At least 20 Egyptian Christians kidnapped in Libya
Source: AP-Excite
By MAGGIE MICHAEL
CAIRO (AP) Masked gunmen in central Libya kidnapped 13 Coptic Christians on Saturday after seven were abducted days earlier, said a witness and a priest, in a new wave of assaults against Egypt's Christians working in the war-torn North African nation plagued with Islamic extremists.
Witness Hanna Aziz told The Associated Press that the gunmen in the Libyan city of Sirte went room to room in their residence at 2:30 a.m. Saturday and asked for identification papers to separate Muslim workers from Christians. Aziz says the gunmen handcuffed the Christians and drove away with them.
"They were 15 armed and masked men who came in four vehicles. They had a list of full names of Christians in the building. While checking IDs, Muslims were left aside while Christians were grabbed," Aziz said, adding that he survived simply because he didn't open his door.
"I heard my friends screaming but they were quickly shushed at gunpoint. After that, we heard nothing," said Aziz who said he has three relatives among the hostages. "I am still in my room waiting for them to take me. I want to die with them," he added.
FULL story at link.
Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20150103/ml--libya-4bf9d7667d.html
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)for taking the lead in another disastrous neocon/neolib foreign adventure.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)There's a novel idea.
Igel
(35,268 posts)Not that they're the first group to do this. They're just scattered from Ache in SE Asia to NW Africa.
Mustn't see any connection.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Libya was a quiet, fairly prosperous country ruled by an eccentric dictator.
Now, it barely exists, and the jihadi crazies are running rampant.
"We came, we saw, he died"--Hillary Clinton. Not her best moment.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)As long as they stay quiet, it's all good apparently.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Is Libya better off without Ghaddafi?
Is the region better off without Ghaddafi?
Is the world better off without Ghaddafi?
Those are all debatable questions, I suppose.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)For some people in Libya life was good with Ghaddafi, for others it was not.
My only point is that the people that are abducting Christians now are responsible for their actions. They are not doing it because of "The West".
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)murdered and suppressed would be better off without him
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)They went from a relatively prosperous and stable, if stifling, autocratic regime to a failed economy, a failed state, and rule by militia, many of them jihadist.
It seems to be a familiar pattern with the West in Muslim lands: Overthrow ugly, authoritarian, but stable governments and replace them with chaos: Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Afghanistan. How's that working out?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I am sure it was a paradise for them. I guess it is OK just to oppress and murder some as long as the rest prosper. Kind of like what is happening in Russia and Crimea now. Islam may be a great religion and more power too them but I do not have to agree to the oppression or treatment of females or minorities religions in that culture.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Unfortunately, some would insist on the ideal situation in their minds even though such insistence makes things far far worse than they actually were.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Real quick, given the choice between say, Assad ruling Syria, and Syria dissolving into seven warring states with fluid gang-based "leadership", which is preferable?
You can't just shoot Ghaddafi in the ass until he dies and expect a mature democracy to sprout from the pool of blood like fucking apple trees.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)wow.... I gotta save that.
7962
(11,841 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)They're all robots controlled by the West, not real people.
That's one of the big lessons DU teaches around things like this. (Oy.)
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)When you destroy a county's government and pump weapons into the area you're likely to get negative results.
We complain about it when Russia gives weapons to the Ukrainian rebels yet somehow turn a blind eye when the West does it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The masked gunmen who decided to abduct Christians are human beings capable of exercising judgement.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)Sometimes without the financier there would not be a crime.
Cause and effect.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Much easier for them to say "anything bad that happens abroad is just the fault of my political opponents, because it fits my personal narrative." Demotes them from "human beings responsible for their own actions" to "mere pawns of my enemies," and makes the world comfortingly simple to understand.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)and so did our allies.
We share the blame for unleashing this monster.
840high
(17,196 posts)Dictators are way better than Islamists. Saddam was better than ISIS, Mubarak better than brotherhood and Q'addafi better than the Libyan clusterfuck we have now.
Hope we learn a lesson and not embolden Bashar Assad's extremist opposition.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Not the most progressive of values, I daresay.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)Nothing but chaos and worse conditions for the countries involved especially for women and christians.
Some people think Obama is a dictator. Does that give them the right to tear down the American system?
Should we also tear down all the other dictatorships in the world no matter the cost to the countries involved or our own security?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)If the West hadn't gotten involved, we would either still be where we are now or we would be looking at a brutal crackdown by a loony dictator on innocent people.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)at home and abroad. That's nothing new.
There wasn't enough momentum or popularity for the protesters to topple Gadaffi without western help. The same with Assad.
FWIW I supported the intervention in Libya at the time but now I regret it and think we were mislead.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Enough of them were openly rooting for Qadaffi at the time (not to mention every other authoritarian leader who's been on the receiving end of an uprising). It's kinda nauseating.
There's a whole lot of "this leader doesn't like the US therefore they're on the side of the angels" being flung around with stuff like that.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)nt
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)well, maybe we do.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)question everything
(47,421 posts)The persecution and execution of Christians in Arab Countries.