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Sat Nov 21, 2020, 06:45 AM

"Impeach the president again" opinion piece, Boston Globe

www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11/21/opinion/impeach-president-again/


The meat of the article is here:

"If ever a presidential act qualified for impeachment, it would be openly trying to reverse an election outcome. While it sounds almost bizarre to make such a suggestion when the president’s term is over in two months, the move would have a useful byproduct: The Senate could prevent Trump from running again in 2024.

The impeachment clause of the Constitution allows the Senate to impose two possible punishments: “removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States.” While two-thirds of the Senate is required for removal from office in an impeachment trial, precedents involving the impeachment of judges indicate that only a majority vote would be required to make the penalty a disqualification from future office.

In other words, the House of Representatives could impeach Trump before his term ends, and the Senate could take up the matter after he leaves office. The question of removal would be moot at that point, but disqualification would still be on the table, and the Senate could determine that a majority vote would suffice."

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Reply "Impeach the president again" opinion piece, Boston Globe (Original post)
RockCreek Nov 2020 OP
madaboutharry Nov 2020 #1
Sherman A1 Nov 2020 #2
Hekate Nov 2020 #13
KPN Nov 2020 #37
better Nov 2020 #35
Sherman A1 Nov 2020 #39
better Nov 2020 #41
Sherman A1 Nov 2020 #42
Marcuse Nov 2020 #3
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2020 #14
Marcuse Nov 2020 #28
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2020 #32
FreepFryer Nov 2020 #4
Escurumbele Nov 2020 #5
GopherGal Nov 2020 #16
mopinko Nov 2020 #6
Pobeka Nov 2020 #23
mopinko Nov 2020 #27
wnylib Nov 2020 #34
mopinko Nov 2020 #36
wnylib Nov 2020 #38
mopinko Nov 2020 #40
wnylib Nov 2020 #7
FakeNoose Nov 2020 #9
wnylib Nov 2020 #17
The Animator Nov 2020 #26
wnylib Nov 2020 #30
oldsoftie Nov 2020 #12
Pobeka Nov 2020 #24
wnylib Nov 2020 #33
Pobeka Nov 2020 #44
BComplex Nov 2020 #46
Illumination Nov 2020 #8
marble falls Nov 2020 #10
FailureToCommunicate Nov 2020 #11
Tarc Nov 2020 #15
NJCher Nov 2020 #29
dware Nov 2020 #31
Tarc Nov 2020 #43
JGug1 Nov 2020 #18
ClusterFreak Nov 2020 #19
ToxMarz Nov 2020 #20
mdbl Nov 2020 #21
Jon King Nov 2020 #22
Paladin Nov 2020 #25
BComplex Nov 2020 #45

Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 06:51 AM

1. The republicans are too cowardly even for option #2.

They live in fear of “the base” and tremble at the thought of a mean Trump tweet.

They’re as pathetic and immoral as Trump.

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 07:00 AM

2. I agree, but don't think it serves

The long term interest of the country. It would just rile up the “angry we done been wronged“ nut job base and lead to all sorts of crap 💩.

He leaves office in January and age/health may decide the issue long before the next election.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:31 AM

13. Everything riles up his base. This has to stop.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #13)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:52 AM

37. This!

Exactly how, on an individual basis, we end up with 2 year old adults: parents who don’t want to rile up their tantrum thrower.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:21 AM

35. I agree with Hekate here, it has to stop. And that means WE need to stop it. Not age or health. US.

First and foremost, we must stop letting fear of riling up the republican base have any weight in our assessment of what's in the long-term interest of the country. It is, quite simply, completely divorced from the reality in which we have all lived for at least the last 12 years, which has shown us beyond ANY doubt that the RW media echo chamber will rile up the republican base, no matter what we do.

RW media exists to keep their base riled up.
Not accurately informed. Riled up.
That is their business model.

For us to ignore this plainly and painfully evident fact is negligence, and further, it is self-defeating.

We tried placating the conservative base in 2009, by implementing the individual mandate in the ACA, and we all know that RW media immediately used it to rile up their base, despite the individual mandate being the Conservative policy alternative to the Liberal policy of an employer mandate in "HillaryCare" in the 90's. They didn't rile up their base because they genuinely opposed the policy. They riled them up because that gave them the best chance of seizing power. That doing so required abandoning their supposed deeply held principles was of precisely zero concern.

We cannot keep neglecting to govern responsibly out of concern for riling up a base is all too happy to abandon all guiding principle in pursuit of "triggering libtards". And that is the reality in which we live.

Lastly, we really must recognize that one thing, above ALL else, is in the long-term interest of the country.
And that is upholding the rule of law.

And that must be applied to all people, not just ones it won't hurt wingnuts' fee-fees to see held accountable.

The Founders knew that age and health could easily dispose of whatever threat any president might pose, at any moment, but they left us the power to impeach and bar them from holding future public office, which I for one attribute to their understanding that the precedent set BY such actions serves as a deterrent to repetitions of such abuses by any future president.

And it's for that reason that we absolutely should impeach this bastard again.
Because it needs to be done to protect the long-term interest of the country.

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Response to better (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 12:07 PM

39. Okay

What do you anticipate as a body count?

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #39)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 12:37 PM

41. What was the body count from impeaching him the first time?

Now don't get me wrong.

I can concede that impeaching again might conceivably not be worthwhile on the basis of the slim chance of a conviction by the Senate, and the potentially rather good chance that his many legal liabilities might very well preclude him being able to run again. I do think there would be some merit to him being impeached again for this conduct even without it resulting in removal, simply in terms of Congress going on record as deeming the conduct impeachable, but there are valid arguments to be made about whether it's worth it or not. Especially in terms of it getting in the way of more immediately pressing needs like COVID relief.

What I'm really opposing here is the very notion of allowing fear of riling up his base dissuade us from any legal or legislative action that we deem appropriate and/or called for, because neglecting to take any such action will not prevent his base from being riled up, but will hinder progress, and very possibly cost us support on our own side.

Bottom line, his base will be riled up whether there's any basis in reality for it or not, so screw 'em.
Do what we deem called for, their outrage be damned, because we're going to face their outrage regardless.

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Response to better (Reply #41)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 12:51 PM

42. You are entitled to your opinion

and I really want this Son of A ............ to be totally unable to ever be able to run for office again, preferably naked on a street corner selling pencils to pay off his debts, but I just don't see the need to impeach him at this point as it doesn't get you anything and as far as body count, we have already seen the "charming" group in Michigan get themselves worked up enough to plan to do some horrendous things.

Age and health will likely solve the problem of him running again without creating a whole lot of potential drama that serves nothing positive.

Yeah, the base is going to be riled up, but do we need to add fuel to the fire? I don't think so.

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 07:28 AM

3. Well, he can't be impeached after January 20.

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Response to Marcuse (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:39 AM

14. Yes, he can. Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:59 AM

28. Private citizens are indicted, not impeached.

18 U.S.C. § 1752

a)  Whoever--

(1)  knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so;

(2)  knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;

(3)  knowingly, and with the intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, obstructs or impedes ingress or egress to or from any restricted building or grounds;  or

(4)  knowingly engages in any act of physical violence against any person or property in any restricted building or grounds;

or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

[link:https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-1752.html|



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Response to Marcuse (Reply #28)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:06 AM

32. He is subject to both. Nt

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 07:32 AM

4. Disqualification is only voted upon following a successful removal vote by a supermajority.

The Senate may only impose a judgment of removal from office or removal and disqualification.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212116567


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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 07:34 AM

5. It drives me nuts when I hear or read about "the future political life of trump"

His future must be jail, this guy needs to pay for all his crimes. I don't understand why people continue to talk about his plans for a trump-TV, or a run on 2024...What the heck? Where is the talk about the high possibility he, and hopefully some of his kids will end up in jail?

The talk of Don Jr running...please, who in their right mind would vote for that idiot?

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:45 AM

16. "in their right mind"

Does this apply to the 73,000,000 COVIDiots and MAGAts that voted for Orange Jabba the Hutt?

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 07:40 AM

6. i agree.

messing w the incoming admin, too. iow, refusing to accept the results and actively refusing to transfer power.

keep him tied up, and out of mischief as a lame duck.
and if the new senate gets to vote, and we take those georgia seats, he is done in politics.
a definitive nail in his coffin.
and a fitting end to his presidency.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:02 AM

23. That' my line of thinking too. Hit him with emoluments this time for the impeachment.

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Response to Pobeka (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:27 AM

27. couldnt hurt, but

keep it short and sweet.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:18 AM

34. Even with Georgia, the new

Senate would not get enough votes to convict.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:40 AM

36. maybe, maybe not.

i suspect romney wouldnt be the only one w the guts once he's gone.
and banned from twitter, like he will be once out of office.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #36)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 12:02 PM

38. Enough for a 2/3 majority??

Not likely.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #38)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 12:11 PM

40. i dunno. depends on how many of them

can read the writing on the wall.
i think there may be enough that arent brain dead yet.

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 07:51 AM

7. It would be pointless. He's not

going to be convicted in a Senate trial. And he's not going to run in 2024.

Mary Trump explained the psychology of why he won't run again. His ego will not let him risk the humility of another public loss.

Besides, he won't be in any phyical or mental state in four years to get through a campaign. He will continue to be an attention seeking menace and promoter of conspiracy theories.

His spawn and spawns-in-law, though, will most likely run for offices.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:12 AM

9. He deserves to be impeached, yes, but it would be pointless

I don't think much is happening in Washington now anyway. Who even does anything during a lame duck session? And right now until January 20th is the lamest duck there ever was. Congress will be taking a nap for 8 weeks.

We need to focus on the Executive Branch such as it is. Chump is determined to destroy everything in his path and go down swinging. Don't trust that guy for one second.




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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:48 AM

17. Yes, he will continue to be destructive

right down to the end. We need to prepare for many possible contingencies because he is so capable of doing any off the rails thing that comes into his head (on his own, or on "advice" from his mob colleagues and bosses).

Authoritarians often use chaos to maintain control. When people don't know what to expect, it's easier pull things off. For all the obsession with ordiliness and record keeping that we hear about in Nazi Germany, Hitler thrived on chaos among the people around him, pitting them against each other.

Think about supervisors you have had. Or teachers in grade school and high school. Some of them give no clear expectations and then come down hard on "violations" of unspoken rules. "You should have known! Do I have to spell out everything for you?" It's paralyzing, which is exactly what they want in order to keep people anxious, eager to please, and afraid of offending the boss or teacher.

Unpredictability is Trump's "trump" card.



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Response to wnylib (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:10 AM

26. It just occurred to me, one possible grift would be a public speaking tour.

Traditionally, Ex-Presidents have made a lot of money that way. I doubt any one with deep pockets would be willing to pay top dollar to hear him whine, but I’m sure every toothless inbred would tithe an offering to see their hate lord.

He’ll fill their heads with conspiracy theories, get them riled up all over again, incite them to violence, give them marching orders, and turn them loose. fffffun..

We can’t allow that to happen. He needs to face justice for all his crimes. Especially 250,000 counts of negligent homicide.

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Response to The Animator (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:00 AM

30. If he's not in prison after leaving

the White House, I could easily see him doing tour rallies for money and to create public opinion that he is innocent of any and all accusations and charges brought against him.

He will likely do vengeance tours to undermine the Biden administration and stir up anger. I can see him holding rallies to attract white supremacists, which would also attract counter protesters. He or his followers would incite riots so he could proclaim Biden as incapable of leading and governing.

Investigations, charges, and trials take time to play out. He would use that time to bolster support for his own innocence and destroy as much as possible any peace under Biden.

It really is very unfortunate that he recovered from covid.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:29 AM

12. It really IS pointless.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:05 AM

24. I have heard if he's under impeachment it limits actions his admin can take?

If so then that's possibly worth it, even if the senate won't impeach. An impeachment investigation could last about 60 days before it goes to the Senate.

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Response to Pobeka (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:14 AM

33. I'm wondering where you heard that.

The impeachment proceedings at the end of last year and beginning of this year do not seem to have limited his actions while they were in process.

An impeachment now would not even distract him. He would just ignore it as he did before. It would distract us, but not him.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #33)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 01:28 PM

44. I would've seen it here at DU, but I posed it as a question because I'm unsure of the details.

May be a worthless legal pursuit, except it would be another thing that would distract Trump. For him it's all about his "perfect" image. If he did nothing but tweet about another "witchhunt" for the next 60 days that'd be a win for us.

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Response to Pobeka (Reply #44)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:39 AM

46. I believe it limits what the Senate can do while he's being impeached. I could

be mistaken too, however. There were so many things going on with the impeachment, it's hard to keep it all straight.

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 07:54 AM

8. Right. Try to keep the toddler preoccupied with impeachment so he doesn't get into trouble

 

elsewhere! He's like a giant zit that needs popping!..... ..... ..... .....

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)


Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:22 AM

11. Yes! There HAVE to be consequences for impeachable actions, or nothing will ever change!

See: Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Trump...

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:43 AM

15. Pointless, you'd never get the 2/3rds

and if you don't get that far, there'd be no penalty phase vote.

A shit take by a once-good newspaper.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 10:31 AM

29. re-read

this para from op. Here it is; you don't even have to scroll.

In other words, the House of Representatives could impeach Trump before his term ends, and the Senate could take up the matter after he leaves office.

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Response to NJCher (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:01 AM

31. Yes, they could impeach again and take up the matter after the new Senate is seated,

that still doesn't change the fact the a 2/3rd's supermajority is needed in the Senate to convict and remove, and, as it stands, there is no way that the R's would go along with this, at least not enough to get to the magic 2/3rd's needed.

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Response to NJCher (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 12:51 PM

43. Armchair Civics people are sad. Yes,. I read that part

You can't game the system like this, it will be laughed at by Constitutional scholars, and no court in the land would uphold it.

Also;

The question of removal would be moot at that point


What the fuck? Do you think that since he is no longer in office, they can just skip the part that requires 2/3rds and go to the simple majority penalty phase?

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:51 AM

18. Impeach Again

All very nice, except that the Senate would NOT remove Trump. Trump may be the ONLY hope the Republicans have of winning the White House back in 2024. Romney probably cannot get the nomination and if he does, he would likely be beaten. Nikki Haley *might* be able to win because of getting women's votes but, since she wouldn't do or say the things that Trump says, she would have to stand on the Republican policies. Those policies are not well accepted by Americans. Republicans don't win by running on their policies.

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:52 AM

19. Do it. n/t

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:58 AM

20. The house can impeach the president without the Senate

Even if the senate doesn't eventually convict him, it would hang over him for the next 60 days and it may be a way to throw a wrench in any pardon plans.

"he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment"

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 08:58 AM

21. Impeachment will keep the focus on the actual perpetraitors of lawlessness

the trump administration and all it's minions are lawbreakers.

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:02 AM

22. I disagree, we want him to say 2024...

No, we want Trump to pretend to run in 2024. Of course he has no intention of it. Without the incumbency to pay his expenses he would run a broke campaign, the change in demographics in the suburbs guarantees he never wins key swing states again, and how much he further motivated black voters means they would show up today to vote against him in 4 years if that is what it took, he would lose by 12-15 million votes. And he knows it. Saying 2024 is just another grift from the rubes to send him money.

But we want him to pretend to run so it destroys the Repub field. No one can get a serious campaign going while Trump pretends to be interested. If he subs in a surrogate at a late moment, they would have the Trump tarnish without his entire cult....again, a loss by 12-15 million votes. Even better, a primary candidate tries to out Trump Trump and splinters off the nuttiest third. That would destroy the Repub party for a generation.

The longer Trump retains pull in the party, the more their base ages, dies off, loses economic power, and they make no inroads with younger voters. I hope Trump lives to 100 if he stays out of jail and continues to be the face of the Repubs. That dooms them for decades to being a red state party while the future leaves them far behind.

As maddening as it will be to see him hold rallies and tweet crap, the longer Trump stays in charge of the party the weaker and more isolated it will become. In the long game, more Trump with no power is better for the Dems. A constant reminder to the majority of the country as to why Repubs can never be trusted with the Presidency again.

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:09 AM

25. Impeach him, Article 25 him---fucking do SOMETHING.

How about a vague effort to show history we at least tried to do the right thing to protect our nation.

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Response to RockCreek (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 12:41 AM

45. And then democrats take over the senate and BOOM! No more problem with him running in

2024.

I like it!

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