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Fri Mar 25, 2016, 04:14 PM

 

Why Young People Are Right About Hillary Clinton - by Matt Taibbi

I was disappointed to hear that Rolling Stone had endorsed Hillary Clinton, but I also understood. In many ways, the endorsement by my boss and editor, Jann Wenner, read like the result of painful soul-searching, after this very magazine had a profound influence on a similar race, back in 1972.

Jann explains this eloquently in "Hillary Clinton for President":

(big snip)

Instead, the millions of young voters that are rejecting Hillary's campaign this year are making a carefully reasoned, even reluctant calculation about the limits of the insider politics both she and her husband have represented.

For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.

And to one degree or another, the modern Democratic Party, often including Hillary Clinton personally, has been on the wrong side of virtually all of these issues.

much more
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-young-people-are-right-about-hillary-clinton-20160325

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Reply Why Young People Are Right About Hillary Clinton - by Matt Taibbi (Original post)
Electric Monk Mar 2016 OP
Rebkeh Mar 2016 #1
Silver_Witch Mar 2016 #16
daleanime Mar 2016 #20
Blue_Tires Mar 2016 #2
Rebkeh Mar 2016 #4
PoliticalMalcontent Mar 2016 #9
gelatinous cube Mar 2016 #28
noiretextatique Mar 2016 #10
Blue_Tires Mar 2016 #65
Major Hogwash Mar 2016 #13
Blue_Tires Mar 2016 #66
thesquanderer Mar 2016 #34
Blue_Tires Mar 2016 #64
thesquanderer Mar 2016 #67
Blue_Tires Mar 2016 #68
thesquanderer Mar 2016 #69
jalan48 Mar 2016 #3
Rebkeh Mar 2016 #5
grasswire Mar 2016 #22
NJCher Mar 2016 #24
gelatinous cube Mar 2016 #29
Jitter65 Mar 2016 #59
jalan48 Mar 2016 #61
zentrum Mar 2016 #6
jwirr Mar 2016 #56
zentrum Mar 2016 #58
truebrit71 Mar 2016 #7
cprise Mar 2016 #21
SCantiGOP Mar 2016 #8
noiretextatique Mar 2016 #11
retrowire Mar 2016 #12
SCantiGOP Mar 2016 #25
retrowire Mar 2016 #39
CBGLuthier Mar 2016 #26
SCantiGOP Mar 2016 #47
CBGLuthier Mar 2016 #57
SCantiGOP Mar 2016 #60
mdbl Mar 2016 #48
SCantiGOP Mar 2016 #49
mdbl Mar 2016 #50
TryLogic Mar 2016 #14
TryLogic Mar 2016 #15
ChiciB1 Mar 2016 #18
cprise Mar 2016 #17
ChiciB1 Mar 2016 #19
RufusTFirefly Mar 2016 #30
tomm2thumbs Mar 2016 #23
Tortmaster Mar 2016 #27
Tortmaster Mar 2016 #31
islandmkl Mar 2016 #35
Tortmaster Mar 2016 #41
Scuba Mar 2016 #32
Historic NY Mar 2016 #33
islandmkl Mar 2016 #37
malthaussen Mar 2016 #38
yuiyoshida Mar 2016 #36
DhhD Mar 2016 #40
Bread and Circus Mar 2016 #42
SHRED Mar 2016 #52
Bread and Circus Mar 2016 #43
FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #51
Springslips Mar 2016 #44
Bread and Circus Mar 2016 #45
mdbl Mar 2016 #46
valerief Mar 2016 #53
Califonz Mar 2016 #54
yurbud Mar 2016 #55
Norrin Radd Mar 2016 #62
kristopher Mar 2016 #63
MrMickeysMom Mar 2016 #70
Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #71
chervilant Mar 2016 #72

Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:13 PM

1. He's right

We shouldn't dismiss the young folks, they see so much more than we ever did. They see more than we do even now. And they will carry the heaviest burden for our mistakes, they already are and if Bernie loses, we will have made it so. much. worse.


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Response to Rebkeh (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:39 PM

16. So very true and very sad.

 

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Response to Rebkeh (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:38 AM

20. +1

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:19 PM

2. Or it could just be that young people are naturally drawn to outsider candidates?

It would have been nice if the "young people" gave enough of a shit about 2010 and 2014 to show up and vote, but baby steps...

College kids were big on Ron Paul in '08 until he dropped out -- Were they "right" about him?

I do like the irony given that the "young people" are what helped put Bill Clinton over the top in '92...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:49 PM

4. Sort of

The reasons they liked Ron Paul were legitimate, but he was still the wrong person for actual solutions. He was a very impractical choice. Ultimately, young people went overwhelmingly for Obama anyway - and they were right.

It's not uncommon to like a bad candidate for the right (but incorrect) reasons. For example, the reasons Trump supporters like Trump are legitimate, but he's still a terrible choice for POTUS.

Incidentally, women that want Clinton simply because she's a woman are wrong about her, but they'd be correct about Elizabeth Warren.

In 2010 and especially 2014, the Democratic Party ran terrible candidates. Young people show up when there's someone to vote for, they don't show up to vote for the lesser of two evils. That's my generation's (Gen X) downfall, we still ended up with two terms of Bush anyway. It's just not a good way to do things and here we are trying to dig in on the same strategy using yet another scary-man republican of the moment.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 07:01 PM

9. Not sure it's that young people are drawn to outsiders. My take on recent elections.

Thoughts on why '04 turned out the way it did (from someone who detested Bush and voted Kerry):

1. Incumbents have a built-in advantage. Name recognition is a powerful thing (See: Clinton, Hillary - 2016)
2. Dirty politics. That whole Swiftboat Veterens for Truth became synonymous with dirty political attacks. When someone defines a candidate before they get a chance to define themselves that can be very powerful. Kerry was known to low-info voters as a guy who ditched his military comrades or some such. They also painted him, fairly or not, as a bit of a flip-flopper. His flip-flopping pails in comparison to Clinton's.
3. In times of war people and chaos people are more likely to stick with the devil they know over the devil they don't. A lot of people plain don't like politics, politicians, and couldn't care less. That's probably why you're seeing Trump get so many supporters right now. People are just tired of seeing the system at work, even if Trump is a pompous ass.

I think young people just want someone they can trust, and the political system keeps telling them to go fuck themselves. That's why Sanders was so refreshing and why Clinton is such a finger to the eye. They don't see her as trustworthy. It's not like Trump holds some moral high ground there, but we should strive to be a party with higher standards.

The two most likely candidates left are not good and America is feeling more and more like some sort of dystopian society where the poor stay poor, and the best way to have a decent shot at making something of yourself you need to be born into wealth.

The system is broken. I want a candidate that will at least attempt to fix it.

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Response to PoliticalMalcontent (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 06:02 AM

28. Yep.

I think young people just want someone they can trust, and the political system keeps telling them to go fuck themselves. That's why Sanders was so refreshing and why Clinton is such a finger to the eye.

Most of my class supports the candidate they trust; not one supports Clinton.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:24 PM

10. The young people who helped Bill didn't have 100k

Student loan debts.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:20 PM

65. Are you sure?

adjusted for 1992 dollars, of course...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:26 PM

13. Or it could be that they know that Hillary has gambled their future away.

Growing up for most of their lives hearing about the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, and all the gawd damned saber rattling against Iran, maybe, just maybe, they are not all that hip-hop happy with the eternal, never-ending wars that our gawd damned country is inextricably involved with like a Gordian knot!

On top of that, blaming college-aged kids for the results of the 2010 and 2014 elections falls on their deaf ears.
Most of them were not even able at that age to even understand why the mainstream media was totally ambivalent towards President Obama since 2008.

How the hell are they supposed to filter through all of that political, rhetorical dog shit about how all they want is free stuff, when they can't even get a decent job to pay for gas for their car, if they even have one?






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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:25 PM

66. They realize Sanders isn't going to

snap his fingers and magically withdraw U.S. efforts from every single conflict, right?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:29 AM

34. about young people not showing up in 2010 and 2014

That's one of Bernie's issues, really. In effect, the kids aren't going to do it unless you keep them engaged. Obama didn't do much to inspire the people who voted for him to come out in the off-year elections. Bernie is about building a movement that does't disappear on the Wednesday after election day. To get more of his agenda through, Bernie needs progressively (pardon the pun) better congresses.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #34)

Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:19 PM

64. It's not Obama's responsiblity to "inspire" voters

and lest you forget, he did a shitload of stumping for the close races...

Maybe I've been doing this wrong all this time --I've been voting all my life in almost every local-state-national race, regardless of whether or not I was "inspired"...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #64)

Mon Mar 28, 2016, 05:17 PM

67. While it's not be the president's "responsibility" to do so...

...there could be benefits to doing so, especially if one has an aggressive agenda.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #67)

Tue Mar 29, 2016, 09:08 AM

68. So all the campaigning and public appearances

he put in for downticket candidates meant nothing?

If you say so....

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #68)

Tue Mar 29, 2016, 09:23 AM

69. I didn't say so, you put those words in my mouth.

I didn't say his downticket campaigning in select races meant nothing.

That's not the same as trying to keep young people engaged nationwide.

Different strategies. One can do one, the other, or both.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:27 PM

3. Young people know the environment is fucked up and getting worse.

My guess is that they see candidates who have the backing of big, consumption driven corporations as part of the problem, not the solution.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:49 PM

5. This ^

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:29 AM

22. yep nt

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 02:49 AM

24. The environment

Is the big thing. I teach college-level and this is what I hear.

Cher

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 06:10 AM

29. All the way back to First Grade

I can remember topics about environmental disasters. We studied a tanker that had dumped an enormous amount of oil into the sea, and how it affected the surrounding wildlife. We have been told from the start by teachers, parents - almost every adult - that the environment is being destroyed, and that it falls to us to save it. For most of us, it has become a large political issue.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:04 PM

59. do they know and understand their role in it? nt

 

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #59)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:22 PM

61. I'm not sure any of us know this.

We just try to exist as humans always have with our daily cares and concerns. I think young people do get the fact that the structure necessary for us to have our cares and concerns is in danger. For older people this is a newer fear, we weren't thinking about it at all when we were young. Wall Street/Capitalism is like Disneyland-just go out, spend money and have a good time. There is an awareness that something is wrong with this model-we can't continue down this path-what do we do?

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:52 PM

6. And guess what?

There are plenty of not young people supporting him for the same reasons!

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Response to zentrum (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:37 PM

56. Exactly. As I read this thread the often posted article called

"Those Damned Hippies Were Right" comes to mind. I am an old hippie now but I believe in the ideals of the young.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #56)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:47 PM

58. Yup!

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:05 PM

7. Excellent article. It points out everything that is wrong with the Dems...

 

...and the Clinton brand as a whole...I just hope that the voters are smart enough to pick the right nominee, and leave Hillary to collect her millions on the lecture circuit...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:57 AM

21. Not really. Hillary is a police-state war monger to the core.

She'll react with platitudes and evasions when public outcry becomes too deafening, but she'll continue appointing Iraq war architects like Robert Kagan and Victoria Nuland and continually pushing for regime change in Libya and Syria and general destabilization. And who remembers the Clinton whitehouse was the original pusher of Bush's WMD lies and call for regime change? She was not new to the subject 5 years later when the IWR vote came up.



(And yes, she did run on her husband's record in 2008 and let Bill advertise them as a team.)

She has /consistently/ dealed for FTAs, and even lied about her support for NAFTA. So she is a class warrior in the economic sense, too.

Taibbi is being rather facile about her record.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:37 PM

8. Guess no Sanders supporters read this

A few days ago, when Rolling Stone endorsed Clinton, dozens of Sanders supporters swore they would never again read this "tool of the establishment."

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:27 PM

11. Lots of people are clinging to Clinton

In fear of something worse. Change takes courage.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:22 PM

12. Didn't Rolling Stone put one of the boston bombers on their cover?

That's when I dropped them like a rock.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 05:21 AM

25. Yes

Every right wing crank in the country urged a boycott over that.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:15 AM

39. left wingers too. nt

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 05:23 AM

26. DO you think Sanders only has "dozens of supporter?"

See, unlike the Clintonites we don't all march in lockstep or engage in group think.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #26)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:17 AM

47. Read the post:

It said dozens posted about it, clearly didn't say there were only dozens. But your point was not about accuracy anyway.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #47)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:47 PM

57. "Guess no Sanders supporters read this"

I would think if there is a reading comprehension fail it would be on your part. The post was titled


Guess no Sanders supporters read this


As in no, as in none, because after all dozens said they would boycott Rolling Stone.

Got it? Good.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #57)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:08 PM

60. Thanks so much for the lecture

Can't imagine why you get so many posts hidden when you're so pleasant.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:18 AM

48. Dozens? out of Milliions?

so who said this?

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Response to mdbl (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:21 AM

49. Dozens here in one thread.

Forget it; I don't argue with people who don't care to start with the facts.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #49)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:25 AM

50. oh.

ok

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:28 PM

14. Being the editor of a magazine does not keep you from making mistakes.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:32 PM

15. I think young people who pay any attention at all see what is going on a lot better than

better than older folks who are often heavily polluted and brain washed by years of media and political BS and propaganda.

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Response to TryLogic (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:22 AM

18. Well, I Ain't A "Young People" But I Jumped In With Bernie A Long

time before my grand kids did. And, I still subscribe to Rolling Stone!

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:19 AM

17. The only person left worth reading at RS.

I don't think he'll be there for much longer.

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Response to cprise (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:24 AM

19. I Love Reading His Articles, But I Also Wonder If He'll Stay...

but he's been there for a long time.

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 06:44 AM

30. As some may recall, Taibbi left RS (briefly) in 2014

He was going to head a satirical digital magazine called The Racket


The Inside Story of Matt Taibbi's Departure from First Look Media

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:35 AM

23. 'the wrong side of virtually all of these issues' indeed


and continues to be frankly, given the nature of how the campaign is raising it's millions via SuperPACS

lead by example

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 05:55 AM

27. Young people are right because ...

... Matt Taibbi sells to young people.

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Response to Tortmaster (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 07:55 AM

31. Additionally, young people taught ...

... us how spending 2000 hours per year on Call of Duty was totally worth it; they led on Beiber and the Kardashians, and just a few short years ago they brought us The Suite Life of Zach and Cody.

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Response to Tortmaster (Reply #31)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:38 AM

35. what was your trick for skipping your youth and turning out all wise...??

good luck with dismissing the youth...because they will be you someday...

and they might possibly see things a little differently than you...and not give one shit about what happens to you...

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Response to islandmkl (Reply #35)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:47 AM

41. I was quite the adorable...

... little zealot in my youth. It's actually pretty funny.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:05 AM

32. "... Hillary Clinton personally, has been on the wrong side of virtually all of these issues. "

 

But we're supposed to vote for her because she's experienced.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:18 AM

33. Matt should just quit then on principle.....

big crowds didn't help McGovern in 72 and they aren't helping BS right now.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #33)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:41 AM

37. i love how people point at '72 to reference Bernie...

but don't want to point out any problems relating to the Democratic Party and the country as results of 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2010 ,2012 and 2014....

Third Way/DLC/DNC...all good...for somebody

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Response to islandmkl (Reply #37)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:12 AM

38. I think '72 was deeply wounding.

And naturally, that wound is going to be exploited, but those who hark back to 1972 may not necessarily be malicious, just very scarred. Or scared, as may be.

In any event, the '72 debacle has been a spectre haunting the Dems ever since, and in order to try to avert further such disasters, it has been moving to the Right ever since.

-- Mal

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:39 AM

36. K&R

Tweeted

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:43 AM

40. In the past, when teaching, I used tell kids that doing well in class would help then out in

college. Now I do not talk about college anymore. In the Government class, they learn about why 18 year old persons got the Vote, during the Vietnam War. Graduating students are actually upset about the fact they they are facing minimum wage pay when joining the workforce and that college loans will prevent them from owning a home or attaining the American Dream that their parents have now. Most parents cannot qualify for an education loan. Students worry about a Draft and who is going to pay for foreign wars of the near future. Female students are worried that since Bush approved of women in combat, that they could be set up for a future Draft.

Students talk about their worries and text them on social media. They will to tell you about their future outlook. It makes me sad to think about Hillary Clinton continuing to do in the Middle East what she did in Libya. It makes me cry to think about the deaths of my students from ME Wars. Students will tell you that right now, their hope lies with Sanders. High school Seniors are 17 and 18 years old; mostly 18 by May. They register for the Draft near the end of the Spring semester of their Senior year.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:21 AM

42. So much in Taibbi's article is the reality of how I see it. I just can't reconcile how this

is not obvious nearly all of the rest of the Democratic Party.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #42)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:52 AM

52. I hear ya...

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:22 AM

43. The money quote

For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.

And to one degree or another, the modern Democratic Party, often including Hillary Clinton personally, has been on the wrong side of virtually all of these issues.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #43)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:38 AM

51. For some, money trumps truth and honesty. /

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:30 AM

44. About the 1972 election. . .

Thomas Frank disagrees about the nature of the McGovern campaign. They were not like Bernie, in his argument, McGovern is the beginning of the DLC/Third Way movement. Although you may feel to reject this notion out-of-hand his argument makes sense. Nixon was pulling away the working class, the hard hats, so the McGovern commission planned a new constituency, credentialed pros--of who the war protestors would become.



He talks about 1972 starting around 19:20.

It is worth reflection.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:42 AM

45. And this...

My worry is that Democrats like Hillary have been saying, "The Republicans are worse!" for so long that they've begun to believe it excuses everything.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:14 AM

46. I am not a young dude but this applies to me:

from the same article cited in the OP

"Young people don't see the Sanders-Clinton race as a choice between idealism and incremental progress. The choice they see is between an honest politician, and one who is so profoundly a part of the problem that she can't even see it anymore. They've seen in the last decades that politicians who promise they can deliver change while also taking the money, mostly just end up taking the money.
And they're voting for Sanders because his idea of an entirely voter-funded electoral "revolution" that bars corporate money is, no matter what its objective chances of success, the only practical road left to break what they perceive to be an inexorable pattern of corruption. Young people aren't dreaming. They're thinking. And we should listen to them."

Thanks Matt. Well spoken.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:06 PM

53. K&R

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:20 PM

54. The American people will eventually elect another FDR

 

but I hope it's before the voters get their faces kicked in by the elites in another financial crash similar to the Great Depression.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:30 PM

55. the reality is, they are only incremental is serving the working and middle class...

they can be quite radical and move lickety-split when servicing the 1%.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:45 PM

62. kr

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:12 AM

63. That is a damn fine piece of writing.

Thanks for bringing it over.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:56 AM

70. So many gems from this piece... One worth repeating...

Young people don't see the Sanders-Clinton race as a choice between idealism and incremental progress. The choice they see is between an honest politician, and one who is so profoundly a part of the problem that she can't even see it anymore.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-young-people-are-right-about-hillary-clinton-20160325#ixzz44IuahkUg
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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #70)

Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:54 PM

71. Exactly. +1.

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Response to Electric Monk (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 10:59 AM

72. This:

As The New Jim Crow author Michelle Alexander noted, America when Bill Clinton left office had the world's highest incarceration rate, with a prison admission rate for black drug inmates that was 23 times 1983 levels. Hillary stumped for that crime bill, adding the Reaganesque observation that inner-city criminals were "super-predators" who needed to be "brought to heel."


And, this:

And they're voting for Sanders because his idea of an entirely voter-funded electoral "revolution" that bars corporate money is, no matter what its objective chances of success, the only practical road left to break what they perceive to be an inexorable pattern of corruption.


It seems that Hi11ary has come to exemplify "an inexorable pattern of corruption" for the vast majority of our younglings, many of whom view as anathema the racism of their forebears.

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