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Mon Apr 15, 2019, 08:31 PM

Noam Chomsky: America's Extraterritorial Reach Is Its Own Scandal

* Excellent.


AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman in Boston, as we sit down with Noam Chomsky for a public conversation. I asked him about the arrest of Julian Assange.

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, the Assange arrest is scandalous in several respects. One of them is just the effort of governments—and it’s not just the U.S. government. The British are cooperating. Ecuador, of course, is now cooperating. Sweden, before, had cooperated. The efforts to silence a journalist who was producing materials that people in power didn’t want the rascal multitude to know about—OK?—that’s basically what happened. WikiLeaks was producing things that people ought to know about those in power. People in power don’t like that, so therefore we have to silence it. OK? This is the kind of thing, the kind of scandal, that takes place, unfortunately, over and over.

To take another example, right next door to Ecuador, in Brazil, where the developments that have gone on are extremely important. This is the most important country in Latin America, one of the most important in the world. Under the Lula government early in this millennium, Brazil was the most—maybe the most respected country in the world. It was the voice for the Global South under the leadership of Lula da Silva. Notice what happened. There was a coup, soft coup, to eliminate the nefarious effects of the labor party, the Workers’ Party. These are described by the World Bank—not me, the World Bank—as the “golden decade” in Brazil’s history, with radical reduction of poverty, a massive extension of inclusion of marginalized populations, large parts of the population—Afro-Brazilian, indigenous—who were brought into the society, a sense of dignity and hope for the population. That couldn’t be tolerated.

After Lula’s—after he left office, a kind of a “soft coup” takes place—I won’t go through the details, but the last move, last September, was to take Lula da Silva, the leading, the most popular figure in Brazil, who was almost certain to win the forthcoming election, put him in jail, solitary confinement, essentially a death sentence, 25 years in jail, banned from reading press or books, and, crucially, barred from making a public statement—unlike mass murderers on death row. This, in order to silence the person who was likely to win the election. He’s the most important political prisoner in the world. Do you hear anything about it?

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/noam-chomsky-americas-extraterritorial-reach-is-its-own-scandal/

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Reply Noam Chomsky: America's Extraterritorial Reach Is Its Own Scandal (Original post)
BeckyDem Apr 2019 OP
guillaumeb Apr 2019 #1
BeckyDem Apr 2019 #2
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #6
guillaumeb Apr 2019 #7
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #8
guillaumeb Apr 2019 #9
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #10
guillaumeb Apr 2019 #11
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #12
guillaumeb Apr 2019 #14
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #15
Judi Lynn Apr 2019 #3
BeckyDem Apr 2019 #4
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #5
BeckyDem Apr 2019 #13
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #16
BeckyDem Apr 2019 #17
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #18
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #19
BeckyDem Apr 2019 #20
Hassler Apr 2019 #21

Response to BeckyDem (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 08:38 PM

1. From the article:

The other scandal is just the extraterritorial reach of the United States, which is shocking.

I mean, why should the United States—why should any—no other state could possibly do it. But why should the United States have the power to control what others are doing elsewhere in the world?

I mean, it’s an outlandish situation. It goes on all the time. We never even notice it. At least there’s no comment on it.


From the earliest stages of US history, the Monroe Doctrine defined how US elites saw the role of the US. It started with the Americas, and was extended to the entire globe.

Over 700 overseas bases and military spending that far exceeds any other country.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:20 PM

2. Yes and we must change that reality and replace it with humanity as central to

our objectives.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:53 PM

6. Chomsky is being arbitrary as fuck in discussing "nations with extraterritorial reach"

because China to cite one example certainly says 'hi', but that's for another thread.

So you'd what; prefer to let the ICC handle Assange?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:00 PM

7. China is following the example of all Empires.

But at this point, the US empire is the dominant one.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:04 PM

8. Sure as hell doesn't feel like it...

So should extradition not be a thing at ALL in any circumstance? Or do we just have a problem with it because Assange has nailed himself to a faux cross again before the media??

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:05 PM

9. Extradition is goverened by treaties.

But speaking of imperial overreach is a different matter.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:17 PM

10. I'd like to speak about espionage and ratfucking elections and acting as

a blackmailing information broker under the guise of "journalism", but we'll table that for now...

How is this an example of "imperial overreach"? Did we drag his filthy ass out of the embassy or something? Which law is being broken in requesting extradition for Assange? Ironically jail is the safest place for him right now because I assure you his life isn't worth $10 on the street...

Why is an intellectual like Chomsky missing the actual story here, which is Julian Assange, however pure and high-minded he started out over a decade ago, is now a fucking criminal extortionist/data thief/agitprop peddler acting DIRECTLY on behalf of the Russian Intelligence Services (which Assange doesn't even bother to pretend to deny anymore)?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:51 PM

11. Understood. My suggestion is to start a post about it.

Assange claims to be a journalist. And he might make that case.


edited to add:

but Chomsky also addresses US interference in Latin America.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:34 PM

12. Greenwald floated that "COUP!" balloon about Dilma and it didn't fly

So Chomsky wants to make the same assertion with conjecture and circumstantial-at-best evidence? Good luck with that shit; which would be funny if Chomsky wasn't bending over backwards to explain how Russia's *proven and documented* ratfucking of Hillary Clinton didn't make any difference in the election result...

And lemme guess -- Tomorrow, Maduro will be some glorious hero of the leftist revolution under siege from the Imperial Evil Great Satan U.S. and pay no attention to the decomposing piles of protesters who 'accidentally' got shot, newspaper staffs rotting in jail, a completely dead economy replaced by a black market, medical aid he won't allow into the country and hundreds of thousands of former middle-class people who have to dumpster dive for today's sustenance...

Noam is cancelled...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:41 PM

14. Does the US have a right to interfere in the affairs of another country?

And does US interference ever hurt? The list of American countries that the US has invaded is long, as is the list that have suffered from US interference.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:59 AM

15. Does Russia have the right to fuck with us? Does China, Israel, India, etc?

Because if it's wrong and immoral when WE do it then the same rule applies when other world powers do it elsewhere... Like I said, Chomsky is being selective as all balls in his outrage and it looks like he's playing an agenda.

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Response to BeckyDem (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:04 PM

3. What has happened to Lula is nothing short of evil. That's how the fascists won. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:34 AM

4. Totally.

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Response to BeckyDem (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:50 PM

5. GMAFB... If Assange want to fuck with us we'll fuck with him right back...

I'm disappointed to see Noam carry water for a Kremlinist piece of shit like Assange. Odd that Noam didn't see fit to mention Assange publishing the very real personal details of innocent people in the Sony hack... Odd that he didn't mention Assange outing GLBT folks in Saudi Fucking Arabia or working for Assad's re-election or any of a hundred other things... There's this weird subset of the left who still see Assange and Wikileaks as their circa 2008 version before they sold out to Moscow.

And to make things worse he props up that Greenwaldian "coup in Brazil" conspiracy theory with Lula?? For Christ's sake, Chomsky is supposed to be smarter than this and Goodman is supposed to be better than this. DN started with promise but now it's only slightly better than the leftist version of Infowars...

Tune in tomorrow as Chomsky mourns over the tragedy of Alan Garcia the martyr...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:40 PM

13. Chomsky carries water for no one.

He is smarter, not any doubt about that.

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Response to BeckyDem (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:01 AM

16. I hate to break it to you, but

anyone at this point still whoring that "KremlinGate is a overblown myth" deza is either really ignorant, hasn't bothered to keep up with the story, or they're getting their strings pulled directly from Moscow.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 02:44 PM

17. You don't have anything to break for me. and most especially Chomsky.

Anyone even suggesting he is getting his strings pulled by Moscow should be embarrassed.

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Response to BeckyDem (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:54 PM

18. His actions speak for themselves... What other conclusion are we to make?

On the day that the redacted Mueller report gets released, no less?

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Response to BeckyDem (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:59 AM

19. Chomsky was unavailable for comment:

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Response to BeckyDem (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:39 PM

20. Chomsky: Arrest of Assange Is "Scandalous" and Highlights Shocking Extraterritorial Reach of U.S.



NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, the Assange arrest is scandalous in several respects. One of them is just the effort of governments—and it’s not just the U.S. government. The British are cooperating. Ecuador, of course, is now cooperating. Sweden, before, had cooperated. The efforts to silence a journalist who was producing materials that people in power didn’t want the rascal multitude to know about—OK?—that’s basically what happened. WikiLeaks was producing things that people ought to know about those in power. People in power don’t like that, so therefore we have to silence it. OK? This is the kind of thing, the kind of scandal, that takes place, unfortunately, over and over.

To take another example, right next door to Ecuador, in Brazil, where the developments that have gone on are extremely important. This is the most important country in Latin America, one of the most important in the world. Under the Lula government early in this millennium, Brazil was the most—maybe the most respected country in the world. It was the voice for the Global South under the leadership of Lula da Silva. Notice what happened. There was a coup, soft coup, to eliminate the nefarious effects of the labor party, the Workers’ Party. These are described by the World Bank—not me, the World Bank—as the “golden decade” in Brazil’s history, with radical reduction of poverty, a massive extension of inclusion of marginalized populations, large parts of the population—Afro-Brazilian, indigenous—who were brought into the society, a sense of dignity and hope for the population. That couldn’t be tolerated.

After Lula’s—after he left office, a kind of a “soft coup” take place—I won’t go through the details, but the last move, last September, was to take Lula da Silva, the leading, the most popular figure in Brazil, who was almost certain to win the forthcoming election, put him in jail, solitary confinement, essentially a death sentence, 25 years in jail, banned from reading press or books, and, crucially, barred from making a public statement—unlike mass murderers on death row. This, in order to silence the person who was likely to win the election. He’s the most important political prisoner in the world. Do you hear anything about it?

Well, Assange is a similar case: We’ve got to silence this voice. You go back to history. Some of you may recall when Mussolini’s fascist government put Antonio Gramsci in jail. The prosecutor said, “We have to silence this voice for 20 years. Can’t let it speak.” That’s Assange. That’s Lula. There are other cases. That’s one scandal.

The other scandal is just the extraterritorial reach of the United States, which is shocking. I mean, why should the United States—why should any—no other state could possibly do it. But why should the United States have the power to control what others are doing elsewhere in t

he world? I mean, it’s an outlandish situation. It goes on all the time. We never even notice it. At least there’s no comment on it.


https://www.democracynow.org/2019/4/12/chomsky_arrest_of_assange_is_scandalous

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Response to BeckyDem (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:10 PM

21. Thanks, Noam, we'll get back to you after we throw the treasonous shithead out of the WH.

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