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BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 10:02 AM Oct 2018

Role of regulation in value-based health care

Last edited Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Role of regulation in value-based health care
Patient-Centered, Value-Based Health Care Is Incompatible With The Current Climate Of Excessive Regulation

By John O'Shea
Health Affairs Blog, October 3, 2018

Although still a subject of debate, the fee-for-service health care payment system that reimburses providers for individual services is widely indicted for promoting care that is inefficient, uncoordinated, and too often fails to meet the needs of patients. Whether or not fee-for-service is the main culprit, the escalating cost and inconsistent quality of US health care highlights the need for a better system. In discussions about what that system should look like, the terms “patient-centered” and “value-based” have become buzz words for payment and delivery reform in health care.

Unfortunately, many well-intentioned efforts to move to a more effective system are adding to the already substantial administrative and regulatory burden on physicians, hospitals, and other providers. In turn, these cumbersome new initiatives stifle innovation and obstruct meaningful payment and delivery reform. The current administration has appropriately recognized that this over-regulation is impeding the transition to a truly patient-centered and value-based health care system. Recently announced initiatives such as “Meaningful Measures” and “Patients over Paperwork” are promising because they aim to reduce the amount of time physicians spend on record-keeping and administrative tasks, allowing them to re-focus on patient care. However, the administration’s recent refusal to consider new payment and delivery models recommended by the Physician-Focused Payment Model Technical Advisory Committee (PTAC) throws into question whether the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is serious about removing barriers to innovation.

The Impact Of MACRA

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2018/october/role-of-regulation-in-value-based-health-care

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Role of regulation in value-based health care (Original Post) BeckyDem Oct 2018 OP
I truly hope Timmygoat Oct 2018 #1
I heard that! Trump and his creepy alert system freaks me out too. BeckyDem Oct 2018 #2
"SinglePayer is proven to slow spending growth without compromising care." George II Oct 2018 #3
Its in the body of the article. BeckyDem Oct 2018 #4
So what do you think the implications are of the Health Affairs *original* article? ehrnst Oct 2018 #5
No comments are indicating any excerpts mashed up. BeckyDem Oct 2018 #6
I have no idea what that sentence means. ehrnst Oct 2018 #7
No, you're not clear what your intent is here. BeckyDem Oct 2018 #8
When you post an edited version of an edited version of a post ehrnst Oct 2018 #9
My title excerpt was not a misunderstanding of the content. BeckyDem Oct 2018 #10
When you edit out content and change the title - that is commenting in and of itself ehrnst Oct 2018 #12
You do understand my edits, which are obvious, not subtle by design, are BeckyDem Oct 2018 #13
I'm not talking about where you put the OP ehrnst Oct 2018 #14
You have slandered PNHP suggesting they were mispresenting O'Shea. They have not BeckyDem Oct 2018 #15
No, that's a strawman. I pointed out that they did not ehrnst Oct 2018 #17
You don't ask hard questions but please, continue to stroke your own ego. BeckyDem Oct 2018 #18
And now an ad hominem attack. ehrnst Oct 2018 #19
Amazing that you imagine O'Shea has ever been misrepresented by PNHP. BeckyDem Oct 2018 #11
Here is something for you to ponder... ehrnst Oct 2018 #16

Timmygoat

(779 posts)
1. I truly hope
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 01:30 PM
Oct 2018

That those who are getting ready to renew their health care (Affordable Health Care) know the rethugs latest trick to deprive them of care, when it is open season to sign up the rethugs are going to take down the sysem. They are going to say it is for maintenance.

George II

(67,782 posts)
3. "SinglePayer is proven to slow spending growth without compromising care."
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 03:41 PM
Oct 2018

That's not what the article says.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
4. Its in the body of the article.
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 05:00 PM
Oct 2018

a well designed single payer system (reduction of administrative excesses, global budgeting, negotiated rates, bulk purchasing, etc.) - do slow spending (value) without eliminating beneficial services (volume). So you can have greater value while maintaining an appropriate volume of services.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
5. So what do you think the implications are of the Health Affairs *original* article?
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 07:13 PM
Oct 2018

The PNHP left out the links included in the text of the original blog post for citations. That's a red flag that it's something that doesn't support the conclusion that PNHP wants.

Here a link to the full blog post, with all citations;

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20180927.405697/full/

Can you tell me what conclusions you reached from this? Not clear from your post, which mashes up excerpts from the already edited PNHP report with comments on the PHNP article.

Also - the snippet of an Obama quote in the rotating banner at the top of the PNHP page dated July 22, 2009:



leaves out the full context what he also said in that same July 22, 2009 press conference, cutting it off mid-sentence, which doesn't lend PNHP much credibility on that- he was answering a reporter's question about if his plan would cover every single person or fewer than that. Here's their snippet in context:

Q Thank you, sir. You were just talking in that question about reducing health care inflation, reducing costs. Can you explain how you're going to expand coverage? Is it fair to say -- is this bill going to cover all 47 million Americans that are uninsured, or is this going to be something -- is it going to take a mandate, or is this something that isn't -- your bill is probably not going to get it all the way there? And if it's not going to get all the way there, can you say how far is enough -- you know, okay, 20 million more, I can sign that; 10 million more, I can't?

THE PRESIDENT: I want to cover everybody. Now, the truth is that unless you have a what's called a single-payer system in which everybody is automatically covered, then you're probably not going to reach every single individual, because there's always going to be somebody out there who thinks they're indestructible and doesn't want to get health care, doesn't bother getting health care, and then unfortunately when they get hit by a bus end up in the emergency room and the rest of us have to pay for it.

But that's not the overwhelming majority of Americans. The overwhelming majority of Americans want health care, but millions of them can't afford it. So the plan that has been -- that I've put forward and that what we're seeing in Congress would cover -- the estimates are at least 97 to 98 percent of Americans.

There might still be people left out there who, even though there's an individual mandate, even though they are required to purchase health insurance, might still not get it, or despite a lot of subsidies are still in such dire straits that it's still hard for them to afford it, and we may end up giving them some sort of hardship exemption.

.................................

So tonight I want to answer those questions. Because even though Congress is still working through a few key issues, we already have rough agreement on the following areas:

If you have health insurance, the reform we're proposing will provide you with more security and more stability. It will keep government out of health care decisions, giving you the option to keep your insurance if you're happy with it. It will prevent insurance companies from dropping your coverage if you get too sick. It will give you the security of knowing that if you lose your job, if you move, or if you change your job, you'll still be able to have coverage. It will limit the amount your insurance company can force you to pay for your medical costs out of your own pocket. And it will cover preventive care like check-ups and mammograms that save lives and money.


And it certainly doesn't include this quote from a few months earlier- which explains WHY he didn't support Single Payer as a solution to the US problem:

“If I were starting a system from scratch then I think that the idea of moving toward a single-payer system could very well make sense. That’s the kind of system that you have in most industrialized countries around the world. The only problem is that we’re not starting from scratch. We have historically a tradition of employer-based healthcare. And, although there are a lot of people who are not satisfied with their health care, the truth is that the vast majority of people currently get health care from their employers, and you’ve got this system that’s already in place.


“We don’t want a huge disruption as we go into healthcare reform where suddenly we’re trying to completely re-invent one-sixth of the economy. So what I’ve said is, let’s set up a system where, uh, if you already have healthcare through your employer and you’re happy with it, you don’t have to change doctors. You don’t have to change plans. Nothing changes. If you don’t have healthcare, or you’re highly unsatisfied with your healthcare, then let’s give you choices. Let’s give you options, including a public plan that you can enroll in and sign up for. That’s been my proposal.


http://www.healthfreedoms.org/obama-single-payer-if-we-were-starting-from-scratch/






 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
7. I have no idea what that sentence means.
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:04 PM
Oct 2018

You quoted comments, and not the actual body of the blog when you posted this as "the body of the text"

a well designed single payer system (reduction of administrative excesses, global budgeting, negotiated rates, bulk purchasing, etc.) - do slow spending (value) without eliminating beneficial services (volume). So you can have greater value while maintaining an appropriate volume of services.


That's in the comments section, not the body of the edited original blog post.

Is that clearer?

I've also edited my post above for some additional notes. If you wanted to share the information in the blog post, you could have linked directly to it instead of the edited version. if you wanted to quote the comments, why didn't you do that in your OP?

I'm not clear on what you hoped to communicate with this post.




BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
8. No, you're not clear what your intent is here.
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:20 PM
Oct 2018

The blog is self explanatory in my opinion.



No, I don't add commentary to every OP I post. You may not be familiar with PNHP but I am and find there is always respectful back and forth with those they do not always agree with in totality. This is often the case with O'Shea, he extends the same professional courtesy to PNHP.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
9. When you post an edited version of an edited version of a post
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:27 PM
Oct 2018

Then quote the comments on the edited edited post as the "point" then no, it appears that you don't understand the actual article, and are relying on the comments on the edited version.

You do understand why citations are important to an article, right? And you did know that PNHP left those out, right?

I am familiar with PNHP, it is an advocacy group, and as such is not an unbiased health policy research organization (as the truncated Obama quote shows). Are you familiar with Health Affairs? And as such, the importance of references and citations?

So if they don't "always agree in totality" which parts of O'Shea's original Health Affairs blog do you find incorrect? Some people who don't know what they are truly reading will say, "It speaks for itself, don't ask me."

If you simply want to share a PNHP article that appears to support an opinion of yours, please state the opinion that it supports.


BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
10. My title excerpt was not a misunderstanding of the content.
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:38 PM
Oct 2018

*On the other hand, the economic tools used in a model that already exists - a well designed single payer system (reduction of administrative excesses, global budgeting, negotiated rates, bulk purchasing, etc.) - do slow spending (value) without eliminating beneficial services (volume). So you can have greater value while maintaining an appropriate volume of services.

I share articles I see of interest and do not comment on them unless I believe it requires one.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
12. When you edit out content and change the title - that is commenting in and of itself
Thu Oct 11, 2018, 07:29 AM
Oct 2018

I take it you are not going to answer my question about what you think the significance of negotiating bulk pricing is, or what opinion you have that this paragraph supports.

I do question if you understand the point of the blog post, even in it's highly edited version on the website of a group that throws up some major red flags in terms of it's credibility on its conclusions.

The blog post does not give any new support to Sander's bill, if that's what you think.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
13. You do understand my edits, which are obvious, not subtle by design, are
Thu Oct 11, 2018, 09:13 AM
Oct 2018

allowed in GD? That is where I should have put my thread, my mistake, and if I had it would still be listed as I wanted to present the viewpoints contained within. That you perceive it as some nefarious plot and are either confounded by it and or suspicious is of no concern to me.

You have demonstrated your lack of familiarity with O'Shea which is fine but to suggest my title hashtag Single Payer was to imply O'Shea supported single payer is beyond hilarious.

His opinion is countered by the physicians response, which I found of great value, thus my continued support for single payer. All responses are on that page but you do have to read it through. The physician lists a link to O'Sheas piece. If O'Shea expresses in any way that PNHP has misrepresented him on any level, I will consider it, to date he has not. They have been commenting on differing policy opinions for years without animosity and I expect that to continue despite your concerns.

You're correct, I have no intention of discussing anything further with you.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
14. I'm not talking about where you put the OP
Thu Oct 11, 2018, 09:30 AM
Oct 2018

or what the rules are.

I'm talking about your own reasons for posting something that was so heavily edited.

My familiarity with O'Shea and Health Affairs is greater than you would imagine, so that observation is flawed.


John O’Shea, MD, is currently a practicing surgeon and senior fellow in the Center for Health Policy Studies at the Heritage Foundation in Washington, DC. Prior to taking his current position, he was a visiting scholar in health policy at the Brookings Institution. From 2011 to 2013, he served as a senior health policy adviser to the US House Committee on Energy and Commerce, where he helped draft the Medicare Access and CHIP Reauthorization Act of 2015 (MACRA) that replaced the Sustainable Growth Rate (SGR) formula for reimbursing physician services in the Medicare program.



I have no knowledge of O'Shea's opinon or lack of one on this post at PNHP, and don't expect him to publish one - as such I never stated that there was animosity on the part of O'Shea - strawman. I pointed out that they reprinted the blog post without the citations that the author (O'Shea) felt were important enough to link to in the text, and that in and of itself is a red flag for accuracy in research citations. Is that clearer?

"His opinion is countered by the physicians response," - OK, you finally got what I was saying... and it seems that you think that a retired physician who is lobbying for Single Payer's response to the blog "counters" that of the physican and reputable expert in health policy who authored the blog, because you support single payer, and will give more weight to any response that supports it.

I also pointed out other instance of PNHP editing an Obama quote to the point of eliminating the context that shows that Obama followed up with a statement about why Single Payer wasn't practical. You certainly don't want to discuss that, and I can see why.









BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
15. You have slandered PNHP suggesting they were mispresenting O'Shea. They have not
Thu Oct 11, 2018, 09:37 AM
Oct 2018

and he damn well would publish a complaint against them if he believed he was attacked. They have commented on each others collective policy opinions for years.

I'll pass on your alleged considerable knowledge.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
17. No, that's a strawman. I pointed out that they did not
Thu Oct 11, 2018, 09:47 AM
Oct 2018

include the citations that O'Shea included in the actual text of his blog.

And no, I didn't say it was an attack on O'Shea. Again - Strawman.

You had a very outsized emotional reaction to my observations, and want to rationalize that I am "attacking" you and PNHP when I am simply pointing out the facts.

I suggest you use the Ignore feature if you can't tolerate dissent or hard questions about your posts.



BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
18. You don't ask hard questions but please, continue to stroke your own ego.
Thu Oct 11, 2018, 09:52 AM
Oct 2018

Enjoy the remainder of the day.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
11. Amazing that you imagine O'Shea has ever been misrepresented by PNHP.
Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:44 PM
Oct 2018

Because he would never speak out for himself if he believed they did. The commentary that follows the blog that has you so concerned share none of your deep thoughts.

I'll leave you to ponder that.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
16. Here is something for you to ponder...
Thu Oct 11, 2018, 09:44 AM
Oct 2018

Advocacy organizations have a goal to promote an particular issue, and not to conduct research, or share research that doesn't promote their issue.

I would not use the Physicians for Life website as a source for reliable research or commentary on the effect of Roe v Wade on public health, even if they did cherry pick from a reputable source.

Would you?




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