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Wed Sep 9, 2020, 05:15 AM

Is Trump Planning a Coup d'tat?


Many observers—including Republicans—worry that he is. They’re organizing now to stop him.
By Sasha Abramsky
SEPTEMBER 7, 2020



Illustration by Victor Juhasz.

This summer, shortly after scores of camo-wearing, heavily armed federal agents descended on Portland, Ore., to attack protesters, Charles Fried, Ronald Reagan’s solicitor general, pondered the implications of what he was seeing on the streets. What he saw scared him; he remembered the use of paramilitaries by fascist leaders in 1930s Europe, where he was born, and he feared he was now witnessing a slide into paramilitarism in the United States. (His family fled the Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia.) Fried felt that President Trump was using the Department of Homeland Security and other government agencies in a way that was “very menacing. You might as well put brown shirts on them. It’s a very bad thing.”
A Harvard Law School professor who still counts himself as a Republican and a board member of groups such as the Campaign Legal Center, Checks and Balances, and Republicans for the Rule of Law, Fried has grown increasingly worried in recent months about Trump’s willingness to stir chaos and violence as an electoral strategy in the run-up to November’s vote and about the willingness of his attorney general, William Barr, to burn the country’s democratic institutions to the ground to preserve this administration’s hold on power. Like earlier authoritarians, Trump could, Fried fears, utilize “agents provocateurs, getting right-wing people to infiltrate left-oriented and by-and-large peaceful demonstrations to turn them violent to thereby justify intervention.”

Fried, a student of history who chooses his words carefully, has concluded that Trump and his team are “certainly racist, contemptuous of ordinary democratic and constitutional norms, and they believe their cause, their interests, are really the interests of the nation and therefore anything that keeps them in power is in the national interest. Does that make you a fascist? It kind of looks that way, doesn’t it?”

Michael Steele, a former chair of the Republican National Committee, has come to share Fried’s conviction that Trump is a threat to the Republic, although Steele believes the Trump cult is more about naked political opportunism than any grand fascist ideology.

More:
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/trump-coup-elections-gop/

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Reply Is Trump Planning a Coup d'tat? (Original post)
Judi Lynn Sep 9 OP
TreasonousBastard Sep 9 #1
wnylib Sep 9 #13
TreasonousBastard Sep 9 #23
wnylib Sep 9 #26
ihas2stinkyfeet Sep 9 #2
pazzyanne Sep 9 #4
ihas2stinkyfeet Sep 9 #6
Nikki28 Sep 9 #3
brush Sep 9 #9
sandensea Sep 9 #5
ihas2stinkyfeet Sep 9 #7
sandensea Sep 9 #34
ihas2stinkyfeet Sep 9 #35
brush Sep 9 #8
infullview Sep 9 #15
brush Sep 9 #18
Fiendish Thingy Sep 9 #21
infullview Sep 9 #24
Fiendish Thingy Sep 9 #28
infullview Sep 9 #29
Fiendish Thingy Sep 9 #30
infullview Sep 9 #31
Fiendish Thingy Sep 9 #32
infullview Sep 9 #33
beachbumbob Sep 9 #10
ashredux Sep 9 #11
Le Roi de Pot Sep 9 #12
duforsure Sep 9 #14
CapnSteve Sep 9 #16
Sherman A1 Sep 9 #17
JohnnyRingo Sep 9 #19
Judi Lynn Sep 9 #36
Fiendish Thingy Sep 9 #20
bucolic_frolic Sep 9 #22
wnylib Sep 9 #25
dalton99a Sep 9 #27
onetexan Sep 10 #37

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 05:55 AM

1. I don't doubt it, but I can't imagine he or anyone around him

could pull it off.

We are not Germany or Italy in thirties with a terrible economic breakdown worse than our Depression and fragile democracies. And with a real fear of Stalin taking over.

No, I hope we are strong enough to resist that.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:28 AM

13. What specific form of resistance do you envision?

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Response to wnylib (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 08:04 AM

23. Stasis-- the resistance of just ignoring them and going about our business...

It's really, really hard to get a movement going when most people aren't directly involved. The Pullman strike (the 1894 one) was a bloody mess and just set the labor movement back years. Big black eye.

Back then William Jennings Bryan had the golden voice of populism, almost socialism, and a huge following, but the Populist Party went up in smoke.

Now, those were left-wing movements, you say. Well, as powerful as they were, McCarthy, J. Edgar and others ran into walls of quiet resistance when they went too far.

And where is the Tea Party today?

What is it, 10% of both conservatives and liberals are the ones we hear-- the ones with microphones, big mouths, and the free time to use them. The other 80% just want to go to work, raise their kids and be left alone. Thoughts of revolution don't interest them. And their simple resistance will stop the fascists.

(At least I hope it will.)

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 08:28 AM

26. The Tea Party is still around and still in office.

They just disassociate themselves from the term now, but hold and promote the same politics. One of them is the representative in my very weirdly gerrymandered district and has been there since 2010.

In another post here, I already described the article on this topic by conservative David Brooks so I won't repeat it in this post except to say that his article calls upon that 80% that you referenced to refuse to accept a fraudulent win claim by Trump before all votes are counted. He calls on them to break their silence and demand a full, accurate vote count.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 06:45 AM

2. i dont think it is so much a plan as his natural tendencies.

 

i dont think he has enough still connected neurons to plan what he will have for lunch. he is running on habit.
but he does push the buttons of the dictator's playbook.
and the govt is stacked w other wanna be fascists.

but i think he isnt rly gonna succeed.

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Response to ihas2stinkyfeet (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:05 AM

4. It isn't just tRump we need to worry about.

Stephen Miller, et al. are in the curtains pulling the strings. I have always believed that Miller is the brains behind what is happening.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:11 AM

6. i concur.

 

he may be the only one not in it for the money.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 06:59 AM

3. I am with them

I think and have thought for awhile this is what they are doing. Trump, his party and his tearing down our institutions. I think it is almost complete. They could not pull it off if it were not for the Senate Republicans and them not kicking him out of office when he has committed every crime imaginable and than you have a mob boss Bill Barr who is carrying out his orders. The supreme court is in his pocket,he has Putin already meddling in the election and he is following Putin playbook on how to take over a country and I also think he will not leave and make sure his daughter is the next president unless we can stop them. I am fearful we can't because right now he holds all the power and can use it how he see fit.

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Response to Nikki28 (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:15 AM

9. Nah. See post 8.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:10 AM

5. Cheeto must daydream with a Latin America-style self-coup all the time

But as Latin autocrats could tell him, he'd need military connivance for that - and that, our brave men and women in uniform would never allow.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:12 AM

7. hard to get the generals to shoot at their own ppl when you have been calling them

 

dopes, losers, etc since day 1.

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Response to ihas2stinkyfeet (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 01:36 PM

34. Here's hoping said generals can get their chance to drag Orange Amin by the hair plugs

They may have to.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #34)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 01:37 PM

35. i'd drain my bank account to see that.

 

from your fingers to Her ears, sns.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:13 AM

8. He can fantisize all he wants but there are way more people...

in the Secret Service, US Marshals, the Capitol Police and others who are loyal to the Constitution, not trump's fat, orange ass.

Not to worry, if he losses he'll be out on his ass quick fast and in a hurry if he tries to resist leaving the WH.

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Response to brush (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:37 AM

15. What happens if he gets just enough electoral college votes to win?

Even though SCOTUS voted in favor of states 'faithless electors' rules, there still 18 states that allow electors to go rogue. We don't have a clue where 800 million dollars of his campaign money went.... for all we know there are dozens of electors with a number to a private Swiss bank account that are just waiting to vote for the orange asshole. Swing states that allow faithless electors include WI, OH, FL, VA to list just a few.

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Response to infullview (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:43 AM

18. The EC is a flaw in our system that needs to change.

If trump somehow wins the EC again without winning the numerical vote, we're just doomed as a nation to four more years of him.

Nothing can be done about it if it happens but I don't think that's going to happen twice in a row. Time is up for trump.

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Response to infullview (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:50 AM

21. Pelosi doesn't have to accept faithless electors

And if Biden maintains a 7% popular vote margin, he has 99% probability of winning the EC, so moot point.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 08:13 AM

24. Pelosi doesn't have the power to reject an EC vote.

They go to the house and senate and if either one accepts the vote it is counted. Given what we now have for a Senate, I'd say we are in trouble.

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Response to infullview (Reply #24)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 09:08 AM

28. She absolutely does have the power

The EV’s are certified on January 6, after the new House and Senate are seated on January 3.

All it takes is one objection each in the house and senate to suspend the certification of the EV’s, Pending agreement by both bodies. They could agree to accept an alternate slate of electors from a state, throw the decision to the House (not good), or Pelosi can delay the process past January 20, at which point she becomes president, at least temporarily.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 09:23 AM

29. Are you sure?

"Since 1887, 3 U.S.C. 15 sets the method for objections to electoral votes. During the Joint Session, Members of Congress may object to individual electoral votes or to state returns as a whole. An objection must be declared in writing and signed by at least one Representative and one Senator. In the case of an objection, the Joint Session recesses and each chamber considers the objection separately in a session which cannot last more than two hours with each Member speaking for no more than five minutes. After each house votes on whether or not to accept the objection, the Joint Session reconvenes and both chambers disclose their decisions. If they agree to the objection, the votes in question are not counted. If either chamber does not agree with the objection, the votes are counted."

Source:
https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/

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Response to infullview (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 09:33 AM

30. Reminder - this process occurs on January 6, after the new House and Senate are seated.

So, if the Dems take the Senate, they can sustain any objections.

Also, several of the swing states that don’t have “faithless elector” restrictions (and remember, You suggested in post #15 that Biden electors Would somehow be bribed to switch to Trump) have Dem Governors and Secretaries of State, who could refuse to certify their state’s slate of electors/certify an alternate slate.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 10:07 AM

31. "if the Dems win the Senate"

To that I have to say that never in my life imagined that a jerk like tRump would be president. So I would say to you not to take anything for granted knowing what a slime bag the current resident of the white house is.

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Response to infullview (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 11:06 AM

32. How would Trump stop the new House and Senate from being seated? Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 11:27 AM

33. He wouldn't, it's your assumptions that the Dems will be in control that I question

You have no idea what kind of chicanery may be involved. It is dangerous to assume that a positive outcome will happen. We must expect the absolute worst and be totally on gard this time. He's co-opted the Senate, the Judiciary (including the Supreme Court), and the Post office. He's also got backing from Russia. What on earth makes you think he's going to just roll over? I don't care what the polls show - he's fucking dangerous!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:24 AM

10. won;t happen as the US military will not allow it, Their allegiance is to the US constitution and

its taken seriously

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:24 AM

11. The Armchair Soothsayer says...

Armchair Soothsayer

Yesterday Mr. Trump was highly critical of the military leadership in the Pentagon. He basically called them “warmongers” and tools of the defense industry. Trump continued with this line of thinking to claim the military brass didn’t like him.

Prior to his comments, the head of the Joint Chiefs made it clear in a public statement, that the military would not intervene in the elections at all.

Trump went on to claim that the soldiers themselves still loved him. Thus, he was setting up a rift between the command structure at the top, and the enlisted men that make up the fighting force of the US military.

This leads the Armchair Soothsayer to venture out onto the “Limb of Prognostication.”

Trump will claim the election is fraudulent and that he actually won. He will say fake ballots were used to show him loosing. He will instruct the military, and every other law enforcement entity under his control, to come to his aid as he nullifies the election.

Trump, in his confusion and madness, believes he can split the command leadership of the military from the men they command. Simply put, he will attempt a Coup d'état. It will never materialize and will fail miserably. Yet, the confusion and damage to our democratic process will be great.

This was either a vision of the future, are the effects of too much caffeine. Only time will tell.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:25 AM

12. I wouldn't be surprised RWNJs vote early and show up early at polling

 

Stations with gun. And even shoot up a few

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:29 AM

14. What I think Putin and trump may try

Is have a staged major event happen, like Putin has done in Russia, then trump claim China and Biden are behind it with Bill Barr helping them promote it that way to attack the election with. If it does happen Barr, Trump, and Putin are behind it. Trump could also threaten war to use like W did falsely with Iraq. If trump corruptly gets in again , he will take over with no more real elections again. We'll become like Russia and Venezuela like Putin and Maduro have done.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:38 AM

16. He barely has object permanence...

...he lives in the moment. He believes that what he says right now is what people will believe and what he said (e.g. losers and suckers) in the past never happened.

Some of the press are still trying to normalize him, and therefore contribute to his gaslighting.

Remember his crimes. Remember his disgusting acts. He is impeached. Vote him out.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:42 AM

17. I have no doubt that he will try to contest

the results of the election. The groundwork has been laid rather extensively.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:43 AM

19. Very good article.

As most pieces from The Nation. Everyone should read it in it's entirety.

Thanx for posting.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 04:53 PM

36. They do have a wonderful reputation. Can never forget a contributor, Charles Holman,

who was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered by Nixon's dictator, Pinochet, in Chile.

Thanks for your comment.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:45 AM

20. Oh FFS, him and what army? The army he calls "losers" and "suckers"?

The military has already been making contingency plans to disobey unlawful orders.

Trump will likely sow chaos between now and Biden’s inauguration, but there will be no coup.

Biden better make sure there are consequences for Trump and Barr’s chaos and destruction (hint: Independent Prosecutor).

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 07:54 AM

22. Worst case scenario

The military won't follow him, various enforcement jurisdictions of executive branch will go one way or another, and not do very much. That leaves Trump with the Space Force, isolated Brooks Brothers riots, ad hoc Homeland Security, and his gun humper supporters. I think states, national guard, and federal law officers outside Washington will stay in line and support a transition peacefully.

Wild card would be if Trump has mercenaries that are unknown, or has foreign support we can't fathom.

To stage a coup would require enforcement to back it up, it would require control of Washington and the airwaves, against the blue areas of the country. More revolution than coup, really. I doubt any of it will get worse than spotty, weak, insurrections here or there.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 08:18 AM

25. Conservative journalist, David Brooks, had an

Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2020, 08:52 AM - Edit history (1)

editorial piece in the Buffalo News yesterday on this topic, titled, "What will you do if Trump loses the election but refuses to leave?"

EDIT to add that the article also appears at Alternet and MSM.

He gives a very realistic and plausible description of how it could happen and how various political factions would likely react. He starts with election night leads initially putting Trump ahead with in person vote tallies while Trump and his media supporters declare him the winner, before mail in ballots are counted. He goes on to describe Trump and his enablers and supporters claiming that Democrats are trying to steal the election by counting fraudulent mail in votes. Trump's belligerent supporters then take to the streets with guns to "enforce" his win while the more vocal people on the far left also react by going to the streets.

In the chaos, Brooks says Trump could delay a result indefinitely with challenges, obscuring who won and trying to stop vote counts a la 2000 in Florida except that this would involve several states. Brooks asks who will stop Trump from claiming that he has won reelection, and how?

Brooks calls upon the people of all political persuasions to recognize that this would be more than a party issue. It would be a democracy and constitutional issue. He hopes that people who are still capable of seeing right from wrong clearly would know that this is wrong. He calls on people who have remained out of the open political fray to rise to the level of true patriotism if this happens and refuse to accept it by demanding a full and accurate vote count before a winner is declared.

He ends by saying that it is time - now - to think about what each of us will do.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2020, 08:36 AM

27. Kick

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Sep 10, 2020, 07:03 AM

37. No. A coup is a military takeover, so the Con wouldn't allow them to take over since he won't be in

charge. Beside, he's pissed off the military with his gross disrespect why would they help him? I also believe in the Joint chiefs of staff when they came out several weeks ago saying the military would not be a part of the election.

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