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Sun Dec 6, 2020, 08:55 PM

Two cheers for the Never Trump conservatives




The shameful complicity of Republican leaders in President Trump’s torrent of deceit about our election tells us there is little hope for a more reasonable post-Trump GOP. But what about conservatism as a philosophy? Is it equally discredited?

Let’s begin by just saying it: The country owes the Never Trump conservatives a debt.

Yes, many progressives have been uneasy with these unusual allies. They insist that Trump was not some alien imposition on conservatism but rather the product of long-standing trends in Republican politics. Trafficking in racial division and racism, nativism, extremism, conspiracy theories and voter suppression did not start with Trump.

Progressives are entirely right about this. But the Never Trumpers deserve our respect precisely because so many of them stood against these tendencies and, in more cases than not, undertook a deeper critique of their own side......

Of course, I’d like the anti-Trump conservatives to admit the error of their ways and fully join my side of politics. But failing that, I still appreciate what they did. And I hope at least they can now champion a brand of conservatism that is about more than making the rich richer and the powerful more powerful.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Two cheers for the Never Trump conservatives (Original post)
Gothmog Dec 2020 OP
Karadeniz Dec 2020 #1
empedocles Dec 2020 #2
scarletwoman Dec 2020 #3
grantcart Dec 2020 #4
Hekate Dec 2020 #5
Cozmo Dec 2020 #6
hydrolastic Dec 2020 #10
CaptainTruth Dec 2020 #7
Mr.Bill Dec 2020 #8
JoeOtterbein Dec 2020 #9
Gothmog Dec 2020 #12
JoeOtterbein Dec 2020 #13
Gothmog Dec 2020 #14
JoeOtterbein Dec 2020 #17
Gothmog Dec 2020 #19
Gothmog Dec 2020 #21
BobTheSubgenius Dec 2020 #11
CatLady78 Dec 2020 #15
CatLady78 Dec 2020 #16
Gothmog Dec 2020 #18
Skittles Dec 2020 #20

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 08:57 PM

1. Yes...too shameful that there aren't more.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 09:24 PM

2. The Never Trumpers were so effective, great; at getting their message across the

media spectrum - big time.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 09:37 PM

3. K&R - I do appreciate the Never Trumpers.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 10:11 PM

4. Agree

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 10:36 PM

5. Thanks, Gothmog. I want to regain a society where I can actually converse with a conservative...

...or at least read with respect what they say. They don’t have to be Dems for that to happen; just ethical human beings.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 10:58 PM

6. No matter what they say, THEY ARE STILL REPUBLICANS!

Scum of the earth

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Response to Cozmo (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:29 AM

10. Party of the rich really

In the 70's after Nixon there was a huge erosion of public programs,unions,and wages dropped. the Republicans were screaming "deficit!" and obstructed any kind of society improvements. I believe for the interest of the rich and not for society. We have never recovered.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:11 PM

7. I appreciate what they did... BUT...

...I see the face of Kristol, one of the original neocons who helped craft the PNAC philosophy that lead straight to a Trump. And I know the history of all of them.

This is like saying someone stole $10,000 from you 20+ years ago & they just recently gave you back $2,000 so you "owe them a debt" for undoing a fraction of the damage they did. No, no you don't. They still owe YOU a debt. They still owe ALL of us a debt, & I sincerely hope that over the next 20+ years they will repay that debt.

Edit to add: What they've done thus far is a good start, but it's only a start. We shouldn't forget that.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:49 PM

8. I hope they start a new conservative party and split the conservative vote with the Trump wing

so we can have Democrats rule for decades.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:59 PM

9. NO WAY!

Not until they support OUR Democratic policies like the Universal Healthcare that we have called for since Roosevelt, and stop supporting endless stupid wars which makes it almost impossible for practical things we need. Like Universal Healthcare.

Don't fall for their anti-Trump BS now.

They will turn on us faster then you can yell "tax cut for us rich boys"!

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Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:38 AM

12. So you wanted trump to re-elected? Why?

The Lincoln Project was very successful in flipping key votes to Biden



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Response to Gothmog (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:40 AM

13. That would be like me asking you if you want Trump...

...reelected in 2024.

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Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 01:03 AM

14. Joe is winning election cases in part because the margins are not close

Defeating a sitting POTUS is very difficult. The Lincoln Project was responsible for a good percentage of Joe’s margin of victory. I am glad that Joe won and I do not understand why you wanted trump to win

Again I applaud the efforts of the Lincoln Project

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 10:27 AM

17. I NEVER wanted *rump to win anything!

Why would you say that I did?

I know those Repubs are in it for themselves. They will show their true colors after Jan. 20.

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Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 02:49 PM

19. I predict that you will be wrong yet again

These Never Trumpers will not have a home in the GOP but can still help as they are in Georgia





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Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 09:28 PM

21. Thank you Lincoln Project

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:38 AM

11. I can understand and even partly agree with both positions here.

Or at least elements thereof. I think the best I can say is..."Better than nothing, over all."

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Response to BobTheSubgenius (Reply #11)


Response to BobTheSubgenius (Reply #11)


Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 02:46 PM

18. Next up for Never Trumpers

The Lincoln Project and the Never Trumpers have no home in the GOP. These professionals can help us down the road https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/07/next-up-nevertrumpers/

The first and essential goal for Never Trumpers — the general description for the loose affiliation of former Republicans and anti-Trump Republicans who worked on behalf of President-elect Joe Biden — was accomplished with the defeat of President Trump. That was the overriding objective for the past four years. Having succeeded, however, Never Trumpers’ work has just begun.

For starters, whether they now identify as independents, as Democrats or as Republicans in exile, Never Trumpers can offer assistance and counsel to Democrats based on their lifetime of experience “on the other side.” During the campaign, that took the form of Lincoln Project and Republican Voters Against Trump ads. That can continue into the 2022 election cycle, as Never Trumpers work to complete the task of eradicating today’s GOP (more about that in a minute) by helping to defeat Trump toadies such as Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.). They can also lend a hand in exposing the abject hypocrisy of Republicans on everything from their treatment of nominees (now Republicans are pearl-clutching over nominees’ tweets or ties to the financial community?) to their investigations of fake scandals.

Never Trumpers can also bring the best of the conservative sensibility to public debate, namely an awareness of the risk of unintended consequences, an appreciation for federalism (as a way of maneuvering around Republican obstructionists in Congress) and a deep appreciation of the necessity of America’s international leadership (in contrast to isolationists on the right and left). At its best, conservatism is not a laundry list of policy positions but a set of preferences — for compromise, for partnership with civil society, for executive branch restraint......

Finally, Never Trumpers should continue the fight against the right-wing populism that has enveloped the GOP — the politics of race-baiting, irrationality and authoritarianism. At the same time, it is time to begin considering what kind of second party alternative to Democrats we need. For believers in the two-party system, a functional second party is very much required. Are the old tenets of conservatism — supply-side tax cuts, “small government” — feasible or is there a model of “radical centrism” that incorporates the best of free markets with support for nimble government action to promote the common good? (The Niskanen Center is among the leading lights in this effort.)

In sum, Trump is leaving, but Trumpism remains an ongoing threat to multiracial democracy. Freed from tribal loyalties, Never Trumpers can prioritize measures that restore and strengthen the foundations, habits and norms of democracy — an undertaking worthy of the aim to “form a more perfect union.”

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2020, 06:54 PM

20. I will give them one cheer

but repukes sucked LONG before Donald Fucking Trump arrived on the scene

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