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Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:00 PM Jan 2015

Rebel leader announces launch of assault on Ukraine's Mariupol

Source: AFP

A top pro-Russian rebel on Saturday announced the launch of a major offensive on Ukraine's government-held port of Mariupol, confirming responsibility for rocket fire that killed at least 20 people.

"Today, we launched an offensive against Mariupol," Russia's RIA Novosti news agency quoted Donetsk separatist leader Alexander Zakharchenko as saying. "This will be the best tribute possible for all our dead."

Read more: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/rebel-leader-announces-launch-assault-ukraines-mariupol-151640496.html#czyDt9F



Earlier : 'At least 20 killed' in rocket attack on Ukraine's Mariupol



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Rebel leader announces launch of assault on Ukraine's Mariupol (Original Post) Bosonic Jan 2015 OP
At last we see Stalin's true agen. . . ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #1
I have said before. If the conflict continues it is inevitable, it is the nature of war newthinking Jan 2015 #5
you seem to have a wee bit of a chicken vs. egg problem. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2015 #8
Only a minority (powerful minority at the moment) want war in Ukraine newthinking Jan 2015 #9
++1000. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #10
I hope they wipe out every last rebel. The Green Manalishi Jan 2015 #22
Russia just trying to keep the peace again, I see. 7962 Jan 2015 #2
I am sure the Putin Duckhunter935 Jan 2015 #3
And this is why crippling Russia is so necessary, so that they can't do much more of this. geek tragedy Jan 2015 #4
yep, now Russia Duckhunter935 Jan 2015 #6
Zakharchenko: Igel Jan 2015 #7
Isn't parading captives in front of cameras like that Heywood J Jan 2015 #11
It does, but the Geneva conventions are ignored now by newthinking Jan 2015 #12
Well, so are wars of aggression, but legality has no place in that part of the world nt geek tragedy Jan 2015 #16
EU mulls emergency meeting over Russia-Ukraine conflict bemildred Jan 2015 #13
Russia's going to carve out its hunk of Eastern Ukraine, and the rest winds up in NATO or NATO-lite. geek tragedy Jan 2015 #15
Russia doesn't want to own it, but they will make sure Ukraine doesn't. bemildred Jan 2015 #17
Russia wants to own it, but not on paper. Ukraine has to figure out how much of its geek tragedy Jan 2015 #18
I don't think Putin cares much about the sanctions. bemildred Jan 2015 #19
I think Ukraine is the new Afghanistan. geek tragedy Jan 2015 #20
Yeah, that's where I've been on it for about a year and a half now, but I keep bemildred Jan 2015 #21
Mariupol: A Strategic And Symbolic Target For Pro-Russian Rebels bemildred Jan 2015 #14

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
1. At last we see Stalin's true agen. . .
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:02 PM
Jan 2015

PUTIN'S true agenda. What better way to garner public support and to get them to ignore his collapsing economic mess than to pull a George Bush-like move on Ukraine, much like Cheney did to Iraq?

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
5. I have said before. If the conflict continues it is inevitable, it is the nature of war
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:30 PM
Jan 2015

Even if you have established boundaries, if the enemy continues to shell they MUST eventually go on the offensive. War begets war. If your enemy continues to kill the only way to stop them is to go on the offensive. Period.

Nothing extraordinary about this. Ukraine has continued shelling and has continued to indicate they are preparing for an offensive. So the rebels of course are going to do this. DUH!

Time to work out an agreement for peacekeepers. It is telling we have not allowed their use (Russia has already said they would be in favor of international peacekeepers). WHY?

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
8. you seem to have a wee bit of a chicken vs. egg problem.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:00 PM
Jan 2015

How can you ignore Mother Russia's mother fucking up of the Ukraine under Stalin? You think that didn't leave a stain? A memory? Some bad feelings? If so, you obviously don't know any Ukies.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
9. Only a minority (powerful minority at the moment) want war in Ukraine
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:28 PM
Jan 2015

Most of the rest of the population is simply scared shitless. Why the hell do you think that even now Ukraine has so much difficulty with it's army? Don't believe the western propaganda. Ukrainians have far more experience in military than most of the west. They have mandatory service, every male in the country has been through at least some military training (another reason why it was so easy for the east to pull together a fairly qualified army from scratch.

No, the reason that Ukraine is having so much trouble is that most Ukrainians do not have their heart in fighting the east. Of course you will not hear that on Ukrainian media because if they say so in public they will get a "visit" soon enough.

And I know more "Ukies" (Not a term I would use nor most Ukrainians) than most everyone on this site. If the people you are talking to are obsessed with revenge you are most likely talking only to people who grew up around Lviv or living in the US they have been caught up in the media spin.

The party that came into power in Kiev could never have done so except by violence, threat, and mass disinfranchisement.
They have always lost elections because they are a minority.

The Green Manalishi

(1,054 posts)
22. I hope they wipe out every last rebel.
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 12:39 PM
Jan 2015

With extreme prejudice.

If the 'Russian Minority" wants to live in Russia, let 'em go.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
2. Russia just trying to keep the peace again, I see.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:05 PM
Jan 2015

Attacking once more. Hope the Ukrainians put up a fight

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
3. I am sure the Putin
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:08 PM
Jan 2015

people will be here any minute to explain it is all some kind of misunderstanding. They signed a fucking cease fire and they now have totally broken it. We need to start sending intel and maybe a few cruise missiles in military targets to warn them back. Obviously Ukraine cannot defend itself from the Russian military.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
4. And this is why crippling Russia is so necessary, so that they can't do much more of this.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:11 PM
Jan 2015

Ukraine is pretty much fucked, but degrading Russia's ability to do anything outside its own borders is necessary to protect its neighbors from this feral has-been of a state.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
6. yep, now Russia
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:46 PM
Jan 2015

is looking at other countries and the "Russian minority". They are saying they may need to invade to "protect" them.

Igel

(35,191 posts)
7. Zakharchenko:
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:41 PM
Jan 2015

The best tribute to our dead is to kill the living.


Yup. Sums up one possible worldview.

Meanwhile, Lavrov is lamenting that Ukraine has chosen the "military" solution. Obviously confusing all those khokhol names, Zakharchenko, Poroshenko. All those "enkos", who can possibly keep them straight?

Heywood J

(2,515 posts)
11. Isn't parading captives in front of cameras like that
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 03:07 PM
Jan 2015

a violation of the Geneva conventions? If those are no longer in use, the rebels should find themselves on the receiving end of an unpleasant surprise.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/icrc-says-pow-images-breach-geneva-convention/3231184

"It is forbidden to expose prisoners of war to public curiosity... and the essential thing is to make clear to all parties that PoWs should not be exposed in any form," said Jakob Kellenberger, the Swiss president of the ICRC.
<...>
Article 13 specifically refers to the use and distribution of images of PoWs and calls for their protection against "insults and public curiosity".

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
12. It does, but the Geneva conventions are ignored now by
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 05:43 PM
Jan 2015

all countries. Like our torture and imprisonment policies. Our war policies, etc.

Ukraine has also broken conventions. That is why Putin requested, at the Valdai conference, the world work together to resolve the crisis in the standard war rules such as Geneva.

Geneva Conventions Redefined – Part 1: The New U.S Department of War
https://spktruth2power.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/geneva-conventions-redefined-%E2%80%93-part-1-the-new-u-s-department-of-war/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
13. EU mulls emergency meeting over Russia-Ukraine conflict
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 06:37 PM
Jan 2015

BRUSSELS: The European Union (EU) is considering an emergency meeting to discuss the Russia-Ukraine conflict after rocket attacks killed at least 30 people in Ukraine's strategic Maruipol port on Saturday (Jan 24).

Latvia, which holds the EU's six-month rotating presidency until July, called for an emergency meeting of the EU foreign affairs council next week.

"I call for extraordinary EU Foreign Affairs Council meeting next week, fully support action by HR Federica Mog addressing situation in UA," Latvian foreign minister Edgars Rinkevics said Saturday via Twitter.

In a separate statement the Latvian Foreign Ministry said it was increasingly evident that Russia "is not interested in a peaceful resolution of the conflict" in Ukraine in light of events in Mariupol.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/eu-mulls-emergency/1613536.html

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
15. Russia's going to carve out its hunk of Eastern Ukraine, and the rest winds up in NATO or NATO-lite.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 06:46 PM
Jan 2015

If the conflict ends, people in Russia will have to pay attention to internal matters like corruption and a struggling economy instead of an external, diabolical enemy on their doorstep.

Russia can't be rolled back militarily, so the only real question is how much of Ukraine gets de facto annexed into the Russian empire/federation.


bemildred

(90,061 posts)
17. Russia doesn't want to own it, but they will make sure Ukraine doesn't.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 06:56 PM
Jan 2015

As long as the government remains hostile. And since they have that long open flat border, there is no neat simple cheap way to prevent them.

It will wind up like Georgia/S. Ossetia, most likely.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
18. Russia wants to own it, but not on paper. Ukraine has to figure out how much of its
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 07:06 PM
Jan 2015

own territory it has to amputate and how many of its citizens it has to effectively strip of their citizenship unless they move.

Gruesome decision, but that's their reality.

No NATO membership so long as there is a territorial dispute, so they should cut their losses sooner rather than later. What they need to do is stabilize the country, what's left of it anyways.

Of course, sanctions on Russia are also pretty much permanent at this point, to the extent they change it will be expansion.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
19. I don't think Putin cares much about the sanctions.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 07:24 PM
Jan 2015

In the sense that he won't change his course on their account, I think they make him more intransigent.

Somebody is going to own it, it's bankrupt. I would as soon let Putin fix it, since he broke it, and it's his business. It should be very "interesting" seeing to two sides try to work things out now.

Right, continuing on this course is not a good idea, that Zackachnenko fellow will be in Kiev before you know it if Putin doesn't pull the leash. He doesn't seem as incompetent as the previous bunch.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
20. I think Ukraine is the new Afghanistan.
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 01:34 AM
Jan 2015

The Ukrainians are beyond help, but Russia's going to get one hell of a bloody nose from this when the change gets counted.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
21. Yeah, that's where I've been on it for about a year and a half now, but I keep
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 07:55 AM
Jan 2015

hoping everybody will come to their senses and stop it.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
14. Mariupol: A Strategic And Symbolic Target For Pro-Russian Rebels
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 06:39 PM
Jan 2015

In launching an offensive against the Ukrainian coastal city of Mariupol, pro-Russian separatists have selected a target of both strategic and symbolic importance in their bloody conflict with the government in Kyiv.

Located on the Azov Sea, some 100 kilometers from the rebel-held provincial capital Donetsk, Mariupol is seen as a key element of a potential land corridor from Russia to the Crimean peninsula, which the Kremlin annexed from Ukraine in March, should the city fall to the rebels.

But because Mariupol and Crimea are separated by several hundred kilometers of territory controlled by the Ukrainian government, the city's sea access and status as a temporary regional capital controlled by Kyiv could be of more significance to the separatists, analysts say.

"Every town -- especially such a big city, and quite symbolic as well -- lost by the Ukrainian government undermines the morale of the Ukrainian side and encourages the Russian rebels to go farther and farther," said Oleksiy Melnyk, a military expert from the Razumkov public policy center in Kyiv.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-mariupol-strategic-symbolic-target/26811511.html

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