German rally leader quits in 'Hitler' row

[Surya Gayatri]

Source: BBC News

The head of German "anti-Islamisation" movement Pegida, Lutz Bachmann, has resigned after a photo of him apparently posing as Hitler emerged.

Mr Bachmann stepped down just as tens of thousands of people were expected to rally in the eastern city of Leipzig for the latest Pegida rally.



Prosecutors are investigating insulting comments about refugees attributed to him by German newspapers.

A Pegida spokeswoman sought to play down the Facebook photo as a "joke".

But the German government condemned the photo. Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel told Bild: "Anyone in politics who poses as Hitler is either a total idiot or a Nazi. Reasonable people do not follow idiots, and decent people don't follow Nazis."

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30920086

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"Anyone in politics who poses as Hitler is either a total idiot or a Nazi. Reasonable people do not follow idiots, and decent people don't follow Nazis."

Germany will ultimately crack down on "free speech" whenever it comes to anything that remotely resembles "Nazi" apologies or even allusions.

As has been said so many times, in so many discussions here on DU: "Free speech is always relative--to time, place and historical context".

[jtuck004]

1. "either a total idiot or a Nazi" < I'd like to go on record here. I don't think he's a Nazi. n/t

[Surya Gayatri]

2. Well, that just leaves the other option...

How about 'total idiot', then?

[jtuck004]

4. Don't you just love easy math problems?

[Surya Gayatri]

11. "De deux choses l'une..." as the French say so well! LOL!

(It's either or...)

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Best comment of the year so far.

[Surya Gayatri]

5. Thanks, but which part? NAZI posers being idiots or

"free speech" being, by necessity, a 'relative and contextual' right?

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Yours is true, but the German's is destined for glory.

[Surya Gayatri]

12. "Das ist richtig !"

[Fred Sanders]

6. Why would you ever dress up as Hitler even as a joke? As much a joke as even falsely claiming to

have shot dozens of people in the wake of Katrina, that is how funny it is.

Look at how European media still consider themselves the guardians of truth and democracy, a concept long ago abandoned in America in the flood of political money thst bribed them all into submission.

The humiliation of Fox in Europe needs to cross the ocean.

[Surya Gayatri]

7. Well, as we know, based on the American model,

R/W nutjobs of whatever stripe tend to be somewhat 'challenged' in the humor department.

[Reter]

19. Halloween has become very tasteless the past 20 years, at least in the US

It's sickening sometimes.

[Johnyawl]

8. Bachmann...Bachmann...where have I heard that name before?

[Surya Gayatri]

13. OMG! I didn't even notice the ironic name!

[Sunlei]

10. ....another idiot nazi bites the dust

[pampango]

14. Always good when the 'right wing populists' reveal themselves to be more right wing than populist.

[Surya Gayatri]

16. Looks like a rising political star has

just been shot down--with any luck, for good!

[Sunlei]

18. I just love how the 'internets' sometimes are the greatest equalizer!

[YoungDemCA]

15. From the Wikipedia page of his organziation:

On another occasion, Bachmann had posted a photo of a man wearing the uniform of the US white supremacist organisation Ku Klux Klan accompanied by the slogan: “Three Ks a day keeps the minorities away.”[34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegida#Aftermath_of_Charlie_Hebdo_and_exacerbating_controversies

[Surya Gayatri]

17. Apparently, this publicity-seeking asshat was not one to hide his true colors! LOL!

[Diclotican]

20. Surya Gayatri

Surya Gayatri

You do not fool around with Hitler - either is this man ignorant of what role Hitler had in the modern history of Germany - or he was doing it on purpose -to provoce - and also to show where he stand on a large segment of issues.... Even after 70 years Germany and its popoulation do have some issue with Hitler - and the movement Hitler had in the history of Germany.... After all - even after 70 years - a lot of buldings in downtown Berlin have scars from the War - scars in form of bullet wounds - and clearly damage who have been there standing - as a silent memorial about the war - and what it meant for Germany... And it is not that long time ago - when Germany was still divied in two - and they had a Wall who seperated one pepole in two - and where even after 25 years - the divide is clearly as day - and it wil take at least a generation or two - to make the divide between the two germans a thing of the past...


Everyone who fool around with Hitler, or the nazi ideology is either ignorant - or stupid and I suspect this fellow was both - stupid and ignorant about what Hitler really meant for most germans - who know their history all to well - it is after all tought in School - and it is still thousands of books and documentaries made every year where individuals or segments of history are studied and writen about in all its horrible details..

You can not "play it down" when you dress up as Hitler - if you do - you do it on purpose - it is like dressing up as Benedict Arnold who is known as one of the biggest treators in the US history (Yeah, even I know about him) And go around - and then say "Its a joke" - I guess still a few americans would go balistic of it had happend in the US - even if the whole affair with Benedict Arnold is more than 2 centuries old...

And Hitler are not 200 years ago - it is still a deeep cut in everything Germany are today - and wil be that for as long as Germany as a nation know about what Hitler and the nazi-party did to Germany - and to the rest of Europe...

It is like some in the 700 AD, had dressed up as Atilla the Hun - and was making some really stupid jokes about how Atilla was doing business in Europe... In large parts of Europe - the name Atilla are still not a name you give your children, if you do not want the child to get a hard time... In some other parts of Europe - they use its name, as a proud name who have a whole different meaning than in other parts of Europe... The name is specially popular in parts of Eastern Europe - like Hungary - and Russia who for some reason got easy off compared to the western part, who really got hit by the Huns... And where Atilla instilled fear into pepole who never experienced the Huns centuries after the huns was not a danger to anyone...

But then again - it shows more clearly where Pegida are turning even if they claim they are not extremistic - and just want to defend Europe against what they see as a way of conquering Europe from the inside - by emigrant who are of the muslim faith....

Germany have allready on the books serveral laws who can be used against neo-nazism - they do not need new laws to make sure neo-nazism wil be cracked down on... They can use the laws who was written allready in 1949 - where the western Germany was given its constitution - who had some strict limits to freedom of speech compared to the Weimar Republic, who gave Hitler allmoust a free reign until 1945.. And Germany have the right to defend their nation against enemies of the state - internal as external...

Freedom of Speech is the rule in most of Europe - but it does comes with responsiblity - to do the right things.... And not to offend pepole to mutch... For most pepole, dressing up as Hitler is a verry deep NO-NO - something you just dosen't do..

Diclotican

[Surya Gayatri]

21. So true, Diclotican, only the blink of an eye in

historical terms. You're in Scandinavia, aren't you? Nobody in those countries is about to forget the spectre of Nazism.

I trust the post-war generation in Germany to do the right thing, and relegate these neo-fascist fools to the political side-lines.

[Diclotican]

22. Surya Gayatri

Surya Gayatri

Yes - I live in scandinavia - in Norway to be correct - and we had some experience with the german military boot between 1940-1945 - when we was occupied by Germany - and nazism is a spectre few have forgotten even if it is 70 years ago - and 3 generations between me and the war... The war is still written rather thick books about - and it is still in the backhead of most pepole who know their history so to say... Both my grand-fathers (on both sides) and my foster father (who was 16 when the war started in 1940 - and 21 when the war ended, was fighting on "the right side" against the occupying forces - even if they never told to mutch about it all, my grandfather on my dads side even was put in a prison for a while - but was able to run away - and had to leave for Sweden becouse the germans was not in agreement with his early release from the prison.... My grand fathers on my mothers side also have his share of experience with the germans - but was able to survive it all more or less intact - and had after the war a service in the armed forces for man years.. My foster dad was young when the war started - just a kid of 16 years old - but big for his age - and after beeing fighting for allmoust 2 mounts - he was arrested, and put in a prisoner of war camp - untill the paper work came along - and the germans discovered he was just 16 year sold - then he was told not to do this again - and let go, they even paid for his train ticket back home! - of course he was not holding that promise - when he come home he was doing some mistefs - and destroyed a few truck engines by using sugar - who made his dad angry - mostly becouse it was his sugar rations who was used to destroy the truck engines! - not becouse he did what he did... But after a year - the germans was after him - and he had to flee for Sweden - and then he managed to get to UK, where the provisional guverment of Norway had their offices in London - and was trained as a soldier - and put on many tours where he did a lot, to make sure germans had a not to pleasent time in Norway - sometimes it was a rather smoot ride - but other times he had to flee - and for the most part was able to outrun his opponents rather than making go stealty about it all... He even was part of the norwigian liason between the western allied forces and the russians, who from 1944-45 in fact invaded Norway - and pushed the german forces soutwards.. After the war he had a carrier in the armed forces - untill he had a little accident in a NATO party in Bonn in 1955, the year West-Germany got into NATO - and had a full-flegded army, navy and airforce again... He was good in german, but some german officers who was there, and who had been in Norway under the war - was bragging about what they had been doing - both in Norway and at the eastern front - my dear fosterfather kind of lost it - and the officers ended up in a hospital as my foster father had beaten the living daylight out of them - and had to be restrained by no less than 6 MP soldiers - and was given two options - leave the services with some dignety - or face a trial where could go both ways... He ended up leaving the service - with all honours - and I guess the german officers got some new perspective about the wreath of the former "lesser" pepole.. But as he also told me once - his commanding officer was in full agreement with him - about beating the living daylight out of the officers - but as he told him - You have to restrain yourself - Germany are no longer a enemy of us - they are our friends and we have to let go of the old grugde.... My foster father was not one to let go of a old grugde - and he had a distain for germans - specially his own age group who hold until the summer of 1989 - when he finaly could shake a german hand, withouth woundering about if the hand also had been killing kids or woman under the war... It was a summer/fall of many historical highpoints - and the fact my foster father was able to shake a germans hand was a rather radical step beeing from him... Even if it was not a big leap - from him it was like going to the closest Star and back.. Something I doubt even he could have expected before it happened...

And I do belive germans - at least most of them to do the right things - and relegate neo-facissts fools to the sideline - disgusted by most pepole.. As neo-facism in its different colurs have been shown now and then - and again over the last 40 or so years... At least in Germany they was learning, sadly it is not the same in other parts of Europe - who never really was going true the same prosess as Germany did - even with all its faults - it was a honest way of trying to get rid of the nazis - and all the evil it represented to the world...

Dicloticna

[Surya Gayatri]

23. Never forget...have you recommended the recently

released WWII documentary to those around you?

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jan/10/unseen-alfred-hitchcock-holocaust-documentary-screening

Unseen Alfred Hitchcock Holocaust documentary to be released.
'Disturbing' film, made in 1945 and withheld, was restored by the Imperial War Museum and will screen later this year and in 2015.

[Diclotican]

24. Surya Gayatri

Surya Gayatri

Yes I have - and have seen the movie - as it is on you tube - a nasty movie about the horrible crimes who happened before and under World War two.... It is not a nice movie to look at - and I can understand the sentiment about withholding it from the public - as it show how bad it really was... Even though we know that many movies was released right after the war - as your former President Eisenhower but then Supreme Commander of the allied forces in Europe - in 1944-45 as the western allied forces was encountering camps like Bergen-Belsen - Dachau and other camps who was liberated by the west - and where the prisoners was more dead than alive when the soldiers was arriving - and the former camp guards had run away - in some places left to defend camps who could not be defended - and then arrested - and in some cases - killed by the former prisoners of the camps - but for the most part the prisoners was to weak to do some revenge about the former camp guards - and many was never found guilty of anything - at least not until long after the war - when they was telling some about how horrible the camps had been - and more and more evidence was coming out... Camps like Bergen-Belsen - and Dachau are still there - as museums about the crimes happened there 70 years in the past - even if the camps today looks quiet and calm - you can feel a horrible shaddow lingring around the area - the shaddow of pepole killed here - and the evil who made it posible... And even then, Dachau and Bergen-Belsen, was in all its evil not the worst camps - even if it was horrible enough at the end of the war - the camps in the eastern part of Europe - most known is maybe Auzwitz-Birkenau - Sorbinor-Maidanek, Treblinka and many others - whoes sole purpose was to kill as many as human posible - and to get rid of their remains - even today more than 70 years later - you can dig up ashes from the former inmates of the camps - who was killed right after they arrived at the camps... And as some of the survivors have said - in the camps even the birds was not singing as the shaddow from the death and destruction allmoust made it imposible for birds to sing... And even after 70 years - few birds are indeed singing in the shaddows of the old death camps it is like even the animals born 70 years after the war - know about what was happening there....


The camp movie who Alfred Hitchcock was instrumental in making is indeed a disturbing movie - who tell a horrible saga about what the nazi-regime was all about - and how horrible it was living in the nightmare - and how evil the regime was - to make it so for millions of pepole who was not gulity of anything else than beeing what they was - humans..
The regime survived for 12 years - supported by millions of germans - who gladly all this evil things - even supported it until Hitler was lying dead in the ruins of his Germanica - Berlin - and some even supported his ideals after the war - even if the evidences about the crimes was shown to a lager publicum...

I guess my foster father had his reasons for NOT trusting germans... This was one of them.

Diclotican

[appalachiablue]

25. My father was in the Liberation of Dachau, April 1945 which I didn't know until many years after

he died. He never said much about the army or serving in WWII, and we should have asked him more about it. He spoke once of newly freed Polish prisoners who drank industrial ethol alcohol to celebrate and died. And he was fond of a jeep driver who was an ex-German soldier.

In college when I returned from a European trip with Bavarian souvenirs for him, he gave me several of his military uniform pins, French and German coins, and SS uniform patches from wartime.

Two times I traveled to Germany when young and thought the war was so long ago, my foolishness. A college friend's parents survived Auschwitz, another's mother was a Greek war refugee, and one's father had been in the German Army. We never talked about all this, such stupidity as is the case with youth.

Thanks for sharing interesting stories about your grandfathers experiences. That was a terrible time.

[Surya Gayatri]

27. Thanks for recounting the saga of your grandfather...

[shenmue]

26. Busted!

[Surya Gayatri]

28. Yes, for now...but the spectre of neo-fascism never

really dies--it just goes underground for awhile, only to remerge during later social upheaval.

VIGILANCE!

[pampango]

29. And fascism thrives during economic bad times when scapegoats are in high demand. n/t

[Surya Gayatri]

30. ^^^This!^^^