry but couldn't understand why no one wanted to be around him when he got his gun out.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
54. It will jam if not cleaned after a certain amount of shots
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:48 PM
Oct 2014

It depends on the type of weapon. Semi-automatic magazine fed weapons, like the pistols normally issued to police, tend to need more cleaning.

olddad56

(5,732 posts)
4. Did this officer happen to be named Barney Fife?
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 04:59 PM
Oct 2014
 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
5. First should say "Shot Self While Pulling Trigger". Because there is nothing in the act of cleaning
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:03 PM
Oct 2014

that would typically "cause" the gun to fire. Especially since it is usually unloaded during such a procedure.

Second: For the non-gun person, it is a little weird to think someone is going to pull out their firearm in a federal courtroom and "clean" it.

It's possible the reporter misheard, and the gun was fired while "clearing" it - which would be the act of ejecting the live round from the chamber for storage or simply to take it out of a ready-to-fire mode. Or, bored in a courtroom, someone just starts jacking around with their gun. Oops.

Typically with such guns, being semi-automatics, one removes the "clip" that holds other bullets, then holds the grip and pulls back on the "slide". This ejects the live round.

Or, as perhaps demonstrated here, one can just pull the trigger. That effectively removes the live round from the chamber as well, though the consequences can be severe.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
12. The consequences of having this idiot on the police force can also be severe.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:27 PM
Oct 2014

iscooterliberally

(2,913 posts)
13. I agree. It should say 'shot while playing with his gun'.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:30 PM
Oct 2014

Who cleans their gun in a courthouse anyway? That's just weird.

JohnnyRingo

(18,921 posts)
15. I'll bet he was practicing his quick draw in front of the mirror...
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:32 PM
Oct 2014

...while yelling "freeze maggot!"

I recall that Andy caught Barney more than once doing that at the sheriff's station, but he kept his bullet safely in his pocket. If this clown was shot in the leg, it probably happened when he was putting it back in the holster.

I'd lie too.
hahaha

Dustlawyer

(10,505 posts)
17. Bankruptcy Court is very boring, maybe he should be in a Famly Law Court where all the action is!
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:55 PM
Oct 2014
 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
26. I wonder if the Koch Bros hired him to dissuade the little people from bankruptcy? n/t
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:40 PM
Oct 2014

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
33. I agree, this was most likely CLEARING the weapon, in an un-approved manner.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:27 PM
Oct 2014

And is why clearing barrels were invented.

Historic NY

(37,613 posts)
6. Some of the comments at WOOD TV...
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:15 PM
Oct 2014

are well hilarious. WTF cleans a gun while at work, especially at the high risk job at bankruptcy court.

LittleGirl

(8,299 posts)
14. Thanks for that tip
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:30 PM
Oct 2014

I had a good chuckle or two.

rurallib

(62,706 posts)
8. Once again today I must ask however does the Onion stay in business
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:20 PM
Oct 2014

when reality is so much more ironic?

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
9. Bwahaha
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:21 PM
Oct 2014
 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
10. Was he holding his hands up?
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:23 PM
Oct 2014

JohnnyRingo

(18,921 posts)
11. Also known as "fucking off at work".
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:24 PM
Oct 2014

Shouldn't he be cleaning his gun at home on his own time? Makes me wonder what he was doing with it in the bathroom that he had to clean up afterwards. LOL

I'm sorry, but as a gun owner myself, I've never stopped in the middle of the day to suddenly give one a thorough cleaning. It should only need done after each use.

I'll bet he was more likely practicing his quick draw in front of the bathroom mirror but doesn't want to admit it. Dumbass.

NutmegYankee

(16,268 posts)
41. If it was a police service weapon, it makes sense that he would do it on the clock.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 08:42 PM
Oct 2014

Maintenance of the sidearm would be a duty. Why in the courthouse? Good question.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
16. if only there had been a good guy with a gun around to prevent this
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 05:47 PM
Oct 2014

valerief

(53,235 posts)
18. I didn't know guns were cleaned with bullets in them. Very curious. nt
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:06 PM
Oct 2014

El Shaman

(583 posts)
24. Yup,
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:35 PM
Oct 2014

good thing it weren't a grande launcher !!!!

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
42. would you shoot someone with a dirty bullet?
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 11:00 PM
Oct 2014

They might get an infection

valerief

(53,235 posts)
43. Bwah!
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 11:15 PM
Oct 2014

dickthegrouch

(3,295 posts)
19. How many SWAT teams responded?
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:26 PM
Oct 2014

WHY NOT???????
Were they so certain it was a white guy who'd caused the discharge so quickly that there was no need for a SWAT team?
How?
Why can't they be that certain that quickly when a black guy is involved?

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
20. Who cleans a loaded firearm?!
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:27 PM
Oct 2014

The official story seems suspect...

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
32. Who cleans a loaded gun?
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:26 PM
Oct 2014

An idiot...a moron...a dullard...a gomer or goober...a maroon...

Take your pick.

El Shaman

(583 posts)
22. Film at 11:00 (
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:32 PM
Oct 2014

heads up for the limping dude in khakis.


shenmue

(38,519 posts)
27. Don't you hate it when that happens?
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:46 PM
Oct 2014

catbyte

(34,889 posts)
28. I saw the report on WOODTV 8. The moran shot himself in the hand.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 06:55 PM
Oct 2014

Idiot.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
31. Another idiot with a gun...
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:24 PM
Oct 2014

Oh but...I'm sure it's O-bama's fault.

 

obxhead

(8,434 posts)
34. I call bs.
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:28 PM
Oct 2014

This reads like a suicide being covered up as an accident.

Not that suicide reads much better.

 

yesiwasacop

(93 posts)
35. This happens once in a while
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:28 PM
Oct 2014

I am pretty sure all cops are taught to clear their firearm first before cleaning the pistol. Typically - as mentioned by another poster- it is a semi-auto pistol. You first remove the magazine, rack the slide 3/4 times and OBSERVE a clear chamber. Check the magazine well and ensure there is no magazine and check the chamber again. Point pistol in SAFE direction (a clearing tube would be appropriate- not your leg) and pull the trigger and drop the hammer on an empty chamber.

Now since most departments carry glock pistols, one has to pull the trigger in order to dis-assemble the pistol. That is done AFTER clearing it. Does create a problem though.

Anyway- this happens on occasion. On my former dept, I know one dude who did this probably 18 yrs ago (left thigh)We are still hassling him about it. They get a couple accidental discharges per year (usually clearing at the range). Makes for good fun in briefing to bust their chops for oh....a few years at least.

This You-Tube vid is pretty old, but is used fairly often to hopefully train cops not to screw around.

DEA Agent- not graphic


 

packman

(16,296 posts)
49. Seems like I read that
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 11:55 AM
Oct 2014

the guy who shot himself (funny after all these years "I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle this weapon&quot is suing various police dept. who show this video. He feels he is being made an object of derision and reticule.

 

yesiwasacop

(93 posts)
55. I had not heard that but
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:10 PM
Oct 2014

I did just now google it. Looks like in 2012 he lost an appeal on the suit.

This video is constantly shown to recruits for training and in briefings for refresher training.

This is another one shown for training on keeping finger off the trigger-



I dont think she hit the arrestee directly, but it looks like he got a facefull of concrete spalling.

....oh and a well deserved payout from LV PD.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
36. Not totally on point but this is a classic
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:34 PM
Oct 2014
 

packman

(16,296 posts)
50. Shit, that is funny-never saw it before.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 11:57 AM
Oct 2014

TNNurse

(7,005 posts)
38. Just two questions
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:44 PM
Oct 2014

Who cleans a loaded gun? Who cleans a gun inside a court room?

 

yesiwasacop

(93 posts)
39. Answert to both ?s
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 07:48 PM
Oct 2014

The guy who shot himself- I think he is all alone in this.

kath

(10,565 posts)
44. What a frickin' moran!
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 11:36 PM
Oct 2014

NBachers

(17,500 posts)
45. Let's see, what would happen to ME if I went into a Federal Courtroom and shot off a gun?
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 12:59 AM
Oct 2014

Not, of course, that I'm planning to do anything like that . . .

Stuart G

(38,690 posts)
47. Excellent Point..What would happen to a "regular citizen"?
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:05 AM
Oct 2014

Cleaning a gun in a courtroom..or federal building, the thing goes off, for some reason..................and hurts someone else????, not yourself.....

Now what would happen?????????????

Or......................you hurt yourself...Now what would happen to the "regular citizen" who brought a loaded gun in a court building and shot himself/herself while cleaning it.?

So what is going to happen to this cop????????????? or whatever he was..?

My guess is that the so called "system" will take care of him...he will still have his job..
.. ............. .............

Response to Stuart G (Original post)

santamargarita

(3,170 posts)
53. :)
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:39 PM
Oct 2014

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
56. locking
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 10:09 PM
Oct 2014

Local news and does not meet LBN SOP for breaking news. Repost in one of the Guns groups.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Report: Officer Shoots Se...