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Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:39 AM

Ijeoma Oluo: Al Franken harassed women and should resign. But it's OK to admit his loss hurts.

For many reasons, most abusers are more like Al Franken than Harvey Weinstein.

From: From NBC News Think


*****

It’s tough because Al is not the type of man we want to see as an abuser. It’s tough because Al is not someone we can just call a “bad guy” and toss away. It’s tough because when Al loses his job, we lose some of the comfort and security that having him in that role provided for us.

*****

Because we built a system that has encouraged and protected and revered people like Franken. Because our society has benefitted greatly from the contributions of men — of abusers — who also worked hard to advance progressive causes and to keep the worst of conservative agenda at bay. Because we made bad deals and bargained away the humanity of women in order to avoid the very hard work of having to fix what was broken.

Al Franken was able to rise to the rank of U.S. senator without addressing the harm he had done women because we as a society and we as a political party did not think that it was that important. Because we have never held likable men who abuse women accountable for their actions unless forced to do so. Because we have always sold out the wellbeing of individual women for the benefit of the collective — as if the collective isn’t also made up of individual women.

*****

To those who still believe the stakes are just too high right now to start banishing mostly good guys, I sympathize. But not holding abusers accountable hasn’t worked so well for us, and we’ve been trying that one for, well, basically forever. Maybe we try radically living up to our ideals instead and see what that gets us.

*****

Nothing is guaranteed but this: We are defined not by the things we do when life is easy, but by the things we do when life is tough. We cannot bargain away our values now because it might win us an election. If we did win, it would be a hollow victory, and to pretend otherwise would only corrupt ourselves more. If we sacrifice the humanity of women in order to battle a party that has never pretended to care about women, what will we have left outside of pretense?

*****

Read it all at: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/al-franken-abused-women-should-resign-it-s-ok-admit-ncna827556

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Reply Ijeoma Oluo: Al Franken harassed women and should resign. But it's OK to admit his loss hurts. (Original post)
yallerdawg Dec 2017 OP
ebbie15644 Dec 2017 #1
tazkcmo Dec 2017 #2
yallerdawg Dec 2017 #6
delisen Dec 2017 #3
yallerdawg Dec 2017 #4
delisen Dec 2017 #8
yallerdawg Dec 2017 #9
hurple Dec 2017 #10
delisen Dec 2017 #11
solara Dec 2017 #5
yallerdawg Dec 2017 #7
dalton99a Dec 2017 #12
yallerdawg Dec 2017 #13
intheozone Dec 2017 #14
yallerdawg Dec 2017 #15
yurbud Dec 2017 #16
yallerdawg Dec 2017 #17
yurbud Dec 2017 #18

Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:44 AM

1. No

it's not ok.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:49 AM

2. Bullshit. Nt

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Response to tazkcmo (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:16 AM

6. Bullshit?

"I'm not going to make any excuses. I am embarrassed and ashamed of some of what has come out,” Franken told CBS Minnesota on Sunday.

Franken told told the Minnesota Star Tribune that he would return to work on Monday knowing "I've let a lot of people down, and I'm hoping I can make it up to them and gradually regain their trust."

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 08:58 AM

3. Straw Man argument?

The issue is due process.

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Response to delisen (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:11 AM

4. This is a Straw Man?

"I'm going to try and learn from my mistakes," Franken said. "And in doing so I've been doing a lot of reflecting and I want to be someone who adds something to this conversation, and I hope I can do that."

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:42 AM

8. Sorry I don't see the relevance of the Franken quote.

What do you think this means?

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Response to delisen (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:49 AM

9. This means you don't care what Franken has to say?

What about the women?

What is relevant?

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:56 AM

10. What is relevant

Is that none of his accusers stories stand up under scrutiny. Not. One.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 10:02 AM

11. It means I don't see the connection to what I posted.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:12 AM

5. Nope

What Sen Franken is accused of is definitely not 'harassment'

Sexual harassment refers to persistent and unwanted sexual advances, typically in the workplace, where the consequences of refusing are potentially very disadvantageous, even harmful to the victim.

Ijeoma Oluo's article is based upon harmful assumptions because none of Sen Franken's accusers have described any experience even remotely like 'persistent and unwanted sexual advances, where the consequences of refusing are potentially very disadvantageous, even harmful to the victim'

The folks who insist on grouping Sen Franken in with actual sexual harassers and abusers should educate themselves as to what those terms actually mean.

As someone who is definitely #MeToo, this kind of gratuitous crap is quite upsetting and sickens me

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Response to solara (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 09:24 AM

7. I guarantee you...

if women in the workplace said I did these things 30 years ago, I'd be out on my ass in a New York minute!

As a Democrat, I must say I have given "the benefit of the doubt" for decades now. Disappointed each and every time!

I have been enabling these kinds of behaviors, and I am done.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 10:13 AM

12. "Al Franken harassed women" is an unproven statement

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 10:18 AM

13. Unless, of course, you ask...

Al Franken.

What you are suggesting is that we don't really care what the women say or feel - we want evidence and proof - and a "legal" standard and a "due process."

We want exactly what has silenced women for the last 40 years.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:26 PM

14. Bullshit article, ignores the real facts re accusations. nt

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Response to intheozone (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 01:32 PM

15. You mean...

"She said..." and then we start digging up the buts?

Not quite ready to end that yet?

Unless, of course, it's their tribe.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 02:19 PM

16. How many of his harassers were on the record?

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Response to yurbud (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 8, 2017, 04:01 PM

17. You call THEM "harassers?"

1. Leeann Tweeden

2. Lindsay Menz

3. Anonymous Accuser No. 1

4. Anonymous Accuser No. 2

The Huffington Post reported the claims of two women whose names were not disclosed.

5. Stephanie Kemplin

6. Anonymous Accuser No. 3, an elected official

A woman told Jezebel about an alleged incident 2006 when Franken gave her a "wet, open-mouthed kiss" during an event.

7. Anonymous Accuser No. 4, a former congressional aide

The unidentified accuser, who is a former Democratic congressional aide, spoke to Politico and shared how she says she ducked to avoid Franken kissing her as she tried to leave the radio studio.

8. Tina Dupuy

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/US/sen-al-frankens-accusers-accusations-made/story?id=51406862

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 09:45 AM

18. sorry, that was a typo on my part. i meant accusers

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