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friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 03:47 PM Jun 2016

The uncomfortable truth about gun rights supporters – sometimes they are right

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/22/gun-rights-supporters-national-rifle-association-nra

The uncomfortable truth about gun rights supporters – sometimes they are right
Lois Beckett


...Let the record show: calm, reasonable, friendly Americans also believe in gun rights...

...As incomplete and imprecise as much gun data is, the bigger picture is clear: most guns are not being used in crimes. Most gun owners are not committing crimes.

Even David Hemenway, a leading public health researcher who is skeptical of how many good things are done with guns, concedes this point.

“The large majority of gun owners aren’t going to do anything good or bad for public health with their guns this year,” he said.


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The uncomfortable truth about gun rights supporters – sometimes they are right (Original Post) friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 OP
Ms. Beckett interviewed NRA convention attendees -- she might as well have gone to a Klan meeting or Hoyt Jun 2016 #1
Agree katmondoo Jun 2016 #2
And they weren't the slavering racists that you paint them as being. So what's your point... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #4
Sounded like typical white wing gun owners to me. Why didn't she interview this NRA board member, Hoyt Jun 2016 #5
Because she was interviewing *actual NRA members*, not the undeniably loathsome leaders friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #6
Those members elected Nugent, Ollie North, Norquist, Bob Barr, and worse. Hoyt Jun 2016 #8
Yes, they did, and when the antigun movement can likewise get tens of thousands to attend a... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #10
No one, but gunners, want to attend a GOPer led Klan meeting to talk about guns and other Hoyt Jun 2016 #11
Reread what I posted- Apparently, antigunners cannot organize themselves to the same level as... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #13
If they could have organized ... virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #18
Instead, they have devolved into conspiracy theory and police-state fantasies friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #19
"No one, but gunners, want to attend a GOPer led Klan meeting to talk about guns" beergood Jun 2016 #23
She's damn sure not for Democrats, so I'd put her in the white wing camp. Hoyt Jun 2016 #24
"almost never" is more like it 300gools Jun 2016 #3
The uncomfortable truth about Donald Trump is that sometimes he is right. Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #7
And *that's* why he's gotten as far as he has- when he has a 'stopped clock' moment... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #9
So what? SheilaT Jun 2016 #12
What *effectual* political means are you using to bring about what you desire? friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #14
I happen to advocate straight out gun confiscation. SheilaT Jun 2016 #16
I get that, but what are you *doing* about it other than posting online? friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #17
I start at the grass roots level. SheilaT Jun 2016 #20
"I don't own any guns." Neither do I. Haven't owned one since the early 80's friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #21
"I happen to advocate straight out gun confiscation." beergood Jun 2016 #22
"Sometimes they are right?" The point is not that all gun supporters are killers. Nitram Jun 2016 #15
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
1. Ms. Beckett interviewed NRA convention attendees -- she might as well have gone to a Klan meeting or
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 03:55 PM
Jun 2016

interviewed Randy Weaver or George Zimmerman.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
4. And they weren't the slavering racists that you paint them as being. So what's your point...
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 03:58 PM
Jun 2016

...besides 'virtue signalling' that you generally don't like gun owners?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
5. Sounded like typical white wing gun owners to me. Why didn't she interview this NRA board member,
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:02 PM
Jun 2016

elected by the membership:

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
6. Because she was interviewing *actual NRA members*, not the undeniably loathsome leaders
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:12 PM
Jun 2016

There was no way for her to interview the vile Nugent, because if you had actually
bothered to read the linked article, you would have known that:

We were outside the Louisville convention center because the NRA had refused media credentials to the Guardian for its four-day event, which it said had attracted more than 80,000 people.
 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
10. Yes, they did, and when the antigun movement can likewise get tens of thousands to attend a...
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:24 PM
Jun 2016

...yearly convention that they have to pay for themselves- why, then they'll have a
real chance to counter the NRA.

Until then, gun control advocacy will remain a bastion of ineffectual slacktivism and dependency
on the largesse of wealthy patrons.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
11. No one, but gunners, want to attend a GOPer led Klan meeting to talk about guns and other
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:34 PM
Jun 2016

white wing crud.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
13. Reread what I posted- Apparently, antigunners cannot organize themselves to the same level as...
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:45 PM
Jun 2016

..the NRA can, and so antigun activism nowadays consists of largely of ineffectual online
handwringing, shouting and handwaving, present company not excepted.

Tl;dr version: The NRA is organized, its opponents are not, and unless and until they
do get organized to nearly the same level they will remain a source of political noise, not power

beergood

(470 posts)
23. "No one, but gunners, want to attend a GOPer led Klan meeting to talk about guns"
Thu Jun 23, 2016, 08:03 PM
Jun 2016

whats your opinion of this women? do you honestly believe she is a right wing raciest homophobe?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
24. She's damn sure not for Democrats, so I'd put her in the white wing camp.
Thu Jun 23, 2016, 08:16 PM
Jun 2016

Did you watch that video with her rant on Democratic Socialists, Jerry Brown, Gavin, BS about Lenin and the Constitution, etc.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
7. The uncomfortable truth about Donald Trump is that sometimes he is right.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:13 PM
Jun 2016

Very rarely, but once in a great while he says something remotely factual. Of course that's no reason to side with him.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
9. And *that's* why he's gotten as far as he has- when he has a 'stopped clock' moment...
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:19 PM
Jun 2016

...it resonates with his low-information voting base, who ignore all the rest of his routine.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
12. So what?
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:39 PM
Jun 2016

Why do so many think that they must have guns in their homes? What about the statistics about the presence of a gun in the household vastly increasing the chance that someone in that household is shot by that gun?

How about the toddler who finds the gun and shoots her brother?

How about the suicides?

And moving in the direction of having ALL guns registered, ALL gun owners required to have some sort of insurance (which given the vast number of guns out there would probably be quite cheap), required to report stolen guns within 48 hours, required to take some sort of gun safety course on a regular basis. For chrissakes, we require cars to be registered and drivers to be licensed, and the essential use of a car is NOT to kill or wound living things.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
14. What *effectual* political means are you using to bring about what you desire?
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:51 PM
Jun 2016

You don't like the NRA? Good, I don't like them either- but to use your words: So what?

Unless and until gun control advocates start playing realpolitik at the same
level that the NRA does, they will remain largely a loose group of Keyboard Kommandos.

The following is not an effective tool to bring about gun control, yet it remains
popular for some reason:

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
16. I happen to advocate straight out gun confiscation.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jun 2016

I know that makes me a nutcase.

But how about starting with registering ALL guns, licensing ALL gun owners, and have real consequences for those who don't register or license. And hold ALL who sell guns, whether privately or otherwise, responsible for making sure an appropriate background check, license, and registration.

I'm so fucking sick and tired of the weak, "Oh, we can't do anything," and then the only response to the latest round of gun violence is a minute of silence? How effective is THAT.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
17. I get that, but what are you *doing* about it other than posting online?
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 08:38 PM
Jun 2016

When you and other like-minded people can organize enough to hold an annual convention with tens of
thousands of attendees, then you might get part of what you want.

Until then, most gun control activism will remain 'gun control slacktivism'

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
21. "I don't own any guns." Neither do I. Haven't owned one since the early 80's
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 09:33 PM
Jun 2016

'Non-possesion of an inanimate object' =/= 'taking action'

beergood

(470 posts)
22. "I happen to advocate straight out gun confiscation."
Thu Jun 23, 2016, 07:52 PM
Jun 2016

hence the expression "registration leads to confiscation." why else be so adamant about registration?

"And hold ALL who sell guns, whether privately or otherwise, responsible for making sure an appropriate background check"
agreed, i live in CA. we have UBCs i have no problem with them. it insures that any firearm i sell does not end up in the wrong hands.

Nitram

(22,663 posts)
15. "Sometimes they are right?" The point is not that all gun supporters are killers.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 07:00 PM
Jun 2016

The point is that they are against legislation that would reduce deaths by gun violence and increase the ability of law enforcement to enforce gun laws that are on the books by instituting universal registration and universal background checks.

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