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steve2470

(37,457 posts)
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 11:16 AM Sep 2021

In 1861, 11 Senators and 3 Representatives were expelled from Congress for failing to recognize...

In 1861, 11 Senators and 3 Representatives were expelled from Congress for failing to recognize the 1860 election of Lincoln and supporting insurrection.




ETA: fact check, my bad

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4107713001

Our rating: Partly False

The claim that 11 senators and three U.S. House members were expelled in 1861 for refusing to acknowledge Lincoln's win is PARTLY FALSE, based on our research. It is true that 14 members were expelled. However, the reason for expulsion cites their support for the Confederacy, and it is false to say they were expelled for refusing to acknowledge Lincoln's election.
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In 1861, 11 Senators and 3 Representatives were expelled from Congress for failing to recognize... (Original Post) steve2470 Sep 2021 OP
Good one empedocles Sep 2021 #1
I wonder... essaynnc Sep 2021 #2
Several southern states had already seceded by March 1861. TheRealNorth Sep 2021 #3
Glad you fact checked it. Now, for the nuance: malthaussen Sep 2021 #4
Wow. This is awesome. And though a long post, it is a really concise summary of the factors. Scrivener7 Sep 2021 #5

essaynnc

(801 posts)
2. I wonder...
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 11:20 AM
Sep 2021

I wonder if this actually fomented the civil war....

I solidly believe that this wouldn't be viewed too kindly by the rabid right.....

TheRealNorth

(9,474 posts)
3. Several southern states had already seceded by March 1861.
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 12:09 PM
Sep 2021

South Carolina in Dec 1860 and much of the lower South by the end of Feb. 1861. So your answer is no, the expulsion was the result of secession and Civil War, not the other way around.

malthaussen

(17,183 posts)
4. Glad you fact checked it. Now, for the nuance:
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 12:35 PM
Sep 2021

One of the reasons the first states seceded from the Union was the election of Abraham Lincoln. This was not, however, because they thought there was anything unusually irregular about his election (minus a few firebrand opportunists who used whatever lies were expedient). Rather, their cited concern was twofold: that the election was unrepresentative of their section (which was true), and that the Republicans would end slavery (which was false, at that time).

The Southern politicians were concerned that the US was growing to a size within which their own special concerns would not be able to dominate the conversation anymore. They were also concerned that, as the US grew and added more States, the number of slaveholding states would drop, again weakening their influence in the Federal government. Those who had the wit to see farther than the next election realized also that, as the US expanded and the influence of their section withered, slavery would gradually die out, which was a conviction shared by many intellectuals at the time. This, they regarded as an undesireable eventuality. If the section were to split and create its own nation, however, then their particular needs would always be attended to in their national government.

Slavery was not the only concern of the Southerners, but it was by far the primary one, since their whole social and economic life rested on the institution. But they were also angry at tariffs and what we would now call infrastructure programs (ie, railroads, canals, levees, etc), the Federal funding of which greatly benefitted the North and especially the Midwest at the expense of the South (in their view). They particularly disliked the Federal land grants which allowed people to purchase cheap land along the lines of prospective railroads, because the Southern section had, proportionally, less land in the public domain to be granted, and less free capital to invest in railroads. (One of the problems with slavery is that capital value is largely fixed; slaves are not a particularly liquid asset) Again, a Federal program which slighted the South and benefitted the Midwest, in the eyes of Southern politicians. Heretofore, it had been the practice to admit Free and Slave states in a strict 1:1 proportion, but the nation was running out of land suitable for slave cultivation, while still holding many territories that would be admitted as Free soil. Hence, the Southerners wanted to annex Mexico and take Cuba from the Spanish, so that the Slave states could increase along with the free, but the Federal government and the Republicans were not in favor of such costly adventures. If the Southern states were a separate nation, though, they could conquer whomever they damn well pleased.

In sum, the South seceded because they believed the US government was no longer fulfilling their needs, and would be less so in the future, and it is difficult to say they were wrong, from their perspective. One should note that there were any number of Northern politicians and pundits who openly wanted to reduce the (disproportionate) power of the South in the Federal government. Many in the North and Midwest were scandalized that a minority section dominated Federal policy, and willfully held up progress on needed legislation. Now, where have we heard that before?

The election of Mr Lincoln was the final straw. The South, at the time, was largely Democratic, but the Democrats had split over just the kind of sectional problems described above. The Southern states went for John Breckinridge, who was nominated by the Southern Democratic party (which had already more-or-less seceded from the Democratic party). Mr Lincoln was elected by a plurality of votes (less than all those of his three opponents, be it noted), and received not a single electoral vote from any Southern state. This was enough to convince the South that the only way they could continue to run things their own way was to leave the Union.

-- Mal

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